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Positive Report on Christian Hackenberg


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I appreciate the rebuttal. I would re-rebut that when your "guy who caught 1,500 yards..." drops crucial, drive killing passes, he's a difference maker, but not in a good way. And when you combine him with FitzChoker, Mr. One Read, with that guy, what did you get? 12 or so wins in two years and ZERO playoff appearances. So, I'm not sure what your point was, or what "der weapons" is supposed to mean, Sgt Schultz.

HOF center: ok, sure. Except that until one is actually IN the HOF one cannot be accurately called a HOF anything. See Joe Klecko. Moreover, there are a lot of components to a great passing game, I think saying that the Center play is a "difference maker" on an OL that mostly sucks is...HORSESH!T. It's not. It wasn't.

As far as the two QBs you named and their seasons, could you maybe support this argument with some flesh. Just mentioning some names really doesn't do it for me. I'd say that Phillip Rivers had plenty of weapons:

Wide receivers

 

Tight ends

Cam Newton had Jericho Cotchery, Tedd Ginn Jr. and others he made into weapons because of his incredibly awesome physical talents. Moreover, we also see that Newton alone can't do it all, if last season is any indication. And, please, since you're so sure about these other plentiful examples, bring 'em on!! Anyway, thanks again for the rebuttal. I think it's skimpy and doesn't disprove my argument by any stretch.

 

 

Thanks. I think we just have to disagree. You put any of those "weapons" from San Diego or carolina on the Geno led jets and they'd be bums. Their QBs elevated them. Also Bmarsh did more that any of those dudes in years in question. Ok to disagree and we just do. Also I will forever be unconvinced by anecdotal evidence about drops from a 1500 yard receiver especially when the QB was 2nd all time jet in yards. Either he was good or receiver were. You can't have that both ways. Up to you to decide which side you prefer.

 

 

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so, Antonio Gates is a bum?! Ted Ginn Jr. is a bum?

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

You put any of those "weapons" from San Diego or carolina on the Geno led jets and they'd be bums.

Wow, opinion stated as fact.

and Double-Wow: Antonio Gates is a bum?!!

Never mind that your original opinion, that these other QBs had no weapons, was proven false. Antonio Gates is a likely HOF player. The other highlighted guys, while not likely in the Hall are certainly better than ANY of the players on the Jets when Geno was the QB.

So, to recap: your opinion is that Geno sucks and to support it, you don't present any facts, you only offer more negative opinions that slight the ability of numerous players, one a likely HOF candidate. Surely you must see how absurd the argument must be if you have to resort to this level of...fantasy.

BTW, nice touch bringing up OJ and Nicole Simpson...

 

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so, Antonio Gates is a bum?! Ted Ginn Jr. is a bum?
Wow, opinion stated as fact.
and Double-Wow: Antonio Gates is a bum?!!
Never mind that your original opinion, that these other QBs had no weapons, was proven false. Antonio Gates is a likely HOF player. The other highlighted guys, while not likely in the Hall are certainly better than ANY of the players on the Jets when Geno was the QB.
So, to recap: your opinion is that Geno sucks and to support it, you don't present any facts, you only offer more negative opinions that slight the ability of numerous players, one a likely HOF candidate. Surely you must see how absurd the argument must be if you have to resort to this level of...fantasy.
BTW, nice touch bringing up OJ and Nicole Simpson...
 

Going to bed will respond tomorrow--goodnight


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14 hours ago, jgb said:

You're right we don't know definitively what Hack is. But we have plenty of evidence. He was hidden on one of the worst teams in football with the worst QB situation in the league even though he was the hand-picked choice of the incumbent GM.

So yeah, I guess we don't have video of OJ slashing Nicole and Ron Goldman, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Not suggesting the team gives up on him--Hell I want them to play him starting week one--only that "hope" is probably going to lead to disappointment (again).

For years on this board we have wanted the Jets to develop a QB and now that the jets refused to throw Hack out there undeveloped we are hiding him?  You cant have it both ways my brother.  The question is, will he develop.  Will be on the Jets coaches and/or him.  Time will tell but he has to have guys that can get open and guys that can block.  We shall see...

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1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

For years on this board we have wanted the Jets to develop a QB and now that the jets refused to throw Hack out there undeveloped we are hiding him?  You cant have it both ways my brother.  The question is, will he develop.  Will be on the Jets coaches and/or him.  Time will tell but he has to have guys that can get open and guys that can block.  We shall see...

Wow...THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

IMO, the biggest issue with the Jets is their lack of developmental ability. Sure, it's easy to say that they can't draft. But I submit the lack of ability to develop players is just as big of an issue, especially at the QB position. We may have the next Discount Doublecheck already on the roster. But if he isn't developed, he becomes just another Kellen Clemmens. So, I'm happy they didn't make him play games last year. Development is a process that shouldn't be abandoned because fans need assurance.

And I realize Jets fans are desperate. But maybe take a staycation from your negativity for a moment and realize that you can't let desperation and frustration color every opinion you have. It's hard to be optimistic but sometimes it's warranted.

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On 7/8/2017 at 1:57 AM, jeremy2020 said:

So a guy wrote an article about a vague situation where a player look improved without pads or a rush with a coach right there reminding him about his mechanics that took place awhile ago and had a bunch of articles written about at the time and this is...news?

Likewise a bunch of articles were written about a "supposed" pass that bounced on the sidelines and hit a reporter -now that's news right ??

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18 hours ago, jgb said:

You're right we don't know definitively what Hack is. But we have plenty of evidence. He was hidden on one of the worst teams in football with the worst QB situation in the league even though he was the hand-picked choice of the incumbent GM.

So yeah, I guess we don't have video of OJ slashing Nicole and Ron Goldman, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Not suggesting the team gives up on him--Hell I want them to play him starting week one--only that "hope" is probably going to lead to disappointment (again).

We have absolutely no evidence.  What we have is what he was in a horrid situation at PSU.  Nothing more. The idea that he was hidden as the 4th QB, getting no practice time etc is just as bad.  Other than to fuel the he must suck, we over drafted him crowd.  

The OJ reference might be the worst ever BTW, one has nothing to do with the other.  Hack could be completely different in 2017, OJ can't bring his wife and Goldman back 

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18 hours ago, jgb said:

You're right we don't know definitively what Hack is. But we have plenty of evidence. He was hidden on one of the worst teams in football with the worst QB situation in the league even though he was the hand-picked choice of the incumbent GM.

So yeah, I guess we don't have video of OJ slashing Nicole and Ron Goldman, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Not suggesting the team gives up on him--Hell I want them to play him starting week one--only that "hope" is probably going to lead to disappointment (again).

+1

Hackenberg will ultimately be what he will be irrespective of whatever he did (or didn't do) at PSU or last year on the Jets. That doesn't therefore equate to a lack of evidence that a positive outcome is unlikely. 

There are many things in our lives that have unlikely outcomes. Sometimes they happen anyway, but that doesn't mean the outcome still wasn't unlikely beforehand.

I think people equate an opinion of unlikely with an opinion of impossible and it's already a done deal. It will be great if Hackenberg pans out. Just as it would have been with Geno before him, Sanchez before Petty, etc.

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On 7/11/2017 at 10:45 PM, Jet Nut said:

This is pure nonsense.  We all know what Fitz is.  You and everyone else whining that Hack is a loser etc don't have a clue, you have no idea what Hack is or isn't.  But the clown section can't keep talking as if they know.

I know! They keep piling into that car and sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and pretending that everything Hack has ever done doesn't make it unlikely that he'll be a starting QB. 

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On 7/8/2017 at 0:36 PM, jgb said:

They have to get him some PT this year. If you hide him another year that's as bad an indictment as him playing and failing.


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I think he has to do more then get some playing time.  This could be the last year of the "Hack" era.  If the Jets get one of the first two picks in this draft, Hack becomes an after thought.  He has to win this job and play well or his days as Heir apparent are over

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On 7/14/2017 at 8:03 AM, flgreen said:

I think he has to do more then get some playing time.  This could be the last year of the "Hack" era.  If the Jets get one of the first two picks in this draft, Hack becomes an after thought.  He has to win this job and play well or his days as Heir apparent are over

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

Hmmmmm that would be frightening if you were correct....

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

I happen to agree with you, but think you're missing something.  Hack could play so poorly in the pre-season, that the "hiding" won't work.

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14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

 

If McCown opens the season as the starter, sadly, what other conclusion can we come to here? If Hack cant beat out McCown, a QB so bad that he would probably be out of football if the Jets didn't sign him, then Mac has to be judged for not only making a horrific 2nd round pick, but also for failing to draft a QB in this year's draft.  He compound a terrible mistake with another terrible mistake and isn't being held accountable for either.  I want my next job to be GM of the Jets, because performance clearly isn't the deciding factor on job security.

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20 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmm that would be frightening if you were correct....

It's happened once or twice ;)

19 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I happen to agree with you, but think you're missing something.  Hack could play so poorly in the pre-season, that the "hiding" won't work.

Good point although they could always limit the playcalling to disguise the level of suck somewhat.

3 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

 

If McCown opens the season as the starter, sadly, what other conclusion can we come to here? If Hack cant beat out McCown, a QB so bad that he would probably be out of football if the Jets didn't sign him, then Mac has to be judged for not only making a horrific 2nd round pick, but also for failing to draft a QB in this year's draft.  He compound a terrible mistake with another terrible mistake and isn't being held accountable for either.  I want my next job to be GM of the Jets, because performance clearly isn't the deciding factor on job security.

Can't beat out McCown with EVERY tiebreaker and built-in advantage tilting toward him. It would be losing a rigged competition... that was rigged FOR HIM!

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Just now, jgb said:

It's happened once or twice ;)

Good point although they could always limit the playcalling to disguise the level of suck somewhat.

Can't beat out McCown with EVERY tiebreaker and built-in advantage tilting toward him. It would be losing a rigged competition... that was rigged FOR HIM!

the way the jets run these 'competitions' they're rigged for the veterans.

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6 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

He compound a terrible mistake with another terrible mistake and isn't being held accountable for either. 

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, Mac didn't love any of this years QB's enough to pass on one of next years QB's? Yeah, I know, I know, everyone wants to draft a 1st round QB every year until one happens to be Peyton Manning in his prime on day one of camp, but the real world doesn't really work like that..... 

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On 7/13/2017 at 8:03 PM, flgreen said:

I think he has to do more then get some playing time.  This could be the last year of the "Hack" era.  If the Jets get one of the first two picks in this draft, Hack becomes an after thought.  He has to win this job and play well or his days as Heir apparent are over

He'll get plenty of playing time. Nov at the latest IMO.  

Hate to break it to people but IF IF a QB is drafted in '18, Hack will be further along and more NFL ready than any QB drafted going into '18 season  

Just drafting a QB in '18 doesn't mean that guy will step on a NFL field in '18 and all problems are solved. 

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1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, Mac didn't love any of this years QB's enough to pass on one of next years QB's? Yeah, I know, I know, everyone wants to draft a 1st round QB every year until one happens to be Peyton Manning in his prime on day one of camp, but the real world doesn't really work like that..... 

If Mac has written off Hackenberg, then he was truly negligent in his duties to the organization by not trying to upgrade the most important position on the field via the draft.  Surely just about ANYONE he drafted at QB would be closer to starting NFL games over Hackenberg, but instead we sign one of the worst QB's in the league over the last few years.  Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

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26 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

That would certainly be the logical way to do it.  That isn't what has been happening .  Since the beginning of OTA's McCown has worked with the 1st team exclusively.  This is much like naming Fitz starter while he was a FA.  No one else has gotten reps with the 1's.  Of course McCown is going to be ahead, he has played in a complicated WCO a few times in his career.  Neither Petty, or Hack even know the language.  IMO Bowles never had any intention of starting the young guys.  

IMO there is a divide between the intentions on the FO and Bowles "win now" logic.  The most odd indication of this was when Harris and Decker were cut, and there was a 45 min. delay before there was a presser about it.  Bowles came out and basically said he didn't have a clue it was going to happen at that point.  Not great communication between Macc and Bowles on a major issue.

Think Bowles is still in a "He gives us the best chance to win" state of mind, and the FO is in a total rebuild mind set.  

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3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Just drafting a QB in '18 doesn't mean that guy will step on a NFL field in '18 and all problems are solved. 

If the Jets draft a QB with a top 3 pick in 2018, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will be the day one starter.

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2 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If the Jets draft a QB with a top 3 pick in 2018, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will be the day one starter.

Rams didn't. And starting a QB day 1 doesn't mean it's right way to develop a QB, especially in NY w/this fanbase. 

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NOTHING suggests Mac has last confidence in Hack or does not see him as the guy.

Bowles actions however in the "competition" so far, show that Bowles is as stubborn and stupid as ever and he is all but handing the job to McClown as he is getting the most reps and ALL the 1st team reps, which is flat idiotic. Not only does it not give Hack a chance to develop and build chemistry with the starters it also makes it more difficult to emerge as the better QB, when you are playing with mediocre talent. Bowles is an idiot poised to throw another entire season away on a journeyman loser QB, that has "charisma". Eric Allen in the little Green White scrimmage preview, was acting like McClown was a foregone conclusion and he was using exactly the same nonsense rhetoric that was used for Fitzloser.

 

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1 minute ago, C Mart said:

Rams didn't. And starting a QB day 1 doesn't mean it's right way to develop a QB, especially in NY w/this fanbase. 

I think the Rams made a terrible pick, and starting a QB day one might not be the best way to develop a QB, but the success rate of the strategy over the last few years has been good enough the the trend will continue in the NFL IMO.

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7 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

Think Bowles is still in a "He gives us the best chance to win" state of mind, and the FO is in a total rebuild mind set.  

True, which is the worst possible scenario for this team. The likely outcome of this season if Bowles is Bowles is we squeak out 4 or 5 victories, pick 6ish again, fire Bowles and Mac and start over with not knowing what we have in Hack and not having a high enough pick to get one of the QBs

So jetsy. Of course, we will have another defensive HC allergic to offense and young players for a rebuilding team

 

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On 7/8/2017 at 0:59 AM, Mogglez said:

If Hackenberg left PSU after the hammer dropped like he was allowed to do, I'm thoroughly convinced his whole career is different.  Say what you want about him but the kid deserves all the credit in the world for sticking by that school.

I understand the whole sad situation, but while we are throwing olive branches at him, why did he leave a year early when they were getting bowl eligibility, more scholarships and a new OC?  

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59 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly although this is a rare year where the "winner" of the "competition" should not start: throw Hack in there imho.

I'm a cynic so I believe the problem is Hack is so rancid that Mac has determined him playing would be a personal embarassment and put his GM job in jeopardy. Think about how badly he must suck if I'm right: admitting failure and hiding him better than rolling him out there and confirming it.

that's certainly possible, but there are numerous other possible scenarios that are every bit as likely.  

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28 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If Mac has written off Hackenberg, then he was truly negligent in his duties to the organization by not trying to upgrade the most important position on the field via the draft.  Surely just about ANYONE he drafted at QB would be closer to starting NFL games over Hackenberg, but instead we sign one of the worst QB's in the league over the last few years.  Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me to pick another QB who you don't believe to be a quality starting QB either...... Just becasue you draft one high, doesn't mean he will be good. At some point you can either scout and develop, or you can't.

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25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I understand the whole sad situation, but while we are throwing olive branches at him, why did he leave a year early when they were getting bowl eligibility, more scholarships and a new OC?  

Recruiting cycles take 2-3 years to bear fruit of their labor. Hackenberg was not going to be the beneficiary of that.

O'Brien ignored the o-line ( I get it). Hack's Junior year, the starting O-line  was 2 converted D-linemen. And that was before injuries hit.

Hiring Moorhead was a whole change in offensive direction for Franklin. Really, the ultimate hire of O-line coach Limegrover was just a crucial. That was a Moorhead contact.

Was Hack a total victim at PSU? Of course not. But, he was miscast in a system that did not fit him, nor was it helped by situation. he had flashes of brilliance, and moments of dubious decisions. The Jets gambled on his flashes of brilliance, I suppose.

Hackenberg declared himself eligible for the draft immediately after a Bowl game where he was injured. As much as I liked his talent, I knew it was the right decision for him at that time. His PSU career had run its course, and he was not guaranteed a fit with any new o-coordinator.

What really made PSU work last year was the maturation of Barkley, who will be a top 5 pick next year. the ability to work play action with Barkley, and have qb able to run/pass option with Mcsorley made things work. Hack could not have give the PSU that. The o-line just started too come together last year.

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I've wondered lately, if you took Hack's TC reports/news and slapped them on say Patrick Mahomes, do you think most Chiefs fans would be fairly upbeat? I do.

But since Hack was soooo far away last year, and had the negative reports last year, I think people dismiss any positive steps he may make. He's certainly not a finish product, may never be, but there are at least some items that give a slight reason for optimism.

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8 hours ago, flgreen said:

That would certainly be the logical way to do it.  That isn't what has been happening .  Since the beginning of OTA's McCown has worked with the 1st team exclusively.  This is much like naming Fitz starter while he was a FA.  No one else has gotten reps with the 1's.  Of course McCown is going to be ahead, he has played in a complicated WCO a few times in his career.  Neither Petty, or Hack even know the language.  IMO Bowles never had any intention of starting the young guys.  

IMO there is a divide between the intentions on the FO and Bowles "win now" logic.  The most odd indication of this was when Harris and Decker were cut, and there was a 45 min. delay before there was a presser about it.  Bowles came out and basically said he didn't have a clue it was going to happen at that point.  Not great communication between Macc and Bowles on a major issue.

Think Bowles is still in a "He gives us the best chance to win" state of mind, and the FO is in a total rebuild mind set.  

i think you may be right but if hack is supposed to be the guy he needs to work with the first team more.  if mccown is supposed to be so good and has been everywhere then he really should need much first team practice.

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