p lynch

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, slats said:

2008 was one of the worst drafts in team history. They hit on four picks in 2006 (two first rounders) and hit on 2/4 picks in 2007 (their first and second rounders). This was not some genius level drafting. And again, if Mangini has this amazing hidden ability, why does he constantly find himself out of the league? This is the most overstated thing on this site, and it's nonsense. 

+1

What's worse is it's not one of those times we drafted bad players but you look back and there was no one else good anyway. Not by a long shot, starting with St. Louis offering us Matt Ryan on a silver platter. That would have erased picking up Favre, saved Favre's $13m salary and a 3rd rounder in '09, and would have erased using that '09 1st plus our '09 2nd for Sanchez and his $10m/yr.

Non-cherry pick re-draft is trade up for Ryan, draft Jordy Nelson at our original pick instead of trading up for Keller. Then cherry-pick a little by moving those two 4th rounders to move up for Cliff Avril if we wanted an edge rusher that badly. #102 and #113 easily gets to that spot, since Detroit traded up there for less, moving #111 and the following year's 4th rounder. There was even some good talent late (Garcon being the best by far, but also Rubin, Hillis, Stevie Johnson, and Forsett) or they could have just traded those picks away.

I can't really get on them for trading for Kris Jenkins, since he changed the whole defense overnight. Does hurt that those picks could have been Jamal Charles and Gary Barnidge (or Carl Nicks if they wanted to go back to the OL again).

Could have been one of the franchise's best ever drafts, if the Mangini-Tannenbaum team was so clairvoyant in team-building, instead of ending up as one of its worst.

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1

What's worse is it's not one of those times we drafted bad players but you look back and there was no one else good anyway. Not by a long shot, starting with St. Louis offering us Matt Ryan on a silver platter. That would have erased picking up Favre, saved Favre's $13m salary and a 3rd rounder in '09, and would have erased using that '09 1st plus our '09 2nd for Sanchez and his $10m/yr.

Non-cherry pick re-draft is trade up for Ryan, draft Jordy Nelson at our original pick instead of trading up for Keller. Then cherry-pick a little by moving those two 4th rounders to move up for Cliff Avril if we wanted an edge rusher that badly. #102 and #113 easily gets to that spot, since Detroit traded up there for less, moving #111 and the following year's 4th rounder. There was even some good talent late (Garcon being the best by far, but also Rubin, Hillis, Stevie Johnson, and Forsett) or they could have just traded those picks away.

I can't really get on them for trading for Kris Jenkins, since he changed the whole defense overnight. Does hurt that those picks could have been Jamal Charles and Gary Barnidge (or Carl Nicks if they wanted to go back to the OL again).

Could have been one of the franchise's best ever drafts, if the Mangini-Tannenbaum team was so clairvoyant in team-building, instead of ending up as one of its worst.

So, you're faulting the Mangini and Tannenbaum for not trading multiple first round picks to move up for Matt Ryan, then for not drafting a pasty caucasian KState wide receiver in Jordy Nelson? Harsh. Obviously Gholston was a massive whiff, but nearly everyone in that first round was a massive whiff. Even Ryan was (and remains) dubious. If you wanted to play the re-draft game, the pick should have been Clady. 

[T0mShane]

There are five key positions in football: QB, Edge Rusher, CB1, OLT, and C. The Mangini Jets, in two years, found three of those guys who all made All-Rookie and split 17 Pro Bowls and 6 First Team All Pros. The edge they drafted sucked, and the QB they took a shot on has had a ten year career as a backup. I understand that there's some weird Mangini-hate because he didn't bench Favre (I guess?), but literally any GM would sign up for that three year stretch, especially considering how sh*tty the 08 draft class ended up.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There are five key positions in football: QB, Edge Rusher, CB1, OLT, and C. The Mangini Jets, in two years, found three of those guys who all made All-Rookie and split 17 Pro Bowls and 6 First Team All Pros. The edge they drafted sucked, and the QB they took a shot on has had a ten year career as a backup. I understand that there's some weird Mangini-hate because he didn't bench Favre (I guess?), but literally any GM would sign up for that three year stretch, especially considering how sh*tty the 08 draft class ended up.

I'm just gonna throw center in there to help bolster my point...

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

I'm just gonna throw center in there to help bolster my point...

Can't believe you'd put the effort into using italics for a sh*tpost like this.

[CanadaSteve]

10 hours ago, thadude said:

According to Canadasteve we need another 15 drafts to evaluate Macagnan as a GM

Yeah, that is exactly what I say all the time

Why don't we talk about the next GM you want after the next GM is fired by you, in say one year this time?  Let's start giving GM's one year now to get a Super Bowl for this team.  The best ones will be LINING up at the door knowing there is such a great opportunity here.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

There are five key positions in football: QB, Edge Rusher, CB1, OLT, and C. The Mangini Jets, in two years, found three of those guys who all made All-Rookie and split 17 Pro Bowls and 6 First Team All Pros. The edge they drafted sucked, and the QB they took a shot on has had a ten year career as a backup. I understand that there's some weird Mangini-hate because he didn't bench Favre (I guess?), but literally any GM would sign up for that three year stretch, especially considering how sh*tty the 08 draft class ended up.

The hate Mangini gets is strange to me.  Yeah he drafted Gholson.  So would most of the teams in that position.  He and Tannenbaum put some good drafts together. 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Guess waiting 3 years to judge a draft equates to needing 15 draft to evaluate a GM.  Does anything you post make sense?  Ever?

No....

[CanadaSteve]

11 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Why is it we are talking like this?

The roster sucks.  Does it not?  

Nobody said they were the worst possible picks, but he has emphasized positions that don't need emphasis and his choices at QB and EDGE have looked pretty poor.  CB is up in the air, but the lack of playing time given Burris does not look good.  If one of the 3 CBs he drafted is a legit starter I will look at him much more kindly.  If we have 3 dimebacks?  No thanks. 

It is really hard to have a different take on Mac this season.  I would LOVE to go back and see how many people were drinking the Koolaid after season 1

I have said in numerous posts if he gets another year....emphasis IF, and he misses the QB boat again, there will not be a season 5 for Mac.  How about we leave it at that.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

The hate Mangini gets is strange to me.  Yeah he drafted Gholson.  So would most of the teams in that position.  He and Tannenbaum put some good drafts together. 

My theory is that giving Mangini any credit at all somehow diminishes Rex's legendary two seasons of competence, and therefore it's crucial to strike from the record the fact that Rex inherited a 9-7 team with high-level young starters at some of the most critical positions in the sport. The three people whom Jets fans seem to hate the most are Idzik, Mangini, and Parcells, while Herm and Rex are somehow forgiven for their cartoonish bungling of the franchise. Imo, it's because Herm and Rex prostrated themselves before the fan base and begged for approval at every turn. People like that sh*t.

[slats]

40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My theory is that giving Mangini any credit at all somehow diminishes Rex's legendary two seasons of competence, and therefore it's crucial to strike from the record the fact that Rex inherited a 9-7 team with high-level young starters at some of the most critical positions in the sport. The three people whom Jets fans seem to hate the most are Idzik, Mangini, and Parcells, while Herm and Rex are somehow forgiven for their cartoonish bungling of the franchise. Imo, it's because Herm and Rex prostrated themselves before the fan base and begged for approval at every turn. People like that sh*t.

Don't see much Parcells hate. That's just your perception of anyone who doesn't have a shrine to him in their living room. 

Idzik hate is self-explanatory. 

Mangini isn't hated enough. They were ineffective and boring as a football team before they sold out for Favre. His last two years, the team was 5-16 without a healthy Brett Favre in the lineup. That's what Rex inherited, not some 9-7 powerhouse. Mangini flat out sucked and people wanna hold some sorta candle for him like he's the one who got away. If he had a fraction of the talent attributed to him, he'd be working somewhere right now. It's no conspiracy theory, the guy isn't very good. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

It is really hard to have a different take on Mac this season.  I would LOVE to go back and see how many people were drinking the Koolaid after season 1

I have said in numerous posts if he gets another year....emphasis IF, and he misses the QB boat again, there will not be a season 5 for Mac.  How about we leave it at that.

I was okay with him after year 1.  I wasn't super impressed, most of those moves basically wiped out the whole starting over campaign, but I understand wanted to get the stench of Idzik off the team.  It was going into camp year 2 that I got pissed.  QB situation completely mishandled, LT mishandled, RB position mishandled IMO, edge rusher not addressed,  

I understand where you are coming from, but are you willing to give this guy a shot at getting a QB by having the worst team in the NFL and a ton of money?  I am not in favor of any form of tank.  This team had better perform.  If they win 0-2 games and scapegoat Bowles, but let Maccagnan make the #1 overall pick?  I will not be happy, and as Rutgers says, I will write a post to express my displeasure.

[CanadaSteve]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I was okay with him after year 1.  I wasn't super impressed, most of those moves basically wiped out the whole starting over campaign, but I understand wanted to get the stench of Idzik off the team.  It was going into camp year 2 that I got pissed.  QB situation completely mishandled, LT mishandled, RB position mishandled IMO, edge rusher not addressed,  

I understand where you are coming from, but are you willing to give this guy a shot at getting a QB by having the worst team in the NFL and a ton of money?  I am not in favor of any form of tank.  This team had better perform.  If they win 0-2 games and scapegoat Bowles, but let Maccagnan make the #1 overall pick?  I will not be happy, and as Rutgers says, I will write a post to express my displeasure.

We might very well wipe the slate clean for another year.  But that will mean we will be on our 5th GM in 12 years.  NOBODY of any quality is going to come here if we keep changing executives like that.  Hell, Pittsburgh has only had 7 guys in 80 years, and it will be one more than Dallas has had in over 50 years. If you look at all the top franchises in the NFL, they all have stability in the front office, and they all have a star QB.  We have had neither of those forever.  I personally would like to see what Mac could do with a total rebuild.  The  guy has football smarts.  You don't get to spend your entire working career in the NFL and hold the positions he has held without some skill.

If everyone wants to ditch the guy, then fine.  But we eventually have to pick a GM and stay with that GM for 5-7 years, or we REALLY are not going to go anywhere as a franchise. Picking the next GM only to can his ass in 2-3 years is all but going to assure about another decade or so of suffering for this franchise. 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

So, you're faulting the Mangini and Tannenbaum for not trading multiple first round picks to move up for Matt Ryan, then for not drafting a pasty caucasian KState wide receiver in Jordy Nelson? Harsh. Obviously Gholston was a massive whiff, but nearly everyone in that first round was a massive whiff. Even Ryan was (and remains) dubious. If you wanted to play the re-draft game, the pick should have been Clady. 

Beyond addressing your racial issues, lol:

- They would not have been trading multiple first round picks to move up 4 slots for Matt Ryan. They'd have been trading one first round pick for the move up, at a time the team was so desperate for a QB change they then traded to get Brett Favre in freaking August. Even after winning that final game in '07 (thanks, Mangini) they were still damn lucky to be in a position to get Ryan anyway.

- Clady? With the benefit of hindsight, only a great fool would re-draft for a player that had no place to start as a rookie (and perhaps not even in year 2). They already had Ferguson entering his 3rd season, playing under his rookie contract that had him locked up through the 2011 season without even tagging/extending him. Also they already had Mangold and Moore entrenched as above-average starters. In March they'd just signed Alan Faneca at $8m/yr and Damien Woody at $5m/yr. Exactly what purpose would there be in drafting a LT prospect? That is Maccagnan logic, to draft a redundant player at #6 overall at a position the team already has filled more than adequately. The delta between Clady and the players they already had would have netted a very small team improvement compared to filling an actual hole.

- Nowhere close to "nearly everyone" in that first round was a massive whiff. Easily most of them became starters for at least 4-5 years or were good enough to start but split time due to other talent on their teams (e.g. Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones). Just over 1/3 of them became pro bowlers. Even among the whiffs, none were nearly on Gholston's level.

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

We might very well wipe the slate clean for another year.  But that will mean we will be on our 5th GM in 12 years.  NOBODY of any quality is going to come here if we keep changing executives like that.  Hell, Pittsburgh has only had 7 guys in 80 years, and it will be one more than Dallas has had in over 50 years. If you look at all the top franchises in the NFL, they all have stability in the front office, and they all have a star QB.  We have had neither of those forever.  I personally would like to see what Mac could do with a total rebuild.  The  guy has football smarts.  You don't get to spend your entire working career in the NFL and hold the positions he has held without some skill.

If everyone wants to ditch the guy, then fine.  But we eventually have to pick a GM and stay with that GM for 5-7 years, or we REALLY are not going to go anywhere as a franchise. Picking the next GM only to can his ass in 2-3 years is all but going to assure about another decade or so of suffering for this franchise. 

I am not saying that we have to ditch him.  I am saying that if the players we have now are bad enough that this whole season is an epic tank job?  He has to go.  You do not keep people that get you to worst team in football level around just to promote stability.  

[Bleedin Green]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My theory is that giving Mangini any credit at all somehow diminishes Rex's legendary two seasons of competence, and therefore it's crucial to strike from the record the fact that Rex inherited a 9-7 team with high-level young starters at some of the most critical positions in the sport. The three people whom Jets fans seem to hate the most are Idzik, Mangini, and Parcells, while Herm and Rex are somehow forgiven for their cartoonish bungling of the franchise. Imo, it's because Herm and Rex prostrated themselves before the fan base and begged for approval at every turn. People like that sh*t.

So you're suggesting that Mangini deserves all of the credit, including for things that weren't his job and there's no evidence to suggest was actually his doing, and yet none of the blame?  Kind of proves my whole point at the start of this.  Especially given that his fake GM'ing was something that didn't come up until years later, when people decided that, because Tanny did a whole lot of stupid sh*t, he was no longer allowed to be given any credit for anything that went well.

[varjet]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am not saying that we have to ditch him.  I am saying that if the players we have now are bad enough that this whole season is an epic tank job?  He has to go.  You do not keep people that get you to worst team in football level around just to promote stability.  

I think the Jets model of hiring first time GMs and coaches and having them report, actually (now) or functionally (before) to Woody or his brother is not working.  They need to spend more money and build a deeper smarter team of executives to run the team, like the Jaguars did.  

Bowles wants players he or his coaches think can help right away.  Macc wants players that he had his scouts have graded the hghest and have the least chance of busting.  Someone needs to build a team.

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

I think the Jets model of hiring first time GMs and coaches and having them report, actually (now) or functionally (before) to Woody or his brother is not working.  They need to spend more money and build a deeper smarter team of executives to run the team, like the Jaguars did.  

Bowles wants players he or his coaches think can help right away.  Macc wants players that he had his scouts have graded the hghest and have the least chance of busting.  Someone needs to build a team.

Sure.

I have been in agreement with this all along.  Somebody has to be the boss.  I was a full on Rex Ryan guy, but forcing a new GM to keep him was a huge mistake and I said it at the time.  The most that you do is force the new GM to interview him and his assistants as candidates.  There are some coaches who can wield power with a figurehead/contract GM.  Rex is not that guy.

[thadude]

On July 18, 2017 at 8:11 AM, CanadaSteve said:

Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin, Deon Simon....All good picks 

There goes whatever credibility u might have still had

[thadude]

5 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you're suggesting that Mangini deserves all of the credit, including for things that weren't his job and there's no evidence to suggest was actually his doing, and yet none of the blame?  Kind of proves my whole point at the start of this.  Especially given that his fake GM'ing was something that didn't come up until years later, when people decided that, because Tanny did a whole lot of stupid sh*t, he was no longer allowed to be given any credit for anything that went well.

Why isn't Herm Edwards getting credit for drafting Kerry Rhodes and Vilma?  Mangini went 10-6 his first season with Herm's players

[thadude]

On July 18, 2017 at 4:25 PM, #27TheDominator said:

Lorenzo Mauldin is a plus pick now?  GTFO.  I mean, I like his story and he isn't a total zero, but that pick was not a hit.  I am not going to blow the guy up for picking Smith or Mauldin, but those are not "good picks".  

 

Lol

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you're suggesting that Mangini deserves all of the credit, including for things that weren't his job and there's no evidence to suggest was actually his doing, and yet none of the blame?  Kind of proves my whole point at the start of this.  Especially given that his fake GM'ing was something that didn't come up until years later, when people decided that, because Tanny did a whole lot of stupid sh*t, he was no longer allowed to be given any credit for anything that went well.

If you'd like to know the role coaches played in the draft process during Mike Tannenbaum's generally awful tenure here, Collision Low Crossers is an exceptional resource for that. 

[T0mShane]

17 hours ago, slats said:

Don't see much Parcells hate. That's just your perception of anyone who doesn't have a shrine to him in their living room. 

Idzik hate is self-explanatory. 

Mangini isn't hated enough. They were ineffective and boring as a football team before they sold out for Favre. His last two years, the team was 5-16 without a healthy Brett Favre in the lineup. That's what Rex inherited, not some 9-7 powerhouse. Mangini flat out sucked and people wanna hold some sorta candle for him like he's the one who got away. If he had a fraction of the talent attributed to him, he'd be working somewhere right now. It's no conspiracy theory, the guy isn't very good. 

Perhaps if we all had shrines dedicated to Bill Parcells, he'd still be here to save us. @#27TheDominator

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Perhaps if we all had shrines dedicated to Bill Parcells, he'd still be here to save us. @#27TheDominator

But, oh how ugly our homes would be.  

Imagine on of those on the halfshell on our front lawns.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

But, oh how ugly our homes would be.  

Imagine on of those on the halfshell on our front lawns.

With Christmas lights strung over the top of it! 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

With Christmas lights strung over the top of it! 

I'm from the border of Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights.  Of course there will be Christmas lights!

[JustInFudge]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My theory is that giving Mangini any credit at all somehow diminishes Rex's legendary two seasons of competence, and therefore it's crucial to strike from the record the fact that Rex inherited a 9-7 team with high-level young starters at some of the most critical positions in the sport. The three people whom Jets fans seem to hate the most are Idzik, Mangini, and Parcells, while Herm and Rex are somehow forgiven for their cartoonish bungling of the franchise. Imo, it's because Herm and Rex prostrated themselves before the fan base and begged for approval at every turn. People like that sh*t.

Or maybe it's because during most of our Jets fandom, Herm and Rex were the most successful Head Coaches?  Typically people like success and stuff.  This passion Jets fan have for crediting this person for that persons success while ostracizing another for the same sh*t as the other is a bizarre phenomenon that I've really never seen any where else.  The differences between these characters are minuscule but people like you act like they were worlds apart.  They werent.

Mangini sucked.  He was a terrible Head Coach in the mold of Todd Bowles, who tries to fit round pegs in square holes.  He left Rex Ryan with an OL and Darrelle Revis who was just a good player till Rex Ryan created Revis Island.  There wasnt a single significant player on the roster otherwise, unless you really think David Harris played a critical position and was anything more than average.  Acting like Rex Ryan inherited this loaded roster is the biggest lie Jets fan tell themselves.  Mangini went 9-7 with a HOF QB.  Rex Ryan went 9-7 with the worst QB in the league.  

Parcells was a part time lover who left the franchise in shambles.  Part time lovers run hot and cold.  You're all hot and bothered when they're around but you want to rip their guts out when they're gone.  

Idzick?  You're just a strange dude when it comes to him.  He was legit one of the worst GM's in the history of sports.

Herm and Rex were likable guys who seemingly wanted to be here and won.  Herm went to the playoff 3 times.  Rex won the most playoff games in the history of the franchise. Sure, they were bozo's but who gives a ****?   Better than being stiffs like Mangini and Idzick and the difference between all of these guys as it pertains to the Jets, is nothing. Literally, nothing.  Maybe it makes for a good debate to act like there's more to it, but there really isnt.  Everyone of these ****ers sucked for many different reasons and neither had anything do with the other. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Herm and Rex were likable guys who seemingly wanted to be here

Really, you could have just typed this, which is fine, but worthless. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm from the border of Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights.  Of course there will be Christmas lights!

A-O!!!!! Bay Ridge here!

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Or maybe it's because during most of our Jets fandom, Herm and Rex were the most successful Head Coaches?  Typically people like success and stuff.  This passion Jets fan have for crediting this person for that persons success while ostracizing another for the same sh*t as the other is a bizarre phenomenon that I've really never seen any where else.  The differences between these characters are minuscule but people like you act like they were worlds apart.  They werent.

Mangini sucked.  He was a terrible Head Coach in the mold of Todd Bowles, who tries to fit round pegs in square holes.  He left Rex Ryan with an OL and Darrelle Revis who was just a good player till Rex Ryan created Revis Island.  There wasnt a single significant player on the roster otherwise, unless you really think David Harris played a critical position and was anything more than average.  Acting like Rex Ryan inherited this loaded roster is the biggest lie Jets fan tell themselves.  Mangini went 9-7 with a HOF QB.  Rex Ryan went 9-7 with the worst QB in the league.  

Parcells was a part time lover who left the franchise in shambles.  Part time lovers run hot and cold.  You're all hot and bothered when they're around but you want to rip their guts out when they're gone.  

Idzick?  You're just a strange dude when it comes to him.  He was legit one of the worst GM's in the history of sports.

Herm and Rex were likable guys who seemingly wanted to be here and won.  Herm went to the playoff 3 times.  Rex won the most playoff games in the history of the franchise. Sure, they were bozo's but who gives a ****?   Better than being stiffs like Mangini and Idzick and the difference between all of these guys as it pertains to the Jets, is nothing. Literally, nothing.  Maybe it makes for a good debate to act like there's more to it, but there really isnt.  Everyone of these ****ers sucked for many different reasons and neither had anything do with the other. 

Alright, here's where I'll meet you on this: there are some extreme internal roadblocks to working for the Jets organization, clearly, as evidenced by the repeated mistakes of each new coach and GM they bring in. There's something poisoning the well, and it may be Woody, or it may be bigger than Woody--who knows? The guy who's going to break through and provide some semblance of order isn't going to be an idiot like Rex or Herm was--it's going to be a smart, cutthroat, savvy dude who can see the future. A Dave Checketts, if you will. I think Mangini was smart. I think Idzik was smart. I thought they both had a vision for the franchise, and I think they were both undercut in their time here and fired too soon. I get that nobody likes either of them, but--as you said--much of that is because they weren't "nice guys who wanted to be here." 

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Really, you could have just typed this, which is fine, but worthless. 

More like the success coupled with their personality, but agendas are fun too.  

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Alright, here's where I'll meet you on this: there are some extreme internal roadblocks to working for the Jets organization, clearly, as evidenced by the repeated mistakes of each new coach and GM they bring in. There's something poisoning the well, and it may be Woody, or it may be bigger than Woody--who knows? The guy who's going to break through and provide some semblance of order isn't going to be an idiot like Rex or Herm was--it's going to be a smart, cutthroat, savvy dude who can see the future. A Dave Checketts, if you will. I think Mangini was smart. I think Idzik was smart. I thought they both had a vision for the franchise, and I think they were both undercut in their time here and fired too soon. I get that nobody likes either of them, but--as you said--much of that is because they weren't "nice guys who wanted to be here." 

Nobody would care they were dickwads if they won.

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

More like the success coupled with their personality, but agendas are fun too.  

Success? Please. They were both morons who benefited from an adult setting the table for them. They both went to their next job and absolutely destroyed the teams they were tasked with building themselves and both will be terrible pre-game analysts for the rest of their natural lives. Rex is a pariah. Billick hated him, Harbaugh hated him, and everyone who wears a tie for the Jets and Bills hates him, too. He was at the point of begging owners for interviews three years ago. Nobody but a few Jets fans think Rex is a "winner." They think he's a back-biting loudmouth clownshoe A-hole who got three GMs fired in the span of five years.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nobody would care they were dickwads if they won.

Everyone likes the substitute teacher.

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Alright, here's where I'll meet you on this: there are some extreme internal roadblocks to working for the Jets organization, clearly, as evidenced by the repeated mistakes of each new coach and GM they bring in. There's something poisoning the well, and it may be Woody, or it may be bigger than Woody--who knows? The guy who's going to break through and provide some semblance of order isn't going to be an idiot like Rex or Herm was--it's going to be a smart, cutthroat, savvy dude who can see the future. A Dave Checketts, if you will. I think Mangini was smart. I think Idzik was smart. I thought they both had a vision for the franchise, and I think they were both undercut in their time here and fired too soon. I get that nobody likes either of them, but--as you said--much of that is because they weren't "nice guys who wanted to be here." 

You like to quote Collision Low Crossers for Rex.  Perhaps you should read some of the stuff on Mangini.  It is obvious that he has no idea how to interact with players as adults and was just trying adapt some of Belichick's insanity.  When I read that sh*t in the borderline TE's book, I knew exactly what he was.  I've played for coaches like that and spent most of my time rolling my eyes and looking at the ground.