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kelly

idzik.. just how bad was he at drafting players ? ? ?

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Market price does not mean "overpay."  Could he have signed any free agents under 30?  How are any of these guys long-term solutions?  Revis, Harris, Forte, Marshall, Fitzpatrick, or Clady?  Even the lower level guys he signed were fairly old - Erin Henderson, McClendon, Kellen Davis.  What problem did these players solve? Who the **** did he sign under 30?  Skrine, Gilchrist and Carpenter?

This is running a team, not taking a trig mid-term.  It didn't "work" in 2015.  Yay! Hurray, we got an 85, but we were in a worse position for 2016, and we are in horrific position for 2017. No QB, no LT, no edge rusher, and sketchy at WR. Our CB1 has missed at least 1/4 season since 2012, but he is a FA in 2018 anyway. Where are the long term solutions?  Safety, DE and ILB?  We were stacked at DE when they got here.  

again, the plan was to sign those guys for the short term while building through the draft.  

 

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48 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

not one contract was a bad one. 

holy ******* hell

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4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

holy ******* hell

which one kept us from signing another talented player? which one put us in cap hell?  all the contracts were structured w/ easy outs after a year or 2.  

have you guys watched football in the salary cap era?

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7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

again, the plan was to sign those guys for the short term while building through the draft.  

 

Ah.  We are there.  You  have said it.  The plan was to pay a ton of money for older vets "for the short term" while building through the draft.  That is a sh*tty plan.  Wouldn't a better plan be to utilize every method at your fingertips to obtain players that will be the building blocks of your team for years to come?  

I believe that there are 2 guys that he signed during his extravaganza still on the team.  One is only there because of all the dead money and the utter failure to find any other borderline starting CB.  Add Forte to the list of guys we wished were gone while we still have to pay them starting salaries.

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Just now, nyjunc said:

which one kept us from signing another talented player? which one put us in cap hell?  all the contracts were structured w/ easy outs after a year or 2.  

have you guys watched football in the salary cap era?

Have you?  The guy inherited a blank slate.  In two years he maxed out his credit cards and is paying the 2nd most dead money.  In case you need a lesson in efficiency, dead money is bad.  sh*t, his spending was so bad that despite the clean slate he had to kick more than half of the bearded one's salary over to this year.

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ah.  We are there.  You  have said it.  The plan was to pay a ton of money for older vets "for the short term" while building through the draft.  That is a sh*tty plan.  Wouldn't a better plan be to utilize every method at your fingertips to obtain players that will be the building blocks of your team for years to come?  

I believe that there are 2 guys that he signed during his extravaganza still on the team.  One is only there because of all the dead money and the utter failure to find any other borderline starting CB.  Add Forte to the list of guys we wished were gone while we still have to pay them starting salaries.

so overpay for marginal talents in the hopes they become good players?  he had the team at 10-5 needing one win to break the playoff drought.

Forte was a bad move.

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Have you?  The guy inherited a blank slate.  In two years he maxed out his credit cards and is paying the 2nd most dead money.  In case you need a lesson in efficiency, dead money is bad.  sh*t, his spending was so bad that despite the clean slate he had to kick more than half of the bearded one's salary over to this year.

he didn't inherit a blank slate, he inherited a situation where he had to pay a crazy amount of the cap b/c the previous guy didn't pay.  

what players that we wouldn't were out there that we couldn't afford based on these moves? next year we will have an insane amount of cap room again except we won't HAVE to use 90% of it.

fans are getting freaked out b/c of all the names we released but how many could still play at a high level? maybe Marshall? maybe Decker(if healthy)? who else? these moves weren't made for the cap for this year, it was to clean out the old guys and give young guys a chance to compete and a year from now we'll have a high pick and boatloads of cap room where we eon't have to use basically all the cap space unlike 2 years ago.  we are in a good position in the long term IF he drafts well.  that is TBD.

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10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

which one kept us from signing another talented player? which one put us in cap hell?  all the contracts were structured w/ easy outs after a year or 2.  

have you guys watched football in the salary cap era?

The object of the game is to have the guys you pay big dollars for actually be good.  The fact you can get out from under heinous blunders of your own making does not make it 'all right'.

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The object of the game is to have the guys you pay big dollars for actually be good.  The fact you can get out from under heinous blunders of your own making does not make it 'all right'.

we were in a unique situation where we had to spend a high % of our cap.  would people feel better if we overspent for younger players w/ tougher contracts to get out from?  FA is not a way to win, it's a way to add pieces around your core. the new regime was left w/ very little talent and a ton of money they had to spend.  it worked for a year, should have been able to work for 2 but it didn't.  now we are rebuilding the right way.  will it be painful? yes, will it work? who knows?  but we have tried the quick fix for a long time and have had some success, wouldn't it be nice to build a team that can compete for years?  hopefully it doesn't take as long as the raiders but hopefully we end up like they are now.

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4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Parcells walked into a very talented young team.  The team was just poorly coached, BP is an all time great HC.  many of the same players that were 1-15 in 1996 were 9-7 in 1997.

it's not just that Idzik's drafts were bad but he built up for that one huge draft and did a horrendous job that set the franchise back a few years.  we had a one year blip w/ FA when we had to spend but Macc deserves time to rebuild the right way.

Not to mention our DC was Bill Belichick.

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5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

so overpay for marginal talents in the hopes they become good players?  he had the team at 10-5 needing one win to break the playoff drought.

Forte was a bad move.

he didn't inherit a blank slate, he inherited a situation where he had to pay a crazy amount of the cap b/c the previous guy didn't pay.  

what players that we wouldn't were out there that we couldn't afford based on these moves? next year we will have an insane amount of cap room again except we won't HAVE to use 90% of it.

fans are getting freaked out b/c of all the names we released but how many could still play at a high level? maybe Marshall? maybe Decker(if healthy)? who else? these moves weren't made for the cap for this year, it was to clean out the old guys and give young guys a chance to compete and a year from now we'll have a high pick and boatloads of cap room where we eon't have to use basically all the cap space unlike 2 years ago.  we are in a good position in the long term IF he drafts well.  that is TBD.

#1.  You said no bad contracts and now say Forte was a bad move.

#2.  You have zero understanding of the cap floor.  He did not HAVE to spend all that money.  The 89% is over a period from 2013-2016.  It wasn't ******* 2016, was it?  He didn't have to spend it anymore than he will have to spend it next year.  It also only covers cash spending which means it is subject to manipulation by a savvy GM.  Our GM has not been savvy. 

#3. The only alternatives are not overpay for 30+ year old vets with injury concerns or "overpay for marginal talents in the hopes they become good players".  Have you ever heard of signing younger players to reasonable contracts?  Locking up your young players long term so that you don't end up forced to pay Winters $8M per or Wilkerson some insane amount?  It can be done.  It has been done.  

#4.  I don't think anybody is getting freaked out by the names getting cut.  We are getting pissed at things like Snacks playing for the Giants while we are paying his salary to Revis and Fitzpatrick.  It is a poor allocation of resources.  

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19 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we were in a unique situation where we had to spend a high % of our cap.  would people feel better if we overspent for younger players w/ tougher contracts to get out from?  FA is not a way to win, it's a way to add pieces around your core. the new regime was left w/ very little talent and a ton of money they had to spend.  it worked for a year, should have been able to work for 2 but it didn't.  now we are rebuilding the right way.  will it be painful? yes, will it work? who knows?  but we have tried the quick fix for a long time and have had some success, wouldn't it be nice to build a team that can compete for years?  hopefully it doesn't take as long as the raiders but hopefully we end up like they are now.

You keep saying this.  That does not make it true.  I beg you to read up about the cap floor.  Other than being close on the 90% number (it is actually 89%) you appear to have no understanding whatsoever.  I pray that our GM didn't think that he had to spend all that money for the cap floor. 

You say we have tried the quick fix for a long time, but it would be nice to build a team to compete for years while defending a guy for blowing our chance to compete for years for the quick fix. 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Parcells didn't get rid of Farrior.  He played him and prayed that he would turn into LT@ 3-4 OLB. Farrior was with the Jets right until Herm used him in the Cover Who when he finally had a  decent year in 2001.  Then he signed with Pittsburgh.

ah, right. Good memory. Herm also tried to make Shaun Ellis a nose tackle.

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How awesome is my day? Nyjunc's wild-ass ahistorical posts incited@#27TheDominator to vigorously defend both Idzik and Parcells in the same thread. @nyjunc is now in the running for 2017 JN Captain.

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Idzik was bad. Don't even look at what Macc has done because that makes it easy to draw parallels and diminishes how bad Idzik actually was.

Idzistill had the decent core left from the Mangini era. Harris, Revis, Mangold, Brick were all still serviceable players. The contracts Idzik cut were all set up by Tannenbaum for exactly that purpose. Idzik did nothing remotely competent as GM. His tenure as GM has left us with 1 average guard, 1 above average wide receiver and 1 great but troubled DE. That's in 2 drafts. In his second draft, considered the greatest WR draft of all time he drafted a safety and passed on a Derek Carr in favor of Geno. 

Macc made mistakes. Not resigning Wilk early, following the media hype on Fitz, not dealing Wilk or Richardson and not  keeping Harrison is probably his biggest mistake. Complaining about Devon Smith is foolish since he didn't have an injury history, it wasn't a Milliner situation.

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i don't know what the hell you guys are all blathering about.

On this day, I actually feel oddly optimistic about this coming season:  

We don't have a clear #1, but I think we will have a really solid WR corps that will get guys open.

I think Hack will break out and be the guy. Not listening to the negative nancys.

I think all the veteran trimmings were positive moves not tanking moves.

Wildcards are Bowles stupidity and stubborness. If he can stifle himself and embrace young players we can have a good year.

Positivity people. Get psyched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Parcells took over the best 1-15 team in history, and Rex took over the worst 9-7 team in history, and Maccagnan inherited $60 mil in cap space, but it was a cheap $60 mil.

I really wish I could find the exact moment Idzik became your boo. It's mind-boggling.

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Idzik was actually great, excellent drafter and GM. He was cut short by inpatient Jets fans.

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Idzik was actually great, excellent drafter and GM. He was cut short by inpatient Jets fans.

Either this is a joke or you've lost any and all credibility.

That, and the word is actually "impatient"...

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

i don't know what the hell you guys are all blathering about.

On this day, I actually feel oddly optimistic about this coming season:  

We don't have a clear #1, but I think we will have a really solid WR corps that will get guys open.

I think Hack will break out and be the guy. Not listening to the negative nancys.

I think all the veteran trimmings were positive moves not tanking moves.

Wildcards are Bowles stupidity and stubborness. If he can stifle himself and embrace young players we can have a good year.

Positivity people. Get psyched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I love this, 100%. You are spot on man. Actually, the unknown is what is so exciting. We actually have some guys who want to play to prove themselves, not only for money. The only thing we have to fear is Bowltite himself.

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33 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Either this is a joke or you've lost any and all credibility.

That, and the word is actually "impatient"...

Some of us probably should be in-patients in the room with the soft walls.

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

i don't know what the hell you guys are all blathering about.

On this day, I actually feel oddly optimistic about this coming season:  

We don't have a clear #1, but I think we will have a really solid WR corps that will get guys open.

I think Hack will break out and be the guy. Not listening to the negative nancys.

I think all the veteran trimmings were positive moves not tanking moves.

Wildcards are Bowles stupidity and stubborness. If he can stifle himself and embrace young players we can have a good year.

Positivity people. Get psyched.

 

If Hack throws 2 TDs to ASJ on Week 1, the bandwagon is going to break an axle from the weight of all the people jumping on at the same time.
 

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When you put down Sheldon Richardson as Idzik's biggest disappointment, you lose all your credibility. 

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9 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

2012 draft: 

Quinton Coples

Stephen Hill

Demario Davis

Josh Bush

Terrance Ganaway

Robert Griffin

Antonio Allen

Jordan White

Bad drafts don't necessarily end a team's chances at being competitive.  The Pats have had a few clunkers too.  It's bad management that sinks a football team.  Idzik was better than Mac in this regard by leaps and bounds.

 

 

That's great and all but Idzik's first draft was 2013 sooooooo......

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4 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Idzik was actually great, excellent drafter and GM. He was cut short by inpatient Jets fans.

No.

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