idzik.. just how bad was he at drafting players ? ? ?

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Why?  There were $12M reasons why not.  Why was he our only option?  The GMs job is to have options.  That failure is 100% on him.  Do you know how many teams switched QBs last season?  Why weren't we one of them?  Were we already planning on Darnold last March?  I understand plenty of those moves failed, but at least they tried. If QB is so important, then why didn't we try?  

RESPONSE to above: We drafted a QB in the 2nd round!  That response is why we are so hard on Hackenberg around here.  IMO Hackenberg wasn't expected to redshirt - he was viewed as a potential opening day starter.  Him falling on his face helped them make up their mind to pony up for Fitzpatrick.

Dom we can go back and forth on this all day bottom line Its not worth it. Lets hope Hack makes strides and becomes what his talent, size and brains dictate he should be. Lets hope for once this god forsaken team gets lucky.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Yeah, to me, your opinion seems to benefit greatly from hindsight. And seems like it's stuck in a time warp of 2 off-seasons ago.

Look, Fitzpatrick wasn't their first option. If you recall, the Jets went into a season thinking that they had a young QB and some veterans to surround him with so that he could develop. BOOM! IK breaks Geno's jaw and the Jets have to go to Plan B, Ryan Fitzpatrick. So, as Fools Gold does, he over-performed and put the Jets in a bind: either NOT resign the guy who 'led' them to 10 wins and return the reins to a VERY UNPOPULAR and untested QB or ride the nag until you have to shoot him. They chose the latter, with predictable results. To me, the Jets had to follow through on Plan B because to do anything else would be something only a poster on a chatroom would do.

For one, there would have been more severe cap issues if they released veterans before the end of last season. And for what immediate benefit? NONE. Their draft position certainly didn't allow for replacing the quality of the vets they would release. Sure, it was a longshot that they would enjoy greater success with the team as constituted, but they really didn't have serious alternatives, IMO. And, believe it or not, there were benefits to last season:

•  The Jets won all of 5 games last year, securing a favorable draft position (so having the vets didn't significantly harm the draft position)
• They saved the cap money that would have been lost releasing veterans earlier, allowing greater flexibility to signing free agents this offseason. 
• Young players got to be eased into roles, while still having the veteran presence to learn from.
• The value (or lack thereof) of the veterans was indisputably shown.
• The rebuild is sanctioned by all with no pressure to win now. 

I really don't see how they could have reasonably started a rebuild last year.

It may seem like hindsight to you, but I was vehemently opposed to resigning Fitzpatrick last year and have plenty of posts here from that time to back me up. 

I didn't call for a blowing up of the team at the time, and would not have advocated dumping contracts that would've really set them back cap-wise. But at the same time, the coaches could play the younger players. Burris has been singled out as a guy who should've gotten more playing time, but that's not the end of the list. My real fear this year is that McCown somehow manages to get this team to 3-3, and Bowles sticks with him in some he gives us the best chance to win gambit, when they really need to see Hackenberg extensively before making their decision on QBs next year. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 7/12/2017 at 9:57 PM, sirlancemehlot said:

Tanny was a poor team manager/contract manager.  Constantly peddling away draft picks, giving bad, bloated contracts, and picking up some really awful free agents like Jason Taylor and Tim Tebow.  And in his first two years he signed Andre Wadsworth, traded a 6th for Patrick Ramsey, Andre Dyson 11.5 million contract, Kimo Von Oelhoffen, Anthony Clement, Kevan Barlow...then in '08 traded a 3rd, 3rd and 5th round picks for Kris Jenkins and Brett Favre...the same year drafting the likes of Vernon Gholston and Eric Ainge...Then in 2009 traded a 5th rnd. pick and a 2010 4th rnd. pick to the Eagles for Lito Shepherd whom they then signed to a 27 mil. contract...leaving the Jets 3 total picks in 2009...and it gets worse from there.  He had good drafts with Mangini at the helm.  But overall he sucked pretty bad.

I'm not trying to suck him off, because some of the things he did - including some you omitted - were just awful and indefensible.

Some of this, though, you're being a little loosey-goosey with facts and circumstances:

• Taylor was the best FA the Jets were permitted to acquire that year, by CBA's rules that only allowed us to spend what others spent on our lost UFAs, and we had to let go of our kicker just to get even that much. His safety tackle of Roethlisberger made a game out of a lost cause.
• Wadsworth was never paid a penny. He was a shot in the dark tryout in camp for a former premiere talent, signed to a minimum contract, and was cut Sept 1st.
• Dyson's contract sounds worse until you find out that $11.5m was a 5 year contract (barely over $2m/yr); he wasn't actually paid half of that, just like he didn't make $17.5m on the 5-yr contract he signed the year before with Seattle. Team had a huge hole at CB after declining Law's gazillion-dollar option, and the only decent, available CB on the market was Woodson (whose $52m GB contract we couldn't afford). 
• Ramsey was picked up as a contingency plan in case Pennington couldn't throw anymore and so they didn't have to go all in on a rookie. If he wasn't picked up, maybe the Jets draft Matt Leinart at #4 instead of Ferguson.
• Sheppard was a bust pickup, but the deal was constructed to be a 1 yr tryout. He never saw a penny of that $27m extension, as you know or ought to know, and for an instant-starter with pro bowl/all pro ability where we had a huge hole he was worth the try. Cost a mid-5th in 2009 (#153) and then a bottom-4th (#127) a year later (trade value of a late 5th ~#160 in 2009). He wasn't bad for us initially but dropped off a cliff fast.
• Jenkins I can't get on him about. Nobody predicts ACL injuries in back to back years. While healthy, we picked up arguably the most dominant defensive player in the NFL for a 3rd and a 5th.
• The 3rd rounder for Favre...yeah we'd all like to have that one back because we know how it ended. Pennington was brutal the year before and we had nobody else other than Clemens, so I at least understand it.

The shame of the 2009 draft wasn't a 3rd/5th for a then-100% healthy (and dominant) Jenkins; those were picks traded in 2008 anyway so you have your timeline wrong.

The shame of the 2008 draft (other than stupidly winning that last game in 2007) was in not trading up for Matt Ryan and staying pat to take generational-bust Gholston, which in turn led to trading for Favre, and then trading up to draft Sanchez a year later.

The shame of the 2009 draft was trading away our 1st (#17) and 2nd (#52), plus others, to move up to #5 for Sanchez, plus our orig 3rd (#76, the second Vilma pick), 4th (#115, the Pete Kendall pick), and 7th (#228) to move up to #65 for Shonn Greene. Those 2 trades were a net loss of 3 draft picks (5 picks for the 2 players). If it's any consolation, we didn't miss out on anybody with either the 4th or 7th; even if you try to cherry-pick the selection in hindsight the best you'd come up with is Austin Collie or D.J. Moore plus some camp fodder. Meh.

[phill1c]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

You are praising him for making moves that were mandated by his own mistakes.

It was Maccagnan's mistake of breaking Geno Smith's jaw? That's what precipitated all of this.

I recognize the circumstances of his situation and feel he made moves that were logical, as regards not sacrificing cap space for no benefit and for not blowing up a 10-win team.

What would you have done differently that would have guaranteed a better result?

[slats]

7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

It was not the reactionary fans of this team it was the entire NFL every single analyst on every network said the Jets need to sign Fitz I can't remember 1 who said give Geno the helm not one. Everyone I discussed the issue with (friends co workers ...) said WTF are you guys waiting for sign the guy. Geno was a hot mess he was terrible and was not an option. And when he won the so called starting position the year before it was because Fitz was just coming out of rehab for a broken leg. Trust me and you probably know this Fitz would have been in the second or Third game after Geno sh*t the bed. IK did us a favor cause Toilet Bowles would have left him in for 5

And yet the very next year he was the worst QB in the NFL. It was a terrible signing, no matter how many people thought it would be a good idea. It was highlight reel stupid. 

[thadude]

28 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

If all of Maccagnan's sh*tty picks are Bowles's fault, why aren't all of Idzik's sh*tty picks Rex's fault? And how does being in the first year of a "tear down rebuild" excuse the fact that only one of the guys from his first two drafts is worth a sh*t? Were those just mulligans?

The fact that Bowles is making our draft picks should scare you

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

And yet the very next year he was the worst QB in the NFL. It was a terrible signing, no matter how many people thought it would be a good idea. It was highlight reel stupid. 

The Fitz contract was one of many blunders.  Mac literally was bidding against himself

[thadude]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You are praising him for making moves that were mandated by his own mistakes.

That's what I love about people praising our rebuild

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, slats said:

It may seem like hindsight to you, but I was vehemently opposed to resigning Fitzpatrick last year and have plenty of posts here from that time to back me up. 

I didn't call for a blowing up of the team at the time, and would not have advocated dumping contracts that would've really set them back cap-wise. But at the same time, the coaches could play the younger players. Burris has been singled out as a guy who should've gotten more playing time, but that's not the end of the list. My real fear this year is that McCown somehow manages to get this team to 3-3, and Bowles sticks with him in some he gives us the best chance to win gambit, when they really need to see Hackenberg extensively before making their decision on QBs next year. 

 

So, it's really all about vindicating your opinion, isn't it?

Sign Fitzpatrick, don't sign him. What's the difference? They were, rightly, planning on red-shirting Hackenburg anyway. They didn't have the talent to compete in several areas. Decker got hurt, the defense sucked. Other QBs finally got time to play eventually and then they got injured. Rookies got playing time when they earned it, not because nobody else was standing in their way. Last season was doomed; nothing could save it. Why the crying over it when the result was a clean slate and a sanctioned rebuild?

You don't get to a rebuild without some eggs breaking. Basically, all this bellyaching seems to say "Darn, I wish I had a good omelet...dam, look at all these broken eggs"

 

[Smashmouth]

Just now, thadude said:

The Fitz contract was one of many blunders.  Mac literally was bidding against himself

Mac Literally had no choice Slats argues with hindsight . Fitz threw 31tds and ran in a few more on a team that was not even supposed to contend the next season the entire team emploded not just Fitz. Its easy to sit back now and call the move bad but if Mac let Fitz walk and went with Geno Smith he would have been fired the monday after the season ended

[slats]

8 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It was Maccagnan's mistake of breaking Geno Smith's jaw? That's what precipitated all of this.

I recognize the circumstances of his situation and feel he made moves that were logical, as regards not sacrificing cap space for no benefit and for not blowing up a 10-win team.

What would you have done differently that would have guaranteed a better result?

You keep saying 10-win team over and over again, but that's inconsequential. The GM and HC should've been able to recognize those ten wins for the mirage that they were. Fitz wasn't good and the team wasn't good, they just played worse, more banged up teams every week. 

[NoBowles]

34 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

If all of Maccagnan's sh*tty picks are Bowles's fault, why aren't all of Idzik's sh*tty picks Rex's fault? And how does being in the first year of a "tear down rebuild" excuse the fact that only one of the guys from his first two drafts is worth a sh*t? Were those just mulligans?

Read Rex's quotes about the pics, then read Bowles quotes about the pics....

Rex was a fat moron dipsh*t a$$hole idiot, but he was largely neutered when it came to drafting by then.

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, thadude said:

The Fitz contract was one of many blunders.  Mac literally was bidding against himself

Wow, this old chestnut.

When you guys get something you NEVER let it go!!

Fitzpatrick is gone. The money spent on him is gone. The cap implications going forward are ZERO.

Believe me, I didn't want him signed but I understand the logic of signing him.

[thadude]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Mac Literally had no choice 

Nope.  Not true.  Fitz was never significantly better than Geno

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Tanny was a poor team manager/contract manager.  Constantly peddling away draft picks, giving bad, bloated contracts, and picking up some really awful free agents like Jason Taylor and Tim Tebow.  And in his first two years he signed Andre Wadsworth, traded a 6th for Patrick Ramsey, Andre Dyson 11.5 million contract, Kimo Von Oelhoffen, Anthony Clement, Kevan Barlow...then in '08 traded a 3rd, 3rd and 5th round picks for Kris Jenkins and Brett Favre...the same year drafting the likes of Vernon Gholston and Eric Ainge...Then in 2009 traded a 5th rnd. pick and a 2010 4th rnd. pick to the Eagles for Lito Shepherd whom they then signed to a 27 mil. contract...leaving the Jets 3 total picks in 2009...and it gets worse from there.  He had good drafts with Mangini at the helm.  But overall he sucked pretty bad.

The most horrible from Tannenbaum:

• veteran acquisitions you mention: Kimo, Barlow, Clement, Tebow -- all just brutal
• over-valuing Gholston ("with Mangini at the helm") and 2009's unknown 1st rounder pick over Matt Ryan, itself a result of giving Bryan Thomas too much guaranteed money the year before and he slacked off in 2007. Failure to make this trade - offered right to him - led to Brett Favre that 2008 summer for a 2009 3rd rounder, which then led to Mark Sanchez for 2009's 1st and 2nd rounders. F***ing butterfly effect for all to see.
• his and Mangini's childish, and purely spiteful garbage with offensive co-captain Pete Kendall who had the audacity of seeking a $1m raise on his $1.7m salary (where Tannenbaum allegedly agreed with him, that April, that his salary was low and what he was seeking was reasonable). He was traded last-minute before the season, leading the team to start Adrien Clarke.
• the makeup-sex extension for Sanchez after an awful season. He should have been cut outright if MT wanted to clear cap room, and maybe Bradway wouldn't have been "pounding the table" for nothing. Instead of Wilson, we used our 2nd round pick (#47) and paired it with our 5th and 7th rounders to move up 4 slots for Stephen Hill (over Jeffery and Wagner no less).
• timing the contracts so both his starting WRs (plus B.Smith) hit FA at the same time, leading to an ill-conceived extension for Santonio Holmes with $20m guaranteed (he was well worth the 5th rounder a year before, and could have netted a 3rd round comp pick had we just let him go, which would have been a great move for "Trader Mike")
• panicking and getting fleeced by the Saints on Jonathan Vilma. Fine to let him go with Harris looking so good after Vilma went on IR, but he really got screwed.
• allowing the HBO cameras to watch him put the squeeze on Kellen Clemens on final cut-day. It was painful to watch, as he'd tagged Clemens with his original (2nd) round tender, meaning he couldn't sign elsewhere but wasn't guaranteed a roster spot. Only compounded that, after Clemens signed it, he picked up Mark Brunell to be a rostered QBC for Sanchez.
• ...there's clearly more, but I'm just going to stop here before I damage something in this room.

[thadude]

Just now, phill1c said:

Wow, this old chestnut.

When you guys get something you NEVER let it go!!

Fitzpatrick is gone. The money spent on him is gone. The cap implications going forward are ZERO.

Believe me, I didn't want him signed but I understand the logic of signing him.

Nope. You Mac-lovers are wrong yet again

 

Fitz has $5 million in dead cap hit this upcoming season

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, thadude said:

Nope.  Not true.  Fitz was never significantly better than Geno

LOL

[slats]

9 minutes ago, phill1c said:

So, it's really all about vindicating your opinion, isn't it?

Sign Fitzpatrick, don't sign him. What's the difference? They were, rightly, planning on red-shirting Hackenburg anyway. They didn't have the talent to compete in several areas. Decker got hurt, the defense sucked. Other QBs finally got time to play eventually and then they got injured. Rookies got playing time when they earned it, not because nobody else was standing in their way. Last season was doomed; nothing could save it. Why the crying over it when the result was a clean slate and a sanctioned rebuild?

You don't get to a rebuild without some eggs breaking. Basically, all this bellyaching seems to say "Darn, I wish I had a good omelet...dam, look at all these broken eggs"

 

Well, it's not about hindsight. And I really don't need to validate my opinion on that one because Fitzpatrick failed miserably beating me to it. 

But yeah, it would've been much more useful to carry only three QBs so that Petty would get all the backup reps and Hack would get all the scout team reps. Instead, you had Geno getting the backup reps and Petty and Hack uselessly splitting the scout team reps. Everyone hates Geno, fine, that would make him that much easier to pull to see if Petty had anything to show. I had no love for Geno either, I was just a gazillion percent certain that Fitzpatrick wasn't worth $12M more than him. In the end, they paid Fitz to be the worst QB in the league because Geno was the worst QB in the league a couple years' prior. 

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It was Maccagnan's mistake of breaking Geno Smith's jaw? That's what precipitated all of this.

I recognize the circumstances of his situation and feel he made moves that were logical, as regards not sacrificing cap space for no benefit and for not blowing up a 10-win team.

What would you have done differently that would have guaranteed a better result?

What would I have done differently?  I have been railing on about this for years.  NOT paid Fitzpatrick more than $8M per.  I can see paying Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist though I did not actually love it, but Cromartie?  No ******* way.  The logic of his moves comes in reaction to his prior moves, many of which were questionable at best.  Do you really think he was aiming at a "rebuild" paying old guys like Revis, Cromartie, and Harris?  

I do not give a guy that spent all that money positives for "draft position"  Draft position is an indication of a GM doing a sh*tty job.  Why spend if you are aiming for "draft position"?  For saving money by cutting veterans that he signed?  You generally try not to sign guys to multi-year contracts when you only want them for a year.  That is on him.

 

• Quote

  Young players got to be eased into roles, while still having the veteran presence to learn from.

This is the on that hurts and the one where I can most clearly give an example of what I disagree with.  Breno Giacomini was one of the vets he kept around for presence for the kids to learn from.  Problem is, he and his $5M unguaranteed salary was on the PUP list.  He played 5 games, all in the middle of the season while they rolled with Ijalana and Qvale.  Those guys are not exactly savvy vets to teach Shell, but why pay $5M for a guy that isn't ready to start the season?  Maybe there was some kind of injury clause in his deal?  I doubt it though.

There is plenty I would have done different and I have been saying it all along.  I certainly wouldn't be looking at accolades for draft position when I had two offseasons (now 3) to shape the roster.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

41 minutes ago, thadude said:

Nope. You Mac-lovers are wrong yet again

 

Fitz has $5 million in dead cap hit this upcoming season

Try $12m.

They moved around others to lower their 2016 cap numbers at the tradeoff of increasing their 2017 cap numbers so Fitz could fit. The two that occurred in the time surrounding the Fitz re-signing were Mo (made his 2016 cap number $10m after inking a $17m/yr deal) and Skrine (to push another $2.5m of his 2016 money off to the future).

The fact that the 2017 cap number next to Fitz's name is $5m is incidental. So it will not be some "oh that's long ago" when we won't be able to use that $12m next year or the year after, when there will actually be some money contracts signed. These contracts have a domino effect and don't exist in a container labeled "2016 season only" that doesn't harm the team later.

[phill1c]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

You keep saying 10-win team over and over again, but that's inconsequential. The GM and HC should've been able to recognize those ten wins for the mirage that they were. Fitz wasn't good and the team wasn't good, they just played worse, more banged up teams every week. 

I say it because it's an actual fact, A fact that you keep, seemingly, downplaying and/or ignoring.

They should have recognized it for a mirage and done what?? I don't see anything productive to do beyond what they did. And you sure haven't told me.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What would I have done differently?  I have been railing on about this for years.  NOT paid Fitzpatrick more than $8M per.  I can see paying Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist though I did not actually love it, but Cromartie?  No ******* way.  The logic of his moves comes in reaction to his prior moves, many of which were questionable at best.  Do you really think he was aiming at a "rebuild" paying old guys like Revis, Cromartie, and Harris?  

I do not give a guy that spent all that money positives for "draft position"  Draft position is an indication of a GM doing a sh*tty job.  Why spend if you are aiming for "draft position"?  For saving money by cutting veterans that he signed?  You generally try not to sign guys to multi-year contracts when you only want them for a year.  That is on him.

 

•  

This is the on that hurts and the one where I can most clearly give an example of what I disagree with.  Breno Giacomini was one of the vets he kept around for presence for the kids to learn from.  Problem is, he and his $5M unguaranteed salary was on the PUP list.  He played 5 games, all in the middle of the season while they rolled with Ijalana and Qvale.  Those guys are not exactly savvy vets to teach Shell, but why pay $5M for a guy that isn't ready to start the season?  Maybe there was some kind of injury clause in his deal?  I doubt it though.

There is plenty I would have done different and I have been saying it all along.  I certainly wouldn't be looking at accolades for draft position when I had two offseasons (now 3) to shape the roster.

 

The suggestion that the team was right to make bad signings because it led to higher draft picks has to be the strangest rationalization I've read in some time.

A team can tank for draft picks without sinking its future flexibility into ill-conceived, dead-end, expensive players. Hell, we're doing that very thing this year.

What's worse is they could have held Snacks for another 4-5 years, and lowered Mo's long term cap numbers significantly, and the only net expense would have been expensive players they never should have signed/re-signed in the first place. 

[phill1c]

18 minutes ago, thadude said:

Nope. You Mac-lovers are wrong yet again

 

Fitz has $5 million in dead cap hit this upcoming season

Ok, let's go sign someone of quality for that 5 million...talk about your quibbling over couch change...

[phill1c]

21 minutes ago, thadude said:

Nope.  Not true.  Fitz was never significantly better than Geno

I agree, but, let's face it, Geno had as much chance of getting on Jets fans good side as I do on convincing you that he's never gotten a fair chance to succeed here.

[phill1c]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

Well, it's not about hindsight. And I really don't need to validate my opinion on that one because Fitzpatrick failed miserably beating me to it. 

But yeah, it would've been much more useful to carry only three QBs so that Petty would get all the backup reps and Hack would get all the scout team reps. Instead, you had Geno getting the backup reps and Petty and Hack uselessly splitting the scout team reps. Everyone hates Geno, fine, that would make him that much easier to pull to see if Petty had anything to show. I had no love for Geno either, I was just a gazillion percent certain that Fitzpatrick wasn't worth $12M more than him. In the end, they paid Fitz to be the worst QB in the league because Geno was the worst QB in the league a couple years' prior. 

sigh...yeah, and the result of your strategy is not really significantly different than what played out. Hackenburg was not going to play. Geno got some time and got injured. Petty got some time and got injured.

I know we're all smarter than the GM but, in the end, it worked out. The logjam is cleared, the fans got rid of the guy they didn't want and the Jets are in full rebuild. Not perfect but what you advocate is akin to caring about the position of deck chairs on a sinking ship.

[dbatesman]

44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You are praising him for making moves that were mandated by his own mistakes.

@Maxman new site banner plz

[phill1c]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What would I have done differently?  I have been railing on about this for years.  NOT paid Fitzpatrick more than $8M per.  I can see paying Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist though I did not actually love it, but Cromartie?  No ******* way.  The logic of his moves comes in reaction to his prior moves, many of which were questionable at best.  Do you really think he was aiming at a "rebuild" paying old guys like Revis, Cromartie, and Harris?  

I do not give a guy that spent all that money positives for "draft position"  Draft position is an indication of a GM doing a sh*tty job.  Why spend if you are aiming for "draft position"?  For saving money by cutting veterans that he signed?  You generally try not to sign guys to multi-year contracts when you only want them for a year.  That is on him.

 

•  

This is the on that hurts and the one where I can most clearly give an example of what I disagree with.  Breno Giacomini was one of the vets he kept around for presence for the kids to learn from.  Problem is, he and his $5M unguaranteed salary was on the PUP list.  He played 5 games, all in the middle of the season while they rolled with Ijalana and Qvale.  Those guys are not exactly savvy vets to teach Shell, but why pay $5M for a guy that isn't ready to start the season?  Maybe there was some kind of injury clause in his deal?  I doubt it though.

There is plenty I would have done different and I have been saying it all along.  I certainly wouldn't be looking at accolades for draft position when I had two offseasons (now 3) to shape the roster.

 

For all you would have done, I don't see a coherent plan there. I see reactions to what Mac has done. You wouldn't have paid Fitzpatrick. Ok, so you would have had Geno. And you didn't want that. And on top of that, you would have kept the underperforming Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist??! That's as much of a compromise as anything with the result being virtually the same.

I think in the end, your 'plan' is not any better than his and sacrifices the illusion of competing after a 10-win season that SOME Jets fans believed could be built upon. It's a compromise, just like Mac had to make. And I don't see how your plan makes the Jets any better today than they are.

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

@Maxman new site banner plz

New site design on the front page should be completed next week.

New forum skin could happen in August.

Rob Moore is the truth and he is going to be in the banner. Despite the fake news by @Bugg & @T0mShane

[slats]

2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

sigh...yeah, and the result of your strategy is not really significantly different than what played out. Hackenburg was not going to play. Geno got some time and got injured. Petty got some time and got injured.

I know we're all smarter than the GM but, in the end, it worked out. The logjam is cleared, the fans got rid of the guy they didn't want and the Jets are in full rebuild. Not perfect but what you advocate is akin to caring about the position of deck chairs on a sinking ship.

Lol @ everything being just fine when the consensus seems to be that the Jets have the weakest roster in the NFL, and have $12M less to spend in free agency going forward because of the worst starter in the NFL last year. But yeah, that's just 7% of the cap. No biggie. Deck chair change. 

 

[#27TheDominator]

31 minutes ago, phill1c said:

For all you would have done, I don't see a coherent plan there. I see reactions to what Mac has done. You wouldn't have paid Fitzpatrick. Ok, so you would have had Geno. And you didn't want that. And on top of that, you would have kept the underperforming Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist??! That's as much of a compromise as anything with the result being virtually the same.

I think in the end, your 'plan' is not any better than his and sacrifices the illusion of competing after a 10-win season that SOME Jets fans believed could be built upon. It's a compromise, just like Mac had to make. And I don't see how your plan makes the Jets any better today than they are.

I would have kept Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist.  I would have had to, thanks to the way their contracts were structured.  The problem was signing them in the first place. Skrine is probably here now mostly because, as Sperm pointed out, they had to redo his deal in order to fit Fitzpatrick in last year.  If I were GM we would not be tanking for #1 overall in my 3rd season or I'd be considering resignation.

You want a coherent plan?  Go hard after a QB.  Even Bradford is better than the sh*t we have done.  Bradford for Lee, would you do it? 

A GM does not HAVE TO do anything.  Their decisions are the results of their plans.  When the decision is as obviously stupid as paying Fitzpatrick after camp started or keeping Breno around,  it is hard to maintain confidence.

[phill1c]

Just now, slats said:

Lol @ everything being just fine when the consensus seems to be that the Jets have the weakest roster in the NFL, and have $12M less to spend in free agency going forward because of the worst starter in the NFL last year. But yeah, that's just 7% of the cap. No biggie. Deck chair change. 

 

Again, you haven't actually said what would be significantly different under your leadership. Crying about last season really is not a strategy...

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

 If I were GM we would not be tanking for #1 overall in my 3rd season or I'd be considering resignation.

At least you hope not. You can't say for sure. But it's good that you have so much confidence in doing a job you've not had any relevant experience in.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, phill1c said:

Ok, let's go sign someone of quality for that 5 million...talk about your quibbling over couch change...

"Couch change" when looked at independently:

• $12m for Fitzpatrick for his sh*tty 2016 season (passed off as less when incorrectly looked at as $7m and $5m)
• $5m for a PUP'd Breno for 2016
• $7m for Cromartie for 2015
• $15m for Harris for 2015-2016
• $6m for Revis to actually sit on a couch in 2017
• $10m (easily $2-3m/yr additional) for painting himself into a corner on B.Winters
• $3m for Jarvis Jenkins for 2016
• $5.5m for Ijalana for 2017
• $9m guaranteed (plus losing a 5th round comp pick) for 31-32 yr old Matt Forte for 2016-17
• $6m for Josh McCown
• $3m to keep Richardson in a dead-end 2016, instead of taking a good 2017 draft pick, which has led to paying another $8m for him in this tear-down 2017 season because now he has so little trade value.

So this "couch change" alone adds up to about $90m. It is gross negligence.

Not only is there additional "couch change" on top of this, but it doesn't count the other $33m of the staggering $39m for 2 years of an obviously past-his-prime Revis. 

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I would have kept Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist.  I would have had to, thank to the way their contracts were structured.  The problem was signing them in the first place. Skrine is probably here now mostly because, as Sperm pointed out, they had to redo his deal in order to fit Fitzpatrick in last year.  If I were GM we would not be tanking for #1 overall in my 3rd season or I'd be considering resignation.

You want a coherent plan?  Go hard after a QB.  Even Bradford is better than the sh*t we have done.  Bradford for Lee, would you do it? 

A GM does not HAVE TO do anything.  Their decisions are the results of their plans.  When the decision is as obviously stupid as paying Fitzpatrick after camp started or keeping Breno around,  it is hard to maintain confidence.

So, the problem was in signing them in the first place. Ok, but they won 10 games that first year, one or two less INTs from being a playoff team. and they didn't play that badly.

Again, it's one thing to use hindsight to say what you wouldn't have done. It's the EASIEST thing in sports fandumb to do.

[slats]

Just now, phill1c said:

Again, you haven't actually said what would be significantly different under your leadership. Crying about last season really is not a strategy...

You have a number of people here saying the same things to you, I don't need to repeat them. His bad contracts put him in a position where he couldn't unload certain players that should've been unloaded. Restructured contracts hurting him further. He's placed no positional value in his BAP philosophy, spending high picks on safeties and LBs while having no answers at QB, edge rusher, or left tackle. It's frustrating to me because he's the kind of guy I want in the job, someone from the talent side of the business. And I don't think he's drafting players nearly as bad as the previous regime, but he's shown no nose for the business side of the job. The part that I think should be easy. He'd be doing a lot better with an Idzik by his side. 

We're finishing up here. Your defenses of Maccagnan are really not effective, you just seem to enjoy baiting responses. Which is fine, Max likes posts. But I'm eventually gonna have enough. 

I'd like to defend Maccagnan, too, honestly. I hope Hackenberg breaks all of Tom Brady's records while some posters here continue to complain about him. But this is Mac's third year at the helm, and the Jets roster may just be the league's worst. That's a tough position to defend. Tough to say, hey, this guy's doing things the smart way - just look! Yet that's what you're trying to convince us of. Good luck.