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AFJF

Fess up...your hits and misses

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On 7/12/2017 at 8:50 AM, CanadaSteve said:

Good:

Austin Sefarian Jenkins: I wanted the Jets to draft him, and while we haven't seen enough yet, I still think he is going to show why he was touted so high.

Melvin Ingram: I always had the Jets taking him, and believe he would have been a STUD for us.

Alshon Jeffrey: Had Ingram and Jeffrey in my mock drafts online.  I should have had the first two picks in 2012!

Derek Carr: I wanted Carr, but understood why he wasn't taken.  See below for Bad.

Jamal Adams: We don't know yet, but when I saw mock drafts having him fall to us, I was thinking "Not a chance this kid who could be as good as Polamalu."  I was purdy happy, and think this was a great pick.

Paxton Lynch: Remains to be seen, but I still think this was the pick over Darron Lee.  I still think Lee will be okay, but when you don't have a QB....

TJ WATT: I like Maye, but I wanted the Jets to be bold and move back into round one to get JJ's brother.  Imagine Adams AND Watt for rounds 1 and 2.  Who knows, he could bust though.

BAD:

Geno Smith: Was happy with the pick, thought he would come in with a chip falling to the 2nd round AND being the second QB picked.  Didn't pan out.

Bryce Petty: Was exactly the guy I wanted the Jets to pick, thought he might develop, but doesn't look like it.  I will take a QB as good as Petty in the 4th any day to see if it translates to NFL caliber.

Christian Hackenberg: Wanted the Jets to take a flyer on him, just not in the second round.  I don't think he will work, but I am HOPING.

Kellen  Clemens: I believed the Jawarski hype; I thought he could have been the QB for us.

Ryan Leaf: Apparently, I should not judge QB's.  I thought he would have battled Peyton his whole career.  Oops.

Kenrick Ellis: Thought we should have traded Snacks to get a boat-load because Ellis was going to be as good.

Jerry Hughes: Couldn't believe the Jets didn't take him.  While better than Kyle Wilson, I thought he would have been a perennial pro-bowler.

 

I would add Johnny Manziel to the good.  I knew this kid was going to fall flat on his face in the NFL, and could not BELIEVE the number of fans that wanted the Jets to take him in the 1st round.  It blew my mind that people could not see this kid was going to INDY 500 crash into a fiery ball of death flames in the NFL.  

Ok not half, but 4 guys on this list you can't proclaim hit, or miss on yet (Watt, Adams, Hackenberg, and Lynch) 3 haven't played a down of football yet, and another played very little rookie year, and jury is still out (I believe, And always believed he was a bust in the making, but can't proclaim it yet), ASJ you have as in the good category, how?  He is either a miss, or a not determined so don't mention him,

Also you can argue the book isn't written on Petty yet (I'd disagree, but it could be argued he still can be good), and Jerry Hughes has 31 sacks in the last 4 seasons how does that make him a bust? Where do I sign for a Edge Rusher on the Jets that I can plug in 8 sacks automatically this year.

All I'm saying is your playing the game wrong from the OP question/game/post.

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yet... i can't resist! 

"I Knew it!"

David Johnson, Antonio Brown, Jimmy Graham, Trai Turner, Alshon Jeffery, David Bakhtiari, Jordan Reed, Kam Chancellor, Janoris Jenkins, Lamar Miller, Keenan Allen, 

"I hope no one remembers this"

Taylor Mays, Jarvis Jones, James Hardy, Dwayne Jarrett, Reggie Williams, Roy Hall, Chris Carter, Bruce Campbell, Jon Baldwin, Q. Coples, Margus Hunt

Told ya he would suck!"

Dontay Moch, Bark Mingo, Monte Ball, Blaine Gabbert, Bjoern Werner, Tavon Austin, Dion Jordan, Connor Cook, Christian Ponder

I'll eat some damn crow!

Brandon Cooks, Allen Robinson, Jay Ajay, Ryan Shazier, Derek Carr, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder

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13 minutes ago, Paradis said:

yet... i can't resist! 

"I Knew it!"

David Johnson, Antonio Brown, Jimmy Graham, Trai Turner, Alshon Jeffery, David Bakhtiari, Jordan Reed, Kam Chancellor, Janoris Jenkins, Lamar Miller, Keenan Allen, 

"I hope no one remembers this"

Taylor Mays, Jarvis Jones, James Hardy, Dwayne Jarrett, Reggie Williams, Roy Hall, Chris Carter, Bruce Campbell, Jon Baldwin, Q. Coples, Margus Hunt

Told ya he would suck!"

Dontay Moch, Bark Mingo, Monte Ball, Blaine Gabbert, Bjoern Werner, Tavon Austin, Dion Jordan, Connor Cook, Christian Ponder

I'll eat some damn crow!

Brandon Cooks, Allen Robinson, Jay Ajay, Ryan Shazier, Derek Carr, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder

No shame in saying that when I'm done with my own list that these 4 will be there.  Especially Jarvis Jones.  I really thought that kid was gonna be special.

Maybe it's that belief that has me thinking he can still be something with the Cardinals :(

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On 2017-07-14 at 11:21 PM, Lupz27 said:

Ok not half, but 4 guys on this list you can't proclaim hit, or miss on yet (Watt, Adams, Hackenberg, and Lynch) 3 haven't played a down of football yet, and another played very little rookie year, and jury is still out (I believe, And always believed he was a bust in the making, but can't proclaim it yet), ASJ you have as in the good category, how?  He is either a miss, or a not determined so don't mention him,

Also you can argue the book isn't written on Petty yet (I'd disagree, but it could be argued he still can be good), and Jerry Hughes has 31 sacks in the last 4 seasons how does that make him a bust? Where do I sign for a Edge Rusher on the Jets that I can plug in 8 sacks automatically this year.

All I'm saying is your playing the game wrong from the OP question/game/post.

Jerry Hughes would not have had the impact on the Jets; his teammates made him.  He did nothing the first few years in the league.

Lynch was a pick that I think ought have happened, and was the right pick, in my opinion, considering we have no QB.

I was a Petty fan; Had him go to us in every mock.  He is not going to be our starter.  Period.

Adams is about as can't miss as Andrew Luck was.  If I am wrong, I will move him to the Miss section later on.

Hackenberg, in my opinion, is a miss.  As much as I want to believe, I can't drink the Kool-aid

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1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

Jerry Hughes would not have had the impact on the Jets; his teammates made him.  He did nothing the first few years in the league.

Lynch was a pick that I think ought have happened, and was the right pick, in my opinion, considering we have no QB.

I was a Petty fan; Had him go to us in every mock.  He is not going to be our starter.  Period.

Adams is about as can't miss as Andrew Luck was.  If I am wrong, I will move him to the Miss section later on.

Hackenberg, in my opinion, is a miss.  As much as I want to believe, I can't drink the Kool-aid

Again your playing the game wrong.

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On 7/12/2017 at 10:05 AM, AFJF said:

I was talking more about guys coming out of college, and I have no issues with wanting Fitz last season.  As I said several times during the offseason, I would have preferred a trade for Glennon.  I didn't want Fitz because I thought he was a great choice, but I wanted Fitz because the alternative was Geno.

Even after the year Fitz just had, he got $2 mil guaranteed and Geno got $850K.  We weren't alone in wanting Fitz over Geno, and the league still feels the same way.

I'm sure there are still engineers out there saying the Titanic was well built and didn't need more life rafts.

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I'm sure there are still engineers out there saying the Titanic was well built and didn't need more life rafts.

IKeberg Enemkpali?

Edited by AFJF
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2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

I'm sure there are still engineers out there saying the Titanic was well built and didn't need more life rafts.

There's actually a conspiracy theory that states the Titanic was actually it's sister ship, which was damaged in a collision with a Navy ship and facing heavy losses.  So the company repainted it the Titanic and then sunk the ship on purpose for insurance money to keep company afloat.  

Similar to how Fitz took over after the starter was damaged in Geno, and led to a disaster, lol.  

Geno Smith got less money because he basically hasn't played the last two years.  But no point in spinning the wheel here again, time to just move on I guess. 

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3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

There's actually a conspiracy theory that states the Titanic was actually it's sister ship, which was damaged in a collision with a Navy ship and facing heavy losses.  So the company repainted it the Titanic and then sunk the ship on purpose for insurance money to keep company afloat.  

Similar to how Fitz took over after the starter was damaged in Geno, and led to a disaster, lol.  

Geno Smith got less money because he basically hasn't played the last two years.  But no point in spinning the wheel here again, time to just move on I guess. 

I'm sure if Matt Stafford hurts his leg and misses time this season, the Jets can grab him for $2 million a year if he hits FA.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I'm sure if Matt Stafford hurts his leg and misses time this season, the Jets can grab him for $2 million a year if he hits FA.

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

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3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

I'm talking about this idea that Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury.

Good young QBs make a bazillion dollars a year in the NFL.  If a young QB hits FA and the best he can do is get a backup gig for $850K, it's not because he hurt his leg.  It's because he's not good.

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32 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'm talking about this idea that Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury.

Good young QBs make a bazillion dollars a year in the NFL.  If a young QB hits FA and the best he can do is get a backup gig for $850K, it's not because he hurt his leg.  It's because he's not good.

In 2015, veteran Shaun Hill got a 2 year $6 million contract.  Same year, youngster Tyrod got a 3 year, $3,3 million contract.  

Who would you rather have? The old veteran career back up?  Or the young guy with potential?  So why didn't Tyrod get a bigger contract?  

Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury and sitting for essentially two years.  

 

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11 minutes ago, win4ever said:

In 2015, veteran Shaun Hill got a 2 year $6 million contract.  Same year, youngster Tyrod got a 3 year, $3,3 million contract.  

Who would you rather have? The old veteran career back up?  Or the young guy with potential?  So why didn't Tyrod get a bigger contract?  

Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury and sitting for essentially two years.  

 

How many NFL starts did Tyrod have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

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Just now, AFJF said:

How many NFL starts did Tyrod have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Fitz have when he signed?  

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

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3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

How many NFL starts did Fitz have when he signed?  

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

What does that have to do with my comment about how good young QB's make a ton of  money in this league?  

That was my point and you countered with Tyrod Taylor.

How many starts did he have when he got his $3.3 million and how many starts did GeNOOOOO have when he got  his $850K?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

There was a point in time when Drew Brees was a promising young QB with just two good seasons under his belt.

After one of those good seasons, his throwing arm fell off and had to be re-attached with glue and masking tape.

The Saints paid him $10 million per season even though he had to sign with his left hand to avoid further damage (and that was 11 years ago when the cap was much lower)

But I'm supposed to believe that the reason Geno Smith got $850K is because he hurt his leg?

Edited by AFJF
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Just now, AFJF said:

What does that have to do with my comment about how good young QB's make a ton of  money in this league?  

That was my point and you countered with Tyrod Taylor.

How many starts did he have when he got his $3.3 million and how many starts did GeNOOOOO have when he got  his $850K?

You said the reason Tyrod didn't get money was because there was a lack of starts, implying that the greater exposure through starts would have led him to more money, right? 

So if you can use the lack of starts for Tryod not getting money, why can't Geno use the lack of starts the last two years as his reason?  

My whole point was that Geno didn't get paid more because he didn't start the last two years, aside from one game.  Tyrod didn't start for Baltimore either, therefore limiting his value as well.  So Tyrod explains my point that a lack of exposure leads to limited contracts, plus an injury.  

You also countered with Matt Stafford, but that again goes into established star status instead of the guys we are talking about.   

How would any team know how good/bad Tyrod was without exposure?  In the same theory, how would anyone know about Geno without recent starts? Yes, good young QBs will make money, but they also have to be play.  If Geno played the second half of this season and still got that contract, then I wouldn't contest it.  But I'm not judging Geno vs. Fitz based on the contract they received because Bowles was too scared to bench a QB one year, and then Geno got hurt in the first game he played this year.  

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Just now, win4ever said:

You said the reason Tyrod didn't get money was because there was a lack of starts, implying that the greater exposure through starts would have led him to more money, right? 

So if you can use the lack of starts for Tryod not getting money, why can't Geno use the lack of starts the last two years as his reason?  

My whole point was that Geno didn't get paid more because he didn't start the last two years, aside from one game.  Tyrod didn't start for Baltimore either, therefore limiting his value as well.  So Tyrod explains my point that a lack of exposure leads to limited contracts, plus an injury.  

You also countered with Matt Stafford, but that again goes into established star status instead of the guys we are talking about.   

How would any team know how good/bad Tyrod was without exposure?  In the same theory, how would anyone know about Geno without recent starts? Yes, good young QBs will make money, but they also have to be play.  If Geno played the second half of this season and still got that contract, then I wouldn't contest it.  But I'm not judging Geno vs. Fitz based on the contract they received because Bowles was too scared to bench a QB one year, and then Geno got hurt in the first game he played this year.  

That's not what I was saying at all.  I was saying that Tyrod got more than Geno despite having not played nearly as much as Geno.  Proving my point that young QB's in the NFL will make good money if they show something.  Tyrod had shown close to nothing but was still paid more than 3x what Geno got.  The league has seen a lot of Geno.  Clearly they don't like what they've seen, or he would have gotten wayyy  more than what Tyrod got when they'd seen close to nothing out of him.

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My two biggest Bombs were Johnny Manziel and Stephen Hill In recent years. 2 guys I really wanted us to draft

Hated Gholston felt he was a scam from day 1 was praying we would pass on him. Yeah I pulled for the guy but god did I see that suckage in college when he would get a Sack then disappear for the entire game.

I didn't have much of an opinion on Sanchez when we drafted him But I felt he would develop  ...still feel like we destroyed him but who cares at this stage.

Hated the Geno Smith Pick never felt he would amount to anything.

I liked Rex but I knew his gig would get old once the team had a down year. Rex was his own worst enemy. Then I went from liking the guy to OMFG get him out of here and his tent with him.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

There was a point in time when Drew Brees was a promising young QB with just two good seasons under his belt.

After one of those good seasons, his throwing arm fell off and had to be re-attached with glue and masking tape.

The Saints paid him $10 million per season even though he had to sign with his left hand to avoid further damage (and that was 11 years ago when the cap was much lower)

But I'm supposed to believe that the reason Geno Smith got $850K is because he hurt his leg?

Drew Brees was an established QB when he hit free agency, with the Chargers with the Chargers sitting first round pick Philip Rivers for two years for him.

Yes, he got injured, but Brees was coming off two years where he threw for over 64% with 27 and 24 touchdowns.  

Are you really comparing that situation to Brees as to why Geno wouldn't get money?  

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Just now, win4ever said:

Drew Brees was an established QB when he hit free agency, with the Chargers with the Chargers sitting first round pick Philip Rivers for two years for him.

Yes, he got injured, but Brees was coming off two years where he threw for over 64% with 27 and 24 touchdowns.  

Are you really comparing that situation to Brees as to why Geno wouldn't get money?  

Drew Brees' arm fell off and he got $10 mil per season.

Geno hurt his knee and got $850K.

 

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Just now, AFJF said:

That's not what I was saying at all.  I was saying that Tyrod got more than Geno despite having not played nearly as much as Geno.  Proving my point that young QB's in the NFL will make good money if they show something.  Tyrod had shown close to nothing but was still paid more than 3x what Geno got.  The league has seen a lot of Geno.  Clearly they don't like what they've seen, or he would have gotten wayyy  more than what Tyrod got when they'd seen close to nothing out of him.

Tyrod didn't get more money, he got the similar AAV, which just means that both of them got less money because there was a lack of exposure.  In fact, if we learned anything from the negotiations last year with Fitz, players want similar money with less years because then they can rework the deal next year.  You argued that the NFL sides with Fitz because he got more money, and I countered with Shaun Hill.  

The league last saw Geno Smith fully in 2014, which is exactly why he didn't get the money that Fitz did.  

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Drew Brees' arm fell off and he got $10 mil per season.

Geno hurt his knee and got $850K.

 

Again, established vs. non established. 

That's like saying Gronk, still getting money even with injuries, because he's already established.  

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Just now, win4ever said:

Tyrod didn't get more money, he got the similar AAV, which just means that both of them got less money because there was a lack of exposure.  In fact, if we learned anything from the negotiations last year with Fitz, players want similar money with less years because then they can rework the deal next year.  You argued that the NFL sides with Fitz because he got more money, and I countered with Shaun Hill.  

The league last saw Geno Smith fully in 2014, which is exactly why he didn't get the money that Fitz did.  

Tryod Taylor- 0 Starts, $1 mil per year deal

Geno Smith- 30 starts, $850K for one year

How much do you think Geno gets in FA next year after he gets some pre-season exposure with a loaded offense?

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