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Pre-preseason predictions


Pointdexter

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What fact, find me a link of a direct quote stating that Macc drafts after being told who to take from Bowles.  Otherwise dont tell me or anyone else that theyre ignoring what you make up in your head and present as fact.  No one has ever backed your goofy point, so you check your facts.  That your fact is based on Parcells being the guy in charge says youre selling more nonsense than imaginable.  What does a HOF HC without a GM have to do with a first time HC working under a GM???  Explain that one, please use facts.  And impress all of us

Woody has spent upwards of 2 bilion on this team and dumb fans still think its odd that he has constant contact with the GM and HC and believe its a problem.  This fanbase is clueless to how the real world works

I do find the fact that every round 1 pick under Bowles and Rex except for Sanchez was defense.  And Rex went with Tanny to Cali to watch Sanchez work out on a high school field and was smitten.  With respect to at least 1st rd picks, I think the defensive minded head coaches had tremendous say.. They reported to Woody, not to the GM and it wouldn't surprise me if Woody gave then the 1st round grocery they wanted. 

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1 hour ago, Bugg said:

This is a 2-14 team. No rationale  as to how they score points. They will be lucky to get to 14 points most weeks so even if the defense approaches okay won't much matter. They did little to improve the offense nor any unit in it. And as to the defense, they have one real player worth a damn and a whole lot of question marks. But even if the question marks work out, offense could be so historically awful it won't matter.

And none of that factors in a risk averse scared coach who adds nothing in this equation. Entirely plausible OC John Morton was hired with the provision that this is a tryout for the top job midseason. 

A really top notch coach could make these guys believe, but not Bowles.  I agree. 

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1 hour ago, Dcat said:

I do find the fact that every round 1 pick under Bowles and Rex except for Sanchez was defense.  And Rex went with Tanny to Cali to watch Sanchez work out on a high school field and was smitten.  With respect to at least 1st rd picks, I think the defensive minded head coaches had tremendous say.. They reported to Woody, not to the GM and it wouldn't surprise me if Woody gave then the 1st round grocery they wanted. 

Curious, it has been said that they both are in contact with Woody, but where has it ever been even hinted at that HC and GM dont talk?  We have too many thinking because likes hearing from Bowles that Bowles doesnt talk to Macc.

Yet Bowles is telling Macc who to draft.  Odd on every level

There isnt a chance in hell that any HC isnt in on whos on the teams draft board and hasnt let their preferences be known.  Thats a far cry from making picks and the ridiculous idea that a personnel guy like most GMs and Macc would put their names and careers on the line for a 1st time HC.  Doesnt make any sense.

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25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Curious, it has been said that they both are in contact with Woody, but where has it ever been even hinted at that HC and GM dont talk?  We have too many thinking because likes hearing from Bowles that Bowles doesnt talk to Macc.

Yet Bowles is telling Macc who to draft.  Odd on every level

There isnt a chance in hell that any HC isnt in on whos on the teams draft board and hasnt let their preferences be known.  Thats a far cry from making picks and the ridiculous idea that a personnel guy like most GMs and Macc would put their names and careers on the line for a 1st time HC.  Doesnt make any sense.

Yet the correlation still exists: We are going on 10 years with 2 defensive minded HCs, neither competent in any phase of offense. And just coincidentally, nine consecutive years of all defensive 1st round picks, the only exception: Rex Ryan handpicked QB.  That is what doesn't make sense.

Rex: Sanchez, Wilson, Wilkerson, Coples (Remember Rex promised him he would pick him)  Milliner, Richardson, Pryor

Bowles: Williams, Lee, Adams.  

Yes, this makes perfect sense. 3 different GMs, and still curiously all defensive 1st rd picks not one of them saw it in the team's best interest (and their own as well) to invest in talent on the other side of the ball.  You know... the side the HC doesn't really care about.  Come on. It couold very well be that Woody gives the HC the say on 1st rounders.  Sure looks like that.

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sorry I cant agree that it makes perfect sense that a GM, whos job it is to draft talent, whos job will be judged on the talent he brings in would trust his career, his family in the hands of a 1st time HC with no history of personnel moves.

Besides that, with Macc, those who hate the guy repeat until you want to puke that two of his 3 1st picks were picks that fell in his lap.  But yet the HC wanted the picks?  No way.

BTW, HCs go to scouting events like combines, team workouts etc.  That Rex went with Tanny to watch Sanchez and signed off on his isnt Rex handpicking a QB.  Not one of know what would happened if Tanny and Shotty loved him and Rex didnt,

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7 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Why don't you stop ignoring the fact that they tried to put a competitive team on the field for years 1 and 2, and that this isn't year 3 of a rebuild?

It was stupid as all hell, but anyone with a brain and some simple logic can figure out it was mandated bun woody.

I think Woody insisted they get Revis back but the rest is on mac IMO.

Your other point is 100% accurate.

This is year one of a re-build, not year three.

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3 hours ago, AFJF said:

I think Woody insisted they get Revis back but the rest is on mac IMO.

Your other point is 100% accurate.

This is year one of a re-build, not year three.

I don't think Woody insisted on the particular players outside of Revis, so I agree, but I do think coming off the Idzik billboards, Woody told them to spend money and put a competitive team on the field. Cro for example was clearly a Bowles choice since he had him the prior year in Arizona, and I don't think Woody fancies himself a scout, outside of Tebow, but 100% Woody told them to put a competitive team on the field.

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

sorry I cant agree that it makes perfect sense that a GM, whos job it is to draft talent, whos job will be judged on the talent he brings in would trust his career, his family in the hands of a 1st time HC with no history of personnel moves.

Besides that, with Macc, those who hate the guy repeat until you want to puke that two of his 3 1st picks were picks that fell in his lap.  But yet the HC wanted the picks?  No way.

BTW, HCs go to scouting events like combines, team workouts etc.  That Rex went with Tanny to watch Sanchez and signed off on his isnt Rex handpicking a QB.  Not one of know what would happened if Tanny and Shotty loved him and Rex didnt,

What if 1 + 1 actually = 3 ?

Spooky stuff!!

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1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

I don't think Woody insisted on the particular players outside of Revis, so I agree, but I do think coming off the Idzik billboards, Woody told them to spend money and put a competitive team on the field. Cro for example was clearly a Bowles choice since he had him the prior year in Arizona, and I don't think Woody fancies himself a scout, outside of Tebow, but 100% Woody told them to put a competitive team on the field.

I don't doubt that at all.  The team was reeling and the fan base was fed up.

We'd just witnessed one the worst talent evaluators this team has ever seen as a GM and Mac had to field a team with some NFL talent to get some fans back in the seats.

 

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17 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I don't doubt that at all.  The team was reeling and the fan base was fed up.

We'd just witnessed one the worst talent evaluators this team has ever seen as a GM and Mac had to field a team with some NFL talent to get some fans back in the seats.

 

Have to admit that 10-6 season felt good after the banners, billboards and planes - if that was a "wasted" year to make fans feel good again, I would have to say that it worked (horrible ending but Jets the way it goes)

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39 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Have to admit that 10-6 season felt good after the banners, billboards and planes - if that was a "wasted" year to make fans feel good again, I would have to say that it worked (horrible ending but Jets the way it goes)

Of course it did.  The FO tried to capitalize on it and get similar results but who knew Revis and Mo were going to take the year off and Marshall was gonna have hands like feet?

Fitz was atrocious as well, but there wasn't a better option at QB at that time.

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12 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You're literally and idiot if you have no idea.  Its kind of simple after you get past you trying to compare Parcells to Bowles and what it took to get BP here. That's the writing of someone who just doesn't understand the game or its players.

 

These kinds of posts won't be tolerated. Disagree all you want with anyone, but do it without the personal attacks. 

I'm no fan of the abundance of negativity around here, either, but your constant SOJF refrain has become one of the more annoying things to read here, Try to mix it up a little bit. 

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8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Curious, it has been said that they both are in contact with Woody, but where has it ever been even hinted at that HC and GM dont talk?  We have too many thinking because likes hearing from Bowles that Bowles doesnt talk to Macc.

Yet Bowles is telling Macc who to draft.  Odd on every level

There isnt a chance in hell that any HC isnt in on whos on the teams draft board and hasnt let their preferences be known.  Thats a far cry from making picks and the ridiculous idea that a personnel guy like most GMs and Macc would put their names and careers on the line for a 1st time HC.  Doesnt make any sense.

The problem isn't that both Mac and Bowles "are in contact" with the owner, it's that there's no power structure on this team. Without having one of Mac or Bowles reporting to the other, they are presumably equal with what can be differing agendas. Mac tore the roster apart this offseason in what can only be considered full rebuild mode. Bowles had a very shaky (to say the least) last season, and may not have the same assurances Mac does at this time. Bowles needs to win now more, while Mac is looking longer term. If one of these guys reported to the other, they'd be on the same page. As the team is currently set up, they really need to negotiate with each other. It's a stupid way to run a football team. It shouldn't be a parliamentary system, it needs to be a dictatorship.

Is Bowles telling Mac who to draft? I'm sure he's telling him who he wants, or what kind of player he's looking for, and Mac has to take that into consideration because he needs his draft picks to succeed. This goes back to the lack of a hierarchy here. Without a single vision, there appears to be no vision. 

And @Dcat makes a very good point about the number of defensive first rounders this team has drafted under its defensive minded head coaches, really, dating all the way back to Parcells. There's no doubt that defensive coaches want defensive players, and voice that preference. I also think that our generally green GMs see defensive picks as safer. Offensive players, outside of OL, are much more heavily and obviously scrutinized. This team has established a pretty lengthy history now of drafting defense high and relying on trades and free agency to bring in seasoned offensive players at a much higher cost. Who was the last RB, WR, TE, or QB of consequence drafted by this team? Parcells traded for Martin, and since then we've had nothing but veteran backs brought in here. Last high-quality WR drafted was probably Santana Moss. QB? Pennington - maybe. It's institutional. 

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16 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

1) The top 2 vote getters for offensive rookie of the year will be Deshaun Watson and Dalvin Cook. We could have had both on our roster.

2) Jamal Adams will be the QB of our defense from the jump and a nice consolation from missing on Watson. And yes I realize this is far from a thin limb I'm walking on.

3) Regardless of my above praise of Adams, the safety-safety draft strategy will be mocked all year and go down as one of the bigger Jets blunders. Yes, I'm not very high on MM. Moreover, two safeties don't move the needle in turning around a franchise. 

4) Our defense is good enough to win 4-6 games with McCown starting. However we go winless in games Hackenberg starts and plays the majority of the snaps. The team can't win if we're turning it over and Hack is just too inaccurate to avoid INTs from nfl-level corners.

5) It will become obvious Forte is officially done. Powell is our best hope toting the rock and we need to find him help. This last draft was loaded with rbs and we missed an opportunity to get some serious value there.

6) The OL will be better than expected. And so will the LBs. 

7) Wrs are an interesting group with a lot of jags. No true go-to guy. Chad Hansen will be one of the better players by the end of the season. 

8) Bryce Petty will move ahead of Hack by year's end and will be brought back next year as a backup. 

9) Wilkerson will be much improved this season. Sheldon will have his moments but he will not come anywhere close to returning to all-pro level. He's gone after this year and no one will be disappointed with that.

1) Agreed.  It gives me sadness every time I think about it.

2) Leo is like, bitch, please.

3) Marcus Maye will break the string of 2nd round busts.  While he may be very redundant to Adams and not much different than Miles, he wont be a bust.  He's going to be a good player.  

4) McCown is 2-20 as a starter over the last 3 season.  He's really bad at Football.  I predict he's benched early or injured early and Hack leads the team to 4 gutty wins, giving false confidence in his ability, hence passing on all QB prospects next season.  #JetsFootballbaby!!!!

5) It became obvious Forte was done last year.  Powell has been the best RB on the team for years but Todd Bowles is dumb.

6) OL, agreed.  LB'ers, I hope you're right.  They instill zero confidence in me that the whole lot of them are anything other than JAGS.

7) I dont see Hansen jumping Q or Anderson and I think Stewart has the better rookie campaign because of his ability with the ball in hand.

8) Bryce Petty may be in fear of not making the final roster.

9) Agreed on both points.

 

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27 minutes ago, slats said:

The problem isn't that both Mac and Bowles "are in contact" with the owner, it's that there's no power structure on this team. Without having one of Mac or Bowles reporting to the other, they are presumably equal with what can be differing agendas. Mac tore the roster apart this offseason in what can only be considered full rebuild mode. Bowles had a very shaky (to say the least) last season, and may not have the same assurances Mac does at this time. Bowles needs to win now more, while Mac is looking longer term. If one of these guys reported to the other, they'd be on the same page. As the team is currently set up, they really need to negotiate with each other. It's a stupid way to run a football team. It shouldn't be a parliamentary system, it needs to be a dictatorship.

Is Bowles telling Mac who to draft? I'm sure he's telling him who he wants, or what kind of player he's looking for, and Mac has to take that into consideration because he needs his draft picks to succeed. This goes back to the lack of a hierarchy here. Without a single vision, there appears to be no vision. 

And @Dcat makes a very good point about the number of defensive first rounders this team has drafted under its defensive minded head coaches, really, dating all the way back to Parcells. There's no doubt that defensive coaches want defensive players, and voice that preference. I also think that our generally green GMs see defensive picks as safer. Offensive players, outside of OL, are much more heavily and obviously scrutinized. This team has established a pretty lengthy history now of drafting defense high and relying on trades and free agency to bring in seasoned offensive players at a much higher cost. Who was the last RB, WR, TE, or QB of consequence drafted by this team? Parcells traded for Martin, and since then we've had nothing but veteran backs brought in here. Last high-quality WR drafted was probably Santana Moss. QB? Pennington - maybe. It's institutional. 

And we know that Macc and Bowles don't talk on a daily basis just how?  Its assumed because they each talk to the owner separately, as is Woodys right and is done in most organizations that there is an issue where HC an GM don't talk.  

But somehow GM knows who the HC want in the draft so he puts his career on the line?  They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction.  And again, in two of three of Maccs draft one of the best players, a top ot top 3 player has fallen in their laps.  Im told all the time it was a no brainer.  Yet now they were Bowles picks?  

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14 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Not irrelevant at all, particularly when you read or listen to all the quotes by Bowles, and you realize that Maccagnan is essentially picking who Bowles wants. Mac very well may be a dumb idiot, but the moronic power structure and moronic owner are far bigger problems. 

Meh, there is probably some truth to this especially in the 1st round (although 2 of the 3 years decisions were basically made for them - Leo and Adams) but I doubt Todd Bowles wanted Hack or Devin Smith in the 2nd round.  Especially Smith.  At that point, they actually looked to have some nice depth at WR, Smith sucked as a prospect and there were a ton of defenders taken after him that fit what Todd tries to do on D. 

Hack?  I doubt that was Todd's influence.  Granted, this was the same guy willing to tie his career to Fitzpatrick but still.  I just dont see that being a Bowles pick at all.  

And then back to back WR's this year too?  I dont.  Just dont see that being the work of Todd Bowles. 

 

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30 minutes ago, slats said:

And @Dcat makes a very good point about the number of defensive first rounders this team has drafted under its defensive minded head coaches, really, dating all the way back to Parcells. There's no doubt that defensive coaches want defensive players, and voice that preference. I also think that our generally green GMs see defensive picks as safer. Offensive players, outside of OL, are much more heavily and obviously scrutinized. This team has established a pretty lengthy history now of drafting defense high and relying on trades and free agency to bring in seasoned offensive players at a much higher cost. Who was the last RB, WR, TE, or QB of consequence drafted by this team? Parcells traded for Martin, and since then we've had nothing but veteran backs brought in here. Last high-quality WR drafted was probably Santana Moss. QB? Pennington - maybe. It's institutional. 

Never really thought of it that way. On defense, other than sacks it's more difficult to measure success of a defensive pick. Interceptions don't really, and neither do tackles. One can be good or bad and have higher or lower totals of both. A MLB on a terrible run defense will still put up a bunch of tackle numbers, but that doesn't mean he had a good season if they're always ("always") after the sticks. Unless it's an edge rusher with 0 sacks, or a CB who's always getting burned, it's generally easier to rationalize the player doing at least an ok job and is improving, even if it's not really true.

Offensive skill position players are much easier to scrutinize and compare numerically. 1st round receiver A has 1200 yds; 1st round receiver B has 600 yds. Team QB/situation aside, almost everyone's going to credit the GM that drafted receiver A and find fault with him for drafting receiver B. 

I really wonder just how much the likelihood of immediate success truly plays into their selections. They already admitted once they wouldn't touch a 1st round prospect that wasn't going to definitely "contribute" as a rookie. It means we'd never take a 1st round QB they see as unready to start right away. It also means this group is never touching a 1st round WR until they have a good QB already set and in place.

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And we know that Macc and Bowles don't talk on a daily basis just how?  Its assumed because they each talk to the owner separately, as is Woodys right and is done in most organizations that there is an issue where HC an GM don't talk.  

But somehow GM knows who the HC want in the draft so he puts his career on the line?  They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction.  And again, in two of three of Maccs draft one of the best players, a top ot top 3 player has fallen in their laps.  Im told all the time it was a no brainer.  Yet now they were Bowles picks?  

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And we know that Macc and Bowles don't talk on a daily basis just how?  Its assumed because they each talk to the owner separately, as is Woodys right and is done in most organizations that there is an issue where HC an GM don't talk.  

But somehow GM knows who the HC want in the draft so he puts his career on the line?  They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction.  And again, in two of three of Maccs draft one of the best players, a top ot top 3 player has fallen in their laps.  Im told all the time it was a no brainer.  Yet now they were Bowles picks?  

How does a team this offensively-awful pick 2 safeties at the top? And it is institutional. it's how you pick Calvin Pryor over Derek Carr. 

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And we know that Macc and Bowles don't talk on a daily basis just how?  Its assumed because they each talk to the owner separately, as is Woodys right and is done in most organizations that there is an issue where HC an GM don't talk.  

But somehow GM knows who the HC want in the draft so he puts his career on the line?  They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction.  And again, in two of three of Maccs draft one of the best players, a top ot top 3 player has fallen in their laps.  Im told all the time it was a no brainer.  Yet now they were Bowles picks?  

This doesn't behave as a response to my post. I don't understand why you quoted me. 

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Never really thought of it that way. On defense, other than sacks it's more difficult to measure success of a defensive pick. Interceptions don't really, and neither do tackles. One can be good or bad and have higher or lower totals of both. A MLB on a terrible run defense will still put up a bunch of tackle numbers, but that doesn't mean he had a good season if they're always ("always") after the sticks. Unless it's an edge rusher with 0 sacks, or a CB who's always getting burned, it's generally easier to rationalize the player doing at least an ok job and is improving, even if it's not really true.

Offensive skill position players are much easier to scrutinize and compare numerically. 1st round receiver A has 1200 yds; 1st round receiver B has 600 yds. Team QB/situation aside, almost everyone's going to credit the GM that drafted receiver A and find fault with him for drafting receiver B. 

I really wonder just how much the likelihood of immediate success truly plays into their selections. They already admitted once they wouldn't touch a 1st round prospect that wasn't going to definitely "contribute" as a rookie. It means we'd never take a 1st round QB they see as unready to start right away. It also means this group is never touching a 1st round WR until they have a good QB already set and in place.

Look at it in these terms; defenses, even the best, fail  every game, several times a game.A GM goes defense in part exactly because it' hard to quantify good defense  it's easier to pick without getting you chops broken, until eventually over time you have Dwayne Robertson, or Calvin Pryor, or Vernon Gholston completely and obviously crap the bed. . A LT who fails is gonna get the QB clobbered,everyone sees it. But  a OLB who blows an assignment, who knows.

And micro: ; despite the Jets loading up on defense in the early rounds forever Brady and the Pats having been stealing the jets' lunch for going on 2 decades. You have to score points, and spare a bout of sanity with Mangini this franchise for decades pretends scoring points doesn't much matter.aIf you buck industry trends you had better succeed, and the jets have not succeeded. Despite all this supposed top few round talent this defense hasn't been very special. Once offenses figured out Rex Ryan, it fell off a cliff. 

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

This doesn't behave as a response to my post. I don't understand why you quoted me. 

Talking every day can still lead to 2 safeties with the top 2 picks. It's may be an echo chamber.Problem remains the organizational chart is a bowl of spaghetti. 

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35 minutes ago, JiF said:

Meh, there is probably some truth to this especially in the 1st round (although 2 of the 3 years decisions were basically made for them - Leo and Adams) but I doubt Todd Bowles wanted Hack or Devin Smith in the 2nd round.  Especially Smith.  At that point, they actually looked to have some nice depth at WR, Smith sucked as a prospect and there were a ton of defenders taken after him that fit what Todd tries to do on D. 

Hack?  I doubt that was Todd's influence.  Granted, this was the same guy willing to tie his career to Fitzpatrick but still.  I just dont see that being a Bowles pick at all.  

And then back to back WR's this year too?  I dont.  Just dont see that being the work of Todd Bowles. 

 

I agree with what your saying, I don't think its been 100% Bowles, but I do think Bowles has had a very heavy overall influence on draft picks and FA signings. That is my point. Between the idiotic power structure and the idiotic owner, its really hard to figure out who is responsible for what. And I personally believe that is just the way Woody wants it.

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1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Talking every day can still lead to 2 safeties with the top 2 picks. It's may be an echo chamber.Problem remains the organizational chart is a bowl of spaghetti. 

Because YOU would rather take a player a notch below what Macc felt just to say we drafted offense.

And no, we draft Carr, who I loved and wanted, but Idzik had his 2nd round QB.  Had nothing to do with Bowles and Macc talking.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

This doesn't behave as a response to my post. I don't understand why you quoted me. 

You werent talking about the fact that HC and GM talk to the owner?  And this is problematic because they should talk to each other?

Asking how you know this isnt a proper response?  

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2 hours ago, slats said:

The problem isn't that both Mac and Bowles "are in contact" with the owner, it's that there's no power structure on this team. Without having one of Mac or Bowles reporting to the other, they are presumably equal with what can be differing agendas. Mac tore the roster apart this offseason in what can only be considered full rebuild mode. Bowles had a very shaky (to say the least) last season, and may not have the same assurances Mac does at this time. Bowles needs to win now more, while Mac is looking longer term. If one of these guys reported to the other, they'd be on the same page. As the team is currently set up, they really need to negotiate with each other. It's a stupid way to run a football team. It shouldn't be a parliamentary system, it needs to be a dictatorship.

Is Bowles telling Mac who to draft? I'm sure he's telling him who he wants, or what kind of player he's looking for, and Mac has to take that into consideration because he needs his draft picks to succeed. This goes back to the lack of a hierarchy here. Without a single vision, there appears to be no vision. 

And @Dcat makes a very good point about the number of defensive first rounders this team has drafted under its defensive minded head coaches, really, dating all the way back to Parcells. There's no doubt that defensive coaches want defensive players, and voice that preference. I also think that our generally green GMs see defensive picks as safer. Offensive players, outside of OL, are much more heavily and obviously scrutinized. This team has established a pretty lengthy history now of drafting defense high and relying on trades and free agency to bring in seasoned offensive players at a much higher cost. Who was the last RB, WR, TE, or QB of consequence drafted by this team? Parcells traded for Martin, and since then we've had nothing but veteran backs brought in here. Last high-quality WR drafted was probably Santana Moss. QB? Pennington - maybe. It's institutional. 

 

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

And we know that Macc and Bowles don't talk on a daily basis just how?  Its assumed because they each talk to the owner separately, as is Woodys right and is done in most organizations that there is an issue where HC an GM don't talk.  

But somehow GM knows who the HC want in the draft so he puts his career on the line?  They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction.  And again, in two of three of Maccs draft one of the best players, a top ot top 3 player has fallen in their laps.  Im told all the time it was a no brainer.  Yet now they were Bowles picks?  

6

 

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You werent talking about the fact that HC and GM talk to the owner?  And this is problematic because they should talk to each other?

Asking how you know this isnt a proper response?  

No. I quoted it again and your response to give you another chance here. I clearly said the GM and coach speak, but that isn't the issue. In fact, your response -in an attempt at a rebuttal- actually just corroborated what I was saying about the team's dysfunctional front office.

You said, "They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction." 

The flip side of that is that the coach, being an equal partner at the top of the organization, could opt not to play the player the GM picked that he didn't want. Because of the structure of the front office, the GM is forced to take players the coach wants because his job is dependent on the success of his draft picks. If Bowles hates Paxton Lynch (for example) what's the point of Maccagnan drafting him? No matter how good he might have the potential to be, he'll be buried on the depth chart because the coach hates him, and Maccagnan will be blamed for a lousy pick. But if Maccagnan is Bowles' boss, he can take who he wants and order the head coach to get him on the field. 

However one feels about Mac and Bowles, the front office set up is counter-productive. 

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21 minutes ago, slats said:

 

 

No. I quoted it again and your response to give you another chance here. I clearly said the GM and coach speak, but that isn't the issue. In fact, your response -in an attempt at a rebuttal- actually just corroborated what I was saying about the team's dysfunctional front office.

You said, "They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction." 

The flip side of that is that the coach, being an equal partner at the top of the organization, could opt not to play the player the GM picked that he didn't want. Because of the structure of the front office, the GM is forced to take players the coach wants because his job is dependent on the success of his draft picks. If Bowles hates Paxton Lynch (for example) what's the point of Maccagnan drafting him? No matter how good he might have the potential to be, he'll be buried on the depth chart because the coach hates him, and Maccagnan will be blamed for a lousy pick. But if Maccagnan is Bowles' boss, he can take who he wants and order the head coach to get him on the field. 

However one feels about Mac and Bowles, the front office set up is counter-productive. 

If a HC doesn't play a 1st round pick before the reason you give he'll soon become an unemployed HC.  GMs fire HCs, not the other way around.  Using this argument the GM could leave the HC with one QB if we're going off to the extreme

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2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

I agree with what your saying, I don't think its been 100% Bowles, but I do think Bowles has had a very heavy overall influence on draft picks and FA signings. That is my point. Between the idiotic power structure and the idiotic owner, its really hard to figure out who is responsible for what. And I personally believe that is just the way Woody wants it.

Oh yeah, I agree.  The Jets issues stem from the top.  No doubt in my mind. I was just saying I dont think Todd is making all the picks/decisions.  I'm sure he's very influential in some of the personnel decisions but some of the moves made you can tell is Mac acting independently. 

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40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If a HC doesn't play a 1st round pick before the reason you give he'll soon become an unemployed HC.  GMs fire HCs, not the other way around.  Using this argument the GM could leave the HC with one QB if we're going off to the extreme

2

Not on this team. 

See, that was my point this whole time. Maybe you'll get it in this post, but I don't know...

The GM on this team does not have the power to fire the head coach. He and Bowles are separate but equal entities who each report directly to the owner. Neither has authority over the other. To the best of my knowledge, the Jets are the only team in the league who operate in such a idiotic, dysfunctional way. 

And, also, there are a number of head coaches around the league who run the show and can fire anyone but the owner at any time. 

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53 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If a HC doesn't play a 1st round pick before the reason you give he'll soon become an unemployed HC.  GMs fire HCs, not the other way around.  Using this argument the GM could leave the HC with one QB if we're going off to the extreme

Its amazing how you can be so wrong with regards to the Jets, yet be so confident you are right. what a huge disconnect.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

 

 

No. I quoted it again and your response to give you another chance here. I clearly said the GM and coach speak, but that isn't the issue. In fact, your response -in an attempt at a rebuttal- actually just corroborated what I was saying about the team's dysfunctional front office.

You said, "They obviously confer but the ultimate call, the responsibility for the pick is on the GM, he could always go in a completely different direction." 

The flip side of that is that the coach, being an equal partner at the top of the organization, could opt not to play the player the GM picked that he didn't want. Because of the structure of the front office, the GM is forced to take players the coach wants because his job is dependent on the success of his draft picks. If Bowles hates Paxton Lynch (for example) what's the point of Maccagnan drafting him? No matter how good he might have the potential to be, he'll be buried on the depth chart because the coach hates him, and Maccagnan will be blamed for a lousy pick. But if Maccagnan is Bowles' boss, he can take who he wants and order the head coach to get him on the field. 

However one feels about Mac and Bowles, the front office set up is counter-productive. 

Ya think?B)

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