Gas2No99 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Why NFL teams will settle for less talent at backup QB NFL coaches and GMs generally want the best 53 players they can find for their rosters, but they're willing to make exceptions -- especially for backup quarterbacks. At the backup QB position, some teams willfully sacrifice talent and potential for players who can support and mentor the starter. "They talk about competition at every position, but obviously there is not," a defensive coach from an AFC team said. Different teams have different priorities. Another seven backup quarterbacks are veterans who are older than the starters ahead of them and are no longer considered starting material, placing them in the veteran sounding board category. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Schaub and Matt Cassel headline this group. There are also veterans whose star has fallen but who might possess at least some perceived upside. Ryan Mallett, Geno Smith and Nick Folesfit into this category. Colin Kaepernick would obviously headline this group if he were on a roster, a story unto itself. Kaepernick edged potential 2017 NFL starters Tom Savage, Brian Hoyer, Jared Goff and Josh McCown in a recent survey of 20 coaches and evaluators, affirming that his controversial political stances are a leading reason for his unemployment, with the peculiarities of the backup position as a contributing factor. And then there is a miscellaneous group featuring players such as Kellen Clemens, Scott Tolzien and Trevone Boykin, who were never really considered to be starting QB candidates. Matt Cassel serves as a non-threatening mentor for Marcus Mariota in Tennessee. AP Photo/James Kenney What are some of these teams thinking? Why do they sometimes employ No. 2 quarterbacks who possess limited appeal in the present and no upside for the future? One general manager pointed to three traits he seeks in a veteran backup: 1. The experience and intelligence required to manage the offense in a game without many practice reps. 2. A great teammate to the starter, lending support and mentoring instead of threatening him. 3. A willingness to blend into the fabric of the team without creating distractions. An insider who was with the 2009 Detroit Lions said he's seen firsthand the pitfalls of having a backup quarterback competing to unseat the team's young starter. Daunte Culpepper was already on the roster and eager to start when the team used the first overall pick for Matthew Stafford. "Matt got hurt, and when he returned we were playing Matt no matter what," this insider said. "Culpepper wasn't good with that. We brought in Shaun Hill [the next season] and he was just aces. He was helping Matt. There is something to that." Shaun Hill doesn't present a ton of upside as a starter, but his reliability as a backup helped him play 11 NFL season. Tim Heitman/USA TODAY Sports An offensive-minded head coach said that veteran backups who are resigned to their No. 2 roles can be helpful as conduits between the coaching staff and the starter, giving coaches a subtler avenue for getting their points across to the starter. Hill made a career out of being the supportive backup behind highly drafted players such as Stafford, Alex Smith and Teddy Bridgewater. Cassel is playing that role behind Marcus Mariota in Tennessee. There is disagreement over whether this is the way to go. "The real truth is, we are hiring a backup quarterback at $3 million a year to help a QB coach and offensive coordinator who are [purportedly] so good they are in the head-coaching pipeline anyway," this coach said. "If they need a veteran backup to coach up the starter, they are not coaching him well enough. You sign a veteran backup off the scrap heap, have a CBA-imposed six less weeks of offseason program for him to learn your offense, what is he telling your starter? Is he muddying the waters?" Ten teams brought in new No. 2 quarterbacks this offseason. That included first-round draft choices Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes, plus second-rounder DeShone Kizer, whose short-term status could hinge on what the Browns do with Brock Osweiler. Case Keenum, Chase Daniel, Geno Smith, Nick Foles, Matt Barkley and Ryan Fitzpatrick are the other No. 2 quarterbacks new to their teams. "Coaches get hung up with young guys not knowing enough, as opposed to projecting the ceiling and finding ways to simplify and get around it," a veteran coach said. "Most coaches make mistakes by saying, 'Because this [veteran backup] guy knows so much, we are going to go with him even though he is a crappy player.' Veteran guys know how to make teams, and then halfway through the season, you have a guy who is not nearly as good as you would have had." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The Jets need to find a decent starting QB before we can be concerned about the backup QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicg4360 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Funny how they almost rave about career backup Shaun Hill and barely even mention McCown who is likely to be backup turned soon to be starter. Please Hack beat this guy out. Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, nicg4360 said: Funny how they almost rave about career backup Shaun Hill and barely even mention McCown who is likely to be backup turned soon to be starter. Please Hack beat this guy out. Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app Josh McCown is 18-42 as an NFL starter if Hackenberg or Petty can't beat him out we are in deep sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 I find this article interesting because Jets history dictates that the Back-up QB ends up BEING the starting QB EVERY TIME!!! All these QBs were backups who supplanted the Starting QB - and were eventually supplanted by THEIR back-up as well. Pat Ryan Everyone AFTER Boomer in '95-'96: Reich, Brister, Trudeau, Jeff Blake, etc. Glen Foley Vinny Testaverde Chad Pennington Geno Smith Ryan Fitzpatrick and so on . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn31 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 23 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: I find this article interesting because Jets history dictates that the Back-up QB ends up BEING the starting QB EVERY TIME!!! All these QBs were backups who supplanted the Starting QB - and were eventually supplanted by THEIR back-up as well. Pat Ryan Everyone AFTER Boomer in '95-'96: Reich, Brister, Trudeau, Jeff Blake, etc. Glen Foley Vinny Testaverde Chad Pennington Geno Smith Ryan Fitzpatrick and so on . . . . Sorry for being "that guy" but Jeff Blake never started 1 game, much less 1 quarter, as a NYJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 lol, they don't "choose" to settle for less talent at backup... fact is, there's not enough talent at QB to fill all the starting spots... backups suck because of supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, glenn31 said: Sorry for being "that guy" but Jeff Blake never started 1 game, much less 1 quarter, as a NYJ. You can't help yourself. I'm well aware, I just started rattling off all the early 90's QBs in my head and started typing. I noticed later on, but didn't bother to correct since the thread didn't have much traction anyway. But yeah, you're that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I am glad we spent $6mm for one. It is so hard to find a good QB, that the odds of finding a second are pretty remote. So if your starter gets hurt, your season could be done, so why spend the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 i think this speaks to the short sightedness of the coaches because they are under so much pressure to win. they bring these back-ups in to mentor and help develop the young qb's because the the qb coach isn't coaching the young guy good enough? time to get a new coach. or hire more coaching staff. the rent-a-vet qb's should only be brought in to take over if the starter gets injured. if they want the back up to truly come in and win games then he needs to be with the team more than a season. although, i will admit that favre really impressed me with his post game recall ability when explaining certain plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, rangerous said: i think this speaks to the short sightedness of the coaches because they are under so much pressure to win. they bring these back-ups in to mentor and help develop the young qb's because the the qb coach isn't coaching the young guy good enough? time to get a new coach. or hire more coaching staff. the rent-a-vet qb's should only be brought in to take over if the starter gets injured. if they want the back up to truly come in and win games then he needs to be with the team more than a season. although, i will admit that favre really impressed me with his post game recall ability when explaining certain plays. I think it speaks to looking beyond statistics at how guys that do not "buy in" can gut your team. Talent isn't everything. Especially when 99% of that players time is going to be spent on the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 On 7/24/2017 at 1:04 PM, joewilly12 said: Josh McCown is 18-42 as an NFL starter if Hackenberg or Petty can't beat him out we are in deep sh*t. If neither can unseat McCown we are drafting a QB, whether we need to trade up or not we have to get a legit prospect at QB next year. I will even say that if we have a shot at one of the best QB prospects, we take them regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 36 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said: If neither can unseat McCown we are drafting a QB, whether we need to trade up or not we have to get a legit prospect at QB next year. I will even say that if we have a shot at one of the best QB prospects, we take them regardless. Agree I would still like to see Hackenberg or Petty instead of McCown (Fitzpatrick) starting him does nothing for this organization, we also have to stop wasting draft picks on QB's and other position players we must lead the league in draft day busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 The funny thing I see with some of these guys like a Bowles is they can't stand the thought of a young QB going out there and making errors and yet they are perfectly happy to have error prone players that they coach on the other side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Bryce Petty - QB - Jets ESPN New York projects the Jets to keep three quarterbacks, but believes Bryce Petty could be in "some trouble" if he's out-played by Christian Hackenberg this summer. That's not a realistic scenario, so it appears the Jets will be keeping three quarterbacks. It's not the best use of resources when you get to keep only 53 players, but the tanking Jets have spots to spare behind brittle veteran Josh McCown. It's quite possible all three quarterbacks make starts in 2017. Related: Christian Hackenberg Source: ESPN New York Jul 25 - 2:52 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Agree I would still like to see Hackenberg or Petty instead of McCown (Fitzpatrick) starting him does nothing for this organization, we also have to stop wasting draft picks on QB's and other position players we must lead the league in draft day busts. What, pray tell, should we waste our draft picks on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Strange bit by Cimini. There was some talk that teams were inquiring about Petty last year when they were shopping Geno. Hard to believe they are going to suddenly cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 What I like is that the Jets get way out in front of the curve by rostering three really untalented backup QBs every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, T0mShane said: What I like is that the Jets get way out in front of the curve by rostering three really untalented backup QBs every year. Last year we roster-ed four! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn31 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: You can't help yourself. I'm well aware, I just started rattling off all the early 90's QBs in my head and started typing. I noticed later on, but didn't bother to correct since the thread didn't have much traction anyway. But yeah, you're that guy. I already said I'm "that guy." Where are we going with this routine? Sounds promising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Integrity28 said: lol, they don't "choose" to settle for less talent at backup... fact is, there's not enough talent at QB to fill all the starting spots... backups suck because of supply and demand. Exactly. I read the headline and the first thing I said was "because they have to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Fitz really looks goofy in that tampa uniform - Interesting point of the article was the thought or trend to move away from the Vet QB mentor, have the QB coach fill that role and use that roster spot to develop a QB, maybe that is what the Jets planned with Hack, we can only hope... but it did not sound like Chan was onboard with that idea so we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: Bryce Petty - QB - Jets ESPN New York projects the Jets to keep three quarterbacks, but believes Bryce Petty could be in "some trouble" if he's out-played by Christian Hackenberg this summer. That's not a realistic scenario, so it appears the Jets will be keeping three quarterbacks. It's not the best use of resources when you get to keep only 53 players, but the tanking Jets have spots to spare behind brittle veteran Josh McCown. It's quite possible all three quarterbacks make starts in 2017. Related: Christian Hackenberg Source: ESPN New York Jul 25 - 2:52 PM WOW, it's not a realistic scenario that petty is out-played by Hack? If Hack can't out play both of these QB's they really need to be looking at the 2018 draft early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: What, pray tell, should we waste our draft picks on? We need to find a decent QB and stop drawing straws in the draft every year we also need to stop signing others teams old garbage QB's and we need to select players who should be helping this team compete and succeed instead of drafting poorly. As a longtime Jets fan I don't think the Jets understand what the draft is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: What, pray tell, should we waste our draft picks on? Well duh....Safety, Safety and Safety of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 On 7/24/2017 at 0:44 PM, nicg4360 said: Funny how they almost rave about career backup Shaun Hill and barely even mention McCown who is likely to be backup turned soon to be starter. Please Hack beat this guy out. Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app McCown isn't a backup right now, or he'd fit in that group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 41 minutes ago, nycdan said: Well duh....Safety, Safety and Safety of course! but...but... what about the DL you savage!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 24 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said: but...but... what about the DL you savage!!! It's getting easier and easier to laugh at this team...................sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Are there even a dozen good QBs in the whole league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 On July 24, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Gas2No99 said: I find this article interesting because Jets history dictates that the Back-up QB ends up BEING the starting QB EVERY TIME!!! All these QBs were backups who supplanted the Starting QB - and were eventually supplanted by THEIR back-up as well. Pat Ryan Everyone AFTER Boomer in '95-'96: Reich, Brister, Trudeau, Jeff Blake, etc. Glen Foley Vinny Testaverde Chad Pennington Geno Smith Ryan Fitzpatrick and so on . . . . Lol...all the way back to Todd and Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Doggin94it said: McCown isn't a backup right now, or he'd fit in that group 18-42. It is amazing that he is still in the NFL...only the Jets and the Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpoppy717 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just now, Jetdawgg said: 18-42. It is amazing that he is still in the NFL...only the Jets and the Browns But he's a great mentor . . . look at how he turned Johnny Manziel into a . . .oh wait a second . . . Mike Glennon into . .. no not him either. . . how about his brother Luke McCown . . .nope Can someone remind me who McCown has mentored that's turned out to be a good QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 minute ago, jpoppy717 said: But he's a great mentor . . . look at how he turned Johnny Manziel into a . . .oh wait a second . . . Mike Glennon into . .. no not him either. . . how about his brother Luke McCown . . .nope Can someone remind me who McCown has mentored that's turned out to be a good QB? Exactly but the NY Jets act as if they found the next coming of Tom Brady just as they did with Ryan Fitzpatrick another teams sh*t scrub loser YAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Having a veteran mentor a young quarterback is a sound plan and there's nothing wrong with it. If you're trying to develop a young guy you need a veteran on board that will not cause problems and will gracefully step aside when it's time for the young guy to play. That's what we thought Fitzpatrick was but apparently not. McCown so far seems to understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 If we are looking for a mentor QB why not sign Peyton Manning as a QB coach....tired of hearing it already we are always mentoring or grooming a QB who never pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.