CTE Found In 90% of Donated Brains

[Adoni Beast]

With more research being done and more evidence surfacing its only a matter of time before football will be completely different from how we were raised with it. Its already gone through a lot of rule changes for player safety that a lot of us gripe at, but I feel over time, with more law suits to come and the bad press that comes with it, drastic changes will be made.

Tobacco and alcohol are still legal so I don't ever see football going away. Just curious how the game will look in 10-20 years.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20153831/cte-found-nearly-90-percent-brains-donated-deceased-football-players

CHICAGO -- Research on 202 former football players found evidence of brain disease in nearly all of them, from athletes in the NFL, college and even high school.

It's the largest update on chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a brain disease linked with repeated head blows.

But the report doesn't confirm that the condition is common in all football players; it reflects high occurrence in samples at a Boston brain bank that studies CTE. Many donors or their families contributed because of the players' repeated concussions and troubling symptoms before death.

"There are many questions that remain unanswered," said lead author Dr. Ann McKee, a Boston University neuroscientist.

Among those questions: How common is this? How many years of football are too many? What is the genetic risk?

"Some players do not have evidence of this disease despite long playing years," McKee noted.

It's also uncertain if some players' lifestyle habits -- alcohol, drugs, steroids, diet -- might somehow contribute, McKee said.

Dr. Munro Cullum, a neuropsychologist at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, emphasized that the report is based on a selective sample of men who were not necessarily representative of all football players. He said problems other than CTE might explain some of their most common symptoms before death, such as depression, impulsivity and behavior changes. Cullum was not involved in the report.

McKee said research from the brain bank may lead to answers and an understanding of how to detect the disease in life, "while there's still a chance to do something about it." There's no known treatment.

The strongest scientific evidence says CTE can only be diagnosed by examining brains after death, although some researchers are experimenting with tests performed on the living. Many scientists believe repeated blows to the head increase risks for developing CTE, leading to progressive loss of normal brain matter and an abnormal buildup of a protein called tau. Combat veterans and athletes in rough contact sports like football and boxing are among those thought to be most at risk.

The new report was published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

CTE was diagnosed in 177 former players -- nearly 90 percent of brains studied. That includes 110 of 111 brains from former NFL players; 48 of 53 college players; nine of 14 semi-professional players; seven of eight Canadian Football League players; and three of 14 high school players. The disease was not found in brains from two younger players.

A panel of neuropathologists made the diagnosis by examining brain tissue, using recent criteria from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, McKee said.

The NFL issued a statement saying these reports are important for advancing science related to head trauma and said the league "will continue to work with a wide range of experts to improve the health of current and former NFL athletes."

After years of denials, the NFL has acknowledged a link between head blows and brain disease and agreed in a $1 billion settlement to compensate former players who had accused the league of hiding the risks.

The journal update includes many previously reported cases, including former NFL players Bubba Smith, Ken Stabler, Junior Seau and Dave Duerson.

New ones include retired tight end Frank Wainright, whose 10-year NFL career included stints with the Miami Dolphins, New Orleans Saints and Baltimore Ravens. Wainright died last October at age 48 from a heart attack triggered by bleeding in the brain, said his wife, Stacie. She said he had struggled almost eight years with frightening symptoms including confusion, memory loss and behavior changes.

Wainright played before the league adopted stricter safety rules and had many concussions, she said. He feared CTE and was adamant about donating his brain, she said.

"A lot of families are really tragically affected by it -- not even mentioning what these men are going through and they're really not sure what is happening to them. It's like a storm that you can't quite get out of," his wife said.

Frank Wycheck, another former NFL tight end, said he worries that concussions during his nine-year career -- the last seven with the Tennessee Titans -- have left him with CTE and he plans to donate his brain to research.

"Some people have heads made of concrete, and it doesn't really affect some of those guys," he said. "But CTE is real."

"I know I'm suffering through it, and it's been a struggle and I feel for all the guys out there that are going through this," said Wycheck, 45.

In the new report, McKee and colleagues found the most severe disease in former professional players; mild disease was found in all three former high school players diagnosed with the disease. Brain bank researchers previously reported that the earliest known evidence of CTE was found in a high school athlete who played football and other sports who died at age 18. He was not included in the current report.

The average age of death among all players studied was 66. There were 18 suicides among the 177 diagnosed.

[Gas2No99]

At this stage of the sport, people KNOW what they're getting in to and the renumeration is pretty good if you make the cut. 

Play football, your brain MAY become scrambled eggs 90% of the time. But you'll have a better financial foundation for you and your family if you manage it right: Sacrifice.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

My opinion, start shedding the protective equipment. These guys are so reckless on the field because of the equipment that's supposed to protect them. 

 

If they had less equipment we would NEVER see plays like this. 

 

As entertainment this is great, but the reality is if they hit the field with as much equipment as rugby players these guys wouldnt do this. 

[RoadFan]

People should no longer mock former football players for erratic behavior.  We have to take into account CTE could be a contributing factor.

[kdels62]

17 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

At this stage of the sport, people KNOW what they're getting in to and the renumeration is pretty good if you make the cut. 

Play football, your brain MAY become scrambled eggs 90% of the time. But you'll have a better financial foundation for you and your family if you manage it right: Sacrifice.

 

 

Yeah they pay those college athletes really well. 

[peebag]

13 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

People should no longer mock former football players for erratic behavior.  We have to take into account CTE could be a contributing factor.

hmmm....that would explain Geno,Fitzy and Sanchez.

[Gas2No99]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah they pay those college athletes really well. 

I don't fall for that crutch. There's a FREE education that is provided that is the equivalent to $100K+ over four years and that will last you longer than a professional sports career. But THAT conversation has been had one too many times already. 

[whodeawhodat]

30 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

My opinion, start shedding the protective equipment. These guys are so reckless on the field because of the equipment that's supposed to protect them. 

 

If they had less equipment we would NEVER see plays like this. 

 

As entertainment this is great, but the reality is if they hit the field with as much equipment as rugby players these guys wouldnt do this. 

haha, first comment on that youtube clip is great  

[Beerfish]

I didn't read the article but my same question remains as I've had before.

Do they have a a blind control test with as many brains of non football players as football players and is the testing done bind?

 

 

[rangerous]

43 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

At this stage of the sport, people KNOW what they're getting in to and the renumeration is pretty good if you make the cut. 

Play football, your brain MAY become scrambled eggs 90% of the time. But you'll have a better financial foundation for you and your family if you manage it right: Sacrifice.

 

 

aw c'mon.  you know these guys only play football because we (society) forces them to.  it's all our fault.

[rangerous]

45 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

My opinion, start shedding the protective equipment. These guys are so reckless on the field because of the equipment that's supposed to protect them. 

 

If they had less equipment we would NEVER see plays like this. 

 

As entertainment this is great, but the reality is if they hit the field with as much equipment as rugby players these guys wouldnt do this. 

i agree with this.  i also think each position should have a weight limit assigned such as, linemen can be 250-275 lbs, wr's-180-190 lbs, lb's-210-240 lbs and so on. or teams should only be able to field an aggregate weight such as 2500 lbs for the defense or offense.  that would cut down the players who need to take steroids to get larger.

[#27TheDominator]

That is the rugby argument.  Those dudes want to act like it is tougher because they don't wear pads and don't take a break between plays.  That is the only reason why NFL players are able to run top speed into each other. 

[Adoni Beast]

53 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

At this stage of the sport, people KNOW what they're getting in to and the renumeration is pretty good if you make the cut. 

Play football, your brain MAY become scrambled eggs 90% of the time. But you'll have a better financial foundation for you and your family if you manage it right: Sacrifice.

 

 

Its not as simple as leaving it up to the players. There will be more law suits in the coming years, which will cause the the league, owners, and sponsors to consider changes. 

Also, this discussion isn't relegated to the NFL. How will this affect kid leagues? Will they eventually ban tackle football until you are in high school? Or even until you are 18? Who knows?

[David Harris]

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

[Adoni Beast]

9 minutes ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

I happen to agree with this stance. Lay out all the facts. Let individuals make their own decisions based off of that. Run the risk vs. reward and choose. But as with many things, I fear big changes will be made at some point, neutering the game completely. 

Its all relative. At some point someone said, "they banned the gladiator games?! Ahh this world is becoming soft."  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah they pay those college athletes really well. 

If you're good enough, they sure do.  On top of a full ride.  Probably my favorite part of the "NCAA are monsters, pay those kids" argument is, they are getting paid.  It's just not public knowledge.

 

[ljr]

43 minutes ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

I agree with the "it's your choice" in general attitude ... Certainly at a pro-level ... But ...

If I read the study results right ... It was saying something like 90+ % of football brains studied show CTE effect

there is no way that doesn't have a huge impact on how the game is played at college level ... And even more so high school & peewee 

[Hael]

42 minutes ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

The same argument could be made for gladiators or Russian Roulette.

At the end of the day past a certain probability of injury or severe impairment no amount of financial compensation makes such entertainment morally justifiable.  

People will do anything for their families, and that's a sufficient reason to NOT allow them to make this sort of choice.

[#27TheDominator]

I really miss the National Russian Roulette League. 

[Gas2No99]

5 minutes ago, Hael said:

The same argument could be made for gladiators or Russian Roulette.

At the end of the day past a certain probability of injury or severe impairment no amount of financial compensation makes such entertainment morally justifiable.  

People will do anything for their families, and that's a sufficient reason to NOT allow them to make this sort of choice.

SMH. 

 

[JustInFudge]

45 minutes ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

It's sad to hear about how tough life is for some of these former players.  Nobody wants to see their childhood idol completely out of it, in diapers with no memory of their glory days. That said, I dont really feel sorry for them.  That might seem harsh but it's true. 

Like you said, these guys are treated like gods from damn near grade school till even life after Football.  I remember the D1 athletes in my high school being treated like gold. They could do anything they wanted, skip class, pulled the hottest ass, go to visit all these amazing schools, were getting all sorts of under the table money/cars/gear, etc and do you think that treatment stops in college?  Hell no.  See all the Florida colleges.  haha  Then, if they're good enough...they get paid a kings ransom to play a child's sport for half a year.  

This was a choice.  Nobody forced them to pursue a life of Football.  They all know there are some health risks associated.  Sure, maybe CTE is more of a recent study but is it really surprising?  Like is any Football player shocked that their brain isnt a 100% after playing a contact sport their whole life?  That would be like a boxer complaining about all the head shots he took, or an MMA fighter complaining about having their face altered.  

I agree with you.  Let the players and their families decide.  

[Adoni Beast]

7 minutes ago, ljr said:

I agree with the "it's your choice" in general attitude ... Certainly at a pro-level ... But ...

If I read the study results right ... It was saying something like 90+ % of football brains studied show CTE effect

there is no way that doesn't have a huge impact on how the game is played at college level ... And even more so high school & peewee 

It WILL definitely have an impact. My opinion and whats going to happen are two different things. First thing to get changed is pee we for sure. 

[kdels62]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

If you're good enough, they sure do.  On top of a full ride.  Probably my favorite part of the "NCAA are monsters, pay those kids" argument is, they are getting paid.  It's just not public knowledge.

 

And what about the kids that play for non conference teams, 2nd division teams, or even average players at major teams? What happens if those kids get caught? Their program gets punished, kids lose scholarships and coaches move on to their next multimillion dollar gig.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's sad to hear about how tough life is for some of these former players.  Nobody wants to see their childhood idol completely out of it, in diapers with no memory of their glory days. That said, I dont really feel sorry for them.  That might seem harsh but it's true. 

Like you said, these guys are treated like gods from damn near grade school till even life after Football.  I remember the D1 athletes in my high school being treated like gold. They could do anything they wanted, skip class, pulled the hottest ass, go to visit all these amazing schools, were getting all sorts of under the table money/cars/gear, etc and do you think that treatment stops in college?  Hell no.  See all the Florida colleges.  haha  Then, if they're good enough...they get paid a kings ransom to play a child's sport for half a year.  

This was a choice.  Nobody forced them to pursue a life of Football.  They all know there are some health risks associated.  Sure, maybe CTE is more of a recent study but is it really surprising?  Like is any Football player shocked that their brain isnt a 100% after playing a contact sport their whole life?  That would be like a boxer complaining about all the head shots he took, or an MMA fighter complaining about having their face altered.  

I agree with you.  Let the players and their families decide.  

Everybody knew that football was a risk, but there is a pretty big difference between a risk and a certainty.  90% is basically a certainty of CTE.  

[RoadFan]

48 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

I don't fall for that crutch. There's a FREE education that is provided that is the equivalent to $100K+ over four years and that will last you longer than a professional sports career. But THAT conversation has been had one too many times already. 

College athletics, especially scholarships, are very helpful for those that intend to graduate and pursue careers in something other than professional sports.

For potential professional athletes, it falls somewhere between somewhat useful to entirely counterproductive.

People can draw their own conclusions about the following;

The one n' done debate in NCAA basketball; College baseball vs. minor leagues (minor league baseball is almost free labor and a total sham IMO); Or how about the baseball academies in places like the Dominican Republic and Venezuela? College football vs. the "developmental league" idea;  College hockey vs. minor leagues.

l choose to use the other football to prove my point.  Virtually everywhere else around the globe, talent is found at a young age.  They are taught typical school studies at special academies, as well as regular training sessions.  Those kids are taught high-level tactics, different formations and styles, as well as multiple foreign languages to expand their prospective club possibilities in different countries.   There are plenty of youtube videos out there as young as U10 matches between teams from the academies of Barcelona, Arsenal, Ajax, Bayern, etc..  What many of those kids are doing is on an entirely different stratosphere than the quality American youth travel club players. 

I guess I went off on a tangent trying to prove my point...

 

 

 

 

 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Gas2No99 said:

I don't fall for that crutch. There's a FREE education that is provided that is the equivalent to $100K+ over four years and that will last you longer than a professional sports career. But THAT conversation has been had one too many times already. 

What crutch? Those kids essentially work a part time job plus travel and media responsibilities while also going to school. Being a good college student is time consuming and mix that with trying to be a great athlete and trying to get drafted to get a payday. Now that job that your doing makes the school hundreds of millions in revenue, it makes your coach a multimillionaire and if you don't go pro you can be happy with your $75k a year job while your memory fades and that coach uses another 90 twenty year olds to get an even bigger contract. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

What crutch? Those kids essentially work a part time job plus travel and media responsibilities while also going to school. Being a good college student is time consuming and mix that with trying to be a great athlete and trying to get drafted to get a payday. Now that job that your doing makes the school hundreds of millions in revenue, it makes your coach a multimillionaire and if you don't go pro you can be happy with your $75k a year job while your memory fades and that coach uses another 90 twenty year olds to get an even bigger contract. 

D1 takes a lot more time than a "part time job"

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

my point is I'm sure it's real- study away- eyes wide open but await the outrage porn from all the do gooders who will take a type of sick pleasure in jumping on the moral high ground and make more laws.

 let the players and their families decide if it's worth the risks

 

You are right, with the information public now, players and families should be allowed to choose... just like boxers and MMA fighters.

Nevertheless, there are alot, and I do mean TONS of stupid parents out there that still aren't able to comprehend the concept of CTE.  Poor kids...

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

What crutch? Those kids essentially work a part time job plus travel and media responsibilities while also going to school. Being a good college student is time consuming and mix that with trying to be a great athlete and trying to get drafted to get a payday. Now that job that your doing makes the school hundreds of millions in revenue, it makes your coach a multimillionaire and if you don't go pro you can be happy with your $75k a year job while your memory fades and that coach uses another 90 twenty year olds to get an even bigger contract. 

The NCAA is corrupt. However, you're never getting rid of Title IX to pay these guys at the profit generating schools/sports.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

And what about the kids that play for non conference teams, 2nd division teams, or even average players at major teams? What happens if those kids get caught? Their program gets punished, kids lose scholarships and coaches move on to their next multimillion dollar gig.

I dont think I'm getting your point.  If you're good enough, you get paid. Just like the NFL.  

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Everybody knew that football was a risk, but there is a pretty big difference between a risk and a certainty.  90% is basically a certainty of CTE.  

I get that but my point is, how is this surprising?  You play a game that when you enter the field, you put a helmet on to protect your head because you're about to go bash into a bunch of massive men.  Did people really think, I'm safe, I've got a helmet on?  That would be like a solider saying, I'm good, I've got my helmet on.  It helps and that's all but it doesnt mean your safe.  At least, I never felt that way.

When was it all but confirmed that Ali's Parkinson was probably brought on due to blows to the head?  

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, RoadFan said:

You are right, with the information public now, players and families should be allowed to choose... just like boxers and MMA fighters.

Nevertheless, there are alot, and I do mean TONS of stupid parents out there that still aren't able to comprehend the concept of CTE.  Poor kids...

High school football and below isn't very dangerous. 

[Hael]

The last time this topic came up, we found out that the most dangerous professions in the US have mortality rates of like .1%.  This is nearly three orders of magnitude worse.  

Im fine with people taking risks and getting compensated for it.  Even if it was 1% risk, (which is absurdly high) you could entertain free choice arguments etc.  But 90% is quite literally gladiator games level of bullsh*t.  People trying to justify that are frankly insane.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

So a few thousand homo sapien males (out of 150 million in the US) probably have some degree of football related CTE. It's good for football players to know the possible cost so they can decide if the benefits are worth it to them which often include free education, life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment, sacrifice, sex with hot chicks- essentially get worshipped and sought after for their physical prowess by men and women alike while participating in the last mostly safe vestige for the testosterone driven savagery within all of us talking monkeys.

 

 

Let's break it down a bit.  Nobody is risking their brain health for education (how ironic), life lessons, toughness, teamwork, strategy, structure, pride, commitment or sacrifice.  Waste of bandwidth there.

However, sex with hot chicks and money.  Teenage boys/men will line up around the planet for those, damn the consequences.  

Now while this comes across as snarky, it's actually a serious point.  20-year olds, IMO, do not have the long term judgment to make that decision.  At that age they are raging meat-sacks of hormones and still believe they are invincible.  20 years later they will all regret it and be suing the league anyway.  It's not as simple as saying "let them choose".  

I love football, but if the cost is this high, it may be time to rethink the game a bit.

 

 

 

[RoadFan]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

High school football and below isn't very dangerous. 

You're proving my point.

What Pediatric neurologists have you talked to?  I know a few that would disagree.

There are even advocates to prevent heading the ball in girls soccer before a certain age.

[pointman]

I played in college and got worked. I believe the hits I endured have taken a toll. Would I play again? Yes. If taking more punishment meant I got to play a down in the league would I? Absolutely. The NFL is a privilege. People know what they are getting into. 

And that study is of people who donated the brains of loved ones that exhibited signs of CTE. Such a small sample size of people who are saying "hey, I think my loved one had some sort of brain damage." What about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who played and are just fine. 

 

Pads or no pads... when you see a guy coming over the middle blind to you and you get a 10 yard lead to pickup speed and send him to the morgue.. you better believe I'm taking that shot.