Hack's Footwork

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I am not sure what you're implying. A player can't show improved mechanics in practice? If a basketball player worked on his FT mechanics and was hitting more FTs in practice, would you say something stupid like "not a single NBA rep and he's apparently fixed his mechanics"? 

Improved mechanics is simply a step in the right direction. It doesn't mean he will be great or even decent, it just means there is a glimmer of hope in a kid with a TON of talent. His numbers in camp so far have been pretty good and most real Jets fans are happy with the improvement. But none of us are going out and buying Hack jerseys. 

I AM!!!!  

[JETSfaninNE]

32 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I meant proven Vets. Powell and Forte I'll give you, but they're both trying to earn carries as well. Forte doesn't strike me as a malcontent. 

I get that they may want the Vet, but I'm just saying that Mac got rid of every player with the clout, and the personality to rock the boat. 

Everyone on the offense is trying to prove themselves at this point. 

Oh yeah 100% agreed, you can definitely tell this seems to be a team first close knit family once again.  Haven't had it like this in a long time.  Hoping the young leaders who are stepping up like Leo and Allen have really set the tone.  I even really like what I heard from Sheldon yesterday about his role in TC and trying to answer everything he can for the young guys and if he doesn't have the answer he will find someone that does and together they will get an answer.  That is the kind of small things successful teams stack and build up.  I'm actually wondering if guys like Leo have started to rub off on guys like Sheldon as well, I'm a glass half full guy so I'm trying to stay optimistic that he is maturing and changing and not just trying to behave for the contract. 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, j4jets said:

Lol this is awesome. Not a single NFL rep and he's apparently fixed his mechanics. Btw is he able to hit the ocean yet?

What does a single NFL rep have to do with a player improving his mechanics.

I know we're starting with the amazingly ridiculous idea that improving footwork is a next to impossible mechanic to fix but come on, what will it take?

[JETSfaninNE]

37 minutes ago, slats said:

This is too slow, IMHO. I'm reasonably pleased with McCown and Hack getting roughly equal snaps right now, but I'd like to see Hack start getting more of the starters reps in the coming (single digit) days, en route to starting the first preseason game. I don't think a second year second round pick should be on the same schedule as a fourth round rookie. Especially here, where Josh McCown is clearly not the future. 

I think these first few practices should be that breaking in period that you're talking about, but that Hackenberg should be in the starter's role well before the first preseason game - provided that he continues to produce in practice. 

This is what I'm hoping they're doing, too, but I also have no problem with them putting their thumb on the Hackenberg side of the scale. The only way McCown should start for this team is if he's demonstratively better than Hack. That throwing Hack out there hurts the development of the young receivers et al on the team. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case. They're at least close, and it seems to me that most reporting has Hackenberg ahead. The failures of Geno and Sanchez aren't applicable here. They've already given Hackenberg the redshirt year both of those players would've greatly benefitted from. This kid has three more seasons (including this one) under his rookie deal, and they need to find out everything they can about him before they're in a position to draft a potential franchise QB in the first round next year.  

I'm sure Hackenberg, the players, and the coaches are all well aware of the press surrounding the young QB. Opening camp with him in the #2 spot was the right thing to do to take the pressure off a little bit, and let him get acclimated to something more than a scout team role for the first time. But they have to take the rest of the bubble wrap off, already. It's okay to play favorites with a young highish draft pick over a 38-year-old veteran - at any position on the team. 

I agree the earlier Hack can take it the better.  But I emphasize the lead up and play of game 1 because that is when the lights come on and the real hitting begins.  Hack could be a practice golden boy and a complete disaster in live performance.  If you hand him the reigns too early its detrimental to every other developing player on the team, this includes both offense and defense.  I'm right there with you.  If he keeps showing he's consistent with his accuracy and he's able to handle the next installments of the offensive packages as they introduce them over the next few practices and he starts making better and faster decisions with check downs, scrambling and throwing the ball away then by all means keep increasing that workload.  But its only 2 days, no pads so the reports throughout this week will help us glean if he can stay consistent with the next phases of TC.

[Jet Nut]

50 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

This is a great point.  The longer McCown gets 1st string reps, the more likely it will be that be builds allies which could potentially create tension later on.  If this friggin team had any sense, they would make it clear right from the get go that Hack and Petty are going to fight it out for the starting role and McCown will be the backup. This notion that a team in full rebuild mode will start a veteran stiff journeyman QB instead of one of their recently drafted QB prospects is beyond ridiculous.

Dont know about that.  There have been lots of complimentary comments about Hacks improvement from year one to two.  They have been tempered with he needs to keep improving but there hasn't been a single complimentary comment other than he's a consummate professional or that he's very knowledgable made towards McCown

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I am not sure what you're implying. A player can't show improved mechanics in practice? If a basketball player worked on his FT mechanics and was hitting more FTs in practice, would you say something stupid like "not a single NBA rep and he's apparently fixed his mechanics"? 

Improved mechanics is simply a step in the right direction. It doesn't mean he will be great or even decent, it just means there is a glimmer of hope in a kid with a TON of talent. His numbers in camp so far have been pretty good and most real Jets fans are happy with the improvement. But none of us are going out and buying Hack jerseys. 

Fairy-tale. You can't fix your mechanics without facing any opposition. The slightest of pressure from an NFL defender (notice how I said NFL defender) and these fixed mechanics revert back to their old self. Fixed mechanics? Not by a long mile! Worked on his mechanics? That I can believe.

Its like this:

First Guy - Hey guys, I just put a turbo engine in my Kia Soul that can now do 0-60 in under 3 seconds
Second Guy - Have you tested it?
First Guy - No
Third Guy - Lol this is awesome. Not a single test run yet and he can apparently do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. 
Fourth Guy - Just because he hasn't tested it yet, doesn't mean he can't do 0-60 in 3 secs. 
Third Guy - Yeah, well can we at least test it out before we make those claims?

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, j4jets said:

Fairy-tale. You can't fix your mechanics without facing any opposition. The slightest of pressure from an NFL defender (notice how I said NFL defender) and these fixed mechanics revert back to their old self. Fixed mechanics? Not by a long mile! Worked on his mechanics? That I can believe.

Its like this:

First Guy - Hey guys, I just put a turbo engine in my Kia Soul that can now do 0-60 in under 3 seconds
Second Guy - Have you tested it?
First Guy - No
Third Guy - Lol this is awesome. Not a single test run yet and he can apparently do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. 
Fourth Guy - Just because he hasn't tested it yet, doesn't mean he can't do 0-60 in 3 secs. 
Third Guy - Yeah, well can we at least test it out before we make those claims?

Talk about fairy tales...start with you cant be better in camp and that under the first pass rush he'll revert to what he did at PSU.  

He's not facing pressure from NFL defenders?  He might be facing the toughest defense he sees all year.

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

 

So you are dismissive of reports of his improved mechanics, but take to heart an anonymous quote about him being "able to hit the ocean".

Sound logic.

 

Except he sucked so bad last year that even he couldn't get a single snap in a year the team lost 11 games with two of its QBs injured. So maybe there's something to it? 

[j4jets]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Talk about fairy tales...start with you cant be better in camp and that under the first pass rush he'll revert to what he did at PSU.  

He's not facing pressure from NFL defenders?  He might be facing the toughest defense he sees all year.

Except he knows he's not getting hit. Remember that time when Geno was playing lights out in camp? I'll believe it when I see it. 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, j4jets said:

Except he knows he's not getting hit. Remember that time when Geno was playing lights out in camp? I'll believe it when I see it. 

You mean when Geno was playing lights out and then had his jaw broken so we never got to see it translate to a real game?  Until he actually got into one and player well, better than Fitz?

Actually getting hit would lead me to get rid of the ball quicker, not throw off my wrong foot.  One of the easiest and quickest flaws to fix.

[JoJoTownsell1]

19 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Fairy-tale. You can't fix your mechanics without facing any opposition. The slightest of pressure from an NFL defender (notice how I said NFL defender) and these fixed mechanics revert back to their old self. Fixed mechanics? Not by a long mile! Worked on his mechanics? That I can believe.

Its like this:

First Guy - Hey guys, I just put a turbo engine in my Kia Soul that can now do 0-60 in under 3 seconds
Second Guy - Have you tested it?
First Guy - No
Third Guy - Lol this is awesome. Not a single test run yet and he can apparently do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. 
Fourth Guy - Just because he hasn't tested it yet, doesn't mean he can't do 0-60 in 3 secs. 
Third Guy - Yeah, well can we at least test it out before we make those claims?

You're using Tomshane logic. No one is saying Hack is a stud because he fixed his mechanics. We're just saying that improved mechanics in camp is far better than crappy mechanics in camp. Of course, he could implode when he faces a real defense. You aren't breaking any news with that theory. 
Honestly, why are you even opening threads about how players are doing in Camp when it's all meaningless until they play real games? You should be bashing every positive report that comes out in camp about every players based on your logic. 

Report: Adams looks good camp

J4Jets: Um, I'll believe it when i see it in a real game

 

Report: ASJ looks good in camp

J4Jets: Um, I'll believe it when i see it in a real game. 

[j4jets]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You mean when Geno was playing lights out and then had his jaw broken so we never got to see it translate to a real game?  Until he actually got into one and player well, better than Fitz?

Not getting into the Geno vs Fitz debate. We're on the same team in that regard. Hated Fitz from the getgo. 

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually getting hit would lead me to get rid of the ball quicker, not throw off my wrong foot.  One of the easiest and quickest flaws to fix.

So I've heard. 

[j4jets]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You're using Tomshane logic. No one is saying Hack is a stud because he fixed his mechanics. We're just saying that improved mechanics in camp is far better than crappy mechanics in camp. Of course, he could implode when he faces a real defense. You aren't breaking any news with that theory. 
Honestly, why are you even opening threads about how players are doing in Camp when it's all meaningless until they play real games? You should be bashing every positive report that comes out in camp about every players based on your logic. 

I feel insulted being compared to @TomShane 

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Report: Adams looks good camp

J4Jets: Um, I'll believe it when i see it in a real game

Except Adams wasn't redshirted in a season we would've benefited from sucking. 

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Report: ASJ looks good in camp

J4Jets: Um, I'll believe it when i see it in a real game. 

Remember when Jeff Cumberland was going to become a monster and Quinton Coples was on the verge of a breakout year? So yeah, I'll believe it when I see it with players who have a proven record of sucking ala Fitz. 

[56mehl56]

45 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Except he sucked so bad last year that even he couldn't get a single snap in a year the team lost 11 games with two of its QBs injured. So maybe there's something to it? 

Did he suck or did the offensive coaches suck. Statements from Gailey seemed to indicate that the CS had no urgency to work with Hack during the season.  So some of the blame has to be placed there.

[j4jets]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Did he suck or did the offensive coaches suck. Statements from Gailey seemed to indicate that the CS had no urgency to work with Hack during the season.  So some of the blame has to be placed there.

He still sucked, hence zero urgency. 

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Remember when Jeff Cumberland was going to become a monster and Quinton Coples was on the verge of a breakout year? So yeah, I'll believe it when I see it with players who have a proven record of sucking ala Fitz. 

Dont ever remember Jeff Cumberland being hailed as a monster in the making or even Coples other than him being really athletic and a real Rex Ryan pick.

Neither of which have anything to do with Hacks improved footwork and camp 

[win4ever]

Look at the horrible footwork from Hackenberg in drills.

I don't think anyone is enshrining him into Canton right now, but he looks to be much improved.   

[thadude]

13 hours ago, j4jets said:

Lol this is awesome. Not a single NFL rep and he's apparently fixed his mechanics. Btw is he able to hit the ocean yet?

Depends - Pacific or Atlantic?

[jack48]

A couple of blows to the melon can give a guy happy feet

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Look at the horrible footwork from Hackenberg in drills.

I don't think anyone is enshrining him into Canton right now, but he looks to be much improved.   

This was last season....

[win4ever]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

This was last season....

Yes, it's to highlight improvement from last year to this year, even in drills.  

[BigRy56]

Hack's improved footwork has him throwing gems all over the field

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Yes, it's to highlight improvement from last year to this year, even in drills.  

Ok misunderstood because he has improved a lot so far from what I've seen. 

[win4ever]

Ok misunderstood because he has improved a lot so far from what I've seen. 

Yeah, it's much more consistent this year, which should help his accuracy.

[nicg4360]

Got to love those comments..."I don't care how much Hack has improved I remember when he sucked in college...." Get over it.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok misunderstood because he has improved a lot so far from what I've seen. 

Can't get much worse......  ad lib courtesy of John Lennon. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Can't get much worse......  ad lib courtesy of John Lennon. 

Never watched Tebow Im guessing

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Never watched Tebow Im guessing

Im actually thinking about Peyton and Brady, guys who dont from a quick look appear to have great feet.

All the QB's in D1, 4-5 get drafted each year with any fanfare and we havent really seen more than 1 per year become solid.

Its really a mind boggling stat. I think its more than feet.

 

[BigO]

On 7/30/2017 at 8:33 PM, johnnysd said:

The #1 biggest knock against Hack coming out was pretty much that his footwork was awful, and that led to terrible accuracy, and was incredibly hard to fix so BUST.

Yet, I have not seen a SINGLE report mention anything about footwork at all, meaning it much be fixed or pretty close to FIXED.

In fact, the only knock so far has been he "holds on to the ball too long", but sprinkled in there have been numerous reports of him being "decisive".

The "holding" criticism is probably #1 for ALL young QBs, so if that is the knock, then this is an awesome sign.

Factor in the fact that that he has elite characteristics everywhere else: size, arm strength, intelligence, work ethic and bloodlines, and we could have a guy that could be THE guy. If the footwork is fixed, that is an incredible accomplishment  for Hack and will lead to better accuracy.

Now he just needs as many reps as possible to continue the development and build chemistry, but you know, Bowles. Hopefully Morton and Bates are in the Hack camp and let Bowles know he needs to commit to Hack. 

As Bill Polian and Pat Kirwan both have said: Every rep McClown gets is a rep that Hack does not get.

Make him #1 now, give him 75% of the reps and if he completely falls on his face go with Petty or McClown (who will be exactly the same dull turd of a QB with 50% of the reps or 5%) he's freaking 39. Vinny T. literally got off the couch on a WEDNESDAY  signed with Carolina had 3 practices and WON on Sunday. McClown does not need reps. Petty and Hack do.

 

 

 

When Hack masters hopscotch I'll be convinced his footwork has improved. 

[Pcola]

I think that some of the positivity with Hack is due to him having probably the lowest expectations of any QB the Jets have ever drafted. 

That said, everyone can acknowledge the improvements he has made.  Heck last year they had him practicing on the far field so no one could really see how dreadful he was.

Despite his improvements and good showing against a pretty good good Jets D, it's still camp.  We haven't even got to see him in preseason.  And ever since Browning Nagle looked like John Elway the summer of 92, preseason doesn't mean anything.

Anyway, I wrote him off last year and I am pleased that he so far is proving me wrong.  Get McCown the hell out of the way.  This FO bet their jobs on this guy, let's see what he has.

[Scott Dierking]

17 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I think that some of the positivity with Hack is due to him having probably the lowest expectations of any QB the Jets have ever drafted

Odd, it seems to me that the expectations of Hack were similar to a qb drafted in the 2nd round, which are very high. Thus, the scrutiny. 

That statement seems to fly in the face of what has actually happened.

[Pcola]

25 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Odd, it seems to me that the expectations of Hack were similar to a qb drafted in the 2nd round, which are very high. Thus, the scrutiny. 

That statement seems to fly in the face of what has actually happened.

Hack's potential may have been high after the draft last season.  But the entire NFL base thinks the Jets have the worst QB situation by far right now.  When the expectations are for you to win 1 game or less, I can't see how they could be any lower.  And just for clarity, our defense isn't going to be the issue.  In fact, one could argue that our RBs are pretty good and while our OL, TEs, and WRs and probably average, they are not the worst units in the league.  It's our QB situation.  Many think McCown will start and be beyond terrible.  That the consensus is that it would be a surprise if Hack beats him out tells you all you need to know about his expectations.

Look at it, we are so desperate for average QB play, that Jets fans are ooohing and aaaahing every time he completes a pass.  I've been watching the team since the 70's and I have never seen anything like it.  I don't image Cleveland did this last year for Kessler.

 

[jeremy2020]

I remember every camp how much geno had improved.

[Scott Dierking]

32 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Hack's potential may have been high after the draft last season.  But the entire NFL base thinks the Jets have the worst QB situation by far right now.  When the expectations are for you to win 1 game or less, I can't see how they could be any lower.  And just for clarity, our defense isn't going to be the issue.  In fact, one could argue that our RBs are pretty good and while our OL, TEs, and WRs and probably average, they are not the worst units in the league.  It's our QB situation.  Many think McCown will start and be beyond terrible.  That the consensus is that it would be a surprise if Hack beats him out tells you all you need to know about his expectations.

Look at it, we are so desperate for average QB play, that Jets fans are ooohing and aaaahing every time he completes a pass.  I've been watching the team since the 70's and I have never seen anything like it.  I don't image Cleveland did this last year for Kessler.

 

You are all over the board.

Hack's "potential" has never changed. Potential is an engrained quality. It is a cap on what a person or an athlete can achieve. Of course, that does not mean that it will in fact be achieved. 

Expectations are a projection that people place on an athlete, based on what they have personally witnessed, or in a very subjective way forecast. The Jets put very high expectations on Hack by drafting him in the 2nd round. That is the way of the NFL. The expectations would have been much less if say he was drafted in the 5th round. Fans expect, and rightly so, that an athlete meet expectations of where they were drafted in relation to peers. Again, expectations.

Everything else you have written basically is fodder attempting to disguise your confusion of potential vs expectation.

Going back to your original premise, if expectations of Hack were "the lowest of any qb they ever drafted", then I would say that flies in the face of the scrutiny he has received. Why scrutinize a player if there are zero expectations? Makes no sense.

 

[Pcola]

48 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You are all over the board.

Hack's "potential" has never changed. Potential is an engrained quality. It is a cap on what a person or an athlete can achieve. Of course, that does not mean that it will in fact be achieved. 

Expectations are a projection that people place on an athlete, based on what they have personally witnessed, or in a very subjective way forecast. The Jets put very high expectations on Hack by drafting him in the 2nd round. That is the way of the NFL. The expectations would have been much less if say he was drafted in the 5th round. Fans expect, and rightly so, that an athlete meet expectations of where they were drafted in relation to peers. Again, expectations.

Everything else you have written basically is fodder attempting to disguise your confusion of potential vs expectation.

Going back to your original premise, if expectations of Hack were "the lowest of any qb they ever drafted", then I would say that flies in the face of the scrutiny he has received. Why scrutinize a player if there are zero expectations? Makes no sense.

 

First, you are talking about Hacks expectations from 2016.  I am referring to his expectations coming into camp, 2017.  A rational person's expectation of Hack is basically nothing.  After watching him in college regress his last two seasons, and then what he he showed last year, anyone having any kind of expectation for him with this roster is either related to him or a blind homer with no common sense.  However, having no expectations does not mean having no hope.

That said, if the FO really thought Hack had any kind of potential, why would they get rid of the top two WRs and Mangold? Why would they not spend a little of the Cap $$ they have to at least get someone that can help him survive all the adversity he's going to face?

And as far as I can tell, most of the scrutiny for Hack is on Macc and the FO.  There is a consensus that he was overdrafted.  Not his fault he was a 7th rounder that got drafted at 51.  I've never had any issues with Hack.  Macc set him up to fail by taking him so early when we have no viable starter to hold the job while he gets three years to develop.