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Hack's Footwork


JohnnyLV

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12 minutes ago, Pcola said:

First, you are talking about Hacks expectations from 2016.  I am referring to his expectations coming into camp, 2017.  A rational person's expectation of Hack is basically nothing.  After watching him in college regress his last two seasons, and then what he he showed last year, anyone having any kind of expectation for him with this roster is either related to him or a blind homer with no common sense.  However, having no expectations does not mean having no hope.

That said, if the FO really thought Hack had any kind of potential, why would they get rid of the top two WRs and Mangold? Why would they not spend a little of the Cap $$ they have to at least get someone that can help him survive all the adversity he's going to face?

And as far as I can tell, most of the scrutiny for Hack is on Macc and the FO.  There is a consensus that he was overdrafted.  Not his fault he was a 7th rounder that got drafted at 51.  I've never had any issues with Hack.  Macc set him up to fail by taking him so early when we have no viable starter to hold the job while he gets three years to develop.

Maybe because they are trying to develop all the young wide outs they've drafted and are confident they can evolve into more than what Decker would give this team in a year or two. Plus Mangold is still unemployed so losing him isn't necessarily a negative. 

 

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Maybe because they are trying to develop all the young wide outs they've drafted and are confident they can evolve into more than what Decker would give this team in a year or two. Plus Mangold is still unemployed so losing him isn't necessarily a negative. 
 

Agreed,. Mangold had injuries sidelining him throughout the year and was average at best when playing. Our WR that would have helped Hack....hmm Marshall dropped alot of passes and checked out half way through last season because his heart wasn't in it...could you imagine the drama with what the W/L record this season. Decker was the only WR worth having around and was coming back from significant injuries (for a WR). I don't see where the big loss is.

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1 hour ago, Pcola said:

 

That said, if the FO really thought Hack had any kind of potential, why would they get rid of the top two WRs and Mangold? Why would they not spend a little of the Cap $$ they have to at least get someone that can help him survive all the adversity he's going to face?

Marshall Decker and Mangold were released to change the culture and the locker room team dynamic as much as for their declining ability. Along with Fitzloser this clique tore the team apart last year and it would have been worse this year. They would have actively divided the team on the QB situation, and have exactly the wrong personalities for a young, developing team. You can see this in the new philosophy the Jets have adopted this year (the correct one IMO) in emphasizing family and team and from a coaching standpoint teaching and player development. I still have very grace concerns about Bowles himself, but outside of that I see the Jets doing all the right things, and cutting the veterans was CRITICAL to the success of rebuilding this team.

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9 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Marshall Decker and Mangold were released to change the culture and the locker room team dynamic as much as for their declining ability. Along with Fitzloser this clique tore the team apart last year and it would have been worse this year. They would have actively divided the team on the QB situation, and have exactly the wrong personalities for a young, developing team. You can see this in the new philosophy the Jets have adopted this year (the correct one IMO) in emphasizing family and team and from a coaching standpoint teaching and player development. I still have very grace concerns about Bowles himself, but outside of that I see the Jets doing all the right things, and cutting the veterans was CRITICAL to the success of rebuilding this team.

If they released them to change the culture then how do you still have Wilk and Richardson still here?  

I agree that changing the culture was paramount for this team going forward but the two biggest issues were with guys that due to talent, age, and/or contract were not going anywhere.  

IMO, getting rid of Marshall and Decker to develop the young WRs is very short sighted if the FO had any faith in Hack.  First, developing your QB is the ONLY necessity in today's NFL.  So surrounding your QB with as much talent as possible should have taken priority over developing young receivers.  In fact, without elite talent at either QB or WR, what other team has had success developing them both at the same time?

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Just now, Pcola said:

If they released them to change the culture then how do you still have Wilk and Richardson still here?  

I agree that changing the culture was paramount for this team going forward but the two biggest issues were with guys that due to talent, age, and/or contract were not going anywhere.  

IMO, getting rid of Marshall and Decker to develop the young WRs is very short sighted if the FO had any faith in Hack.  First, developing your QB is the ONLY necessity in today's NFL.  So surrounding your QB with as much talent as possible should have taken priority over developing young receivers.  In fact, without elite talent at either QB or WR, what other team has had success developing them both at the same time?

Hmmm....I have thought...maybe the team is on the tank?

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6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Im actually thinking about Peyton and Brady, guys who dont from a quick look appear to have great feet.

All the QB's in D1, 4-5 get drafted each year with any fanfare and we havent really seen more than 1 per year become solid.

Its really a mind boggling stat. I think its more than feet.

 

Totally agree, its more than footwork.  Footwork can make you more consistent and a little more accurate but Brady has had his mechanics tweeked and when was he bad?

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28 minutes ago, peebag said:

Hmmm....I have thought...maybe the team is on the tank?

I guess the earlier debate was whether anyone from the FO to the fans had any confidence in Hack.  Teams don't tank while developing a young QB.  They tank because they don't have one.

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1 hour ago, Pcola said:

If they released them to change the culture then how do you still have Wilk and Richardson still here?  

I agree that changing the culture was paramount for this team going forward but the two biggest issues were with guys that due to talent, age, and/or contract were not going anywhere.  

IMO, getting rid of Marshall and Decker to develop the young WRs is very short sighted if the FO had any faith in Hack.  First, developing your QB is the ONLY necessity in today's NFL.  So surrounding your QB with as much talent as possible should have taken priority over developing young receivers.  In fact, without elite talent at either QB or WR, what other team has had success developing them both at the same time?

Mo and Wilk were issues, but different than the clique of Mangold, Fitz, Marshall and Decker. They are team destroyers for a young building team. Glad they are gone. I don't really expect Decker to stay healthy anyway. There is also something to be said for a young guy to be surrounded by other young guys. With a veteran, they can look to go to that guy almost exclusively whereas Hack will have a bunch of young, talented guys he can grow with. Plus I think we will roll with 21 personnel a lot which will offer a bit of a safety blanket for Hack and three potential outlet receivers.

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33 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I guess the earlier debate was whether anyone from the FO to the fans had any confidence in Hack.  Teams don't tank while developing a young QB.  They tank because they don't have one.

Exactly how are the Jets going to be measurably better next year when they supposedly have the new messiah at qb? You are reaching. 

Teams evolve, build and develop differently. There is not a blueprint of how it is done. Not that simple.

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The Jets are NOT tanking. Please stop saying it. Even taking the chemistry part out of the equation, EVERY single move was justified even almost necessary based on skill level and salary hit. Every one. In fact, they were obvious. Even Polian, who thinks the Browns DID tank, says that you cannot argue with the moves the Jets made, so there is no tank. It is a rebuild. If Hack actually can play, which the signs are positive so far, we could actually be competitive I think. I am very impressed with what I am hearing of our new coaches. Seems to be an emphasis on teaching and development.

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Just now, johnnysd said:

The Jets are NOT tanking. Please stop saying it. Even taking the chemistry part out of the equation, EVERY single move was justified even almost necessary based on skill level and salary hit. Every one. In fact, they were obvious. Even Polian, who thinks the Browns DID tank, says that you cannot argue with the moves the Jets made, so there is no tank. It is a rebuild. If Hack actually can play, which the signs are positive so far, we could actually be competitive I think. I am very impressed with what I am hearing of our new coaches. Seems to be an emphasis on teaching and development.

Not being able to argue with the cuts?  Sure.  What about the talent or lack thereof brought in at edge rusher, WR, CB, LT, and QB?  Does that scream competitive to you? 

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13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not being able to argue with the cuts?  Sure.  What about the talent or lack thereof brought in at edge rusher, WR, CB, LT, and QB?  Does that scream competitive to you? 

Who did you want them to bring in at those positions? 

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26 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Who did you want them to bring in at those positions? 

Exactly! This crap, they didn't bring anyone in is so freaking stupid. They went to rebuild mode, in that case you try to develop your draft picks (they have Enunwa, Robbie Anderson flashed & they drafted Stewart & Hansen. They drafted a TE in Leggett & ASJ seems to be doing well.

They signed Claiborne at CB, Burriss flashed & they drafted 2 top safeties & QB? we've been trying since Namath so lets put this all on Mac,lol.

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2 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Who did you want them to bring in at those positions? 

 

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Exactly! This crap, they didn't bring anyone in is so freaking stupid. They went to rebuild mode, in that case you try to develop your draft picks (they have Enunwa, Robbie Anderson flashed & they drafted Stewart & Hansen. They drafted a TE in Leggett & ASJ seems to be doing well.

They signed Claiborne at CB, Burriss flashed & they drafted 2 top safeties & QB? we've been trying since Namath so lets put this all on Mac,lol.

Look, I'm not one of those guys bashing the current direction, but to act like we can't complain?  Give me a ******* break.  They spent a lot of money at LT and RG and have Winters, Iljalana and Beachum.  The two LT prospects are sketchy at best.  If they think Wesley Johnson is a legitimate center, why is he on a 1-year deal?  If he is not, why is Jonotthan Harrison all they brought in?  Claiborne could be a nice pick up but he is very much an injury concern.  They could have kept Decker which would give them at least one WR that we know is okay, but with the dead money down to $1.5M I guess it made sense even if the "If we cannot facilitate a trade we will move on from Eric" didn't.  

Burris showing flashes is not that impressive.  He barely played and the secondary was in a shambles all year.  To give you an idea, Darryl Roberts played 100 snaps more than he did.  Marcus Williams who was bad all year played like double.  They signed a QB.  He is 37 years old and his record is the kind of thing that makes Fitzpatrick's agent drool.  

OLB?  Mauldin lost weight?  Last year he gained it.  Jenkins was okay, but unimpressive.  Right now we are hearing about Corey Lemonier and Spencer Paysinger (a nice guy by the way), think about that. 

I get that they are rebuilding, but until some of these young players pan out, they are just sh*tty players.  S*tty players are how you tank. The GM and staff should know which they are, but for us it is there to argue.  

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43 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Look, I'm not one of those guys bashing the current direction, but to act like we can't complain?  Give me a ******* break.  They spent a lot of money at LT and RG and have Winters, Iljalana and Beachum.  The two LT prospects are sketchy at best.  If they think Wesley Johnson is a legitimate center, why is he on a 1-year deal?  If he is not, why is Jonotthan Harrison all they brought in?  Claiborne could be a nice pick up but he is very much an injury concern.  They could have kept Decker which would give them at least one WR that we know is okay, but with the dead money down to $1.5M I guess it made sense even if the "If we cannot facilitate a trade we will move on from Eric" didn't.  

Burris showing flashes is not that impressive.  He barely played and the secondary was in a shambles all year.  To give you an idea, Darryl Roberts played 100 snaps more than he did.  Marcus Williams who was bad all year played like double.  They signed a QB.  He is 37 years old and his record is the kind of thing that makes Fitzpatrick's agent drool.  

OLB?  Mauldin lost weight?  Last year he gained it.  Jenkins was okay, but unimpressive.  Right now we are hearing about Corey Lemonier and Spencer Paysinger (a nice guy by the way), think about that. 

I get that they are rebuilding, but until some of these young players pan out, they are just sh*tty players.  S*tty players are how you tank. The GM and staff should know which they are, but for us it is there to argue.  

All I know is when the Rangers were forced to build a team after the lockout it worked. The current Yankees are another example. I know we're going to suck, but it's a rebuild, I'm ok with that. I just feel like some of the shoulda coulda crowd shake their fists at God when it rains. 

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11 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

All I know is when the Rangers were forced to build a team after the lockout it worked. The current Yankees are another example. I know we're going to suck, but it's a rebuild, I'm ok with that. I just feel like some of the shoulda coulda crowd shake their fists at God when it rains. 

Rebuilds work when you have talented young players which the Yankees do since Stick Michael stocked their minor league

 

the jets are stuck with duds Mac drafted and Josh McCown and Matt Forte

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28 minutes ago, thadude said:

Rebuilds work when you have talented young players which the Yankees do since Stick Michael stocked their minor league

 

the jets are stuck with duds Mac drafted and Josh McCown and Matt Forte

 

The Yankees traded away plenty of young talent in the 00's. This current team is supposed to be 4th in the division. This isn't the Gene Micheal crew anymore, not by a long shot. 

 

 

Can we see how guys he's drafted work out first? He's had 2 years. 2. I don't have an issue with Forte if he's used correctly. 

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When Seattle rebuilt it took a few years for guys to come into their own. We talked about the lack of leadership on this team last year, so let's see who steps up. I think Adams, Williams, Lee, can be leaders (that's 1 guy at each level of the defense). On offense it's gonna have to be Hackenberg so we all need to pray that he does in fact progress & turn into THE MAN! I have no idea how good these young offensive players will be but if Hack develops some of them will too. Enunwa is a tweener physical #2 WR. So let's see how these other higher picks do. Stewart, Hansen, Leggett, ASJ, Harper, Anderson. This group already gives me higher hopes than Gates, Hill, and anyone else we threw out there in when Geno was bumbling & stumbling.

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7 hours ago, Jetster said:

When Seattle rebuilt it took a few years for guys to come into their own.

It took 2 years and one of them involved draft Russel Wilson and watching him become an elite QB in his rookie season whule the Mac and Hack Excuse Army Drone On about the "Plan"

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35 minutes ago, thadude said:

It took 2 years and one of them involved draft Russel Wilson and watching him become an elite QB in his rookie season whule the Mac and Hack Excuse Army Drone On about the "Plan"

cue: "...and then there was Bradway, allegedly pounding his fist on the table argung for Wilson at some unknown point before the seahawks 3rd round pick.  But Tanny honored Rex's promise and drafted Coples in rd 1 and then Tanny, "brilliant" talent evaluator got his way with Stephen Hill in rd 2. That must have been when Bradway was screaming for Wilson.  Then the Jets picked Demario Davis 2 picks after Seattle took Wilson in round 3.  Fk them all.  Hitting on QB selections is arguably the most important talent evaluation skill a GM must have.  Without that, a GM can never be considered a real success in the NFL today.  Mac is so far 0-2.  Maybe.

2012..  a top 5 all time bad NY Jets draft.

1-2-3 Seattle: Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson

1-2-3 Jets: Quenton Coples, Stephen Hill, Demario Davis.

A defining moment.  Changing the trajectory of both teams. 

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16 hours ago, Dcat said:

cue: "...and then there was Bradway, allegedly pounding his fist on the table argung for Wilson at some unknown point before the seahawks 3rd round pick.  But Tanny honored Rex's promise and drafted Coples in rd 1 and then Tanny, "brilliant" talent evaluator got his way with Stephen Hill in rd 2. That must have been when Bradway was screaming for Wilson.  Then the Jets picked Demario Davis 2 picks after Seattle took Wilson in round 3.  Fk them all.  Hitting on QB selections is arguably the most important talent evaluation skill a GM must have.  Without that, a GM can never be considered a real success in the NFL today.  Mac is so far 0-2.  Maybe.

2012..  a top 5 all time bad NY Jets draft.

1-2-3 Seattle: Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson

1-2-3 Jets: Quenton Coples, Stephen Hill, Demario Davis.

A defining moment.  Changing the trajectory of both teams. 

Basically in 2 drafts '11 and '12 Seattle built a team that won 1 super bowl, should have won a 2nd and can still win more

 

But Mac needs like 10 years to rebuild

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On 8/1/2017 at 11:43 AM, southparkcpa said:

Im actually thinking about Peyton and Brady, guys who dont from a quick look appear to have great feet.

They both have great footwork.  Brady in particular in his younger years could slide around the pocket about as well as any QB ever has.  Both of those guys are almost always throwing balls in full balance, which is a sign of great footwork.  I'd say they were superior footwork wise to qbs that were traditionally viewed as mobile, like Vick or Wilson, both of whom would often throw balls while wrong footed, or falling backwards.  It's a different type of movement skill set, but ultimately  more important than just simply being able to run.  

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