Off Day Thoughts

[KRL]

- I believe Lucky Whitehead is leading at the return position.  But can he be
effective at the WR position?  Because I don't think this team can have too
many "one trick ponies".  He's getting reps there let's see what he does in
games

- Team speed on defense is finally no longer a problem.  We'll see if they
can perform effectively or if they'll just make high speed mistakes

- Has Demario Davis finally found a position where he can be effective?  So far
being the "enforcer" ILB seems to fit him.  He can concentrate on going forward
and being physical and not being in space

- Did the type of demanding coaches Bowles brought in contribute to the veteran
purge?  Because the way John Morton & Dennard Wilson can rip into players doesn't
go over well with a 10 year vet

- Coming off a 5-11 season and the "big name" purge has led to low expectations.
But people should keep in mind that name recognition and talent are not synonymous.
Perfect example is Revis and Morris Claiborne, there's no doubt who has the bigger
name and better career.  But there is also no doubt who is the more talented player
right now

[KRL]

- I don't want him to start, but as a team leader and someone who likes to
encourage and unite Josh McCown has been excellent.  Always upbeat and looking
to raise the level of practice for both sides of the ball

[BCJet]

I think you make an excellent point about Demario and I said this when we traded for him, he is playing a COMPLETELY different position then he did the first time here.

Harris was always the "slower" run stopping ILB in this defense, with Davis playing more of a "weak-side/coverage type" ILB spot.  Well now we have Darron Lee in that coverage type spot, which fits him much better then playing as a true inside LB, with Davis simply being asked to plug the run between the tackles.  In this role, Davis is actually more athletic then Harris and should be put in less 1-1 coverage situations.  Also, for whatever shortcomings he may have as a player, he is another upgrade in accountability and work ethic over someone like Pryor who by all accounts was late to meetings and had no accountability.  

Seems like a solid move to give Demario a shot at this LB spot on a one year deal.

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, KRL said:

- I believe Lucky Whitehead is leading at the return position.  But can he be
effective at the WR position?  Because I don't think this team can have too
many "one trick ponies".  He's getting reps there let's see what he does in
games

- Team speed on defense is finally no longer a problem.  We'll see if they
can perform effectively or if they'll just make high speed mistakes

- Has Demario Davis finally found a position where he can be effective?  So far
being the "enforcer" ILB seems to fit him.  He can concentrate on going forward
and being physical and not being in space

- Did the type of demanding coaches Bowles brought in contribute to the veteran
purge?  Because the way John Morton & Dennard Wilson can rip into players doesn't
go over well with a 10 year vet

- Coming off a 5-11 season and the "big name" purge has led to low expectations.
But people should keep in mind that name recognition and talent are not synonymous.
Perfect example is Revis and Morris Claiborne, there's no doubt who has the bigger
name and better career.  But there is also no doubt who is the more talented player
right now

You have this way of actually promoting optimism with opinions based on fact and observation. As opposed to green Kool aid and pixie dust. Thanks. 

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You have this way of actually promoting optimism with opinions based on fact and observation. As opposed to green Kool aid and pixie dust. Thanks. 

Yea, but pixie dust can make you fly - so eff you, tubby two tons.

[whodeawhodat]

Davis reminds me of what Bart Scott was brought in here for.  Hopefully he can stay healthy and lay the wood.

[LIJetsFan]

16 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I think you make an excellent point about Demario and I said this when we traded for him, he is playing a COMPLETELY different position then he did the first time here.

Harris was always the "slower" run stopping ILB in this defense, with Davis playing more of a "weak-side/coverage type" ILB spot.  Well now we have Darron Lee in that coverage type spot, which fits him much better then playing as a true inside LB, with Davis simply being asked to plug the run between the tackles.  In this role, Davis is actually more athletic then Harris and should be put in less 1-1 coverage situations.  Also, for whatever shortcomings he may have as a player, he is another upgrade in accountability and work ethic over someone like Pryor who by all accounts was late to meetings and had no accountability.  

Seems like a solid move to give Demario a shot at this LB spot on a one year deal.

I had the impression that DD's contract was out of line with his ability.  Did Mac renegotiate?  

[ChuckkieB]

The defense will be much improved this year and even if we put out a tomato can as our QB, this team is going to find a way to win 5-6 games and dreams of a top shelf QB prospect will turn to dust.

[BCJet]

Just now, LIJetsFan said:

I had the impression that DD's contract was out of line with his ability.  Did Mac renegotiate?  

Yes it was re-done.  It looks like its now $1 million for 2017 and $900K for 2018 but not sure about the 2018 numbers

[drsamuel84]

30 minutes ago, KRL said:

- I believe Lucky Whitehead is leading at the return position.  But can he be
effective at the WR position?  Because I don't think this team can have too
many "one trick ponies".  He's getting reps there let's see what he does in
games

- Team speed on defense is finally no longer a problem.  We'll see if they
can perform effectively or if they'll just make high speed mistakes

- Has Demario Davis finally found a position where he can be effective?  So far
being the "enforcer" ILB seems to fit him.  He can concentrate on going forward
and being physical and not being in space

- Did the type of demanding coaches Bowles brought in contribute to the veteran
purge?  Because the way John Morton & Dennard Wilson can rip into players doesn't
go over well with a 10 year vet

- Coming off a 5-11 season and the "big name" purge has led to low expectations.
But people should keep in mind that name recognition and talent are not synonymous.
Perfect example is Revis and Morris Claiborne, there's no doubt who has the bigger
name and better career.  But there is also no doubt who is the more talented player
right now

Interesting point about the "veteran purge".   Obviously a big part of it is the Jets trying to get younger and faster and give the young guys more playing time but another part of it that's becoming more and more evident is the idea of a culture change.    That's not to say all these guys were bad locker cancers but I think there was a little a bit of the "inmates running the asylum" culture with the vets and Bowles and Macc are as much to blame for that as anyone.  Just look at the whole Fitz situation last year and how vocal the vets were about wanting him back.  Bottom line, there's a lot more to the veteran purge than just trying to get younger and save money.  I think culture change and establishing new locker room leaders was a huge part.

[LIJetsFan]

Just now, BCJet said:

Yes it was re-done.  It looks like its now $1 million for 2017 and $900K for 2018 but not sure about the 2018 numbers

Great, thanks for the update.  Good move by Mac!

[The Crusher]

14 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yea, but pixie dust can make you fly - so eff you, tubby two tons.

Yes. I have loss weight. Thanks for noticing. 

[Gas2No99]

51 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes. I have loss weight. Thanks for noticing. 

Speaking of weight . . . . . 

 

Robby Anderson - WR -  Jets

Robby Anderson is up to 180 pounds and wants to play at 185 this season.

Anderson weighed 187 at Temple's Pro Day last year, but he admitted he played his rookie season around 170. The added weight shouldn't be a problem after Anderson blazed a 4.36 forty at his pro day. Anderson is being counted on to be a playmaker for an offense that lacks those types. He's vying for the No. 2 WR job.

 

 

Source: New York Post 

Aug 2 - 9:06 AM

[nycdan]

Also speaking of weight...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/08/jared-lorenzen-hefty-lefty-new-york-giants-500-pounds-project-lose-weight-videos

QB sneak with a 500 lb. Quarterback, anyone? 

[JohnnyLV]

My concern after listening to Bowles on SiriusXM yesterday is that he is clearly behind McCown at this point. Kirwan got Bowles to open up more about the QB competition and although he said largely the same "it will work itself out" rhetoric he also said that field performance is not the only criteria and then listed off several things that pretty much any veteran QB would have over Hack and Petty. I get the feeling we may be looking at the QB competition upside down with Bowles, in that I think that Hack cannot really "win" the QB competition because even if he outplays McClown, Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent. For Hack to actually start I think that in Bowles mind not only does Hack have to win it, but because of the other veteran factors he values at QB, McClown will actually have to fall on his face in the preseason and preseason games. Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

On the QB competition, a couple of the players seemed to favor Petty over the other 2 which I thought was interesting, especially Sheldon who clearly thinks Petty should start.

W

 

[nycdan]

I think Sheldon figured out that backing a particular QB in preseason is your ticket out of Dodge.  

[Lil Woody]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

 Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

Of course he is. He is worried about his job and will take zero steps to help the franchise move towards achieving its' long term goals so the next HC can find success.  

This is why you have a HC report directly to a GM.

[varjet]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

My concern after listening to Bowles on SiriusXM yesterday is that he is clearly behind McCown at this point. Kirwan got Bowles to open up more about the QB competition and although he said largely the same "it will work itself out" rhetoric he also said that field performance is not the only criteria and then listed off several things that pretty much any veteran QB would have over Hack and Petty. I get the feeling we may be looking at the QB competition upside down with Bowles, in that I think that Hack cannot really "win" the QB competition because even if he outplays McClown, Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent. For Hack to actually start I think that in Bowles mind not only does Hack have to win it, but because of the other veteran factors he values at QB, McClown will actually have to fall on his face in the preseason and preseason games. Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

On the QB competition, a couple of the players seemed to favor Petty over the other 2 which I thought was interesting, especially Sheldon who clearly thinks Petty should start.

There is alot of risk for Hack to start and fall on his face.  Hack could use the extra month+ of practice.  McCown will fail or get injured, and then Hack can come in.

This is all on the assumption that the Jets are not a playoff team, which I think is true.  To build for the long-term future, let Hack gestate more and then have him play the last half of the year, after McCown as booked 5+ losses.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I think you make an excellent point about Demario and I said this when we traded for him, he is playing a COMPLETELY different position then he did the first time here.

Harris was always the "slower" run stopping ILB in this defense, with Davis playing more of a "weak-side/coverage type" ILB spot.  Well now we have Darron Lee in that coverage type spot, which fits him much better then playing as a true inside LB, with Davis simply being asked to plug the run between the tackles.  In this role, Davis is actually more athletic then Harris and should be put in less 1-1 coverage situations.  Also, for whatever shortcomings he may have as a player, he is another upgrade in accountability and work ethic over someone like Pryor who by all accounts was late to meetings and had no accountability.  

Seems like a solid move to give Demario a shot at this LB spot on a one year deal.

Agree. I said it too after the trade that I just didn't think Davis complimented Harris (and vice versa)...Seems Davis w/Lee has a better chance to work

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

There is alot of risk for Hack to start and fall on his face.  Hack could use the extra month+ of practice.  McCown will fail or get injured, and then Hack can come in.

This is all on the assumption that the Jets are not a playoff team, which I think is true.  To build for the long-term future, let Hack gestate more and then have him play the last half of the year, after McCown as booked 5+ losses.

Not disagreeing with this.  But here's what  I can't reconcile

We're saying Hack, in his second year, isn't ready to start games.  But Winston, Mariota, Carr and Wentz were all good enough to do it in their rookie years (I'm not gonna include Dak because that was forced on DAL by injury).  We've also seen Wilson, Luck and Dalton all do it.  Sure, they all had their rookie issues, but they got 16 games of starting experience in their first season. 

 

So are we then saying that Hack just isn't as good as any of these guys? Or are we saying that Bowles is more conservative than any of those coaches?  Or is there a third answer I'm missing?  

 

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Agree. I said it too after the trade that I just didn't think Davis complimented Harris (and vice versa)...Seems Davis w/Lee has a better chance to work

Davis and Lee.  Yes, because that worked out so well in the Civil War

 

 

[Gas2No99]

10 hours ago, nycdan said:

Not disagreeing with this.  But here's what  I can't reconcile

We're saying Hack, in his second year, isn't ready to start games.  But Winston, Mariota, Carr and Wentz were all good enough to do it in their rookie years (I'm not gonna include Dak because that was forced on DAL by injury).  We've also seen Wilson, Luck and Dalton all do it.  Sure, they all had their rookie issues, but they got 16 games of starting experience in their first season. 

 

So are we then saying that Hack just isn't as good as any of these guys? Or are we saying that Bowles is more conservative than any of those coaches?  Or is there a third answer I'm missing?  

 

The QBs you mentioned played behind better OLines that had AT LEAST invested high round draft picks in protecting their newly declared young QB. Jets don't have that luxury, and it has been noted in practice how porous the OLine has been, so it makes more sense throwing out McCown to be eaten alive and let the OLine gel so by the 3rd -4th game Hack can come in behind a more acclimated OLine. Why get Hack killed behind a compromising OLine that is a patch work of healed up middle and late rounders, except for FA HEIST LG Carpenter? He'll come in by game 4 thru 6 ala Chad Penny in 2002.

[C Mart]

39 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

My concern after listening to Bowles on SiriusXM yesterday is that he is clearly behind McCown at this point. Kirwan got Bowles to open up more about the QB competition and although he said largely the same "it will work itself out" rhetoric he also said that field performance is not the only criteria and then listed off several things that pretty much any veteran QB would have over Hack and Petty. I get the feeling we may be looking at the QB competition upside down with Bowles, in that I think that Hack cannot really "win" the QB competition because even if he outplays McClown, Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent. For Hack to actually start I think that in Bowles mind not only does Hack have to win it, but because of the other veteran factors he values at QB, McClown will actually have to fall on his face in the preseason and preseason games. Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

On the QB competition, a couple of the players seemed to favor Petty over the other 2 which I thought was interesting, especially Sheldon who clearly thinks Petty should start.

W

 

JMO..I think it has to do w/Hack still learning Morton's system. Petty said it himself in the interview that this system puts everything on the QB..McCown knows the system so I would guess in meetings, on the blackboard McCown is far and away the leader..On the field he knows what to do quicker than the other 2..Once Hack and/or Petty get to the point where they aren't "thinking" about each play, the required protections, who to put in motion and when and should he kill out of the play and what to go to they'll be closer to being ready to start

What's the benefit of having a QB who isn't ready for the non-throwing part of the position be your starter? It's only harming the other 10 players lining up...

Based on all we've read Hack is further along w/pro concepts than Petty..They both have the physical capabilities. Hack will get his chance. It might not be week 1 but it won't be week 16 either..

As for Sheldon..He's not in QB meetings.. Sheldon should just concern himself w/doing HIS job. 

 

[C Mart]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Not disagreeing with this.  But here's what  I can't reconcile

We're saying Hack, in his second year, isn't ready to start games.  But Winston, Mariota, Carr and Wentz were all good enough to do it in their rookie years (I'm not gonna include Dak because that was forced on DAL by injury).  We've also seen Wilson, Luck and Dalton all do it.  Sure, they all had their rookie issues, but they got 16 games of starting experience in their first season. 

 

So are we then saying that Hack just isn't as good as any of these guys? Or are we saying that Bowles is more conservative than any of those coaches?  Or is there a third answer I'm missing?  

 

No. Hack said it himself...Let's all just sit back, be patient and see how the season plays out. 

"For Hackenberg, who considers himself "battle tested," the next challenge will be a welcome one; an attitude he thinks is a strength over his fellow quarterbacks entering the draft.

"A lot of guys that go through their college career where everything's great and they win, and they never really get punched in the mouth," he said. "Having been hit in the mouth multiple times, gotten back up, and continued to fight through is something I'll always take a lot of pride in."

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Not disagreeing with this.  But here's what  I can't reconcile

We're saying Hack, in his second year, isn't ready to start games.  But Winston, Mariota, Carr and Wentz were all good enough to do it in their rookie years (I'm not gonna include Dak because that was forced on DAL by injury).  We've also seen Wilson, Luck and Dalton all do it.  Sure, they all had their rookie issues, but they got 16 games of starting experience in their first season. 

 

So are we then saying that Hack just isn't as good as any of these guys? Or are we saying that Bowles is more conservative than any of those coaches?  Or is there a third answer I'm missing?  

 

Hack is a oddball story.  First round physical traits, First round potential freshman year, but really negative football experience sophomore and junior years.  Hack was a second round pick arguably overdrafted, because he needed more development.   QBs needing too much development tend not to be taken in the first or even second rounds.

So yes, Winston, Marrota and Wentz were better prospects.  The Raiders rolled the dice with Carr a bit-he needed development but was not broken.

Prescott was a fluke.  Can't explain that.

One could argue that Hack this year is where Carr was his first year.  Not a bad place.  But given McCown's deal, it just feels better for me to let him start the season and then let Hack show improvement and a younger look.  Yes, Hack could start game 1 and be another Prescott (and if it looks that way he should start), but if he is still showing shakiness in the pre-season (as opposed to McCown, who is not shaky, just bad), let McCown start the season.

[jpoppy717]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

There is alot of risk for Hack to start and fall on his face.  Hack could use the extra month+ of practice.  McCown will fail or get injured, and then Hack can come in.

This is all on the assumption that the Jets are not a playoff team, which I think is true.  To build for the long-term future, let Hack gestate more and then have him play the last half of the year, after McCown as booked 5+ losses.

I tend to think that best think for Hack to be prepared is to start week 1 if he is ready.  If he's not ready week 1 I don't think he'll be more ready week 5 after several weeks of getting very limited practice reps (because starting QB gets almost all the meaningful reps).  Put another way, I would think Hack would be better in week 5 with 4 games of starting and preparing to start, than he would be in week 5 after a month of barely getting reps and sitting on the bench.    

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

I had the impression that DD's contract was out of line with his ability.  Did Mac renegotiate?  

yes

[C Mart]

39 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Of course he is. He is worried about his job and will take zero steps to help the franchise move towards achieving its' long term goals so the next HC can find success.  

This is why you have a HC report directly to a GM.

NONE of us know what has been discussed by Woody, Mcc & Bowles. NONE

All we know is what Woody said.  Unfortunately, the media has already forgot about this and continue w/the Jets must make the playoffs or Bowles is gone.

 

"Really, the way I want to be judged this year, hopefully, from the fans' standpoint is just watch how we improve during the year," he said Tuesday on ESPN New York radio. "And look at each individual on the team and see how they're getting better. And if they're getting better, that's a mark of progress. That's what we're looking for." 

He was asked, then, if fans should judge 2017 not so much on wins and losses, but rather, on how younger players improve throughout the season. 

"Exactly," Johnson said. "If you want to go to the promised land, you've got to go in a certain direction. I think this a direction that we've never tried in 17 years that I've been involved with the Jets. We've never gone this way -- build through the draft, build through young free agents that a lot of guys don't even pay attention to." 

It was suggested to Johnson that fans should be "patient" this year. 

"Don't use the word patient," he said. "They're not patient. I think judge it by progress. So pay close attention to what's going on.

[nycdan]

I just want to call out something great that happened here.  Props to CMart, VarJet and Gas2No99 for three well-thought-out replies to my post without any hyperbole, posturing or hysteria.  I posed a legitimate question and got three informed responses.  This is JN at its very best.  Thanks guys.

[#27TheDominator]

57 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Speaking of weight . . . . . 

 

Robby Anderson - WR -  Jets

Robby Anderson is up to 180 pounds and wants to play at 185 this season.

Anderson weighed 187 at Temple's Pro Day last year, but he admitted he played his rookie season around 170. The added weight shouldn't be a problem after Anderson blazed a 4.36 forty at his pro day. Anderson is being counted on to be a playmaker for an offense that lacks those types. He's vying for the No. 2 WR job.

 

 

Source: New York Post 

Aug 2 - 9:06 AM

It is extremely hard to put on weight during an NFL season and camp.  If he is 180 now he isn't likely to be playing at 185 this season. 

[DetroitRed]

2 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

The defense will be much improved this year and even if we put out a tomato can as our QB, this team is going to find a way to win 5-6 games and dreams of a top shelf QB prospect will turn to dust.

Rams had a very good defense last year and had 4 wins. IMO, our defense is not that good. Which QB on our roster is getting us to 6 wins? Schedule is brutal.  No way we get to 4 wins

[C Mart]

11 minutes ago, jpoppy717 said:

I tend to think that best think for Hack to be prepared is to start week 1 if he is ready.  If he's not ready week 1 I don't think he'll be more ready week 5 after several weeks of getting very limited practice reps (because starting QB gets almost all the meaningful reps).  Put another way, I would think Hack would be better in week 5 with 4 games of starting and preparing to start, than he would be in week 5 after a month of barely getting reps and sitting on the bench.    

Not necessarily...He can listen to/observe McCown on Sundays..The rest of the week behind the scenes in meetings, watching tape he can learn alot..

By starting McCown week 1 he can help get the other 10 guys set and familiar w/the new O...

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is extremely hard to put on weight during an NFL season and camp.  If he is 180 now he isn't likely to be playing at 185 this season. 

It's all about the donut-to-windsprint ratio.  Ted Washington knew how to manage this properly.  

[Tinstar]

8 minutes ago, C Mart said:

NONE of us know what has been discussed by Woody, Mcc & Bowles. NONE

All we know is what Woody said.  Unfortunately  the media has already forgot about this and continue w/the Jets must make the playoffs or Bowles is gone.

 

"Really, the way I want to be judged this year, hopefully, from the fans' standpoint is just watch how we improve during the year," he said Tuesday on ESPN New York radio. "And look at each individual on the team and see how they're getting better. And if they're getting better, that's a mark of progress. That's what we're looking for." 

He was asked, then, if fans should judge 2017 not so much on wins and losses, but rather, on how younger players improve throughout the season. 

"Exactly," Johnson said. "If you want to go to the promised land, you've got to go in a certain direction. I think this a direction that we've never tried in 17 years that I've been involved with the Jets. We've never gone this way -- build through the draft, build through young free agents that a lot of guys don't even pay attention to." 

It was suggested to Johnson that fans should be "patient" this year. 

"Don't use the word patient," he said. "They're not patient. I think judge it by progress. So pay close attention to what's going on.

Also, don't a few other teams have the same setup as the Jets ? The way this GM/HC setup is talked about, you would think the Jets have some anomaly that's non existent  within the rest of the NFL . 

[flgreen]

17 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Also, don't a few other teams have the same setup as the Jets ? The way this GM/HC setup is talked about, you would think the Jets have some anomaly that's non existent  within the rest of the NFL . 

I honestly don't know Tin.  What other teams in the league, who don't have high profile head coaches, does a basically unknown HC not report to the GM?