Off Day Thoughts

[NoBowles]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is extremely hard to put on weight during an NFL season and camp.  If he is 180 now he isn't likely to be playing at 185 this season. 

I guess you never heard of PED's? The Yankees have 5 WS rings because of them.

[#27TheDominator]

Hey, @Maxman are we allowed to punch people?

[bitonti]

51 minutes ago, nycdan said:

 So are we then saying that Hack just isn't as good as any of these guys?  

 

Winner winner chicken dinner

Bowles is not a moron. He's not starting McCown cause he's dumb. It's cause Hack holds the ball for 10 minutes and has taken a bazillion sacks since training camp started. 

[Awesumtenor]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Yes. I have loss weight. Thanks for noticing. 

I have loss weight too; with every Jets loss I drank more beer and put on more weight...

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Lil Woody said:

Of course he is. He is worried about his job and will take zero steps to help the franchise move towards achieving its' long term goals so the next HC can find success.  

This is why you have a HC report directly to a GM.

And reporting directly to a GM changes that how. In that scenario the GM reports to the owner so the GM has incentive to win now , which still puts pressure on the HC .

The reporting structure has nothing to do with this mentality .

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Not necessarily...He can listen to/observe McCown on Sundays..The rest of the week behind the scenes in meetings, watching tape he can learn alot..

By starting McCown week 1 he can help get the other 10 guys set and familiar w/the new O...

I thought Hack already had the mental part of it down already.  If so, then he simply need reps to see for himself what he's got and to build his confidence.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I thought Hack already had the mental part of it down already.  If so, then he simply need reps to see for himself what he's got and to build his confidence.

It is a pretty big leap to expect reps to build his confidence. 

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

Also, don't a few other teams have the same setup as the Jets ? The way this GM/HC setup is talked about, you would think the Jets have some anomaly that's non existent  within the rest of the NFL . 

There are others setup the same as Jets. KC is one. 

[Barkus]

hack will have to play like the second coming of Marino to start week 1. I think it is a virtual certainty McCown starts week one barring injury.

[C Mart]

10 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I thought Hack already had the mental part of it down already.  If so, then he simply need reps to see for himself what he's got and to build his confidence.

New O system. New playbook. New terminology. And from what I've heard others say this week the QB has everything on his shoulders like protection assignments etc. 

IMO this is why McCown has been 1st up. As I mentioned earlier he knows this O and has played for Bates. Also it's probably why Hack looks to be #2 at the moment. He probably understands more than Petty. 

[flgreen]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

There are others setup the same as Jets. KC is one. 

Andy Reid, is a High Profile HC,  is one of the top 10 highest paid HC's in the league.  Comparison to Bowles isn't warrented.  Lil Bill also.   

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

My concern after listening to Bowles on SiriusXM yesterday is that he is clearly behind McCown at this point. Kirwan got Bowles to open up more about the QB competition and although he said largely the same "it will work itself out" rhetoric he also said that field performance is not the only criteria and then listed off several things that pretty much any veteran QB would have over Hack and Petty. I get the feeling we may be looking at the QB competition upside down with Bowles, in that I think that Hack cannot really "win" the QB competition because even if he outplays McClown, Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent. For Hack to actually start I think that in Bowles mind not only does Hack have to win it, but because of the other veteran factors he values at QB, McClown will actually have to fall on his face in the preseason and preseason games. Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

On the QB competition, a couple of the players seemed to favor Petty over the other 2 which I thought was interesting, especially Sheldon who clearly thinks Petty should start.

W

 

Whether McCown ends up starting or not, if Bowles somehow impedes Hacks growth this year he is gone, so he had better make sure he gets this one right!

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

Andy Reid, is a High Profile HC,  is one of the top 10 highest paid HC's in the league.  Comparison to Bowles isn't warrented.  Lil Bill also.   

Philly did it with Chip Kelly and Dallas does it though meddling Jerry probably makes many of those decisions anyway.  FWIW, I wouldn't really count Lil Bill since everybody reports to him and he reports to Kraft.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, jpoppy717 said:

 

1 hour ago, jpoppy717 said:

 

 

 

I tend to think that best think for Hack to be prepared is to start week 1 if he is ready.  If he's not ready week 1 I don't think he'll be more ready week 5 after several weeks of getting very limited practice reps (because starting QB gets almost all the meaningful reps).  Put another way, I would think Hack would be better in week 5 with 4 games of starting and preparing to start, than he would be in week 5 after a month of barely getting reps and sitting on the bench.   

 

 

 

You may be right but...

 

 

 

 

If Hack has a bad game or two fans out here will end up eating him alive, so the Jets have to be sure that he is mentally ready, cause once he is in, he is in and with our fan base don't let these "nice" posts out here fool ya.......

 

 

[flgreen]

Same thing with Kelly.  Highly sought after, highly paid.  Wouldn't have taken the job unless he had control.  The names that are going to come out as not having to report to the GM and going to be guys who were in the drivers seat when they were hired, and were also well compensated.

Bowles just wasn't in that situation, and should not have been given that power.  It undermines the team building potential of the GM

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

There is alot of risk for Hack to start and fall on his face.  Hack could use the extra month+ of practice.  McCown will fail or get injured, and then Hack can come in.

This is all on the assumption that the Jets are not a playoff team, which I think is true.  To build for the long-term future, let Hack gestate more and then have him play the last half of the year, after McCown as booked 5+ losses.

The problem I have with this, is that once the season starts there really is no more development for the second string QB, so Hack would be exactly as ready Week 1 as he would be on Week 5. I see no benefit to the Jets on any level short term or long term in starting McClown for even a single game with this roster.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

Hack is a oddball story.  First round physical traits, First round potential freshman year, but really negative football experience sophomore and junior years.  Hack was a second round pick arguably overdrafted, because he needed more development.   QBs needing too much development tend not to be taken in the first or even second rounds.

So yes, Winston, Marrota and Wentz were better prospects.  The Raiders rolled the dice with Carr a bit-he needed development but was not broken.

Prescott was a fluke.  Can't explain that.

One could argue that Hack this year is where Carr was his first year.  Not a bad place.  But given McCown's deal, it just feels better for me to let him start the season and then let Hack show improvement and a younger look.  Yes, Hack could start game 1 and be another Prescott (and if it looks that way he should start), but if he is still showing shakiness in the pre-season (as opposed to McCown, who is not shaky, just bad), let McCown start the season.

Under Bowles if McClown starts game 1, he will never be removed other than for injury. 

[Charlie Brown]

5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Under Bowles if McClown starts game 1, he will never be removed other than for injury. 

If Bowles does that he will gone, fair or unfair it wont matter, he will be gone!

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

Andy Reid, is a High Profile HC,  is one of the top 10 highest paid HC's in the league.  Comparison to Bowles isn't warrented.  Lil Bill also.   

I said is one. There are others. I used KC because it was mentioned a few weeks ago when they named their GM. 

 

Beane’s contract is believed to be for five years, same as McDermott’s. Both coach and GM will report directly to ownership. The rest of the structure lies in contractual details that weren’t immediately available Tuesday, but it’s safe to say McDermott has plenty of clout regardless.

 

The Falcons announced a change in the front-office structure in January that designated that Quinn and Dimitroff would report to Blank separately. Pioli assumed responsibility for free agency and the draft while reporting to Dimitroff in the process.

[C Mart]

13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Under Bowles if McClown starts game 1, he will never be removed other than for injury. 

Link? 

I seem to recall Fitz was. 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Hey, @Maxman are we allowed to punch people?

uh oh, another one of those there interwebz tough guys.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Winner winner chicken dinner

Bowles is not a moron. He's not starting McCown cause he's dumb. It's cause Hack holds the ball for 10 minutes and has taken a bazillion sacks since training camp started. 

Waht about his footwork tho

[JohnnyLV]

20 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Link? 

I seem to recall Fitz was. 

Under extreme duress despite weeks of completely pitiful play. 

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Under extreme duress despite weeks of completely pitiful play. 

So I guess we can remove "never". 

[Tinstar]

23 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Same thing with Kelly.  Highly sought after, highly paid.  Wouldn't have taken the job unless he had control.  The names that are going to come out as not having to report to the GM and going to be guys who were in the drivers seat when they were hired, and were also well compensated.

Bowles just wasn't in that situation, and should not have been given that power.  It undermines the team building potential of the GM

Sorry, but I don't see the problem or the difference .  Mac assembles the roster prior to OTAs and the front office HC and coordinators assemble the 53 man roster and practice squad with Mac having final say . Todd Bowles has control of the 53 man roster once it's finalized . He decides who starts and who dresses on game day based on information he receives from his assistants coaches and coordinators . I don't believe Bowles has control of the practice squad even thou he has input about who gets to be on it . 

Both men report to Mr Johnson and 1 man is held accountable for the players on the team while the other is held accountable for the production of said players .  Everyone and their mother think the Jets have a terrible roster and if so, why should Bowles be help accountable for that . Everyone and their mother think the Jets will suck on the field this year, and Bowles will be held responsible for the degree to which this time suck or don't .

At least that's how I see it  .

[jetspenguin]

3 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

Speaking of weight . . . . . 

 

Robby Anderson - WR -  Jets

Robby Anderson is up to 180 pounds and wants to play at 185 this season.

Anderson weighed 187 at Temple's Pro Day last year, but he admitted he played his rookie season around 170. The added weight shouldn't be a problem after Anderson blazed a 4.36 forty at his pro day. Anderson is being counted on to be a playmaker for an offense that lacks those types. He's vying for the No. 2 WR job.

 

 

Source: New York Post 

Aug 2 - 9:06 AM

still lighter than my left nut

[drsamuel84]

47 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

 

 

You may be right but...

 

 

 

 

If Hack has a bad game or two fans out here will end up eating him alive, so the Jets have to be sure that he is mentally ready, cause once he is in, he is in and with our fan base don't let these "nice" posts out here fool ya.......

 

 

Not only Hack but most likely Macc and Bowles too.  So in the interest of their own careers they are going to want to at least give Hack the best chance to succeed.  If Hack looks promising than Macc looks like a genius and Bowles a QB whisperer if he looks horrible the fans will start to question Macc's ability to find a QB and Bowles' ability to coach one.

[jeremy2020]

So a CB who's been the 9th worst CB since he entered the league has a decent half year before getting injured is now a beast. This is the hackenberg disease spreading. Ignore all previous results and only look at some strange small sample. 

"oh, his footwork was acceptable on a play in training camp in shorts! Def a lock for HOF!"

[jeremy2020]

46 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The problem I have with this, is that once the season starts there really is no more development for the second string QB, so Hack would be exactly as ready Week 1 as he would be on Week 5. I see no benefit to the Jets on any level short term or long term in starting McClown for even a single game with this roster.

The benefit is that people will hate McSuck so much that they'll treat hack like a savior even if he's as bad as Geno and he gets to come into a game in which the other team didn't prepare for him specifically. 

[jetspenguin]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

My concern after listening to Bowles on SiriusXM yesterday is that he is clearly behind McCown at this point. Kirwan got Bowles to open up more about the QB competition and although he said largely the same "it will work itself out" rhetoric he also said that field performance is not the only criteria and then listed off several things that pretty much any veteran QB would have over Hack and Petty. I get the feeling we may be looking at the QB competition upside down with Bowles, in that I think that Hack cannot really "win" the QB competition because even if he outplays McClown, Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent. For Hack to actually start I think that in Bowles mind not only does Hack have to win it, but because of the other veteran factors he values at QB, McClown will actually have to fall on his face in the preseason and preseason games. Bowles is going to repeat the errors of the past.

On the QB competition, a couple of the players seemed to favor Petty over the other 2 which I thought was interesting, especially Sheldon who clearly thinks Petty should start.

W

 

What were the "several things" that led to your assumptions? We have no idea if "Bowles will give the starting role to McClown as long as he looks competent" .what specific statements were made to support this theory?

A few vocal players preferring Petty before camp started is irrelevant unless he actually outplays the other 2 and so far that aint happening. So far he has shown no reason to even consider him still in the race. Some of those players might be making the same assumptions as some people on this board......McClown is a bum and Hack looked bad in his preseason showing last year so based on that Petty looks the least worst. 

In 2 weeks we will know exactly whats real and whats "memorex"

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

The QBs you mentioned played behind better OLines that had AT LEAST invested high round draft picks in protecting their newly declared young QB. Jets don't have that luxury, and it has been noted in practice how porous the OLine has been, so it makes more sense throwing out McCown to be eaten alive and let the OLine gel so by the 3rd -4th game Hack can come in behind a more acclimated OLine. Why get Hack killed behind a compromising OLine that is a patch work of healed up middle and late rounders sans Carpenter? He'll come in by game 4 thru 6 ala Chad Penny in 2002.

the poor oline and well lets face it.....lack of quality wr's to throw it to would hinder any young qb. 

[ASH1962]

Wait, they are in camp for 5 days and already need a day off? LOL, they have been off for the last 8 months ...

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, jetspenguin said:

the poor oline and well lets face it.....lack of quality wr's to throw it to would hinder any young qb. 

Exactly. You can't judge Geno until has has a HOF player at every position on the offense.

[MDL_JET]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

JMO..I think it has to do w/Hack still learning Morton's system. Petty said it himself in the interview that this system puts everything on the QB..McCown knows the system so I would guess in meetings, on the blackboard McCown is far and away the leader..On the field he knows what to do quicker than the other 2..Once Hack and/or Petty get to the point where they aren't "thinking" about each play, the required protections, who to put in motion and when and should he kill out of the play and what to go to they'll be closer to being ready to start

What's the benefit of having a QB who isn't ready for the non-throwing part of the position be your starter? It's only harming the other 10 players lining up...

Based on all we've read Hack is further along w/pro concepts than Petty..They both have the physical capabilities. Hack will get his chance. It might not be week 1 but it won't be week 16 either..

As for Sheldon..He's not in QB meetings.. Sheldon should just concern himself w/doing HIS job. 

 

McCown hasn't even exactly blown away the other two with his play so far in camp and he's supposed to know this offense already. (Just shows how crappy he is) 

Just all depends on how fast Hack or maybe Petty can catch up leading the offense and take over. So far they're not there yet. Preseason will show a ton. And even if McCown does start the season, I don't see him lasting more then 4-5 games. There's no way he's playing lights out and leading us to a 4-1 record, so the crowd, fans and media will be hounding for Hack and they'll make the switch. Besides, that'll give the OL some time to gel more and protect the young guys better!  What happened last year won't repeat.

At least I hope...

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, jpoppy717 said:

I tend to think that best think for Hack to be prepared is to start week 1 if he is ready.  If he's not ready week 1 I don't think he'll be more ready week 5 after several weeks of getting very limited practice reps (because starting QB gets almost all the meaningful reps).  Put another way, I would think Hack would be better in week 5 with 4 games of starting and preparing to start, than he would be in week 5 after a month of barely getting reps and sitting on the bench.    

idk........this is a new offense and a new OC...it might take a few weeks of morton stinking up the joint before it actually works the way it is supposed to....i will be honest i have ZERO faith in Morton at this point....not because of anything negative I have heard...but just because there is nothing to base positivity on.