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Deshaun Watson Impressing at Texans Camp


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31 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Let's ponder this scenario : Watson at Penn State and Hack at Clemson , do you think everyone would be calling Watson the gamer and Hack a bust still ???

People put too much emphasis on a player based on how good their surrounding team was. OMG Hack's a bust because his team was pure garbage, but Watson is the bomb because his team won the National championship.

 

It's an interesting scenario and the answer is probably you are right. Hack at Clemson gets better protection etc. Maybe he doesn't get chewed up and spat out.

But we don't live in that alternate reality. We live in the world where Hack took too many sacks, still takes too many sacks and in other words is completely shell shocked. There's no amount of 1st team reps that will fix PTSD. He needs some drugs that aren't on the NFL's approved list maybe to clear his head and get reborn as a new person. the Hack that's out there right now holding the ball for 5 seconds, throwing 2 INT for every TD, that dude is going to get killed if he starts.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Jets fans were fed this line about how the 2017 QBs were garbage. It wasn't true. Watson is a gamer everyone knew that much. He wasn't 1 overall perfect prospect like Darnold but he would have started for this team. Probably Mahomes too. 

no matter how good Adams and Maye turn out to be (and they both look great) the 2 safety picks was negligent management. It really was. "Seeing what we have" in Hack is the biggest load of garbage the Jets have ever tried to sell. And some fans bought it. 

If Watson was worth taking at 12 he sure as hell was worth taking at 6. Still not getting passing on him. 

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For everyone claiming teams don't draft 2 QB's:  Ask the Redskins how dumb it was to draft 2 QB's.  They didn't just draft them back to back, they drafted them in the same bloody year.

And now they have an unquestionable #1 QB (albeit one they refuse to sign long term) and their hyped bust #1 is not in the NFL.

Had the Jets drafted Watson, there is no reason Hack had to be cut.  Hack/Watson/Petty would have been 100% fine, unless you're a pussy who can't handle not having some JAG old man on the team to "teach".

Had Watson showed promise, there is no reason a team as starved at QB as we are would be barred from drafting a Darnold if available.  There would have been no criticism, no negatives, just the talking heads going "yeah, well, that makes sense, now they have 2 (or 3) shots at finally finding that legit guy".  

It's 100% understandable for teams who haven't had a franchise QB for what, 40 years +, to keep trying to get one.  Above all else in a league like the modern NFL, QB is all that matters.

Instead, we drafted two....safeties.  Possibly great safeties, admittedly, but safeties do not win Super Bowls, QB's do.  We could have drafted 20 safeties, it wouldn't pay the dividends of finally finding a franchise QB.

Jets Fans, IMO, need to stop thinking like we're still living in 1985, where teams could only afford one top draft QB every 5 years, and QB's were coddled and "developed" for ages before being replaced.

I would have loved to see a Watson vs. Hack competition this fall.  Instead, we're probably starting McClown, and I just know this board will be full of people complaining "we don;t know what we have in hack yet, he must start in 2018" next year no matter who we draft.

And in 2018?  Watson vs. Darnold/Rosen vs. Hack/Petty?  God, I'm hard just thinking about that, a legit good number of possible guys who could be legit franchise QB's in that group.

And if two work out....oh, how horrible, now you have (like the Pats) an asset that everyone in the NFL wants, the overhyped backup QB.  So tough trading those, people were only throwing the farm at the Pats for their overhyped backup this last offseason.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Not hugely meaningful, but seems Watson played rather well in his Preseason debut.  Vs. backups and #3's of course.

 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2726664-deshaun-watson-shines-vs-panthers-in-professional-debut-for-texans?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

Even if it was vs back ups and 3s and 4s, you could tell he's got something there. He showed pretty good pocket awareness and didn't force things when things broke down. He sailed a couple balls but overall he looked good. Have him throwing to Hopkins and not a swiss cheese oline like he was behind, things could be looking up for Houston. 

That's what I want to see from Hack or Petty. Doesn't matter who you're throwing to or who you're going against, just show us your a smart QB and make the right decisions. Not throwing into double coverage, taking sacks, etc. Let us pray.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

For everyone claiming teams don't draft 2 QB's:  Ask the Redskins how dumb it was to draft 2 QB's.  They didn't just draft them back to back, they drafted them in the same bloody year.

And now they have an unquestionable #1 QB (albeit one they refuse to sign long term) and their hyped bust #1 is not in the NFL.

Had the Jets drafted Watson, there is no reason Hack had to be cut.  Hack/Watson/Petty would have been 100% fine, unless you're a pussy who can't handle not having some JAG old man on the team to "teach".

Had Watson showed promise, there is no reason a team as starved at QB as we are would be barred from drafting a Darnold if available.  It's 100% understandable for teams who haven't had a franchise QB for what, 40 years +, to keep trying to get one.  Above all else in a league like the modern NFL, QB is all that matters.

Instead, we drafted two....safeties.  Possibly great safeties, admittedly, but safeties do not win Super Bowls, QB's do.  We could have drafted 20 safeties, it wouldn't pay the dividends of finally finding a franchise QB.

Jets Fans, IMO, need to stop thinking like we're still living in 1985, where teams could only afford one top draft QB every 5 years, and QB's were coddled and "developed" for ages before being replaced.

I would have loved to see a Watson vs. Hack competition this fall.  Instead, we're probably starting McClown, and I just know this board will be full of people complaining "we don;t know what we have in hack yet, he must start in 2018" next year no matter who we draft.

And in 2018?  Watson vs. Darnold/Rosen vs. Hack/Petty?  God, I'm hard just thinking about that, a legit good number of possible guys who could be legit franchise QB's in that group.

And if two work out....oh, how horrible, now you have (like the Pats) an asset that everyone in the NFL wants, the overhyped backup QB.  So tough trading those, people were only throwing the farm at the Pats for their overhyped backup this last offseason.

 

 

Nobody is claiming you can't draft 2 QBs, the argument is you don't draft 2 in back to back drafts with a high 1, enormous difference 

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10 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If Watson was worth taking at 12 he sure as hell was worth taking at 6. Still not getting passing on him. 

It's rocket science.... they didn't like him enough to draft him.  Since all you guys are taking victory laps, I guess they were wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I would have loved to see a Watson vs. Hack competition this fall.  Instead, we're probably starting McClown, and I just know this board will be full of people complaining "we don;t know what we have in hack yet, he must start in 2018" next year no matter who we draft.

And in 2018?  Watson vs. Darnold/Rosen vs. Hack/Petty?  God, I'm hard just thinking about that, a legit good number of possible guys who could be legit franchise QB's in that group.

And if two work out....oh, how horrible, now you have (like the Pats) an asset that everyone in the NFL wants, the overhyped backup QB.  So tough trading those, people were only throwing the farm at the Pats for their overhyped backup this last offseason.

 

 

Well hopefully we'll have Hack or Petty vs Darnold/Rosen. The only argument against that would be if Hack or Petty looks like we have something, I would wanna spend that top pick on a WR or RB to pair with them and build something for a long time. BUT if a prospect like those two are staring you in the face. F that. Take them and don't look back. Use other picks or hell trade Wilkerson for a WR to pair with them. Just give us our damn QB already.

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4 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Nobody is claiming you can't draft 2 QBs, the argument is you don't draft 2 in back to back drafts with a high 1, enormous difference 

Then what was stopping us?  Who was a high 1?  The last first rounder the Jets used on a QB was Sanchez.  That was eight drafts ago.  Pennington (18) and O'Brien (24) weren't high firsts.  The only other 1st round QBs we had were Namath #1 overall in 1965 and Todd #6 in 1976.  

If you think a 2nd is "high" for a QB, then how do you draft 2 safeties in the first 39 picks? If they didn't like Watson as a player, fair enough, but Hackenberg sure as sh*t better not have had anything to do with it, just like Geno should not have prevented Bridgwater, Carr or Garropolo.  

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5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Nobody is claiming you can't draft 2 QBs, the argument is you don't draft 2 in back to back drafts with a high 1, enormous difference 

No, it's really not.  

Repeat this till it sinks it ffs:  If you don't have a Franchise QB, you don't have sh*t.

Be assured, we're not winning a single extra game, in 2017, 2018 or ever, because we drafted two f'ing Safeties.

What exactly are you so afraid of, that some ESPN head will laugh at us?  So what?

I'm sorry, this endless hope and dream that middling 2nd round reaches will solve the QB problem isn't the answer.  it's hoping for a miracle, you might get lucky and get a miracle, but it's doubtful, as our own 2nd round pick QB track record shows.

Watson was, and is, a superior prospect to Hack.  And a Watson/Hack competition is better than anything that involves the word "McCown".

And nothign whatsoever would stop the Jets, sitting at say #2 oe #3 pick next year, from drafting the best QB to fall to that spot and having, for once, a legit competition between legit prospects for the right to QB our team.....instead of a washed up JAG "competing" vs. a guy who may never be more than a shellshocked reach 2nd rounder.

It's almost like some fans don;t want highly rated, well considered big name prospect QB's.  They want a QB to come from 7th round in some sick Brady-fetishist thing.  or they always want NEXT YEAR's big name, never a guy now.  I just don't get it.  What we do doesn't work, hasn't worked for decades.  So do something different.

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Lol, Watson is better than any QB in the 17 class and may be better than anyone in the 18 class. And it was painfully obvious to anyone that was paying attention. 

The narrative got set, mostly by the pro-hackers and fans who don't watch cfb, that Watson was just another Vince Young and not worth taking. Too many of the, admittedly, college fb ignorant fans bought this narrative, and thus we let yet another franchise QB pass on by us.

But don't fret Jets fans, all it takes in the modern nfl is a dynamic safety duel to lead our franchise to a super bowl. (Yes, rolling my eyes)

God, we are lost under Macc Bowles. Our only hope is to secure the top pick and Darnold balls out this yr. So help me God if draft Hack part 2 (Josh Rosen) I will personally go up to 1 Jets Place and kick Macc in the nuts.

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31 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Lol, Watson is better than any QB in the 17 class and may be better than anyone in the 18 class. And it was painfully obvious to anyone that was paying attention. 

The narrative got set, mostly by the pro-hackers and fans who don't watch cfb, that Watson was just another Vince Young and not worth taking. Too many of the, admittedly, college fb ignorant fans bought this narrative, and thus we let yet another franchise QB pass on by us.

But don't fret Jets fans, all it takes in the modern nfl is a dynamic safety duel to lead our franchise to a super bowl. (Yes, rolling my eyes)

God, we are lost under Macc Bowles. Our only hope is to secure the top pick and Darnold balls out this yr. So help me God if draft Hack part 2 (Josh Rosen) I will personally go up to 1 Jets Place and kick Macc in the nuts.

If you want to say there was no top rated QB with a better team than Clemson I would agree - but a better QB - I would think maybe you should pay better attention .

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36 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Lol, Watson is better than any QB in the 17 class and may be better than anyone in the 18 class. And it was painfully obvious to anyone that was paying attention. 

The narrative got set, mostly by the pro-hackers and fans who don't watch cfb, that Watson was just another Vince Young and not worth taking. Too many of the, admittedly, college fb ignorant fans bought this narrative, and thus we let yet another franchise QB pass on by us.

But don't fret Jets fans, all it takes in the modern nfl is a dynamic safety duel to lead our franchise to a super bowl. (Yes, rolling my eyes)

God, we are lost under Macc Bowles. Our only hope is to secure the top pick and Darnold balls out this yr. So help me God if draft Hack part 2 (Josh Rosen) I will personally go up to 1 Jets Place and kick Macc in the nuts.

Here we go, anointing Watson after one preseason game where he didn't even throw a TD pass. I can't wait until Trubisky/Mahommes/Kizer throw a nice TD pass and some of you guys lose your sh!t because we passed on those guys. Maybe watson's first preseason TD will look something like Hackenberg to Anderson last preseason...

 

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6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Here we go, anointing Watson after one preseason game where he didn't even throw a TD pass. I can't wait until Trubisky/Mahommes/Kizer throw a nice TD pass and some of you guys lose your sh!t because we passed on those guys. Maybe watson's first preseason TD will look something like Hackenberg to Anderson last preseason...

 

As opposed to those literally pleasuring themselves with both hands over Hack actually completing a pass or two in 7-7 drills?

Hype isn't limited to critics mate. 

End of the day Watson/Hack > McCown/Hack

I find it hard to believe anyone thinks drafting two safeties changes that.

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Just now, Warfish said:

As opposed to those literally pleasuring themselves with both hands over Hack actually completing a pass or two in 7-7 drills?

Hype isn't limited to critics mate. 

End of the day Watson/Hack > McCown/Hack

I find it hard to believe anyone thinks drafting two safeties changes that.

End of the day Darnold>>>>Watson/Hack>Mccown/Hack

If Watson turns out to be Joe Flacco and Darnold turns out to be Rodgers, it will look really stupid to have committed to Watson for the short term happiness of impatient Jets fans. By most experts accounts (if you want to ignore posters like myself) Watson was a nice prospect (which is why no one was dying to take him in the top 5) while guys like Darnold are generational type talents. I'm OK with going with Hack this year on the outside chance he turns into something but if not then Darnold. That is the right move IMO. You obviously can't wait for significantly higher graded QBs from next years class. 

With that said, Watson made a TON of sense for Houston because a player like Flacco (in other words a really good QB, but someone that may never be great) could be enough for this team to go far in the playoffs. The Jets aren't going anywhere this year or next, so it made sense to wait until next year to draft a franchise QB. Unfortunately, posters like yourself act as if posters like myself LOVE hack and think Watson is terrible when that is simply not the case. You guys are playing checkers while the rest of us are playing chess. 

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32 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

End of the day Darnold>>>>Watson/Hack>Mccown/Hack

Perhaps so.  One small problem, there is absolutely no guarantee we, the Jets, get Darnold.  None.

This is the problem with "always want the best guy NEXT year" folks.  The old saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" seems appropriate.

And Watson/Darnold > Darnold/Hack regardless.

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If Watson turns out to be Joe Flacco and Darnold turns out to be Rodgers, it will look really stupid to have committed to Watson for the short term happiness of impatient Jets fans.

Excepting drafting a QB isn't a long term commitment anymore.  Like I said, stop living in 1985.  The pay is negligible, and commitment even less so.  

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By most experts accounts (if you want to ignore posters like myself) Watson was a nice prospect (which is why no one was dying to take him in the top 5) while guys like Darnold are generational type talents.

Just like Luck was a "Generational" talent, right?  He's a pretty good QB, when he can stay on the field, but "Generational"?  Lol, no.

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I'm OK with going with Hack this year on the outside chance he turns into something but if not then Darnold. That is the right move IMO.

And what is your backup plan if Hack is middling, but the Jets squeak out 5 wins and pick 11th, and the top 3 QB prospects are all off the board by that pick?

I hear McCown could be available, but why would we want to break his streak of a new team every season, eh?

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You obviously can't wait for significantly higher graded QBs from next years class.

The way Watson was significantly higher graded than "shoulda been a 5th rounder" Hackenberg?  Because Mel Kiper says so?

But no, I'm happy to take the higher graded QB down the road.  I simply want the lower graded, but still potential franchise QB, now as well.

It's the thing old timey folks can't seem to grasp.  We can have Hack.  And Watson.  And Darnold, presuming we're bad enough this year.  

But I guess a second top-round pick Safety is good too.  Safeties, more than anyone, win Super Bowls, right?

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Unfortunately, posters like yourself act as if posters like myself LOVE hack and think Watson is terrible when that is simply not the case. You guys are playing checkers while the rest of us are playing chess. 

I've found over the years that the folks who blow their own horn the loudest about their intelligence, are often the least intelligent folks on the forums.  

Enjoy your game of chess.  I prefer Football.

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Jets fans were fed this line about how the 2017 QBs were garbage. It wasn't true. Watson is a gamer everyone knew that much. He wasn't 1 overall perfect prospect like Darnold but he would have started for this team. Probably Mahomes too. 

no matter how good Adams and Maye turn out to be (and they both look great) the 2 safety picks was negligent management. It really was. "Seeing what we have" in Hack is the biggest load of garbage the Jets have ever tried to sell. And some fans bought it. 

Whether or not watson would start for this team in 2017 isnt relevant.  Nor is how well he does in the preseaon.

What matters is whether or not watson has the ability to lead a team to consistent winning seasons by elevating the players around him.  Will he be successful dinking and dunking his way to 9-10 wins if he starts this year, likely yes - because the Texans have and elite defense, true #1 WR and top 10 RB.  Can Watson carry his team when the defense is good but not great?  Can he force defenses to respect his arm when its cold and windy in December/January - no one is sure, that is why he was a risk in the first round.

Hes a good kid, great character, winner across the board - but so was tim tebow and we know how that worked out (no im not comparing their physical abiilty as watson is a much better thower then Tebow).  Physical ability matters and no one is sure how watson's will translate.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

No, it's really not.  

Repeat this till it sinks it ffs:  If you don't have a Franchise QB, you don't have sh*t.

Be assured, we're not winning a single extra game, in 2017, 2018 or ever, because we drafted two f'ing Safeties.

What exactly are you so afraid of, that some ESPN head will laugh at us?  So what?

I'm sorry, this endless hope and dream that middling 2nd round reaches will solve the QB problem isn't the answer.  it's hoping for a miracle, you might get lucky and get a miracle, but it's doubtful, as our own 2nd round pick QB track record shows.

Watson was, and is, a superior prospect to Hack.  And a Watson/Hack competition is better than anything that involves the word "McCown".

And nothign whatsoever would stop the Jets, sitting at say #2 oe #3 pick next year, from drafting the best QB to fall to that spot and having, for once, a legit competition between legit prospects for the right to QB our team.....instead of a washed up JAG "competing" vs. a guy who may never be more than a shellshocked reach 2nd rounder.

It's almost like some fans don;t want highly rated, well considered big name prospect QB's.  They want a QB to come from 7th round in some sick Brady-fetishist thing.  or they always want NEXT YEAR's big name, never a guy now.  I just don't get it.  What we do doesn't work, hasn't worked for decades.  So do something different.

I think that this was the thinking TBH.  These guys can be building blocks for years to come but wont win us a game next year when all of these QBs come out of college. I generally have agreed with the draft a QB until you get one but this coming year is such an anomoly and with the pats, i am okay with building rather than competing this year.

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Watson wasn't perfect yesterday but overall he looked good

 

--went through progressions

--was able to extend plays

--had a couple bad throws but most of his throws were fairly accurate even downfield

 

So glad we took a pass on him for a safety

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2 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Lol, Watson is better than any QB in the 17 class and may be better than anyone in the 18 class. And it was painfully obvious to anyone that was paying attention. 

The narrative got set, mostly by the pro-hackers and fans who don't watch cfb, that Watson was just another Vince Young and not worth taking. Too many of the, admittedly, college fb ignorant fans bought this narrative, and thus we let yet another franchise QB pass on by us.

But don't fret Jets fans, all it takes in the modern nfl is a dynamic safety duel to lead our franchise to a super bowl. (Yes, rolling my eyes)

God, we are lost under Macc Bowles. Our only hope is to secure the top pick and Darnold balls out this yr. So help me God if draft Hack part 2 (Josh Rosen) I will personally go up to 1 Jets Place and kick Macc in the nuts.

Can't say he's a better pro prospect than Rosen or Darnold. But he's damn good, been a solid college QB in a big-time winning program , and a guy who by all accounts is a really good guy.  The odds are he is going to be a very good starting NFL QB. 

Picking a safety over Watson is criminal. Period. Under NFL PI and roughing rules, no defender spare a lights out pass rusher should be picked over an impact skill player or LT. The best of defenses fail several times each game,  if they  aren't getting screwed by the NFL's clear desire to enforce to rules to encourage passing offense, or both. This slavish devotion to defense uber alles is paying homage to a dead god. 

 

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

End of the day Darnold>>>>Watson/Hack>Mccown/Hack

If Watson turns out to be Joe Flacco and Darnold turns out to be Rodgers, it will look really stupid to have committed to Watson for the short term happiness of impatient Jets fans. By most experts accounts (if you want to ignore posters like myself) Watson was a nice prospect (which is why no one was dying to take him in the top 5) while guys like Darnold are generational type talents. I'm OK with going with Hack this year on the outside chance he turns into something but if not then Darnold. That is the right move IMO. You obviously can't wait for significantly higher graded QBs from next years class. 

With that said, Watson made a TON of sense for Houston because a player like Flacco (in other words a really good QB, but someone that may never be great) could be enough for this team to go far in the playoffs. The Jets aren't going anywhere this year or next, so it made sense to wait until next year to draft a franchise QB. Unfortunately, posters like yourself act as if posters like myself LOVE hack and think Watson is terrible when that is simply not the case. You guys are playing checkers while the rest of us are playing chess. 

Luckily we are not 1-2 fluke wins away from not being able to draft Darnold 

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Just now, Bugg said:

Can't say he's a better pro prospect than Rosen or Darnold. But he's damn good, been a solid college QB in a big-time winning program , and a guy who by all accounts is a really good guy.  The odds are he is going to be a very good starting NFL QB. 

Picking a safety over Watson is criminal. Period. Under NFL PI and roughing rules, no defender spare a lights out pass rusher should be picked over an impact skill player or LT. The best of defenses fail several times each game,  if they  aren't getting screwed by the NFL's clear desire to enforce to rules to encourage passing offense, or both. This slavish devotion to defense uber alles is paying homage to a dead god. 

 

Watson and Kizer will be as good or better than any qb in next year's draft not named Darnold or Allen

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2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Nobody is claiming you can't draft 2 QBs, the argument is you don't draft 2 in back to back drafts with a high 1, enormous difference 

You can pick all the DBs you want, and DL guys, and LBs. Jets have been doing it for years. All of 1 of them, Williams, is player any other team values. But QB at the top, twice in 2 years, is crazy. Right.

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1 minute ago, Bugg said:

You can pick all the DBs you want, and DL guys, and LBs. Jets have been doing it for years. All of 1 of them, Williams, is player any other team values. But QB at the top, twice in 2 years, is crazy. Right.

Bottom Line is Watson can't play nickelback in Bowles' defense so he's worthless

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9 minutes ago, thadude said:

Watson and Kizer will be as good or better than any qb in next year's draft not named Darnold or Allen

Sounds like you are changing your tune to acknowledge that Darnold and Allen are better prospects. So again, why would you settle on Watson this past year if you will likely suck enough to get Darnold or Allen Next year? Or do you just want to use our 1st round pick on QBs every year until we find one good enough but then watch him get destroyed like Luck? 

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Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Sounds like you are changing your tune to acknowledge that Darnold and Allen are better prospects. So again, why would you settle on Watson this past year if you will likely suck enough to get Darnold or Allen Next year? Or do you just want to use our 1st round pick on QBs every year until we find one good enough but then watch him get destroyed like Luck? 

Because it's absolutely not a lock we will be able to draft either one of them.  

 

And I've always said Darnold and Allen are the 2 best qbs

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

End of the day Watson/Hack > McCown/Hack

Agree as a fan I would be much more interested in this team with Watson over McCown and I would even take it a step further and say Lynch/Watson/Petty >> Watson/Hack > McCown/Hack

Yes, Lynch is losing the battle in Denver but Elway knew he had to take that chance because it is the most valuable position on the field by 10x.  Also agree that you take a QB in the first again next year if needed - trade the runner up and then build the team for a proper SB run

Take Lee and Adams off this defense and teams will still score at will, find a franchise QB and we can live in cap hell after the SuperBowl victory

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