Costello: The Job is McCown's

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Same question.  What is the upside for Bowles in starting 11 wins in 11 seasons Josh McCown?

That the 2nd round QB wasnt thrown in while unready and was given time to develop?  You know like it was done before contracts forced unprepared QBs into playing before their time?

And fans who pay money to support would have playoffs and wins to root for?  Not all fans get pleasure out of bitching and moaning about their team and then rooting for loses 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Worse...extend this logic.  At a time when every meaningful rookie QB is either starting or at least getting significant reps with the 1s, we stand alone.  So what if we manage to draft Darnold or Rosen next year and Bowles is the HC.  Are we going to trot McCown, or another similar retread veteran out there despite Bowles' assurances that its an 'open competition'?  

 

Will all the supporters of 'Hack needs more time' feel the same way when Rosen, Allen, Jackson and Rudolph are all looking like starters, but Darnold 'needs more time'? 

 

Because that's the direction we're going in.

So youre suggesting that Darnold and Hack are one in the same.  That Darnold as a high first is the same as Hack as a developmental project taken in the 2nd?

This is as wrong as people believing that who the starting QB has been decided after the first week of camp and are carrying around as it the world just ended

[August]

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

Geno is a Giant.  If you want to refight old battles, or somehow try to prove you weren't 100% wrong about Geno, do it with someone else.  You were wrong, and he's gone, right?  Right.

Starting McClown does nothing good for this team, and does a number of things that are bad, if both players are generally equal (as they have been per reports so far).

The only reason I've heard (repeatedly) for playing McCown is "veterans will be mad".  

Yeah, great reason to not play your 2nd year high draft pick QB in what clearly is his make or break year here in NY.

But of course, look who I'm talking to, you literally ARE the reason there is a "no weapons, unfair, start him in 2023!" meme.  If it were up to you, Geno would be starting here now, right?  Of course. 

The point is valid because it's a trend with this coaching staff. Play older quarterback with no long term future over younger quarterbacks with a chance to be the long term quarterback. 

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That the 2nd round QB wasnt thrown in while unready and was given time to develop?  You know like it was done before contracts forced unprepared QBs into playing before their time?

And fans who pay money to support would have playoffs and wins to root for?  Not all fans get pleasure out of bitching and moaning about their team and then rooting for loses 

So, ultimately, your argument is that Josh McCown gives the 2017 Jets a shot at the playoffs and thus protect Todd Bowles job.

Ok, that's a point of view.  It's not one that many share, but it is a point of view.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, ultimately, your argument is that Josh McCown gives the 2017 Jets a shot at the playoffs and thus protect Todd Bowles job.

Ok, that's a point of view.  It's not one that many share, but it is a point of view.

Ugh no, he gave us a scenario where if Josh started and won 12 games and then asked what would it do for us and I answered it.

Two different stories and neither have a thing to do with protecting someones job.  Bowles is going nowhere either way

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, August said:

The point is valid because it's a trend with this coaching staff. Play older quarterback with no long term future over younger quarterbacks with a chance to be the long term quarterback. 

Has nothing to do with the staff.  

Bowes was set to start Geno over Fitz until IK ended that plan.  Then Fitz won 10 games, there was no scenario where he was sitting on the bench after that season.   

Now hes dealing with two extremely green QBs and a vet.  Lets see how loyal he is to the vet.  1, he hasnt been named the starter by anyone who counts and 2, how long does he start?  A couple of weeks to give Hack more time, so what if thats the case.  

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Ugh no, he gave us a scenario where if Josh started and won 12 games and then asked what would it do for us and I answered it.

Two different stories and neither have a thing to do with protecting someones job.  Bowles is going nowhere either way

Ok, so, you responded to a question I asked someone else by answering a question I didn't ask.  I think got it now.

[thadude]

10 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Yeah...the strategy apparently was to sign a 38 yo has been borderline NFL QB and start him while cutting every other veteran player over 30 yo who didn't play QB.

And then have some fans justifying why Bowles is giving McCown a lion's share of the reps in PS.

Sounds good to me.

The "Youth" Movement 

 

FML

[thadude]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You obviously have no idea how a football org is run.  

Neither do Macagnan and Bowles

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Ok, so, you responded to a question I asked someone else by answering a question I didn't ask.  I think got it now.

Actually the problem is you responded to my post without looking to see if I was making a statement or responding to someone else.  Its on you, dont try and turn it around.  I never said McCown would start to protect Bowles.  

WTF cant anyone say, sorry, my bad.

[Dcat]

16 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

That's a ridiculous take imo.  We should just respect the coaches decisions as it pertains to the depth chart?  Why exactly?

Well Bowels has shown exactly nothing to command that kind of respect and acceptance. what he has shown is a propensity to stick with established vets - which is just him acting in his own self interest.  So you want us, AS FANS, to get on board with THAT?  To accept a defensive coach, looking to place a vet QB at the helm to not make mistakes, and keep games close, to try to win on defense like it is 1980. Just so he can improve on his own W/L record to keep his seat cool?  You want us to ignore the best interests of the team we root for long term and to choose to get behind the idea to NOT TRY to develop a QB for the future and settle for a mediocre backup. For what...because Todd Bowles wants that?  Sorry.  We aren't Fans of the New York Bowles.  We are Jets fans. We want to see progress at QB position. We want to see development.  We want to see a team with the potential to actually do something besides go 8-8.  And I don't mean squeak into the playoffs at 9-7 and go home early. No. Play Hack and Petty.  McCown is a break glass in case of emergency player.

And so what if McCown fights super hard to be mediocre. We should see that as a good thing? This guy is out there killing himself every down and he's still not good.  So let's reward that lack of talent and low ceiling because he's presently better than our other players.  I wonder if the Giants should have suffocated Eli for Kurt Warner.  Kurt was CLEARLY the better player, as Eli was hot garbage years 1-3.  There are plenty of similar examples. You have to have more than just short term vision towards the next practice or next opponent when it comes to roster decisions. Rolling with losers like Fitz and McCown because they are better right now is just accepting mediocrity. 

BTW what did Hack do to you? Bang your girlfriend? Every post I see with you is almost hard line hater material, essentially not even allowing for Hack to ever improve or become better than he is. The book isn't written on this kid at all. But if you don't play him, you won't ever know.

Finally, who is that guy in the avatar? That's one weird looking dude. Looks like one of those nick cage faces like in the memes. Was he a jets coach or something?  I don't recognize him.

^THIS times 10!!!  

Bitonti is the most short-sighted poster I've ever seen a on a sports-team message board.  NEVER has a long term view.  It's always for the immediate moment.  So even if McCown is better than Hack right now, he can't see past the present and realize how important it is to see what we've got sooner than later.  

[thadude]

Just now, Dcat said:

^THIS times 10!!!  

Bitonti is the most short-sighted poster I've ever seen a on a sports-team message board.  NEVER has a long term view.  It's always for the immediate moment.  So even if McCown is better than Hack right now, he can't see past the present and realize how important it is to see what we've got sooner than later.  

If Hack was even remotely halfway decent he'd have 0.0 issue starting over McClown because he'd outplay him in TC and preseason

 

Short-sighted, long-sighted, near-sighted

[Dcat]

16 hours ago, thadude said:

Calvin Pryors #2 and #3

That is just stupid.

[Dcat]

16 hours ago, thadude said:

I'll be bumping this thread when OJ Howard is making multiple Pro Bowls while Brady continues to put up 40-burgers on our secondary

Even if Howard makes pro bowl in a few years, how does that make Adams and Maye equivalent to a Calvin Pryor?  

Just stop.  

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Even if Howard makes pro bowl in a few years, how does that make Adams and Maye equivalent to a Calvin Pryor?  

Just stop.  

Ever wonder how Brady still puts up 40-burgers on our defenses while we use all of these 1st and 2nd round picks on defense?

[RSJ]

Same question.  What is the upside for Bowles in starting 11 wins in 11 seasons Josh McCown?

There is none. If Hack continues to play just as well as McCown and doesn't get a chance with the 1s then my conclusion is Bowles has no idea what he is doing.


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[LionelRichie]

18 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

There is none. If Hack continues to play just as well as McCown and doesn't get a chance with the 1s then my conclusion is Bowles has no idea what he is doing.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I was in the "start hack" camp for the past couple of months but changed my mind.   It sounds like Hack has made significant progress from year 1 to year 2.   Why not actually try to develop the kid from year 2 to year 3?    

the offense is going to suck this year.   avg running game, no wr's, and mediocre line is not a recipe for success.   Let Petty and McCown play the first 10-12 games and replace a concussed McCown with Hack in December.   Hack can then carry the starting job into the off-season and compete with a rookie next year.  

[ChuckkieB]

3 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

I was in the "start hack" camp for the past couple of months but changed my mind.   It sounds like Hack has made significant progress from year 1 to year 2.   Why not actually try to develop the kid from year 2 to year 3?    

They did try to develop Hack by red shirting him during year one.  One full season, 2 training camps, and 2 preseasons isn't enough development time?  The modern day NFL QB comes into the league ready to play, or not.  Very few, if any, QB's are developed.  Hackenberg, ready or not, should be the day one starter on a team going nowhere this year.  Letting him experience the speed and pace of the NFL game in real time will be the best teacher for him, not sitting on the bench for another year.  If he's up to the task, fantastic.  If not, let Petty do some mop up work the rest of the season.  That would be MY development plan.  

[C Mart]

8 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

They did try to develop Hack by red shirting him during year one.  One full season, 2 training camps, and 2 preseasons isn't enough development time?  The modern day NFL QB comes into the league ready to play, or not.  Very few, if any, QB's are developed.  Hackenberg, ready or not, should be the day one starter on a team going nowhere this year.  Letting him experience the speed and pace of the NFL game in real time will be the best teacher for him, not sitting on the bench for another year.  If he's up to the task, fantastic.  If not, let Petty do some mop up work the rest of the season.  That would be MY development plan.  

No they don't. Most college Os are not NFL ready systems. 

One again. If it takes a guy 1,2,3 yrs to finally become "that guy" for the next 10 yrs what's the harm? 

[ChuckkieB]

Just now, C Mart said:

 

One again. If it takes a guy 1,2,3 yrs to finally become "that guy" for the next 10 yrs what's the harm? 

Except this does NOT happen in the modern NFL.  QB's come in to the league ready to play, regardless of the college system they ran, or they don't.  There's usually no in between, and they usually get the chance year ONE to make their case.

[C Mart]

Just now, ChuckkieB said:

Except this does NOT happen in the modern NFL.  QB's come in to the league ready to play, regardless of the college system they ran, or they don't.  There's usually no in between, and they usually get the chance year ONE to make their case.

And what's the success rate? So this regime has to follow how all the others do things?  

[flgreen]

25 minutes ago, C Mart said:

No they don't. Most college Os are not NFL ready systems. 

One again. If it takes a guy 1,2,3 yrs to finally become "that guy" for the next 10 yrs what's the harm? 

Because 2nd round picks are only under contract for 4 years, You'd be spending 3 years in developing him for another team.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Worse...extend this logic.  At a time when every meaningful rookie QB is either starting or at least getting significant reps with the 1s, we stand alone.  So what if we manage to draft Darnold or Rosen next year and Bowles is the HC.  Are we going to trot McCown, or another similar retread veteran out there despite Bowles' assurances that its an 'open competition'?  

 

Will all the supporters of 'Hack needs more time' feel the same way when Rosen, Allen, Jackson and Rudolph are all looking like starters, but Darnold 'needs more time'? 

 

Because that's the direction we're going in.

Where do you guys get that Hack isnt getting playing time with the ones?

He hasnt gotten the FIRST throws to the ones, but has played with the ones, a big difference.  Hes gotten playing time with the ones

[Ex-Rex]

21 hours ago, dbatesman said:

 imagine the look on this goobers face when Hack is named the week 1 starter, lmao man I cant wait

If Hack isn't getting the practice reps he stands NO chance at starting.

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Except this does NOT happen in the modern NFL.  QB's come in to the league ready to play, regardless of the college system they ran, or they don't.  There's usually no in between, and they usually get the chance year ONE to make their case.

Other than Marino, Cam, Dak and maybe Jameis, who has come in ready to play NFL football?  Not either Manning, not Luck, not Mariota, not Elway, not Big Ben, not Brees and not Montana.  Very few, a low percentage

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Where do you guys get that Hack isnt getting playing time with the ones?

He hasnt gotten the FIRST throws to the ones, big difference.  Hes gotten playing time with the ones

http://nypost.com/2017/08/05/qb-controversy-that-isnt-and-four-other-jets-camp-takeaways/

So far McCown has gotten nearly all of the first-team snaps, and when I say “nearly all,” I mean about 99 percent. Hackenberg has worked with the second unit throughout camp. There has been no rotation, no alternating series, nothing. McCown looks like the starter and Hackenberg is the No. 2.

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/08/christian_hackenberg_jets_qbs_struggle_again_sixth.html

The Jets wide-open quarterback competition may be closing. Yet again, Christian Hackenberg didn't receive a first-team rep, and Bryce Petty continues to be worked out. It appears as if this is Josh McCown's job until something drastic happens to change it.

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/03/todd-bowles-wont-admit-it-but-josh-mccown-looks-like-jets-starting-qb/

Of course, the biggest indicator is that McCown has been with the first-team for just about every single first-team rep to this point. In the early going, it seems that McCown is not only in front, but ahead by quite a bit.

Based on reps and experience, McCown seems to be the preferred choice for Bowles at this point even though Hackenberg has looked better this summer and provides a glimmer of hope for the future.

Bowles has pegged this as an open competition but if it is, you could have fooled me.

It looks as if he’s already made up his mind and McCown is the choice.

 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

http://nypost.com/2017/08/05/qb-controversy-that-isnt-and-four-other-jets-camp-takeaways/

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/08/christian_hackenberg_jets_qbs_struggle_again_sixth.html

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/03/todd-bowles-wont-admit-it-but-josh-mccown-looks-like-jets-starting-qb/

 

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe that its 99% to 1%.  I would agree that its time to turn it around if close to being true.  But yet its still early and Im not ready to say who has won the job before a single preseason game has been played.  

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Other than Marino, Cam, maybe Jameis & Dak, who has come in ready to play NFL football?  Not either Manning, not Luck, not Elway, not Big Ben, not Brees and not Montana.  Very few, a low percentage

Russ Wilson
Andy Dalton
Carson Wentz
Matt Ryan
Ben Roethlisberger
...to name a few.  They all had their rookie struggles but were all successful in their first season as a starter.  it's not nearly as rare as you are portraying.  

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, RSJ said:

 

There is none. If Hack continues to play just as well as McCown and doesn't get a chance with the 1s then my conclusion is Bowles has no idea what he is doing.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Ok - So, despite the fact that he's been around football his entire life, he simply has no clue what is going on, no ability to evaluate players, and no plan whatsoever?  That's certainly a take, I suppose.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, nycdan said:

Russ Wilson
Andy Dalton
Carson Wentz
Matt Ryan
Ben Roethlisberger
...to name a few.  They all had their rookie struggles but were all successful in their first season as a starter.  it's not nearly as rare as you are portraying.  

Wentz was what a 28 year old rookie?
Big Bens teams won in spite of him, he was not a good QB back then.  I'll give you Ryan and the running QB Wilson was.

Still a really minute percentage compared to all the QBs that came into the league.  

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I find it hard to believe that its 99% to 1%.  I would agree that its time to turn it around if close to being true.  But yet its still early and Im not ready to say who has won the job before a single preseason game has been played.  

Sure...99% may be typical journalist hyperbole but this is the consistently reported narrative by guys who at least are in the same zip code as the practices.  And I haven't seen any reports to the contrary so I'm inclined to believe it lacking evidence to the contrary.  You seem to want to see a different story but pretty much ALL of the available reporting supports the "case closed" version of events regarding the supposed QB competition.

[MDL_JET]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I find it hard to believe that its 99% to 1%.  I would agree that its time to turn it around if close to being true.  But yet its still early and Im not ready to say who has won the job before a single preseason game has been played.  

The spot will definitely be won in preseason. It's just odd that Bowles would be so lopsided with the reps between the QBs with the first team. Pete Carroll split the reps evenly in camp when Wilson and Flynn battled it out and they signed him to a huge contract. Nothing was given. But either way, Wilson won it from his good play in preseason. Hack needs to do the same thing. Make the coaches decision an easy one and play lights out. 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

The spot will definitely be won in preseason. It's just odd that Bowles would be so lopsided with the reps between the QBs with the first team. Pete Carroll split the reps evenly in camp when Wilson and Flynn battled it out and they signed him to a huge contract. Nothing was given. But either way, Wilson won it from his good play in preseason. Hack needs to do the same thing. Make the coaches decision an easy one and play lights out. 

Bowles did say at the begining of camp that it would change from week to week and not to look into it as any indication of who would start.  Lets see as we go into the 2nd week of camp if it changes.

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wentz was what a 28 year old rookie?
Big Bens teams won in spite of him, he was not a good QB back then.  I'll give you Ryan and the running QB Wilson was.

Still a really minute percentage compared to all the QBs that came into the league.  

Wentz is 24 currently.

Wilson passed for 3,000 yards and 26 TDs vs. 10 INTs while running for 4.

FWIW Ben went 13-0 as a starter.  Rookie Season Stats: 14 GP, 66.4% comp., 2,621 yards, 17 TDs, 11 INTs, 56 carries, 144 rushing yards, 1 TD.

So would you consider that a good season by Hack or Petty?  Would you expect McCown to do any better?  I'd call that a successful rookie season no matter now good the team was.  In fact, you could argue Dak's team was as good or better than Ben's.  

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Sure...99% may be typical journalist hyperbole but this is the consistently reported narrative by guys who at least are in the same zip code as the practices.  And I haven't seen any reports to the contrary so I'm inclined to believe it lacking evidence to the contrary.  You seem to want to see a different story but pretty much ALL of the available reporting supports the "case closed" version of events regarding the supposed QB competition.

Actually my main point has been what I wrote above.  Its been one week and the supposed plan was it would change from week to week so lets see if thats true or BS and not make claims for the regular season with weeks to go and 4 preseason games on the schedule to be played