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If Hackenberg fails to look as good as Watson, Kizer, and Trubisky


Pointdexter

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6 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Not this sojf. I just want to see some encouraging signs out of Hack: pocket presence, consistent accuracy, going through progressions, etc.

No one, and certainly not me, is anointing these rookies of anything. They did however show promise, things to point to and get their fan bases excited. Just would like to see the same from Hack coming off the red shirt season.

I'd be happy with command of the huddle and absence of Happy Feet.

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9 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I'd be happy with command of the huddle and absence of Happy Feet.

I agree. I will also add that I would like to see him step into throws when under pressure. A lot of guys do that during college - but can't do it in the NFL. But no matter what I will try not to get too high or too low based on this performance. Who am I kidding, I am buying his jersey if he looks really awesome.

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Not an issue.  Issue has been the number of balls way off the mark and hitting the dirt.

He's also locking on to one receiver and taking sacks if he's not open or throwing INTs.

five picks in last two practices, four during team periods.

Seems like your reports and all those from others mention a lot of dropped balls. Don't know that it's significant to this or not but I bet 50% of his passes were thrown short.

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

The young kids are balling out and showing franchise potential. Hack has a full year of nfl experience and coaching over these kids. Theoretically he should be ahead. Macc better hope Hack at least matches the level of the rooks performances, tonight against Tenn. 

It's bad enough to draft a bust. It's a whole other level of bad if you let multiple franchise qbs get away bc of your mistake to draft said bust. A lot on the line for Macc's future, in my opinion. 

Btw, it's early yet but we were told over and over the '17 qb class was hot garbage. Sure not looking like it so far. 

That's a poor way at looking at it..Why can't Jets fans just let Hack progress (or maybe he doesn't)...But at least give the kid a legitimate chance to develop, which includes screwing up, making mistakes, hopefully learning from those mistakes and improving.  He's 22 yrs old.  He has all the physical tools to be a franchise QB..Can the rest be developed?  Let's find out. But to expect instant results or comparing him to that QB, who is in a different environment, is setting expectations for failure. Patience. Hack (and all these players, FO & coaches) can't be blamed for the failures of Sanchez, Geno, Nagle the list goes on and 40 yrs of Jets misery..

All we hear on here is it's a tank yr..So let's just allow this season to play out..Let's see how all these rookies and 2nd yr players play/develop.   

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

Lol at #2. What the hell does it matter what the fans want. It's Macc's job, not the fans, to get it right. Macc doesn't get a pass bc the majority of fans may have agreed with him. Of course if you want to pick a nit, most fans were well on-board with Kizer in the 2nd, where he went, just not in the 1st.

Regarding your first point, you know we are allowed to trade up for a QB, just as the team who ultimately drafted Trubisky did, right?

Because I'm answering a poster who all of a sudden is pimping a guy no one wanted anything to do with.  But after a handful of passes against scrubs.

i wouldn't have traded up, gave up all Chicago did for Trubinski.  One game of a limited number of passes hasn't changed that view anymore than the exact same talk a year ago after Lynches first preseason game did.  Ultimately Macc was right about Lynch as of today and the great Elway overpaid for him.

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

The young kids are balling out and showing franchise potential. Hack has a full year of nfl experience and coaching over these kids. Theoretically he should be ahead. Macc better hope Hack at least matches the level of the rooks performances, tonight against Tenn. 

It's bad enough to draft a bust. It's a whole other level of bad if you let multiple franchise qbs get away bc of your mistake to draft said bust. A lot on the line for Macc's future, in my opinion. 

Btw, it's early yet but we were told over and over the '17 qb class was hot garbage. Sure not looking like it so far. 

So now we are determining who is and who is not franchise QB by one pre-season game? Awesome. 

 

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31 minutes ago, j4jets said:

1. You make no sense. 

2. No one wanted Hack

3. Where do you come up with your garbage?

Ryan‏ @OVIENYJ  Aug 9

@MccloughanScot honest opinion on hackenberg?

Scot Mccloughan @MccloughanScot

Replying to @OVIENYJ

I loved him coming out. Serious upside

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

1.  They were in no position to draft Trubinski, he has nothing to do with us.

2.  No one wanted Kizer. 

3.  Watson was more of the same, all people complained was about his drop off and his arm.

Fans overreacting to a handful of throws against scrubs is typical though.  

Hey pal! Don't blame us cause it takes you more than one pre-season game to tell who is and who isn't a franchise QB. 

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39 minutes ago, j4jets said:

1. You make no sense. 

2. No one wanted Hack

3. Where do you come up with your garbage?

Garbage?  

So in other words a 3 part answer that says absolutely nothing.  

A Hack reference for no reason at all. 

Nice job.  Thanks for adding to the discussion.  

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

The young kids are balling out and showing franchise potential. Hack has a full year of nfl experience and coaching over these kids. Theoretically he should be ahead. Macc better hope Hack at least matches the level of the rooks performances, tonight against Tenn. 

It's bad enough to draft a bust. It's a whole other level of bad if you let multiple franchise qbs get away bc of your mistake to draft said bust. A lot on the line for Macc's future, in my opinion. 

Btw, it's early yet but we were told over and over the '17 qb class was hot garbage. Sure not looking like it so far. 

I'm not trying to make excuses, but Holy Cow, he has no one to throw to.

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Not an issue.  Issue has been the number of balls way off the mark and hitting the dirt.

He's also locking on to one receiver and taking sacks if he's not open or throwing INTs.

five picks in last two practices, four during team periods.

AFJF,

Since you've been there..All we heard a week ago was he was holding onto the ball too long, which is normal for a young QB and one learning a new system (Pennington did the same thing)...That said, regarding the last two practice was he still holding onto the ball as long as before?  If not, perhaps the coaches are telling him to lack of a better phrase, "let it rip" alittle quicker..We'll live w/the bad passes / INTs for now

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Hey pal! Don't blame us cause it takes you more than one pre-season game to tell who is and who isn't a franchise QB. 

Right.  One short series and they're crying over 3 passes on picking up a franchise QB.  

While complaining about the guy we haven't seen throw a single pass. 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Right.  One short series and they're crying over 3 passes on picking up a franchise QB.  

While complaining about the guy we haven't seen throw a single pass. 

I'm advanced. I can tell who the franchise QB is by the tie they wear when they get drafted. 

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3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

AFJF,

Since you've been there..All we heard a week ago was he was holding onto the ball too long, which is normal for a young QB and one learning a new system (Pennington did the same thing)...That said, regarding the last two practice was he still holding onto the ball as long as before?  If not, perhaps the coaches are telling him to lack of a better phrase, "let it rip" alittle quicker..We'll live w/the bad passes / INTs for now

I won't pretend I have a stop watch on the kid, but given the fact that he's still taking a ton of sacks and still locking on to one guy, it doesn't feel like the ball is coming out much quicker if at all.  I get that he's learning a new system with new players, but so is Petty, and Petty is the guy who never played in a pro system before and he's looked better.

Again, I hope it's just growing pains, but I'm just callin' it like I see it.  Locking on to one guy, lots of dirt balls and a significant jump in INT's.  

As I (and everyone who reports on the team) has said, there's just no consistency.  He'll blow you away with a throw or two, but then the next four or five will flutter and land in no man's land.  Hence the 50% comp pct thus far.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I won't pretend I have a stop watch on the kid, but given the fact that he's still taking a ton of sacks and still locking on to one guy, it doesn't feel like the ball is coming out much quicker if at all.  I get that he's learning a new system with new players, but so is Petty, and Petty is the guy who never played in a pro system before and he's looked better.

Again, I hope it's just growing pains, but I'm just callin' it like I see it.  Locking on to one guy, lots of dirt balls and a significant jump in INT's.  

As I (and everyone who reports on the team) has said, there's just no consistency.  He'll blow you away with a throw or two, but then the next four or five will flutter and land in no man's land.  Hence the 50% comp pct thus far.

Fair enough..thanks. I read Dennis Waszak (AP writer covering Jets) say when it's 11 on 11 he would rank McCown 1st followed by Hack then Petty..

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It's kind of important to remember that essentially this is Hack's rookie year. Many QB's that go on to be great experience a rocky first year. The important part is seeing improvement throughout the year. When watching Geno last night, he basically looked the the same QB he did as a rookie. Same mistake, same everything.

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24 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Ryan‏ @OVIENYJ  Aug 9

@MccloughanScot honest opinion on hackenberg?

Scot Mccloughan @MccloughanScot

Replying to @OVIENYJ

I loved him coming out. Serious upside

McCloughan's the guy who can't hold a job because he's a drunk, right?

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13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

McCloughan's the guy who can't hold a job because he's a drunk, right?

He's also the guy who has the reputation of an excellent talent evaluator who had his hand in picking the SF (during the pre & Harbaugh yrs) & Seattle players

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17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

McCloughan's the guy who can't hold a job because he's a drunk, right?

Some may know him that way.  Others may remember him as the guy that had a large part in building the Seahawks and Niners rosters from awhile back, and the current Skins roster.

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

Not this sojf. I just want to see some encouraging signs out of Hack: pocket presence, consistent accuracy, going through progressions, etc.

No one, and certainly not me, is anointing these rookies of anything. They did however show promise, things to point to and get their fan bases excited. Just would like to see the same from Hack coming off the red shirt season.

And you saw that because you watched the games or simply read the boxscore or watched the NBA network (ESPN) highlights.  Just wondering how you judged pocket presence , progressions and accuracy of these other superstar QB's.

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I happen to like Mahomes as a prospect and he just seems to have the "it" factor, but anyone who is saying that it will be clear that Mac screwed up not taking any of these guys should remember how  many QBs have looked great in the preseason and never do a thing in an actual game.  

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One would hope that in his pre-season appearance Hack looked as good as Kizer.  Hack was drafted lower in the second round, but had a year of practice.

If I had a to predict, i don't think he does, mostly because I think the opportunity to coach him for a year and a half was squandered.   He has been coached in 2017, but I think Gailey and Patullo were asleep at the switch.

Hack was drafted for his physical tools,.  I think the biggest issue the fanbase has is that he was overdrafted.   We can work out amongst ourselves what the definition of a draft pick is.  My guess is that most would say something like 1st and 2nd round picks should be starters, after that some percentage of the picks after that should play.   The memo that Macc appears to not have gotten was the need to always have a competent QB if you want to put forth functional football.  Unfortunately, if you don't have a QB, you can't draft like Mel Kiper and take the highest rated player.   You need to do what it takes to get a QB.  QBs don't fit on the draft board.  The good news is that Macc clearly reached for Hack to get a QB-most teams probably had him at 5th or lower-look where Kaaya got picked this year.

But if Hack can play like an NFL QB, Macc looks like a genius.  The problem is that Hack can't really do that, at least yet.  We will see how he plays tonight.

But the fact of the matter is that the Jets have paying customers who want to see functional NFL football.  I love Jamal Adams, but the Jets did not have the luxury of taking him when there were 2-3 QBs who where better than the QBs they have on their roster.  That is really the standard for me when drafting-you can go BPA, but if there is a QB available that is better than what you have, you take him, regardless of rating.  One would think practically that should mean basically a first round reach for a player not expected to last into the second round.  The Jets think that Hack would not have lasted into the third.

But if I was Macc, and maybe this is what he did, I would have gotten him a QB coach to basically live in his basement.  The answer the OP's question-Hack should look like Kizer just did.  There were posters on this board who thought the Jets should pass on Trubisky, and he was initially expected to be there for the Jets at 6.  I knew that he appeared to be a competent QB.  

On one hand Macc appears smart for passing on Paxton Lynch.  On the other hand, that draft is looking awful  An NFL team needs a QB.   I am thinking today that they were better off taking a chance on Lynch than drafting Lee.  I am more than happy to be corrected on that.

I am looking forward to reading this board tomorrow. I think Petty "surprises."  Petty was also a top rated HS QB and All American in college.  He was a better college QB than Dak Prescott was.

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It always amazes me with the ability of some to turn the thread into something it's not based on the straw man argument principle. 

Bottom line is if Hack can't show us equivalent "flashes" or "glimpses" or "potential" or whatever term you want to use to denote promise, in his second year, as these other qbs in their first, that is a problem. 

No amount of burying your head in the sand or fanboy excuses changes that. This is not about one preseason game, Hack was awful for his last 2 years of college, awful last preseason, and from almost all reports awful on the practice field last season. Practice reports this season aren't much better. So yes, at some point we need to see something from him and cannot keep writing things off as "one preseason game" or "one disgruntled coach" or "one hatin' reporter", etc etc etc etc

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1 hour ago, Sarge4Tide said:

This is the most Jets fan thread of all pathetic Jets fan threads 

There's this really cool viral post on social media about how deep the ocean is. It takes you all the way down to the Mariana trench. 

 

We are well past how far down the whales can reach in this thread.

 

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What happens tonight is irrelevant.

It's what happens this year that tells the tale.

If Hackenberg is a bust, and either/or Watson and Kizer become solid NFL starting QB's, Mac (under any rational organization) would be gone for his wanton failures at the QB position after 3 years.

But we all know we're not rational, so Mac will almost assuredly get to tie the franchise down next draft with witchever QB he thinks is the best one.

Lets hope his evaluation of QB prospects has improved.

Or that Hack proves Mac wiser then we fans think he is.

16 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Bottom line is if Hack can't show us equivalent "flashes" or "glimpses" or "potential" or whatever term you want to use to denote promise, in his second year, as these other qbs in their first, that is a problem. 

 

This, in a nutshell.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What happens tonight is irrelevant.

It's what happens this year that tells the tale.

If Hackenberg is a bust, and either/or Watson and Kizer become solid NFL starting QB's, Mac (under any rational organization) would be gone for his wanton failures at the QB position after 3 years.

But we all know we're not rational, so Mac will almost assuredly get to tie the franchise down next draft with witchever QB he thinks is the best one.

Lets hope his evaluation of QB prospects has improved.

Or that Hack proves Mac wiser then we fans think he is.

 

This, in a nutshell.

So if Hack doesn't pan out, but Maye surprises everyone and has a good rookie year, Shell starts at RT all season and 3 of Lee, Jenkins, Donahue, Burris, Hanson or Stewart produce this season Mac should be fired?  Because he made one bad QB evaluation?

I get that its the most important position, but Hack is 22 and could wind up being a decent backup, while Trubisky, who looked good facing a scheme less defense of guys who want play in the NFL also is far from a good NFL QB, regardless of what his preseason stats are.

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just out of curiosity are we not going to complain about Lynch anymore since Simian looked much better than him? Hack was a second round pick who was a known project with huge potential upside...if he doesn't pan out to be as good as a guy who was drafted number 2 overall that is because of the whole risk thing...after all that is why he was available in the second round. As far as the new kids who lit up preseason...give me a break veterans play soft during the preseason because they don't want to risk getting hurt and alot of the "competition" they are facing wont even make it onto an NFL roster. Lets wait until atleast regular season game one is over before we pass our final judgement eh?

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