Warfish's Postgame Thoughts: Jets vs. Titans

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sorry in advance for the late response, as with all Preseason games, I wind up watching them after the fact.  Being out of market kinda sucks (and too cheap to pay for Game Pass).

Jets v. Titans Observations:

This will be a bit QB Heavy, since that's the real question right now.

-Unless there is a MAJOR change in playing time allotments in Preseason Game #2, the first preseason game made it very clear that McCown is the #1, Hackenberg the #2 and Petty is simply not in the mix at all.  I expect to see a very standard preseason time allotment going forward, McCown plays the entire first and into the 2nd next week.  McCown plays three quarters in PS Week 3.  And one quarter or less in the last PS game.  Hackenberg gets the vast bulk of other playing time in PS wk.s 2 and 3, with Petty getting the trash time in the final PS game.  

-McCown looked fine.  The long bomb was nice, but was more Robinson's adjustment and quality catch than McCown's perfect throw.  Other than that, too little to go on yet.  But we can expect typical McCown.

-McCown looked VERY active as a "teacher/leader" last night.  He was all over the sideline talking to players and working with them (it appeared), especially Hackenberg and Petty.  There might be some value to this, although I continue to say that if we need a Coach, hire a Coach, not a #1 QB.

-Hackenberg looked worlds better than we last say him in PS Game #4 last year (the only play we have to go on till last night).  He was generally crisp and accurate running the dnk-dunk West Coast Pennington-style offense he's being asked to run.  He was obviously much worse on any throw longer than 10 yards, which is still a major concern.  But overall, I would say this was actually a rather solid and good way for Hack to start the preseason in 2017.  The mistakes were mostly minor and of the young/learning/preseason-mixed-players variety and forgivable.  He at the very least looked like a NFL QB during his stint.  Lets hope he can build on this in the next two games.

-If Petty is indeed just flat out of any running for anything, then I'm glad Hackenberg got so much more playing time than I expected.  He needs the work and experience.  Sad to see PEtty so forgotten now, but I presume his play in practise has earned that.  Or he's not getting a fair shake, hard to say really, he didn't do much last night to show us otherwise.

-Running back, without Powell, looks downright atrocious.  The O-Line's ability to run also looked pretty atrocious.  Lets hope that as Powell and Forte (ugh) come back and play, and the O-line solidifies as to who the starting 5 are, that this aspect improves materially.  We need this O-line and Running game to help support whomever plays QB if we want to be in games at all.

-We do not need any more WR's.  We have an entire roster of young, hungry, WR's with potential.  Plugging in some over the hill Veteran will not improve this crew or change our fate in 2017.  Like with the QB's, we must use this year to fully flesh out who and what we have at WR, as we have more younger, talented WR's than we have available spots for them.  I look forward to watching this battle for the roster play out the next few weeks.  Have faith, while we WILL have lots of drops this year, we won;t be the worst in the NFL in drops again (I predict) and we will have better WR play than we got overall in 2016.  And maybe we'll find we actually have a starter or three at that spot.  Would have liked to see more, earlier, from the two young draft picks, but that's just the way the NFL is.  Neither were drafted to be day 1 starters.

-Nice to see the TE's involved.  At all.  Looking forward to more of that.

-Defense (starting) looked pretty good, all things considered we do have ALOT of talent on the Defensive side of the ball.  Doubters can doubt, but talent wise this is not a 2-14 level of talent on the Defense, and they very likely will keep the Jets in games for a long while each week. The D-line and LB's are obviously talented and (if the scheme is good) should generate pressure.  The two young safeties were....well, they played, I guess.  I didn't notice them making any impact, but that's Safeties for you.  It's not criticism of them, it's just that safeties can only do so much.  Corner is still a sore spot/weakness, but like at WR I think we simply have to let this year play out, and let whatever talent we have there earn a spot in the longer future (or not).  Overall, the D looked and played pretty well.  Lets hope it wasn't just PS Game #1 vanilla luck, and that this unit may recover from it's near-worst-in-NFL debacle of last year.

-Apart from welcoming back the dink-dunk West Coast offense (memories of Chad), I have little comment on Coaching.  It's preseason game #1, there really wasn't much coaching going on.  We weren't bad on penalties for a PS #1 game, so that's good.  But otherwise, it was bland vanilla all the way round, on both sides, so judging Bowles and Co. is impossible as yet.

-What I will say is that the team appears more unified, and less broken, than last year.  Dumping the Veterans was almost assuredly the right call for this franchise, and will pay dividends in the long term.  Hopefully the few remaining unhappy campers (Sheldon?) can hold their sh*t together long enough to not destroy the locker and the youth movement this year.  Bowles unquestionably lost this team last year, any denial is pure PR, so Bowles better ensure he doesn't lose it again with a roster almost 100% full of kids.  His future is (and should) be on the line in this aspect.

Specials looked, typical.  I.e. weak.  No returns of note really.  Punting was bleh.  And the new kicker has leg, but his accuracy is still TDB.

In conclusion, not a horrible first Preseason game.  Would have liked to see more points, but that's typical of opening PS games, where the D is usually far ahead of the O at this stage.  I liked seeing Hack get material playing time, and that he played, generally, pretty well and seems to get the offensive system.  His long balls need a metric sh*t ton of work, but that's not impossible to improve.  The fact (IMO) that McCown is clearly the #1 is a bit disappointing but expected honestly.  I doubt we see Hack start till either mid-season or later (once we're out of contention) or unless McCown gets hurt.  If we compete, and McCown stays healthy, this could easily wind up as Redshirt year #2 for Hack (not that that helps us know what to do next draft).

I'll say this, I agree with the players, this team is not cashing it in, nor planning on losing on purpose, no matter what fans (or even the GM) may want.  They are young, fast, hungry and will play hard, and will likely play with "wants to earn a damn job" passion for at least the first half of the year if we can stay even remotely competitive.  The D will keep us in alot of games (or it should) and the O might just surprise if the Running game, O-line and WR's show a little something (I know, there is ALOT in flux on O this year).  

Looking forward to seeing how this roster starts to pan out going through PS Games #2 and #3.  We may suck this year, but we won't (I think) be boring, and we'll have ALOT of young players to watch develop, and really, that's about the best we realistically can hope for in 2017.

didn't watch so relying on the observations of others.  i think some of your observations are right.  the vet weren't doing much last season and now they have players who want to be there no matter if they are playoffs bound or not.  that's huge because it won't take much for bowles to win this team over.  and if bowles knows the game as much as he should then maybe he's the right guy going forward.   obviously it's still only one preseason game.  let's see if this team can maintain cohesiveness for the season.  if so then maybe we are going to see a good team developing.

[joewilly12]

The RB position worries me. 

[jason423]

Id agree with you on the rotation. I think the only way McCown loses the job is if he gets hurt (always a good chance with him) or Hackenberg is great, which he was not last night. The offense with him certainly was very Chad like. Nothing like a 3rd and 5 and a 3 yard pass to the outside. Still it was overall positive given where he was at last year. 

The running game was bad though I dont know how much of that blame goes to the backs and how much to the O-line. The back never really tried to hit the line hard and ran more like you see in college trying to just go sideline first and then turn up the field where there is less traffic. That rarely works in the NFL. Again I dont know whose fault that was but I thought the runner was doing a poor job.

I dont fully agree on the defense. The team has a good line but I dont know much about the linebackers and I think the corners are bad. One thing I noticed early in the game last night was that the coaches werent trying to force all the d-lineman on the field together and that I think will work better. They have a natural NT in McClendon and the team is far better off with him in that role half the time and rotating the three big name guys outside.  Its keeps everyone fresher and lets them play the positions that they are more natural in. 

 

[peebag]

34 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The RB position worries me. 

Really?  That's the only one?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

Really?  That's the only one?

Yes after last nights game I came away with that I realize Forte and Powell were absent but if either is injured during the season we have no depth. 

[Tinstar]

13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes after last nights game I came away with that I realize Forte and Powell were absent but if either is injured during the season we have no depth. 

 Forte has gone around the bend as far as NFL RBs go, and Powell is battling the dreaded neck injury .  RB is a huge concern, but I like what McGuire has to offer as a runner and a receiver . I don't think that kid can block me thou .

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Something tells me the stupid runs deep in his posts and thought process

Along with jif who just mindlessly neg reps my posts like a mindless child. 

[Fantasy Island]

4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes after last nights game I came away with that I realize Forte and Powell were absent but if either is injured during the season we have no depth. 

If only Cook had been available in RD 2, oh wait he was.

[Maxman]

21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Can you imagine if the S's and Hack play as Macc expected when he scripted these drafts?

All the moronic Hack sucks, sight unseen and S's are wasted picks, Macc is a f'n moron, you're a homer contingent will need to find a rock to crawl under.

 

one of the leading candidates just keeps neg reping me, follows me obsessed over every post.  

Why are you bringing this all up here? Let it go we are all Jets fans.

If the Jets win we will all be happy. End of story.

 

[JustInFudge]

My post game thoughts: Super Bowl or bust 

[Kleckineau]

16 hours ago, nicg4360 said:

That's an interesting question...I think NE is enjoying having two top notch QB's with Brady and Garrappolo.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Jimmy G has taken about 100 snaps in 3 years. Top prospect yes but unproven.

[Kleckineau]

12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The RB position worries me. 

Forte is washed up Mc should have never signed him and Powell is a solid #2 if his neck doesn't derail him.

[slats]

22 hours ago, RSJ said:

Maybe Thadude will spend more time paying attention to his middle school teachers

 

22 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Something tells me the stupid runs deep in his posts and thought process

These posts are no better, and maybe worse than the poster you're complaining about. Let's try to refrain from this sort of thing. 

[slats]

23 hours ago, Warfish said:

I expect to see a very standard preseason time allotment going forward, McCown plays the entire first and into the 2nd next week.  McCown plays three quarters in PS Week 3.  And one quarter or less in the last PS game.  Hackenberg gets the vast bulk of other playing time in PS wk.s 2 and 3, with Petty getting the trash time in the final PS game.  

This will be interesting to see. I'm hoping Hackenberg continues to get an outsized number of reps, and McCown's work remains limited. Your prediction that McCown will start thru midseason or beyond is my nightmare. I feel like the worst case scenario is McCown starting 2-2, and Bowles keeping him in the starting lineup under the best chance to win banner. They should be prepping Hackenberg to start ASAP. If he's not the opening day starter (and I don't expect him to be), he should be getting a solid third of the reps with the starters while he's in the backup role. 

Hackenberg completed 72% of his passes with two blatant drops. Have to be pretty happy about that from a guy who couldn't hit the ocean from a lifeboat last year. Short passes were supposed to be his problem, long passes not so much. So this isn't a concern of mine right now. I'd like to think (and I'd like to see) that he'll be more accurate deeper down the field when he's allowed to get in a rhythm throwing the football. 

The running game is a major concern. The defense could be the '85 Bears, but if the offense can't stay on the field it won't matter. I'm excited about all the youth on this team, too, but I'm not seeing that translate into too many wins. I agree that the team shouldn't add any aged veterans at the WR position, for example, but I also think that there will be drops and wrong turns from this group over the course of the year. They scored seven points Saturday and was really only because of one long gainer. They punted tens times and attempted a 55-yard FG. I don't think McCown in extended action would've performed much better. They're still installing the offense, but the season is coming fast. I'd expect Powell and/or Forte to help, but they need to be able to extend drives. 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Forte is washed up Mc should have never signed him and Powell is a solid #2 if his neck doesn't derail him.

This to me good be Macc's biggest bungle.

16 minutes ago, slats said:

This will be interesting to see. I'm hoping Hackenberg continues to get an outsized number of reps, and McCown's work remains limited. Your prediction that McCown will start thru midseason or beyond is my nightmare. I feel like the worst case scenario is McCown starting 2-2, and Bowles keeping him in the starting lineup under the best chance to win banner. They should be prepping Hackenberg to start ASAP. If he's not the opening day starter (and I don't expect him to be), he should be getting a solid third of the reps with the starters while he's in the backup role. 

Hackenberg completed 72% of his passes with two blatant drops. Have to be pretty happy about that from a guy who couldn't hit the ocean from a lifeboat last year. Short passes were supposed to be his problem, long passes not so much. So this isn't a concern of mine right now. I'd like to think (and I'd like to see) that he'll be more accurate deeper down the field when he's allowed to get in a rhythm throwing the football. 

The running game is a major concern. The defense could be the '85 Bears, but if the offense can't stay on the field it won't matter. I'm excited about all the youth on this team, too, but I'm not seeing that translate into too many wins. I agree that the team shouldn't add any aged veterans at the WR position, for example, but I also think that there will be drops and wrong turns from this group over the course of the year. They scored seven points Saturday and was really only because of one long gainer. They punted tens times and attempted a 55-yard FG. I don't think McCown in extended action would've performed much better. They're still installing the offense, but the season is coming fast. I'd expect Powell and/or Forte to help, but they need to be able to extend drives. 

I think in the grand scheme of things the Jets know that Hack is not taking them to the playoffs this year.  But based on his development, rather than do an Aikman/Peyton Manning and have him play and lose all of his games, they will let McCown play, hopefully lose all his games, and let Hack develop more, hopefully starting by mid-season.

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

This will be interesting to see. I'm hoping Hackenberg continues to get an outsized number of reps, and McCown's work remains limited. Your prediction that McCown will start thru midseason or beyond is my nightmare. I feel like the worst case scenario is McCown starting 2-2, and Bowles keeping him in the starting lineup under the best chance to win banner. They should be prepping Hackenberg to start ASAP. If he's not the opening day starter (and I don't expect him to be), he should be getting a solid third of the reps with the starters while he's in the backup role. 

Hackenberg completed 72% of his passes with two blatant drops. Have to be pretty happy about that from a guy who couldn't hit the ocean from a lifeboat last year. Short passes were supposed to be his problem, long passes not so much. So this isn't a concern of mine right now. I'd like to think (and I'd like to see) that he'll be more accurate deeper down the field when he's allowed to get in a rhythm throwing the football. 

The running game is a major concern. The defense could be the '85 Bears, but if the offense can't stay on the field it won't matter. I'm excited about all the youth on this team, too, but I'm not seeing that translate into too many wins. I agree that the team shouldn't add any aged veterans at the WR position, for example, but I also think that there will be drops and wrong turns from this group over the course of the year. They scored seven points Saturday and was really only because of one long gainer. They punted tens times and attempted a 55-yard FG. I don't think McCown in extended action would've performed much better. They're still installing the offense, but the season is coming fast. I'd expect Powell and/or Forte to help, but they need to be able to extend drives. 

most runs vs tenn were predictable and intended for hack to get used to playing in a real game after a year off.  two plays by mcguire were called back for penalties.  the biggest problem with the run game is unproven wrs and qbs, and easy drops that kill drives that will lead to stacked boxes and daring either mccown or hack to beat them with these unproven wrs.  the wr spots are still very much up for grabs and those rookies may find themselves major contributors week 1, esp. with jenkins and j. marshall suspended.  

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Why are you bringing this all up here? Let it go we are all Jets fans.

If the Jets win we will all be happy. End of story.

 

Because no one seemed to care when Jet fans were feeding the story of how a QB they never saw would suck and blaming it all on Macc. 

[PepPep]

Ok, so I agree with most of the other things people have been talking about. 

I was looking for some specific things when watching this game.

1. The secondary: The secondary improved DRAMATICALLY, IMO. Those 8 sacks were in large part due to great coverage by both the safeties and CBs. Burris was out there MOST of the game, playing #2 and then moving over as the #1. I think he played into the end of the 3rd corner. He was VERY solid throughout. That is HUGE. Rookie safeties did not make many appearances on passing plays. This is GOOD. They were doing their job in coverage. This secondary is the biggest thing to get excited about IMO. It's like night and day and they're all young. 

2. WRs: TOO MANY DROPS! Granted, the starters were able to hold on to the ball. But as soon as the depth guys started getting targets, they simply could not hold on to the ball. With the WR depth so thin, this has to be a concern for Bowles. 

3. Bubble players: The following 'bubble' players stood out.

-M.Pennel: He did not record a sack and I'm not sure he even got a tackle but this guy was BEASTING on the O-line. For a while they were doubling him and he was still pushing guys back. I was impressed with his power. A lot of competition for those final spots on the D-line but he may earn one if he keeps playing like this. 

-Dexter McDougle: Great coverage. He was in the right spot at the right time whenever the ball came his way. You have to like his coverage skills and awareness on the field. Hopefully it was injuries only that were holding him back and now that he is healthy he can start making plays like he did at Maryland. There's a spot open for him as the 6th CB if he wants it bad enough. 

-Josh Martin: Apart from the starters, it looks like Martin might just be that secondary Pass rushing OLB. Seemed like he was constantly in the backfield, always around the ball, making plays and wreaking havoc. The LB depth is starting to take form...see below. 

-Julian Stanford: Stanford played great and I think barring injury or awful play the rest of preseason, he has pretty much solidified a spot on the roster. Just like Martin, he was all over the field, making plays and wreaking havoc.

-Doug Middleton: Middleton looked good all game. He did not make any flashy plays but he showed great range athleticism and an improvement in play recognition and awareness. He is not guaranteed a spot in the least bit, but he took one more step to earning one as a backup safety. Martin got an INT, and that was a great play, but I thought Middleton looked better overall. 

-Frankie Hammond: With multiple backup WRs having embarrassing drops, Hammond made his catches and stood out as a returner. That is how you earn a spot on the team. He will have to continue playing well, but looks like he may be the 6th WR, assuming Marshall maintains his roster spot. 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Because no one seemed to care when Jet fans were feeding the story of how a QB they never saw would suck and blaming it all on Macc. 

Yes nobody has been rooting for Hack. I guess I will have to delete every post of mine in order for that statement to be true.

The point is, we all need to root for the Jets. I hope that people are wrong about Hack. Not because I want to rub their noses in anything, instead because it will mean the Jets are good.

[JetBlue]

21 hours ago, SwanseaJack said:

So let's say Hack looks like a franchise QB but we still get a top 3 pick... you'd still go for another QB?

Depending on whom else is available (like say a franchise LT or Elite Pass Rusher) I trade the pick for a kings ransom. 

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Yes nobody has been rooting for Hack. I guess I will have to delete every post of mine in order for that statement to be true.

The point is, we all need to root for the Jets. I hope that people are wrong about Hack. Not because I want to rub their noses in anything, instead because it will mean the Jets are good.

I understood the Geno Smith hate, even if I didn't personally agree with it, has he did have several opportunities to play and built up a body of work.  With Hack, I could never understand how people could be so down on a guy who was drafted with the intention of being red shirted his first year.   I think the biggest issue is the fact that he went in the second round.  Had been drafted in round 4, I think there would be less "noise".   The point is I believe this kid has what it takes to be a franchise quarterback.  Having said that, it doesn't mean he will become one this year; he has a lot of work to do and we need to be patient.   

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Yes nobody has been rooting for Hack. I guess I will have to delete every post of mine in order for that statement to be true.

The point is, we all need to root for the Jets. I hope that people are wrong about Hack. Not because I want to rub their noses in anything, instead because it will mean the Jets are good.

Totally agree, we all,should be rooting for our team to succeed.  I didn't say I was rubbing anyone nose in it, just pointed out how silly all those posts claiming he sucked and Macc sucks will need to be updated

[HighPitch]

Dude a qb no matter what