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KRL

Learn From History

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I think the air it our mentality in this case comes from the fact that there are 3 potential franchise QBs in next years draft ripe for the taking.  I personally think that developing a QB nowadays over a period of 3 years is outdated.  These QBs coming out of college are more prepared than ever for the NFL.  

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After a crisp “game manager” performance by Hackenberg, the calls are starting about how it’s time for his education to speed up and how he needs to “air it out”. For once can people learn from history and stop rushing the process? From 2000-2014 this team has had three young QB’s become starters Pennington,
Sanchez and Smith.  The only one who had any real success was Pennington and I believe that was because he wasn’t rushed into the position.  Yes, Sanchez was in two AFC championship games but he never developed into anything other than a functional / decent QB.  Smith showed flashes of talent but turned the ball over too much and his immaturity (Jaw-Gate) led to his demise.

Hackenberg needs to hit each “landmark” the coaching staff puts in front of him with no skipped steps.  So far he’s improved his mechanics, improved his accuracy and displayed he can be an efficient game manager through ONE pre-season game.

We’ve been waiting for over 40 years for a Namath replacement, there’s no need to rush the process now just because the media wants material for a story.

Jets fans are sounding off, stop by our forums and let us know what you think about Christian Hackenberg.

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36 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

I think the air it our mentality in this case comes from the fact that there are 3 potential franchise QBs in next years draft ripe for the taking.  I personally think that developing a QB nowadays over a period of 3 years is outdated.  These QBs coming out of college are more prepared than ever for the NFL.  

2

This. 

I'd love for them to take their time with the kid, but the franchise needs to have a very good idea about him before next year's draft. Really, they have to be 100% sure about him if they're even thinking about passing on a QB next year. 

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14 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I just read Costellos article of "time to take the diaper off". And that the jets have babied him long enough.  It's unbelievable. Wtf is the rush?? This is what I hate about about the jets media. Pretty sure they're the only ones who do this just to make a nice headline. 

 

costello is a moron.  what he left out of the piece is that what the jets need most is front office stability.  they can chose qb's til the cows come home but if the gm/coaches are a revolving door then there's no point.  as for hack, he needs to get the short game so he can make those throws in his sleep.  he is supposed to have a good long ball.  that will come with time and opportunity.  but i do think they need to throw him in from week one.  there's no sense in starting mccown only to pull him by week 6.  of course that depends on how well he does over the next few weeks.

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Want a QB to fail?  Limit his play book to check downs and watch the other team jump every single route.

I simply do not believe in development via only training wheels dump offs and then progress to down field.  You have to develop both at the same time.

Also, all we have herd about this QB since he was drafted is he has a great arm now we can air it out!  So lets ignore a physical strength.

Also he needs to be put to the test on long throws, will he stand in there and take pressure to make a play?

 

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Want a QB to fail?  Limit his play book to check downs and watch the other team jump every single route.

I simply do not believe in development via only training wheels dump offs and then progress to down field.  You have to develop both at the same time.

Also, all we have herd about this QB since he was drafted is he has a great arm now we can air it out!  So lets ignore a physical strength.

Also he needs to be put to the test on long throws, will he stand in there and take pressure to make a play?

 

History says that's not true. 

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I think the speed of development for Hack is fine. People don't mention it, but as the game went on, Hack's confidence grew, he got more comfortable and that last series was a little more open and dynamic and would have likely led to a score without the bad snap.

The Jets also need to learn from history and not start McClown, not even for a game. The only way for Hack to continue developing is by playing as much as possible. I still feel that the QB situation within the Jets staff is fractured. I really feel Bowles wants McClown but is being forced to develop Hack. I suspect that Morton, Bates and McCoffee are in the Hack camp and Bowles is holding for the veteran. I think Bowles was given a direction, likely from Woody who has bought into the rebuilding concept, but is going to favor McClown as much as he can and this is why Bowles actions and words are not aligning,

 

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1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

I think the speed of development for Hack is fine. People don't mention it, but as the game went on, Hack's confidence grew, he got more comfortable and that last series was a little more open and dynamic and would have likely led to a score without the bad snap.

The Jets also need to learn from history and not start McClown, not even for a game. The only way for Hack to continue developing is by playing as much as possible. I still feel that the QB situation within the Jets staff is fractured. I really feel Bowles wants McClown but is being forced to develop Hack. I suspect that Morton, Bates and McCoffee are in the Hack camp and Bowles is holding for the veteran. I think Bowles was given a direction, likely from Woody who has bought into the rebuilding concept, but is going to favor McClown as much as he can and this is why Bowles actions and words are not aligning,

 

i agree, bowles has no incentive to suffer with a rookie qb, even if woody gave assurances that player development would determine his fate.  bowles is doing the right thing so far, toeing the line, probably hoping one of the 2 qbs makes a strong case one way or the other, thus his 'it will work itself out' comments.  we'll see how much playing time mccown gets in the next game.

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9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Want a QB to fail?  Limit his play book to check downs and watch the other team jump every single route.

I simply do not believe in development via only training wheels dump offs and then progress to down field.  You have to develop both at the same time.

Also, all we have herd about this QB since he was drafted is he has a great arm now we can air it out!  So lets ignore a physical strength.

Also he needs to be put to the test on long throws, will he stand in there and take pressure to make a play?

 

Make it sound like they tore out all the deep plays and threw them out. And that's it for the season. Going with Rex's red light green light strategy.

There's still camp and practices left. 3 games left...we could just wait before we judge. 

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I agree with KRL, but the Jets need to know what they have in Hack by the end of the year. This can't be a 3  year process for Hack. I am not suggesting he needs to throw for 300 yards in week 2 of the preseason, but we do need to know by the end of this season if Hack is the answer or if we need to grab one of the highly touted QBs in next years draft.  

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I rewatched the game last night, and Hack looked pretty reasonable IMO.  It seems like he executed the plays as they were supposed to be executed.  He threw to the open guy, his short passes were accurate and had lots of zip.  A couple of plays he looked down field, didn't see what he wanted, and checked down (without holding it too long).  Now, without the all-22, we have no idea if there *was* something down the field he should have thrown to - but we'll figure that out eventually.

WRT training wheels.  TBH, I think that game was a lot like what our offense is actually going to be.  Lots of short passes, look down the field occasionally, and take a few shots.  Hack still needs to work on the last part, which he didn't really try, and we don't know if it's due to coaching distrust or him being gun-shy.  Presumably / hopefully, next game will see some deeper throws.

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When we get some semblance of a running game in place, it will help open the field up for intermediate and long passes as well.  Last Saturday our rushers did not exactly inspire respect.

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A few problems with this "history" lesson:  

1. I am not in favor of waiting until a player's rookie contract expires to determine if he is serviceable at his position.

2.  If we go by history, history has all kinds of rules that plot against Hackenberg.  He isn't exactly ticking off all the Parcells mandates - think he only got one (3-year starter).  Completion percentage?  Thick skin?  This is a kid we didn't play because he was "shell-shocked" in college.  Small hands?  It bothered NoBowles, and I don't know how statistically relevant it is, but the success stories were Geno, Tannehill and Kaepernick.  Ouch.

ESPN researched that since 2008 there had been 39 quarterbacks who had been measured with a hand size of 9 1/4 or smaller; less than one-fifth of them had even gone on to start half a season in the NFL and none had made a Pro Bowl.

The fact that he looked okay Saturday is a sign of how low we have placed the bar.  He needs to look better, and he might.  We can't keep the training wheels on him forever.  This doesn't mean that I advocate having him air it out from here on out, but if by the end of this season people are still looking at it as Hackenberg will finally get his chance soon?  That is a total failure. His chance is now.  Seize it or get the **** out. 

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1 hour ago, BallinPB said:

I think the air it our mentality in this case comes from the fact that there are 3 potential franchise QBs in next years draft ripe for the taking.  I personally think that developing a QB nowadays over a period of 3 years is outdated.  These QBs coming out of college are more prepared than ever for the NFL.  

Most likely Hackenberg will be further along, and at worst, starter ready for '18 than any '18 drafted QB. 

The Jets will also know what they have in Hack as a person, student, teammate, his work ethic, if he's coachable etc...

im not sure your statement is accurate.  Most college QBs aren't NFL ready because most are playing in spread Os which doesn't translate to the NFL  

Let's see where things are after this college and NFL season. Who knows how these college QBs will turnout this yr.  Maybe they take it to the next level, plateau or regress. And the same can be said for Hack in regards to a NFL QB. 

Everybody wants answers now and that's just not how it works. Just enjoy the season and watching all the young players play/develop. 

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28 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Want a QB to fail?  Limit his play book to check downs and watch the other team jump every single route.

I simply do not believe in development via only training wheels dump offs and then progress to down field.  You have to develop both at the same time.

Also, all we have herd about this QB since he was drafted is he has a great arm now we can air it out!  So lets ignore a physical strength.

Also he needs to be put to the test on long throws, will he stand in there and take pressure to make a play?

 

It was one game. We'll see what they do beyond this. I've been in - and am still in - the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp regarding Hackenberg (or anybody), but as much as I kid about the unlikeliness of it happening, like everyone here I still want him to be the best QB in the league. 

The reality is this isn't all that different from Derek Carr's intro to live NFL action. Hell, we played against him in his first (non-preseason) game and personally I didn't see what the big deal was back then. Now granted, I didn't also see him throw one pass in college either, so it was all I had to go on. But despite the adequate completion rate (63%) he still moved the ball like it was a running game, at a pathetic 4.7 yds/attempt, and even that embarrassing number was meaninglessly inflated by Oakland's final, garbage-time drive that ended in a crazy 30-yd TD catch on an off-target throw. Prior to that throw, on his first 31 attempts, Carr managed 121 passing yards on 19 completions. And this is almost every football fan's favorite young QB.

Would Hackenberg have continued to taking the checkdown instead of taking chances downfield if we were down 2 scores with <3 minutes left in a game that counted? Maybe, but it's unlikely. Is he going be pro bowl 2015-David Carr next year, or even better 2016-Carr in 2 years? Even more unlikely. I still have low confidence in Hackenberg, but it's the first preseason game of the year, and we have little else to watch with actual interest this year given this roster's actual chances. Their distance aside, at least the throws he made were on target, and he exited the huddle properly. Baby steps lol.

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Hack did what was asked of him Saturday by those in charge. It may not fit the fans or medias agenda (who I am convinced want to see him suck) but I'll put faith in the coaches, especially Bates, who has helped develop other QBs, before those that only see snipets of what Hack has done. 

This is like criticizing a 22 yr old who has played a few MLB exhibition games and only hit singles and doubles.  "But he hasn't hit a HR yet". 

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47 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Here's the thing with this logic: these QBs are all different people. There is no magic formula or it would have been figured out by now, given a far larger aggregate sampling than merely Pennington-Sanchez-Smith. Even 3 out of 3 working out, being brought along at the same pace, or 3 out of 3 failing under the same circumstances, proves nothing. It may mean that this or that individual QB needed more time to develop; it may mean that all or none of them were destined successes or failures regardless of the speed of introduction to the pro game. 

For some QBs, you throw them to the wolves right away - or just about right away - and they're fine or better than fine immediately (e.g. current/recent starters like Wilson, Dak, RGIII, Roethlisberger, Mariota, etc.); for others, they're fine after a brief, initial rough period (e.g. both Mannings, Flacco, etc.); still others, who are throw in very early as rookies, require multiple seasons before they proved even moderately acceptable as starters (e.g. Brees, Alex Smith, etc.).

Imagine the waste of keeping Russell Wilson on the bench for a full 1-2 seasons. The goal is not to develop a QB by any means necessary just for the sake of doing so; the goal is to acquire or develop a QB for the betterment of the team, to win a SB. Seattle could have brought Wilson along very slowly like Aaron Rodgers, and it would have cost them a SB win in the process. Likewise, teams have brought well-regarded and/or high-upside QB prospects along slowly and it ultimately still made no difference (e.g. Brady Quinn, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallett, Brian Brohm, Kellen Clemens, maybe Paxton Lynch, etc.).

Whatever the paths or outcomes of Pennington or Sanchez or Smith, there is no one simple/obvious recipe to be followed for all prospects.

No disagreement, that is why the mantra of lets not rush him its okay to check down does not automatically wash.  

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41 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I agree with KRL, but the Jets need to know what they have in Hack by the end of the year. This can't be a 3  year process for Hack. I am not suggesting he needs to throw for 300 yards in week 2 of the preseason, but we do need to know by the end of this season if Hack is the answer or if we need to grab one of the highly touted QBs in next years draft.  

I don't care if Hack looks like the next coming of Dan Marino - the Jets need to get one of the top QBs in this coming draft.

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11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The fact that he looked okay Saturday is a sign of how low we have placed the bar.  He needs to look better, and he might.  We can't keep the training wheels on him forever.  This doesn't mean that I advocate having him air it out from here on out, but if by the end of this season people are still looking at it as Hackenberg will finally get his chance soon?  That is a total failure. His chance is now.  Seize it or get the **** out. 

I don't totally disagree, but it makes no difference what you or I or any fans here say. If he ends up being a true success, doubtful as I am this will be what happens, I really won't care if he was an embarrassment as a rookie and is a dumpoff puss in year 2. Not even if it indirectly costs us our 1st round pick next year, in the form of drafting a QB we ultimately didn't need. If he is a dumpoff queen all year and then we go with someone else next year, so be it. The rookie still has to beat out Hackenberg next spring/summer.

Barring injury (of course), a QB's career - particularly a young QB like Hackenberg - is long enough to not lament that lost pick forever, especially if we were just going to take a meh position like a TE or another non-edgerushing LB. If the QB selected in 2018 is any good, word gets around fast and we should get a #1 pick back easy, even if a boob like Maccagnan is the one brokering the deal.

The real downside to worry about, if one wanted to draw the parallels to the 2003-2006 Chargers, is the team drafts a 1st round QB to replace the 2nd round QB, and ultimately lets go of the wrong one between the two in favor of the shiny new thing. I would hope we'd learn from that lesson, that one doesn't let go of a pro bowl QB because one thinks/hopes the newer guy who's never played yet will be an even better pro bowl QB. Even their situation was muddied a lot, though, by Brees tearing his labrum a week or so before the deadline for franchise tag designations, with doctors telling the Chargers his career was likely over.

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8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No disagreement, that is why the mantra of lets not rush him its okay to check down does not automatically wash.  

Again, and I say this as someone who hasn't at all been making excuses for Hackenberg for the past year, I watched Derek Carr do that for almost his entire rookie entire season. 

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