Film Review: Christian Hackenberg (Failure): Preseason Week 1 (Titans)

[JetNation]

Christian Hackenberg certainly had his moments in the pre-season game against the Titans, and there were instances when his teammates let him down, but he also did have a good amount of bad plays in this game.  Developing a young QB is nerve wrecking because there are inevitable growing pains and Hackenberg certainly displayed a few in this game.

Failure:

1) 

This play starts off well with Hackenberg going through progressions and trying to hold the defense as he looks at the middle of the field.  The play completely unravels when he decides to go for the screen pass.  The screen pass is delayed to an extent because Hackenberg needs to shift his feet to create an open lane, but he sidearms the ball, and throws while essentially jumping sideways.  The ball sails on Hackenberg, which causes the running back to leap and turn to make the catch.  Not only does the leap cause the receiver to lose momentum, it allows for extra time for defenders to surround the receiver.  This is just bad mechanics as well as bad ball placement from Hackenberg, and he showed similar tendencies in college with screen passes.   The Jets are actually set up well for this screen pass (Anderson presumably runs a clear out on the right side of the formation) as they have blockers set up to create openings.  Unfortunately, the bad pass allows the defenders to close the gap and stop the play cold.

2) 

On a critical third down play for the Jets, Hackenberg gets “quick feet” in the pocket, and abandons the protection too early.  He misses an open TE running a crossing route, as he’s escaping the pocket.  Hackenberg did show on other plays that he will stand tall in the pocket, but on this play, he bails out too early.   Another issue on this play is running back Elijah McGuire, because he doesn’t run a route on this play.  He’s acting as the safety valve on this play for a screen pass, but as soon as he sees Hackenberg move out of the pocket, he runs up the field to block.  If the RB slants to the inside, one of two things will happen.  Either, the defender will stay and try to block Hackenberg, thus a passing option would be open (albeit, Hackenberg will have to throw across his body) and they could possibly get a first down.  If the defender follows McGuire, then it achieves the same result as blocking, which would result in a running lane for Hackenberg.  In a meaningless pre-season game, there is no need for Hackenberg to take a hit, so he runs out of bounds.  The main fault on this play lays at the feet of Hackenberg, as he escapes the pocket too early, with a slight amount of blame falling towards McGuire.

3) 

This is a play that is very familiar to Jets fans, if you followed the Bryce Petty film breakdowns from last year.  Single high safety with man coverage across the board?  Take the deep pass down the sideline.  The single high safety means that they aren’t going to be able to make a play on a pass down the sideline, thus giving the offense a one on one look for a large chunk of yards.  Unfortunately, Hackenberg makes a terrible throw as it sails out of bounds.  It doesn’t help that the receiver doesn’t get any separation whatsoever on this play.  Frankie Hammond (the receiver) ran a 4.4 forty yard dash in college, so why can’t he get separation on this play?  It’s his route running.  Notice how Hammond tries to set up the CB on this play, as he gives away his route far too early.   Hammond does a hop off the line, which doesn’t force the issue with the corner back, and then takes a big step with his left leg to plant, and then run the outside route.  The lack of speed (lost momentum with the hop) and early indication of turning outside meant that the defender could turn around quickly and still keep pace.  Hammond should not do the big hop because it forces him to lose momentum on a route where he has to rely on out-running his defender to a spot.  If he’s running a slant or out route and wants the defender to guess, then a large hop step may become beneficial.  Unfortunately, this meant that Hammond was just starting to gain  speed again, which negated any advantage he’d gain by having the defender turn around.  All of this does not matter because Hackenberg makes a horrible throw to begin with.

4) 

On the last play, you noticed how taking a large plant on a deep route hurt the receiver.  On this play, Charone Peake takes a large plant step, which helps him create horizontal separation for the quick pass.  He runs a crisp route, and is open for the easy first down, but Hackenberg has the ball batted down.  It’s an unfortunate result, but the QB has to take the blame when a pass is batted down.  The play is cut off for size purposes, and so you can avoid seeing the offensive lineman trying to catch the ball like kids in the outfield at the Home Run Derby.

5) 

Remember the play from “Team Failure” where the Jets ignored a triple receiver set on one side of the field, to set up a screen pass? Well this is the second time they couldn’t execute that play, and Hackenberg makes the wrong choice again.  The Jets are playing it conservatively at the end of the first half, but Hackenberg has predetermined this screen pass from the start.  This might bring shades of Ryan “One Read” Fitzpatrick, but Hackenberg just does not go through his progressions, and looks for the screen pass early.  When Hackenberg turns for the screen pass, the LBs realize what is going on and move towards the receiver, shutting down this play.   It doesn’t help that the running back decides to chip block a defender without any reason.  On most screen passes, it’s advised to let the defenders move up into the pocket so they can’t turn around and be a part of the tackle.  The running back not only makes a useless block, it throws off the timing of the play as well.  Ultimately, this failure has to go to Hackenberg because he made the wrong read at the line.  It also doesn’t help that he made a bad screen pass throw (low) again, causing further delay.

6) 

Good read, bad play scenario.  The Jets need two yards to get a first down, and Hackenberg sees that the defender is playing off the receiver.  This is the correct read for a quick pass, especially when the defense is expecting run.  However, the defender makes a great play with the tackle.  The throw is a bit up the field, but part of the blame has to go on Wilson because this is bad route set up again.  Most receivers (even down in college) are taught to take a step or two up the field, and then bounce back for the screen pass.  This forces the defender to freeze on the first two steps, and allows time for Hackenberg to start and complete the throwing windup.  In this case, Wilson doesn’t take any steps forward, which causes the defender to realize it’s a wide receiver screen pass earlier in the process and make a play on it.  If Wilson had taken a couple of steps forward, it would have allowed him space (upon jumping back) to possibly get around the defender.  This is one of the downsides of taking young receivers and cast offs because they are not technically sound.  In this game, Wilson displayed few scenarios where he showed a lack of refinement in route running.

7) 

Single high safety with press cover?  Where are they going?  Deep pass down the sideline.  As with the last time, Hackenberg misses the pass.  There is an argument to be made about this being pass interference but the contact seems to be going both ways.  Hammond does a better job getting off the line this time, but still can’t achieve separation down the field.  He’s tightly covered, and it’s possibly a good thing that Hackenberg’s throw wasn’t on target.  Hackenberg also stares down his first read from the start, and doesn’t go through progressions once it was evident that Hammond was well covered.  This is not only a bad throw by Hackenberg, it’s a terrible read on his progressions.

Conclusion:

Christian Hackenberg certainly had his moments in the first game, but he showed that there is a lot of room for improvement.  He needs to learn to go through his progressions better, and also read the defense better at the line.  The times that he did take shots down the field, not only were the throws bad, but the receivers were well covered.  This might change with better receivers, but also shows that Hackenberg as hesitant to go through progressions at times.

Overall Grade: B-

Hackenberg did not fall on his face, as many expected, and he was let down by some of his receivers.  He showed markedly improved mechanics and limited his mistakes.  The game plan seemed overly conservative at times, and included many short and safe passes.  Hackenberg showed bad signs with screen passes and deep passes, which needs to be improved before he can even be considered a reliable starter.  For a young developing QB, it’s a B-, but he has to show signs of improvement next week.

Forum Question(s):

A.  Assuming Anderson/Stewart/Hansen/Peake are safe for the roster, who are the others to make the roster?  How many receivers will they carry?

B.  How would you rate Hackenberg’s performance? 

 

 

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[JetFanatic]

Wow good stuff.  I would rate Hackenberg's performance a B-.  I like what I'm seeing from Hackenberg.  Let's not forget this is the same kid that NO ONE was giving a chance to succeed.  No one.  Sadly it sounds like he was mishandled by Chan Gailey who probably knew he wasn't sticking around for long and didn't want to waste his time developing a young QB.  I'll take the baby steps with him so long as he shows improvement every day and that's what it sounds like he's doing to me.  Let's just hope he improves in the next game against the Lions and lets see the playbook open up for him.  That'll be a good sign that he's really in fact progressing.

In regards to the receivers;  I think they'll end up carrying 6.  Anderson/Stewart/Peake/Hansen/Harper (this kid has earned a spot in my eyes) /Hammond.  I'm contemplating if I should add Wilson to the receivers list bringing it up to 7 because I have a sneaky suspicion that Petty is getting axed.

[joewilly12]

Christian Hackenberg looked pretty damn good for a player who barely ever took an NFL snap before. 

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, JetFanatic said:

Wow good stuff.  I would rate Hackenberg's performance a B-.  I like what I'm seeing from Hackenberg.  Let's not forget this is the same kid that NO ONE was giving a chance to succeed.  No one.  Sadly it sounds like he was mishandled by Chan Gailey who probably knew he wasn't sticking around for long and didn't want to waste his time developing a young QB.  I'll take the baby steps with him so long as he shows improvement every day and that's what it sounds like he's doing to me.  Let's just hope he improves in the next game against the Lions and lets see the playbook open up for him.  That'll be a good sign that he's really in fact progressing.

In regards to the receivers;  I think they'll end up carrying 6.  Anderson/Stewart/Peake/Hansen/Harper (this kid has earned a spot in my eyes) /Hammond.  I'm contemplating if I should add Wilson to the receivers list bringing it up to 7 because I have a sneaky suspicion that Petty is getting axed.

Thanks.  

I think that's the grade I ended up with as well.  I just don't understand the lack of planning last year (or this year honestly with McCown) because the team is doing everything it can to stunt QB development.  Last year, it was bringing back Fitzpatrick and then refusing to bench him, when there were other options available to us.  I would like to see how they open up the game, because the west coast does run a fair share of quick throws as the base model.  The longer throws are also based heavily on timing, which makes me wonder if they aren't satisfied with his footwork quite yet.  

I don't think Petty is getting axed because most teams carry 3 QBs, especially with McCown being injured often.  I'd like to see more of Harper and the younger kids.  I wasn't impressed with Hammond much at all, I thought he had bad routes and didn't seem to be getting separation.  I don't think the last receiver is on the roster right now. I think they'll carry 6, with Marshall on the suspended list.  

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Christian Hackenberg looked pretty damn good for a player who barely ever took an NFL snap before. 

He looked decent, but I would like to see him take more chances and see how he performs.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Agree on his tendency to dump off too quickly to first option, however I also was very aware of a number of very poor blocks, offensive line collapsing around him, and high snaps from the center that will tend to throw off a QB's rhythm. The OL did not look good in these videos.

[DetroitRed]

Did you ever see a video of Brady staring at and throwing to one receiver ? I see them all the time, lol. Just an observation

[JETSfaninNE]

Well done analysis.  Only thing I'd really disagree on is putting blame on Hack for a batted ball at the line.  Imo that responsibility falls on the Olineman, he is responsible for keeping the hands down of the man he is blocking.

[Jetdawgg]

Bro, these are very well produced productions. You're eye for detail is uncanny.

Peake has improved his route running for sure. His TD catch was a beauty. 

I would like to see more of Harper. He looked good in his NYJ debut.

i give Hack a C+ after reviewing your well appreciated efforts on the site.

[NoBowles]

5 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Did you ever see a video of Brady staring at and throwing to one receiver ? I see them all the time, lol. Just an observation

Brady absolutely does stare down his receiver often. The difference is his offense is brilliantly designed to get that one receiver open a very high percentage of the time. Brady knows how fortunate he is to have Bellicheck as his HC, it's why he has always taken much less money to stay around. I don't think Brady would have been anywhere near the Brady we know of now if not for Bellicheck, and also if not for cheating.

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Brady absolutely does stare down his receiver often. The difference is his offense is brilliantly designed to get that one receiver open a very high percentage of the time. Brady knows how fortunate he is to have Bellicheck as his HC, it's why he has always taken much less money to stay around. I don't think Brady would have been anywhere near the Brady we know of now if not for Bellicheck, and also if not for cheating.

There's a difference between staring a receiver down of a pre-snap read, and staring down a receiver based on the play design. On a short throw, off a read its fine because it happens so fast and actually allows for more YAC, but when you do it like Geno, Fitzsucktrick and Sanchez did it, just based on the primary receiver for the play it leads to pick sixes and lots of turnovers. From what I could see, Hack was doing the former which is fine. Too bad out stubborn head coach will not play him, I think Hack could finally be the guy. But Bowles will go with Fitz 3.0 and wreck the rebuild. Say what you want about longevity at the HC position but Bowles should NOT be here for a rebuild. Just not in his DNA. From some of the soundbites it sounds like Morton is reluctant to play "still a rookie" as well.

Accepting Mediocrity Should be the Jets motto. Its what we do if McClown takes even a single starting snap.

[whodeawhodat]

Hell of a job by the right side of the line, especially the RT.

 

Failure:

1) 

This play starts off well with Hackenberg going through progressions and trying to hold the defense as he looks at the middle of the field.  The play completely unravels when he decides to go for the screen pass.  The screen pass is delayed to an extent because Hackenberg needs to shift his feet to create an open lane, but he sidearms the ball, and throws while essentially jumping sideways.  The ball sails on Hackenberg, which causes the running back to leap and turn to make the catch.  Not only does the leap cause the receiver to lose momentum, it allows for extra time for defenders to surround the receiver.  This is just bad mechanics as well as bad ball placement from Hackenberg, and he showed similar tendencies in college with screen passes.   The Jets are actually set up well for this screen pass (Anderson presumably runs a clear out on the right side of the formation) as they have blockers set up to create openings.  Unfortunately, the bad pass allows the defenders to close the gap and stop the play cold.

[ASH1962]

15 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Christian Hackenberg looked pretty damn good for a player who barely ever took an NFL snap before. 

I totally agree, what the hell does everyone want from this kid? He is doing and saying all of the right things, working hard from what I see and hear. Why is he the butt(fumble) of so many critical articles and negative posts? I just don't get it. Um, how long did Aaron Rodgers sit by the way? Good lord, give the kid a chance, he may surprise us all. It would be foolish to discard him at this point based upon Dick Cimini and Manush's articles.

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

I totally agree, what the hell does everyone want from this kid? 

Points. 

[win4ever]

9 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Agree on his tendency to dump off too quickly to first option, however I also was very aware of a number of very poor blocks, offensive line collapsing around him, and high snaps from the center that will tend to throw off a QB's rhythm. The OL did not look good in these videos.

Once the starters were out, the line didn't do the QBs any favor.  It's worse in the Petty where he got killed behind that line.

While you can argue the 2nd team or 3rd team is facing the other team's similar unit, it's a bit inverse for the offensive line.  Usually the offense holds the advantage in an equal match up because they know where the play is going, thus the defense is reacting.  So 2nd and 3rd string receivers get open more easily (assuming similar talent), which is how guys like Spadola/Gates look great against second tier guys but fizzle out later.  On the offensive line, it's inverse because the line is reacting to the defense, because the defense knows how it wants to attack, and the line is reacting.  So given similar talent, the defense is going to win out because it dictates the course of action.  Teams get around this with roll outs and screens, but in this game, the screen pass didn't really work well with Hackenberg.  I would like to see Hackenberg (and Petty) with the first team line, even against first team defense to see how they react and play.  

8 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Did you ever see a video of Brady staring at and throwing to one receiver ? I see them all the time, lol. Just an observation

A lot of QBs stare down receivers at times, and there are a few reasons.

1) Sometimes, there is only one real intended target on a play, while other receivers run clear outs or blocking patterns.  This usually means there is a running back or TE close to the line as the safety valve.   We see this a lot more in college than the NFL, but teams with dynamic receivers will dial up plays that try to get one on one match ups for their guy, and the QB will stare him down at times because he has no other read.  

2) The timing of the progression doesn't start at the top of the drop back.  While west coast principles (which we are using) tends to rely on the footsteps to correlate with timing and progression, it's not tied down to it.  Safeties seeing the top of the drop back can jump routes if it comes out consistently so there are variations as to when the progressions actually start.  A complex offense like New England has a ton options built into it, and doesn't really rely on one school of thought.

3.  NE (IMO) relies on option routes on a consistent basis.  Most teams read the defense at the line, make audibles and go from there.  I believe they make in play audibles by having the receivers think like the QB out there.  So if they call an out route, and there is zone defense to that area, the receiver may have the option to turn that into an in route, where there might be open space, or a go route.  I think it's why we see Brady yelling at his receivers at times, because they missed an easy throw and catch situation by picking the wrong option.  Also why they are much better against zone than man coverage.  For these option routes, Brady has to read where the guy will option to by taking a longer look at him, which causes the impression that he's staring them down.

4.  It's limited, Brady goes through progressions about as well as I've seen.  

5 hours ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Well done analysis.  Only thing I'd really disagree on is putting blame on Hack for a batted ball at the line.  Imo that responsibility falls on the Olineman, he is responsible for keeping the hands down of the man he is blocking.

Thanks.  

I don't know how to blame the OL for the guy though, because if he holds down the hand, it's holding.  It's a team effort, but I figure more of the blame goes on the QB.  I did like the read and if you extrapolate the play to see when the ball would have gotten to Peake, it looks like it would have gone for a first down (assuming accuracy and Peake actually catching the pass).

3 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Bro, these are very well produced productions. You're eye for detail is uncanny.

Peake has improved his route running for sure. His TD catch was a beauty. 

I would like to see more of Harper. He looked good in his NYJ debut.

i give Hack a C+ after reviewing your well appreciated efforts on the site.

Thanks.  Lol, I watch all these plays so many times while writing, natural to see random things.  

Peake is a wild card for me.  Last year in the scouting report, I said he was a slightly less athletic but more polished Stephen Hill with similar issues and strengths.  If he can actually get better with routes and pass catching, I think he'll surprise a few folks out there.  

I'm going to wait on Harper, but he did look good at times.  The guy that I really hope improves is Marshall, because he has that short field ability to elude the first man that we lack.  Also, one of Hansen/Stewart have to step up at some point.  

Interesting.  What are you looking for in Game 2 of the pre-season from him?

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Brady absolutely does stare down his receiver often. The difference is his offense is brilliantly designed to get that one receiver open a very high percentage of the time. Brady knows how fortunate he is to have Bellicheck as his HC, it's why he has always taken much less money to stay around. I don't think Brady would have been anywhere near the Brady we know of now if not for Bellicheck, and also if not for cheating.

I think Brady would be great anywhere, although he may not have been the all time great that he is now.  Brady is about as good as it gets as a pocket passer right now because he can make almost every throw with excellent accuracy.  There was a throw to Hogan (I think) in the SuperBowl where he's running up the seam and defender is right there with him, maybe a step back at most.  For almost any QB, that guy is covered.  He dropped in a throw right over the defender into Hogan's hands perfectly.  There are only a few QBs that can make those types of throws (Wilson is one of them) with accuracy, because the defense played that perfectly and still got burned.  NE helps him for sure because the offensive philosophy tends to be a step ahead of the league, but I can't trash the guy.  He's probably the best QB I've seen and I think he'd be great anywhere.  

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

There's a difference between staring a receiver down of a pre-snap read, and staring down a receiver based on the play design. On a short throw, off a read its fine because it happens so fast and actually allows for more YAC, but when you do it like Geno, Fitzsucktrick and Sanchez did it, just based on the primary receiver for the play it leads to pick sixes and lots of turnovers. From what I could see, Hack was doing the former which is fine. Too bad out stubborn head coach will not play him, I think Hack could finally be the guy. But Bowles will go with Fitz 3.0 and wreck the rebuild. Say what you want about longevity at the HC position but Bowles should NOT be here for a rebuild. Just not in his DNA. From some of the soundbites it sounds like Morton is reluctant to play "still a rookie" as well.

Accepting Mediocrity Should be the Jets motto. Its what we do if McClown takes even a single starting snap.

Fitzpatrick was quite possibly the worst QB I've ever seen in terms of not getting off the first read.  It was yell and scream at the line for 20 seconds, and if your number wasn't called, you may as well just walk up the field because Fitz was going to his first read no matter what.  I think the issue with Geno was that he never really had to make multiple read throws in college, so at least he had youth on his side. 

I really dislike Bowles, and honestly the moment he says McCown is the starter, Woody should fire him over Skype.  

2 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

Hell of a job by the right side of the line, especially the RT.

 

Failure:

1) 

This play starts off well with Hackenberg going through progressions and trying to hold the defense as he looks at the middle of the field.  The play completely unravels when he decides to go for the screen pass.  The screen pass is delayed to an extent because Hackenberg needs to shift his feet to create an open lane, but he sidearms the ball, and throws while essentially jumping sideways.  The ball sails on Hackenberg, which causes the running back to leap and turn to make the catch.  Not only does the leap cause the receiver to lose momentum, it allows for extra time for defenders to surround the receiver.  This is just bad mechanics as well as bad ball placement from Hackenberg, and he showed similar tendencies in college with screen passes.   The Jets are actually set up well for this screen pass (Anderson presumably runs a clear out on the right side of the formation) as they have blockers set up to create openings.  Unfortunately, the bad pass allows the defenders to close the gap and stop the play cold.

Lol, the RT got pushed like 7 yards back.

58 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Points. 

I think it'll come soon, I think the first step was limiting mistakes and they somewhat did that.  

[Jetdawgg]

Quote

Quote

 

 

Looking for more deep routes and points from Hack. 

[HessStation]

Play 1 would have been nice if Winters could hold his block.

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Brady absolutely does stare down his receiver often. The difference is his offense is brilliantly designed to get that one receiver open a very high percentage of the time. Brady knows how fortunate he is to have Bellicheck as his HC, it's why he has always taken much less money to stay around. I don't think Brady would have been anywhere near the Brady we know of now if not for Bellicheck, and also if not for cheating.

He is also excellent at reading the D and knowing who should be getting open.

[whodeawhodat]

25 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Once the starters were out, the line didn't do the QBs any favor.  It's worse in the Petty where he got killed behind that line.

While you can argue the 2nd team or 3rd team is facing the other team's similar unit, it's a bit inverse for the offensive line.  Usually the offense holds the advantage in an equal match up because they know where the play is going, thus the defense is reacting.  So 2nd and 3rd string receivers get open more easily (assuming similar talent), which is how guys like Spadola/Gates look great against second tier guys but fizzle out later.  On the offensive line, it's inverse because the line is reacting to the defense, because the defense knows how it wants to attack, and the line is reacting.  So given similar talent, the defense is going to win out because it dictates the course of action.  Teams get around this with roll outs and screens, but in this game, the screen pass didn't really work well with Hackenberg.  I would like to see Hackenberg (and Petty) with the first team line, even against first team defense to see how they react and play.  

A lot of QBs stare down receivers at times, and there are a few reasons.

1) Sometimes, there is only one real intended target on a play, while other receivers run clear outs or blocking patterns.  This usually means there is a running back or TE close to the line as the safety valve.   We see this a lot more in college than the NFL, but teams with dynamic receivers will dial up plays that try to get one on one match ups for their guy, and the QB will stare him down at times because he has no other read.  

2) The timing of the progression doesn't start at the top of the drop back.  While west coast principles (which we are using) tends to rely on the footsteps to correlate with timing and progression, it's not tied down to it.  Safeties seeing the top of the drop back can jump routes if it comes out consistently so there are variations as to when the progressions actually start.  A complex offense like New England has a ton options built into it, and doesn't really rely on one school of thought.

3.  NE (IMO) relies on option routes on a consistent basis.  Most teams read the defense at the line, make audibles and go from there.  I believe they make in play audibles by having the receivers think like the QB out there.  So if they call an out route, and there is zone defense to that area, the receiver may have the option to turn that into an in route, where there might be open space, or a go route.  I think it's why we see Brady yelling at his receivers at times, because they missed an easy throw and catch situation by picking the wrong option.  Also why they are much better against zone than man coverage.  For these option routes, Brady has to read where the guy will option to by taking a longer look at him, which causes the impression that he's staring them down.

4.  It's limited, Brady goes through progressions about as well as I've seen.  

Thanks.  

I don't know how to blame the OL for the guy though, because if he holds down the hand, it's holding.  It's a team effort, but I figure more of the blame goes on the QB.  I did like the read and if you extrapolate the play to see when the ball would have gotten to Peake, it looks like it would have gone for a first down (assuming accuracy and Peake actually catching the pass).

Thanks.  Lol, I watch all these plays so many times while writing, natural to see random things.  

Peake is a wild card for me.  Last year in the scouting report, I said he was a slightly less athletic but more polished Stephen Hill with similar issues and strengths.  If he can actually get better with routes and pass catching, I think he'll surprise a few folks out there.  

I'm going to wait on Harper, but he did look good at times.  The guy that I really hope improves is Marshall, because he has that short field ability to elude the first man that we lack.  Also, one of Hansen/Stewart have to step up at some point.  

Interesting.  What are you looking for in Game 2 of the pre-season from him?

I think Brady would be great anywhere, although he may not have been the all time great that he is now.  Brady is about as good as it gets as a pocket passer right now because he can make almost every throw with excellent accuracy.  There was a throw to Hogan (I think) in the SuperBowl where he's running up the seam and defender is right there with him, maybe a step back at most.  For almost any QB, that guy is covered.  He dropped in a throw right over the defender into Hogan's hands perfectly.  There are only a few QBs that can make those types of throws (Wilson is one of them) with accuracy, because the defense played that perfectly and still got burned.  NE helps him for sure because the offensive philosophy tends to be a step ahead of the league, but I can't trash the guy.  He's probably the best QB I've seen and I think he'd be great anywhere.  

Fitzpatrick was quite possibly the worst QB I've ever seen in terms of not getting off the first read.  It was yell and scream at the line for 20 seconds, and if your number wasn't called, you may as well just walk up the field because Fitz was going to his first read no matter what.  I think the issue with Geno was that he never really had to make multiple read throws in college, so at least he had youth on his side. 

I really dislike Bowles, and honestly the moment he says McCown is the starter, Woody should fire him over Skype.  

Lol, the RT got pushed like 7 yards back.

I think it'll come soon, I think the first step was limiting mistakes and they somewhat did that.  

idk, I think he set his feet about 5 yards back and was stout while occupying 2 DLinemen. talking about the RT.  The RG got a very nice chip in on the other DL.

[#27TheDominator]

Isn' it just typical screen pass blocking?  Basically sh*tty blocking is called for to suck the defenders upfield, past the play.  They leave the RT in to give just enough protection to get the pass off. Unfortunately, the pass/catch was not smooth and it took too damn long for the back to get the ball.  Winters had his guy, but didn't kill him and pulled off to avoid the holding penalty and he made the play. 

[JetFanatic]

18 hours ago, win4ever said:

Thanks.  

I think that's the grade I ended up with as well.  I just don't understand the lack of planning last year (or this year honestly with McCown) because the team is doing everything it can to stunt QB development.  Last year, it was bringing back Fitzpatrick and then refusing to bench him, when there were other options available to us.  I would like to see how they open up the game, because the west coast does run a fair share of quick throws as the base model.  The longer throws are also based heavily on timing, which makes me wonder if they aren't satisfied with his footwork quite yet.  

I don't think Petty is getting axed because most teams carry 3 QBs, especially with McCown being injured often.  I'd like to see more of Harper and the younger kids.  I wasn't impressed with Hammond much at all, I thought he had bad routes and didn't seem to be getting separation.  I don't think the last receiver is on the roster right now. I think they'll carry 6, with Marshall on the suspended list.  

He looked decent, but I would like to see him take more chances and see how he performs.  

I can sorta see the why in regards to the move with McCown.  The 'mentor' factor has to play a major role and it sounds like he's a legit good guy and is really taking in that mentor role which is good.  As far as continuing to play McCown over Hackenberg I kinda see why also.  It seems to me that 'tanking' is highly frowned upon in this league and throwing Hackenberg in there, while other teams do it with young QBs, just wouldn't be a good look right now given the coaching situation.  You can't put Hackenberg out there yet he's just not ready.  Granted, I honestly do believe that he's going to improve every game and actually end up starting the season.  If not, he'll be starting very soon after so as far as going out and naming him the starting QB for the season is just a bit premature at this point but what the hell do I know I'm just speculating.

Last year with Fitz was tough because he was so liked in the locker room and with Marshall and Decker being so close to him I honestly think the coaching staff was afraid of the backlash that would come with benching him.  Let's not forget just like young players need to adjust to the game so do new coaches and that's exactly what Bowles is.  He's still technically new at this head coaching job.  I also do think that he learned from it and is going about controlling the locker room very differently and so far I think it's working.

Good point about McCown and his injury history.  Maybe they do keep Petty around because of that which would be a smart move.  Harper is really impressive to me.  Great set of hands, he runs crisp routes and with all the dropsies these receivers have been having I haven't really seen his name associated with dropped passes.  I don't think Hammond is a good receiver, but he looks pretty good as the return man so maybe he carves out a role on this team doing that.

With all that said though I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how Hackenberg looks on Saturday.  

[JetFanatic]

5 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

I totally agree, what the hell does everyone want from this kid? He is doing and saying all of the right things, working hard from what I see and hear. Why is he the butt(fumble) of so many critical articles and negative posts? I just don't get it. Um, how long did Aaron Rodgers sit by the way? Good lord, give the kid a chance, he may surprise us all. It would be foolish to discard him at this point based upon Dick Cimini and Manush's articles.

Sadly I think people just need someone to bash on when it comes to the Jets.  I have no problem with the kid so long as he continues to work hard and progress.  I would love for him to turn out to be our franchise QB.  He has a cannon of an arm which is huge playing in New York come Nov/Dec/Jan and he's shown that he can be accurate.  He just needs to polish up things that young rookie QBs need to polish up and learn.  It looks like he is in great hands with the coaching staff and he's showing that he wants to learn so I'm willing to be patient.

[ASH1962]

6 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Points. 

Well tell your coach not to call run after run into the middle for losses on first and some second downs and to stretch the field once in a while. The QB runs the play that is called.

[thadude]

Not sure what the gloating was all about Hackenberg looked like Captain Checkdown Trent Edwards and then fumbled

[thadude]

7 hours ago, win4ever said:

Once the starters were out, the line didn't do the QBs any favor.  It's worse in the Petty where he got killed behind that line.

While you can argue the 2nd team or 3rd team is facing the other team's similar unit, it's a bit inverse for the offensive line.  Usually the offense holds the advantage in an equal match up because they know where the play is going, thus the defense is reacting.  So 2nd and 3rd string receivers get open more easily (assuming similar talent), which is how guys like Spadola/Gates look great against second tier guys but fizzle out later.  On the offensive line, it's inverse because the line is reacting to the defense, because the defense knows how it wants to attack, and the line is reacting.  So given similar talent, the defense is going to win out because it dictates the course of action.  Teams get around this with roll outs and screens, but in this game, the screen pass didn't really work well with Hackenberg.  I would like to see Hackenberg (and Petty) with the first team line, even against first team defense to see how they react and play.  

A lot of QBs stare down receivers at times, and there are a few reasons.

1) Sometimes, there is only one real intended target on a play, while other receivers run clear outs or blocking patterns.  This usually means there is a running back or TE close to the line as the safety valve.   We see this a lot more in college than the NFL, but teams with dynamic receivers will dial up plays that try to get one on one match ups for their guy, and the QB will stare him down at times because he has no other read.  

2) The timing of the progression doesn't start at the top of the drop back.  While west coast principles (which we are using) tends to rely on the footsteps to correlate with timing and progression, it's not tied down to it.  Safeties seeing the top of the drop back can jump routes if it comes out consistently so there are variations as to when the progressions actually start.  A complex offense like New England has a ton options built into it, and doesn't really rely on one school of thought.

3.  NE (IMO) relies on option routes on a consistent basis.  Most teams read the defense at the line, make audibles and go from there.  I believe they make in play audibles by having the receivers think like the QB out there.  So if they call an out route, and there is zone defense to that area, the receiver may have the option to turn that into an in route, where there might be open space, or a go route.  I think it's why we see Brady yelling at his receivers at times, because they missed an easy throw and catch situation by picking the wrong option.  Also why they are much better against zone than man coverage.  For these option routes, Brady has to read where the guy will option to by taking a longer look at him, which causes the impression that he's staring them down.

4.  It's limited, Brady goes through progressions about as well as I've seen.  

Thanks.  

I don't know how to blame the OL for the guy though, because if he holds down the hand, it's holding.  It's a team effort, but I figure more of the blame goes on the QB.  I did like the read and if you extrapolate the play to see when the ball would have gotten to Peake, it looks like it would have gone for a first down (assuming accuracy and Peake actually catching the pass).

Thanks.  Lol, I watch all these plays so many times while writing, natural to see random things.  

Peake is a wild card for me.  Last year in the scouting report, I said he was a slightly less athletic but more polished Stephen Hill with similar issues and strengths.  If he can actually get better with routes and pass catching, I think he'll surprise a few folks out there.  

I'm going to wait on Harper, but he did look good at times.  The guy that I really hope improves is Marshall, because he has that short field ability to elude the first man that we lack.  Also, one of Hansen/Stewart have to step up at some point.  

Interesting.  What are you looking for in Game 2 of the pre-season from him?

I think Brady would be great anywhere, although he may not have been the all time great that he is now.  Brady is about as good as it gets as a pocket passer right now because he can make almost every throw with excellent accuracy.  There was a throw to Hogan (I think) in the SuperBowl where he's running up the seam and defender is right there with him, maybe a step back at most.  For almost any QB, that guy is covered.  He dropped in a throw right over the defender into Hogan's hands perfectly.  There are only a few QBs that can make those types of throws (Wilson is one of them) with accuracy, because the defense played that perfectly and still got burned.  NE helps him for sure because the offensive philosophy tends to be a step ahead of the league, but I can't trash the guy.  He's probably the best QB I've seen and I think he'd be great anywhere.  

Fitzpatrick was quite possibly the worst QB I've ever seen in terms of not getting off the first read.  It was yell and scream at the line for 20 seconds, and if your number wasn't called, you may as well just walk up the field because Fitz was going to his first read no matter what.  I think the issue with Geno was that he never really had to make multiple read throws in college, so at least he had youth on his side. 

I really dislike Bowles, and honestly the moment he says McCown is the starter, Woody should fire him over Skype.  

Lol, the RT got pushed like 7 yards back.

I think it'll come soon, I think the first step was limiting mistakes and they somewhat did that.  

Phenomenal post

[win4ever]

10 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Looking for more deep routes and points from Hack. 

I agree, I think they need to take more deep shots.  My only problem is I can't really tell what the defense is showing, or what's happening because the broadcast tape just follows the ball.  I really wish they made the coach's tape available, because it's the best tool to evaluate, and pre-season is all about evaluation.  he two instances he did throw it deep to Hammond, he was extremely well covered in both cases.  It was actually a bad play to even throw it deep, which makes me wonder if anyone was really even open down the field.  I would like to see him throw deep with Anderson or Hansen or someone to see if they can get behind the corner.    

10 hours ago, HessStation said:

Play 1 would have been nice if Winters could hold his block.

I actually don't think he did bad on that play, because it's a screen pass.  I think he was supposed to engage the defender and then leave him to go block the LB on the screen.  The issue is that, the RT got pushed right into Hackenberg's path, which caused him extra delay in getting the pass off.  It doesn't help that Hackenberg makes a horrible throw, which further delays the issue.

10 hours ago, chirorob said:

He is also excellent at reading the D and knowing who should be getting open.

Brady and Bellichek are one of the best player/coach combos out there at making adjustments.  If A isn't working, they were willing to go to B and C.  I think that's what made it special with Rex, because his system was basically press cover with his corners saying you can't beat them one on one, and then playing the chess game with the other pieces.  Some games, Brady couldn't adjust, and some games the Jets defense fell apart.  

9 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

idk, I think he set his feet about 5 yards back and was stout while occupying 2 DLinemen. talking about the RT.  The RG got a very nice chip in on the other DL.

He got pushed back too much into the QB, which combined with Hackenberg's inability to get the pass out quickly ruined the play.  If the screen pass in on target to the RB on this play, it would go for a decent gain at least IMO.  

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Isn' it just typical screen pass blocking?  Basically sh*tty blocking is called for to suck the defenders upfield, past the play.  They leave the RT in to give just enough protection to get the pass off. Unfortunately, the pass/catch was not smooth and it took too damn long for the back to get the ball.  Winters had his guy, but didn't kill him and pulled off to avoid the holding penalty and he made the play. 

I think the RT got pushed too far in, while not pushing the guy inside.  Ideally, if you let the guy come that far in, you slant him to the inside, so when the screen pass occurs, you are now naturally blocking him from the runner.  He just let him get bull rushed, while still leaving the outside part open.  The majority of the flaw is still on Hackenberg, he needs to make a better throw, that was just a terrible screen pass.  

7 hours ago, JetFanatic said:

I can sorta see the why in regards to the move with McCown.  The 'mentor' factor has to play a major role and it sounds like he's a legit good guy and is really taking in that mentor role which is good.  As far as continuing to play McCown over Hackenberg I kinda see why also.  It seems to me that 'tanking' is highly frowned upon in this league and throwing Hackenberg in there, while other teams do it with young QBs, just wouldn't be a good look right now given the coaching situation.  You can't put Hackenberg out there yet he's just not ready.  Granted, I honestly do believe that he's going to improve every game and actually end up starting the season.  If not, he'll be starting very soon after so as far as going out and naming him the starting QB for the season is just a bit premature at this point but what the hell do I know I'm just speculating.

Last year with Fitz was tough because he was so liked in the locker room and with Marshall and Decker being so close to him I honestly think the coaching staff was afraid of the backlash that would come with benching him.  Let's not forget just like young players need to adjust to the game so do new coaches and that's exactly what Bowles is.  He's still technically new at this head coaching job.  I also do think that he learned from it and is going about controlling the locker room very differently and so far I think it's working.

Good point about McCown and his injury history.  Maybe they do keep Petty around because of that which would be a smart move.  Harper is really impressive to me.  Great set of hands, he runs crisp routes and with all the dropsies these receivers have been having I haven't really seen his name associated with dropped passes.  I don't think Hammond is a good receiver, but he looks pretty good as the return man so maybe he carves out a role on this team doing that.

With all that said though I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how Hackenberg looks on Saturday.  

I have no problems with mentors as long as the guy was actually good or made something out of nothing.  Who has McCown helped develop?  Same with Fitz.  I think Lovie Smith had the same idea of bringing in McCown to mentor Glennon, and it pretty much got him fired.  

For a mentor guy, I really believe in two types of guys.  One, guys that were limited on talent, but still made it work and became really good.  Someone like Chad Pennington, who was a good QB when healthy, even though he had limited arm strength.  He relied a lot on anticipation, reading the defense, and film study.  Qualities that I think can be passed onto others, while showing them how to perform.  Obviously, he's retired now, but he would have been one example.  Second, a guy that has been good, has been there and now is on the twilight of his career.  Maybe Alex Smith after this year, around 34, possibly declining, has been good in the past.  I don't like guys that have generally been bad through out their careers acting as mentors because they haven't really displayed anything that shows they've mastered the game.  Sure, every now and then, some guys that was a JAG turns into a great coach, but I think that's a very few number of them, because most players get out of the game and enjoy retirement.  

For McCown in his career, he has been around these young guys:

John Navarre:  Did pretty much nothing in his career.  

JaMarcus Russel:  We know how that ended.

Matt Moore:  Career Backup

Cutler:  Didn't really improve in Chicago, kinda flat as with his career in Denver

Mike Glennon:  Back up to Winston, now overpaid

Jhonny Manziel:  Out of the league

I don't see any instance where he helped facilitate the improvement of anyone.  He worked with Kessler/Hogan/RG3 last year, but I really doubt any of them start games this year.  I really just don't see that he can help these kids.  I had the same issue with Fitzpatrick, because he was a horrible QB.  What was he going to tell Petty?  "See tall No. 1 WR? Lob it up and hope he jumps!"? 

I wish the Jets wouldn't care what the NFL thinks in terms of tanking.  The Titans all but tanked for Mariota, and the Colts did so for Luck as well.  I don't even want them to tank, but I want to know if Hackenberg/Petty has what it takes.  If they do, great, we can compete this year, and our future looks brighter.  Might as well start from day 1.  If they don't, that's fine, reset the whole thing and get a QB.  With McCown, anything short of absolute greatness is a disservice to the team, because him leading us to an 8-8 season does nothing for us.  I think the whole season is about finding out if we actually have anything at QB, because physically both of them fit the profile of high end QBs.  It's the mental and mechanical parts that need to be sorted out.  I don't expect them to name a starter soon, but I have this weird feeling that Bowles will just go with the veteran like last year and it makes me not want to watch the game.  Honestly when I was doing these reviews, I didn't even look at the time McCown played, skipped right ahead because we already know what he is.  

Last year, I didn't think Hackenberg was ready.  I even mentioned in the scouting article, that I thought they needed to sit him and break him down because his mechanics are horrible.  I didn't want Fitz back, because I thought Geno was a much better fit for the system.  I agree, Marshall/Decker being friends with Fitz absolutely influenced the coaching staff and their decisions.  And Marshall all but quit once Fitz  was gone.  Hopefully it's different, but I kind of want Hack/Petty to play from the start so we have enough time to evaluate both of them.  I want 8 games for Hack to see if he's improving, and 8 games for Petty if Hack can't be any good, instead of 3 games at the end.  

To be honest, I haven't watched the return game so I don't know.  As a Jets fan, I'm usually happy if the ball is kicked through the end zone so we can start at the 25, lol.  As for punts, the best returns for us are usually when the ball bounces backwards.  I think Harper has a chance, going to try and see if I can pay more attention to the guys.  I had trouble with the numbers, actually had to keep a tab open with the rosters just to figure out who was out there.

Me too, I'm super excited to see them this Saturday and see how he progresses (or regresses).  Detroit had a horrible year last year against the pass (the only team worse than us according to DVOA) so some of the stats may be skewed.  

 

7 hours ago, JetFanatic said:

Sadly I think people just need someone to bash on when it comes to the Jets.  I have no problem with the kid so long as he continues to work hard and progress.  I would love for him to turn out to be our franchise QB.  He has a cannon of an arm which is huge playing in New York come Nov/Dec/Jan and he's shown that he can be accurate.  He just needs to polish up things that young rookie QBs need to polish up and learn.  It looks like he is in great hands with the coaching staff and he's showing that he wants to learn so I'm willing to be patient.

I think it's a function of the media, and the market.  Making fun of the Jets gets the other fans happy to see the Jets bashed day in and day out, especially after the Rex years.  The SOJF mentality (which exists with any fan base that has dealt with losing over a long period of time) causes the Jets fans to drown in the sorrow as well.  

He has all the talent to be a stud, but his mechanics and mental makeup will determine how far he could go.  

5 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Well tell your coach not to call run after run into the middle for losses on first and some second downs and to stretch the field once in a while. The QB runs the play that is called.

I think mainly they were trying to get the defense to loosen up a bit, but receivers weren't getting much separation.

2 hours ago, thadude said:

Phenomenal post

Thanks.  

[jeremy2020]

11 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Well tell your coach not to call run after run into the middle for losses on first and some second downs and to stretch the field once in a while. The QB runs the play that is called.

I don't want bowles. Please don't try to pawn him off on me. He's all yours.

[Smashmouth]

 Sorry but I don't like any of this analysis at all. Quick Feet ? With a LB coming full tilt and the pocket closing Hack showed great pocket presence to get out before it closed in completely When he looked up that backer was coming untouched up the Middle Hack made the right call to leave the pocket. 

On the screen play the throw could have been better but IMHO the back should have been turned to the inside not the outside and it think that's what threw Hack off. It seemed like Hack saw the defensive player taking away the outside and wanted the RB to take an inside route. 

The short passing game is by design in place to get hack more confidence and to get him in Rhythm . I hope the Jets never get to the point they are slinging the ball all over the field I hope they take what is given underneath and when the defense moves up they can strike deep. You don't just throw deep for no apparent reason. You throw deep when the defense over commits or you continue to suck them in with the short pass and running game. Watch the most explosive offense in the last ten years consistently and watch how they Nickel and dime you to death then strike deep. The Patriots run that style and if its good enough to Tom Brady to get himself in rhythm I'm guessing that's not a bad strategy for Hack.

When evaluating a QB it helps to know what plays are actually being called. Since we don't know this its hard to call someone a failure on plays you have no idea how they are designed. Im sure as the Pre-season moves on Hack will get more and more of the play book to work with .If he ****s that up then say what needs to be said, anything at this stage is really pre-mature in evaluating our young QB.

Why Hack is not getting the start in game two to get his chance to run with the 1's is just stupid and it shows the Jets might have no intentions of starting Hack when the season starts. So where thew **** is the so called QB competition ?? Thats what we should be worrying about right now not what we think plays should be or not be. 

[win4ever]

27 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

 Sorry but I don't like any of this analysis at all. Quick Feet ? With a LB coming full tilt and the pocket closing Hack showed great pocket presence to get out before it closed in completely When he looked up that backer was coming untouched up the Middle Hack made the right call to leave the pocket. 

On the screen play the throw could have been better but IMHO the back should have been turned to the inside not the outside and it think that's what threw Hack off. It seemed like Hack saw the defensive player taking away the outside and wanted the RB to take an inside route. 

The short passing game is by design in place to get hack more confidence and to get him in Rhythm . I hope the Jets never get to the point they are slinging the ball all over the field I hope they take what is given underneath and when the defense moves up they can strike deep. You don't just throw deep for no apparent reason. You throw deep when the defense over commits or you continue to suck them in with the short pass and running game. Watch the most explosive offense in the last ten years consistently and watch how they Nickel and dime you to death then strike deep. The Patriots run that style and if its good enough to Tom Brady to get himself in rhythm I'm guessing that's not a bad strategy for Hack.

When evaluating a QB it helps to know what plays are actually being called. Since we don't know this its hard to call someone a failure on plays you have no idea how they are designed. Im sure as the Pre-season moves on Hack will get more and more of the play book to work with .If he ****s that up then say what needs to be said, anything at this stage is really pre-mature in evaluating our young QB.

Why Hack is not getting the start in game two to get his chance to run with the 1's is just stupid and it shows the Jets might have no intentions of starting Hack when the season starts. So where thew **** is the so called QB competition ?? Thats what we should be worrying about right now not what we think plays should be or not be. 

That's perfectly fine, let's break it down.

Which play are you talking about with quick feet? I'm assuming No. 2, but I'm not sure.  

Which screen pass?  I'm not sure what you mean by turning inside.  I see both of them turning towards Hackenberg after getting to their spots, so again I'm not sure.  

Well I do make a similar point in the Success film review with Hackenberg, especially because these broadcast angle doesn't show what's happening down the field.  For all we know, these guys could be well covered.  On the two deep throws, the receiver Hammond was pretty much blanketed.  West coast systems rely on short passing games to to open up the field and allow guys to go deep.  I would like the Jets to take shots down the field, because that would mean the system is working and teams are adjusting.  The Pats do utilize the short game to open up the long game, but they do actually do it in practice and not theory.  If Hackenberg is taking shots down the field, it shows that the defense is moving up to stop the short passes and/or running game.  It gets more complicated behind second and third tier lines because they may not hold the defense off long enough for deep plays to materialize.  

All of it is guessing, because we never know what plays are called, for any game.  Theoretically, we can't know without being given access.  So it's guesswork based on the progressions, and opportunities presented, and then taken advantage of/missed.  If we have four receivers running the go route, and back staying back to block, we can safely assume the play call was 4 nine routes or the QB audibles to it.  

We can worry about that too.  Multi-level worrying.  I don't want to see McCown play at all, but for the purpose of this one, it was looking at the bad plays of Hackenberg in the past game.  

[Smashmouth]

39 minutes ago, win4ever said:

That's perfectly fine, let's break it down.

Which play are you talking about with quick feet? I'm assuming No. 2, but I'm not sure.  The play you Quoted "quick feet" probably meaning he left the pocket to early but you fail to mention the blitzing LB up the middle

Which screen pass?  I'm not sure what you mean by turning inside.  I see both of them turning towards Hackenberg after getting to their spots, so again I'm not sure.  

Well I do make a similar point in the Success film review with Hackenberg, especially because these broadcast angle doesn't show what's happening down the field.  For all we know, these guys could be well covered.  On the two deep throws, the receiver Hammond was pretty much blanketed.  West coast systems rely on short passing games to to open up the field and allow guys to go deep.  I would like the Jets to take shots down the field, because that would mean the system is working and teams are adjusting.  The Pats do utilize the short game to open up the long game, but they do actually do it in practice and not theory.  If Hackenberg is taking shots down the field, it shows that the defense is moving up to stop the short passes and/or running game.  It gets more complicated behind second and third tier lines because they may not hold the defense off long enough for deep plays to materialize.  

All of it is guessing, because we never know what plays are called, for any game.  Theoretically, we can't know without being given access.  So it's guesswork based on the progressions, and opportunities presented, and then taken advantage of/missed.  If we have four receivers running the go route, and back staying back to block, we can safely assume the play call was 4 nine routes or the QB audibles to it.  

We can worry about that too.  Multi-level worrying.  I don't want to see McCown play at all, but for the purpose of this one, it was looking at the bad plays of Hackenberg in the past game.  

Win to keep it short and sweet I just don't think this is the time to really be evaluating Hack. Its obvious they took it easy with him so its really hard to evaluate .If this was truly a QB competition the second string QB should be starting game two to show what he can do with the ones. But our Idiot HC is going to start McCown. This being the case why dosent he just come out now and say McCown is my starter and spare us the bullsh*t

Thank you for taking the time to do this play by play 

 

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Win to keep it short and sweet I just don't think this is the time to really be evaluating Hack. Its obvious they took it easy with him so its really hard to evaluate .If this was truly a QB competition the second string QB should be starting game two to show what he can do with the ones. But our Idiot HC is going to start McCown. This being the case why dosent he just come out now and say McCown is my starter and spare us the bullsh*t

Thank you for taking the time to do this play by play 

 

The issue for me with that play is that, his read from head movements is from Harper (3) to Jenkins, and then left of the formation (I think Marshall).  Once the LB blitzes (delayed blitz) the pass to Jenkins is open and he should take it, even though it's not a confirmed first down.  Once the LB abandons Jenkins, the pass was there for the taking, instead of bailing on the pocket.  

I think it's too early, but we have nothing else to go on.  I think the Hackenberg breakdown of him throwing passes at training camp was one of the more widely read lol.  

I hate Bowles, and I really hope we don't see McCown much at all besides an injury replacement.  Any game started by him is useless to the Jets now and the future.  

No problem, thanks.  

[Smashmouth]

9 hours ago, win4ever said:

The issue for me with that play is that, his read from head movements is from Harper (3) to Jenkins, and then left of the formation (I think Marshall).  Once the LB blitzes (delayed blitz) the pass to Jenkins is open and he should take it, even though it's not a confirmed first down.  Once the LB abandons Jenkins, the pass was there for the taking, instead of bailing on the pocket.  

I think it's too early, but we have nothing else to go on.  I think the Hackenberg breakdown of him throwing passes at training camp was one of the more widely read lol.  

I hate Bowles, and I really hope we don't see McCown much at all besides an injury replacement.  Any game started by him is useless to the Jets now and the future.  

No problem, thanks.  

I see what your saying here but Hack Didn't ....from his head movements he was looking down field to his right as soon as the LB blitzed he began running out of the closing pocket and never saw Jenkins who seemed to be a safety valve which is a later read or progression so that makes sense. The only way this play can be evaluated is by the coaching staff. The key is I don't think Hack felt that blitz was going to be picked up because the lineman who actually blocked the blitzer was already engaged, great play by that O lineman to pick that up.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 8/16/2017 at 2:30 AM, JetNation said:

Christian Hackenberg certainly had his moments in the pre-season game against the Titans, and there were instances when his teammates let him down, but he also did have a good amount of bad plays in this game.  Developing a young QB is nerve wrecking because there are inevitable growing pains and Hackenberg certainly displayed a few in this game.

Failure:

1) 

This play starts off well with Hackenberg going through progressions and trying to hold the defense as he looks at the middle of the field.  The play completely unravels when he decides to go for the screen pass.  The screen pass is delayed to an extent because Hackenberg needs to shift his feet to create an open lane, but he sidearms the ball, and throws while essentially jumping sideways.  The ball sails on Hackenberg, which causes the running back to leap and turn to make the catch.  Not only does the leap cause the receiver to lose momentum, it allows for extra time for defenders to surround the receiver.  This is just bad mechanics as well as bad ball placement from Hackenberg, and he showed similar tendencies in college with screen passes.   The Jets are actually set up well for this screen pass (Anderson presumably runs a clear out on the right side of the formation) as they have blockers set up to create openings.  Unfortunately, the bad pass allows the defenders to close the gap and stop the play cold.

2) 

On a critical third down play for the Jets, Hackenberg gets “quick feet” in the pocket, and abandons the protection too early.  He misses an open TE running a crossing route, as he’s escaping the pocket.  Hackenberg did show on other plays that he will stand tall in the pocket, but on this play, he bails out too early.   Another issue on this play is running back Elijah McGuire, because he doesn’t run a route on this play.  He’s acting as the safety valve on this play for a screen pass, but as soon as he sees Hackenberg move out of the pocket, he runs up the field to block.  If the RB slants to the inside, one of two things will happen.  Either, the defender will stay and try to block Hackenberg, thus a passing option would be open (albeit, Hackenberg will have to throw across his body) and they could possibly get a first down.  If the defender follows McGuire, then it achieves the same result as blocking, which would result in a running lane for Hackenberg.  In a meaningless pre-season game, there is no need for Hackenberg to take a hit, so he runs out of bounds.  The main fault on this play lays at the feet of Hackenberg, as he escapes the pocket too early, with a slight amount of blame falling towards McGuire.

3) 

This is a play that is very familiar to Jets fans, if you followed the Bryce Petty film breakdowns from last year.  Single high safety with man coverage across the board?  Take the deep pass down the sideline.  The single high safety means that they aren’t going to be able to make a play on a pass down the sideline, thus giving the offense a one on one look for a large chunk of yards.  Unfortunately, Hackenberg makes a terrible throw as it sails out of bounds.  It doesn’t help that the receiver doesn’t get any separation whatsoever on this play.  Frankie Hammond (the receiver) ran a 4.4 forty yard dash in college, so why can’t he get separation on this play?  It’s his route running.  Notice how Hammond tries to set up the CB on this play, as he gives away his route far too early.   Hammond does a hop off the line, which doesn’t force the issue with the corner back, and then takes a big step with his left leg to plant, and then run the outside route.  The lack of speed (lost momentum with the hop) and early indication of turning outside meant that the defender could turn around quickly and still keep pace.  Hammond should not do the big hop because it forces him to lose momentum on a route where he has to rely on out-running his defender to a spot.  If he’s running a slant or out route and wants the defender to guess, then a large hop step may become beneficial.  Unfortunately, this meant that Hammond was just starting to gain  speed again, which negated any advantage he’d gain by having the defender turn around.  All of this does not matter because Hackenberg makes a horrible throw to begin with.

4) 

On the last play, you noticed how taking a large plant on a deep route hurt the receiver.  On this play, Charone Peake takes a large plant step, which helps him create horizontal separation for the quick pass.  He runs a crisp route, and is open for the easy first down, but Hackenberg has the ball batted down.  It’s an unfortunate result, but the QB has to take the blame when a pass is batted down.  The play is cut off for size purposes, and so you can avoid seeing the offensive lineman trying to catch the ball like kids in the outfield at the Home Run Derby.

5) 

Remember the play from “Team Failure” where the Jets ignored a triple receiver set on one side of the field, to set up a screen pass? Well this is the second time they couldn’t execute that play, and Hackenberg makes the wrong choice again.  The Jets are playing it conservatively at the end of the first half, but Hackenberg has predetermined this screen pass from the start.  This might bring shades of Ryan “One Read” Fitzpatrick, but Hackenberg just does not go through his progressions, and looks for the screen pass early.  When Hackenberg turns for the screen pass, the LBs realize what is going on and move towards the receiver, shutting down this play.   It doesn’t help that the running back decides to chip block a defender without any reason.  On most screen passes, it’s advised to let the defenders move up into the pocket so they can’t turn around and be a part of the tackle.  The running back not only makes a useless block, it throws off the timing of the play as well.  Ultimately, this failure has to go to Hackenberg because he made the wrong read at the line.  It also doesn’t help that he made a bad screen pass throw (low) again, causing further delay.

6) 

Good read, bad play scenario.  The Jets need two yards to get a first down, and Hackenberg sees that the defender is playing off the receiver.  This is the correct read for a quick pass, especially when the defense is expecting run.  However, the defender makes a great play with the tackle.  The throw is a bit up the field, but part of the blame has to go on Wilson because this is bad route set up again.  Most receivers (even down in college) are taught to take a step or two up the field, and then bounce back for the screen pass.  This forces the defender to freeze on the first two steps, and allows time for Hackenberg to start and complete the throwing windup.  In this case, Wilson doesn’t take any steps forward, which causes the defender to realize it’s a wide receiver screen pass earlier in the process and make a play on it.  If Wilson had taken a couple of steps forward, it would have allowed him space (upon jumping back) to possibly get around the defender.  This is one of the downsides of taking young receivers and cast offs because they are not technically sound.  In this game, Wilson displayed few scenarios where he showed a lack of refinement in route running.

7) 

Single high safety with press cover?  Where are they going?  Deep pass down the sideline.  As with the last time, Hackenberg misses the pass.  There is an argument to be made about this being pass interference but the contact seems to be going both ways.  Hammond does a better job getting off the line this time, but still can’t achieve separation down the field.  He’s tightly covered, and it’s possibly a good thing that Hackenberg’s throw wasn’t on target.  Hackenberg also stares down his first read from the start, and doesn’t go through progressions once it was evident that Hammond was well covered.  This is not only a bad throw by Hackenberg, it’s a terrible read on his progressions.

Conclusion:

Christian Hackenberg certainly had his moments in the first game, but he showed that there is a lot of room for improvement.  He needs to learn to go through his progressions better, and also read the defense better at the line.  The times that he did take shots down the field, not only were the throws bad, but the receivers were well covered.  This might change with better receivers, but also shows that Hackenberg as hesitant to go through progressions at times.

Overall Grade: B-

Hackenberg did not fall on his face, as many expected, and he was let down by some of his receivers.  He showed markedly improved mechanics and limited his mistakes.  The game plan seemed overly conservative at times, and included many short and safe passes.  Hackenberg showed bad signs with screen passes and deep passes, which needs to be improved before he can even be considered a reliable starter.  For a young developing QB, it’s a B-, but he has to show signs of improvement next week.

Forum Question(s):

A.  Assuming Anderson/Stewart/Hansen/Peake are safe for the roster, who are the others to make the roster?  How many receivers will they carry?

B.  How would you rate Hackenberg’s performance? 

 

 

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Great analysis,  I only disagree with you on the second scenario where you said Hackenberg got out of the pocket too fast.  Seems to me that though the TE was getting open, the protection was also breaking down giving Hack no time to complete the pass.  He did well to escape and at least gain positive yardage, rather than take a big sack and loss of 10 yards.

Also its clear Hammond isn't Very good, but I don't think anyone expects him to make the team anyway.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 8/17/2017 at 0:56 PM, johnnysd said:

There's a difference between staring a receiver down of a pre-snap read, and staring down a receiver based on the play design. On a short throw, off a read its fine because it happens so fast and actually allows for more YAC, but when you do it like Geno, Fitzsucktrick and Sanchez did it, just based on the primary receiver for the play it leads to pick sixes and lots of turnovers. From what I could see, Hack was doing the former which is fine. Too bad out stubborn head coach will not play him, I think Hack could finally be the guy. But Bowles will go with Fitz 3.0 and wreck the rebuild. Say what you want about longevity at the HC position but Bowles should NOT be here for a rebuild. Just not in his DNA. From some of the soundbites it sounds like Morton is reluctant to play "still a rookie" as well.

Accepting Mediocrity Should be the Jets motto. Its what we do if McClown takes even a single starting snap.

I think this year is different, it's not about winning it's about developing talent.  Hack will start the Jacksonville game and beyond.  Crazy to send him out there week one before they can work the kinks out of the new offense, but equally crazy to not start him in the Jacksonville game forward.

[win4ever]

9 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I see what your saying here but Hack Didn't ....from his head movements he was looking down field to his right as soon as the LB blitzed he began running out of the closing pocket and never saw Jenkins who seemed to be a safety valve which is a later read or progression so that makes sense. The only way this play can be evaluated is by the coaching staff. The key is I don't think Hack felt that blitz was going to be picked up because the lineman who actually blocked the blitzer was already engaged, great play by that O lineman to pick that up.

I think we both agree that his first read is Harper (3) right?  He looks off to the left in his drop (This is to hold LBs/S because no route has actually developed at this point) then goes over to the slot receiver on his right.  He has protection, because only 5 defenders run at him, and he has 5 blockers as well.  The LB (DE, I'm not sure what the guy is) is just pulling a stunt where he wants to go from the outside or C gap, to the A gap, but the Jets have defenders there.  The center does a good job on doubling the guy in front of him, and then peeling off to get the guy pulling the stunt.  Prior to the play, the Titans show two LBs with the possibility of blitzing, and one of them comes on the play.  This means the short area to Hackenberg's right will have free space, which is also why he looks towards Harper.  When he sees the LB pulling the stunt come through the middle, he doesn't stand tall and quickly puts his eyes down and moves to the left, which is exactly where his pre-snap and progression read (with the LB dropping on that side) back told him not to go.  Once he moves, the only reason he isn't sacked is because the RT grabs the defender across the neck area and throws him off balance (possible holding penalty) which makes the guy go off path.  If Hackenberg stays in the pocket, both Harper and Jenkins is open within time to get the pass off without him being touched.  It obviously doesn't matter in this game because it's pre-season and the results don't matter.  But he bails on the play before he develops because he sees the defender come up the middle, and doesn't follow through with the play.   The Titans didn't send an overload blitz because when Hackenberg looks to his left at first, he can see the LB dropping back.  If that defender had also come on the blitz, then it's a 6 on 5 mismatch, at which point Jenkins is the hot read for a quick pass.  Once, that hot read situation is taken care of, it's still a 5 on 5 blocking assignment.  

I think the coaching staff has much more access than we do, and are most likely doing a better job of evaluating guys, but they aren't sharing that information with us or any other team.  So we do evaluations on our own and see what is happening.  

[win4ever]

8 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Great analysis,  I only disagree with you on the second scenario where you said Hackenberg got out of the pocket too fast.  Seems to me that though the TE was getting open, the protection was also breaking down giving Hack no time to complete the pass.  He did well to escape and at least gain positive yardage, rather than take a big sack and loss of 10 yards.

Also its clear Hammond isn't Very good, but I don't think anyone expects him to make the team anyway.

Thanks. 

I think he bailed on the play because he saw the guy coming through the middle.  He actually does everything perfect until that point, where he puts his eyes down and moves away.  The Titans show blitz, so Hack goes to his hot read (Jenkins) and then holds the LB (maybe safety too, can't see that far down) with his eyes and then goes towards his first read in Harper.  Unfortunately, this is when the DE/LB is trying to penetrate the A gap, which causes Hackenberg to bail on the play when he did actually have protection.  If it wasn't for the borderline holding by the RT, I think Hackenberg gets absolutely blown up on this play for a sack because he doesn't get out of the pocket quickly.  Someone like Wilson or Tyrod could do this better because they are more of a threat in the open field, but Hackenberg just isn't one of them.  

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with his ability to get open at all.  He apparently does well on returns, which could be a reason why he makes the team.