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Mauldin on roster BUBBLE -- Then so should GM Macc

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There is a lot of luck involved in the draft to. Williams & Adams dropping to us was complete luck but who cares? Our GM said "thank you" and sent in the cards.

The Adams naysayers here will be eating their words next year. His athleticism, smarts, and passion to be the best, along with his love of football will drive him to be one of the best safeties in the league & Maye looks like he'll break our 2nd round jinx. These 3 guys (Williams included) will probably be the young leaders driving this defense into the future.

2/3 years it takes to develop NFL players, very view jump on the field & take off. You guys had no CLUE who Julian Edelman was but the Pats developed him into a stud slot WR. It's gonna be a tough year but I expect to see some young guys develop & make plays. 

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People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

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37 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There is a lot of luck involved in the draft to. Williams & Adams dropping to us was complete luck but who cares? Our GM said "thank you" and sent in the cards.

The Adams naysayers here will be eating their words next year. His athleticism, smarts, and passion to be the best, along with his love of football will drive him to be one of the best safeties in the league & Maye looks like he'll break our 2nd round jinx. These 3 guys (Williams included) will probably be the young leaders driving this defense into the future.

2/3 years it takes to develop NFL players, very view jump on the field & take off. You guys had no CLUE who Julian Edelman was but the Pats developed him into a stud slot WR. It's gonna be a tough year but I expect to see some young guys develop & make plays. 

 

The main problem I have with the pick is that his athleticism is about average for a strong safety: https://relativeathleticscores.com/2017/04/13/jamal-adams-ras/

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20 minutes ago, maury77 said:

People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

His no-brainer picks weren't actually no-brainers, he's horrible in the second and third rounds, he's clueless when it comes to positional value, but come on we gotta let the guy grow into his job a little bit

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

I agree, but I think he could use help-a Holmgren, Shanahan.  Macc can succeed to President.   The ultimate head of football cannot be Johnsons and Glat. 

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Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (idk why) but I would THINK that once they drafted their QB at #1, they would begin to build around him. Investing high picks and big money in FA to support him. Doing what they have to do the following year to get the top WR, etc etc. 

I'd honestly feel way more comfortable with an offensive HC then Bowles still lingering around trying to push for a top CB or something. 

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13 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (idk why) but I would THINK that once they drafted their QB at #1, they would begin to build around him. Investing high picks and big money in FA to support him. Doing what they have to do the following year to get the top WR, etc etc. 

I'd honestly feel way more comfortable with an offensive HC then Bowles still lingering around trying to push for a top CB or something. 

I would much rather he push for a CB than S or ILB.

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wait... 19 catches and 186 yards is nothing now? 

Nah.  Pissing away a huge pile of money and having a worse roster to show for it, plus the second highest dead cap money in the league. That's what did it for me.  Though two safeties didn't help 

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8 hours ago, dbatesman said:

His no-brainer picks weren't actually no-brainers, he's horrible in the second and third rounds, he's clueless when it comes to positional value, but come on we gotta let the guy grow into his job a little bit

Then what is the ******* point of continuing to hire first time GMs and coaches? So that we can fire them if they aren't all starts right off the bat? That's a hell of a way to run a business. 

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7 hours ago, Lith said:

Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

I think that is a reasonable barometer of success. All those things can happen and we can still go 1-15 due to the QB situation. 

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Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

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1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

This is completely right.  

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3 hours ago, Pcola said:

Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

The Hack pick was ineptitude at its worst.  

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10 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

a third round pick is the deciding factor on a GM?

After the second round pick from the same draft is already cut and the subsquent second round pick is a stinky qb yes

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6 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Nah.  Pissing away a huge pile of money and having a worse roster to show for it, plus the second highest dead cap money in the league. That's what did it for me.  Though two safeties didn't help 

WE CAN"T CONTINUE DA SAME CYCLE GUYZ

ny-jets-dumpster-fire.jpg?w=426

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On 8/21/2017 at 0:33 PM, Beerfish said:

Mac is a strange case, he has shown some nice scouting ability getting some udf and later round picks.  As a gm is not showing the ability to build a teams.

Whether he deserves it or not I am giving him a break because he is saddled with a TERRIBLE coach and he can do nothing about it.

A terrible coach and the inability to build a team are mutually inclusive.  It just means both and coach and GM are bad at their respective jobs.

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On 8/21/2017 at 1:47 PM, Obrien2Toon said:

Because of the Idzick fan debacle, Mac came in at a tough spot.

Was kind of forced to spend a lot of money on FAs, thus setting a team that was no where near ready to compete back 2 years. Did he want to do that? Or was it a Woody thing?  We'll probably never know.

So he's really just starting now.  And his drafting has been ok, and some nice udfa finds

If that is the case, Woody completely misconstrued the fans' revolt against Idzik.  It wasn't about what he did or didn't do in FA; it was all about how poorly he draft.  For GMs it always come done to that lowest denominator.  If you draft well, it really doesn't matter what you do in FA.  FA can buy you a year or 2 of success but that's it.  Green Bay, for example, is rarely a major player in FA, yet they've been able to achieve Mac's elusive goal of "sustainable success" because consistently draft well.  Rookie contracts are mostly 4 years long; you must string together a few good drafts in a row for a successful rebuild.  You hit on a 3-4 guys in back to back drafts and all of he sudden you have yourself a core of young guys that can grow together.  Bad and/or just "ok" drafts just traps you in a perpetual rebuild like the Browns in the past decade.   So, having to spend money in FA is not and excuse for drafting a bunch of JAGs in 2 years.

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4 minutes ago, legler82 said:

If that is the case, Woody completely misconstrued the fans' revolt against Idzik.  It wasn't about what he did or didn't do in FA; it was all about how poorly he draft.  For GMs it always come done to that lowest denominator.  If you draft well, it really doesn't matter what you do in FA.  FA can buy you a year or 2 of success but that's it.  Green Bay, for example, is rarely a major player in FA, yet they've been able to achieve Mac's elusive goal of "sustainable success" because consistently draft well.  Rookie contracts are mostly 4 years long; you must string together a few good drafts in a row for a successful rebuild.  You hit on a 3-4 guys in back to back drafts and all of he sudden you have yourself a core of young guys that can grow together.  Bad and/or just "ok" drafts just traps you in a perpetual rebuild like the Browns in the past decade.   So, having to spend money in FA is not and excuse for drafting a bunch of JAGs in 2 years.

Sure. But then again having Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers QBing the franchise for the past 25 years is also kind of a big factor.  I mean if you go back and look at the players that team has drafted for the past 10 years...nothing truly outstanding there.  Some nice hits on OL, DL and S but plenty of failed picks and mediocrity along the way too. 

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14 hours ago, Jetster said:

There is a lot of luck involved in the draft to. Williams & Adams dropping to us was complete luck but who cares? Our GM said "thank you" and sent in the cards.

The Adams naysayers here will be eating their words next year. His athleticism, smarts, and passion to be the best, along with his love of football will drive him to be one of the best safeties in the league & Maye looks like he'll break our 2nd round jinx. These 3 guys (Williams included) will probably be the young leaders driving this defense into the future.

2/3 years it takes to develop NFL players, very view jump on the field & take off. You guys had no CLUE who Julian Edelman was but the Pats developed him into a stud slot WR. It's gonna be a tough year but I expect to see some young guys develop & make plays. 

I'm sorry landing a great safety with a top 10 just doesn't get the general fan excited.  The silver lining at the end of a miserable season is the draft and draft position.  To come away with 2 safeties is a bit of a downer even if they turn out to be great players.  Talk about a non-premium position.  The only franchise tags lower than safety is running back and kicker.  Not to mention this team particular and peculiar history of drafting nothing but the defensive players in the first round for nearly a decade.  It seems like every year we draft "young leaders [to drive] this defense into the future".  I think it's about time we get someone behind the wheel of the offense; it's been sitting rusting for some time now.

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24 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Sure. But then again having Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers QBing the franchise for the past 25 years is also kind of a big factor.  I mean if you go back and look at the players that team has drafted for the past 10 years...nothing truly outstanding there.  Some nice hits on OL, DL and S but plenty of failed picks and mediocrity along the way too. 

They traded a first round pick for Favre and used a first pick to draft Rodgers.  They also developed Rodgers and transitioned from the Favre to the Rodgers at the exact right  time.  Some teams could have f*cked that up.  They also were able to get a return for Hasselbeck who they drafted in the 6th round.  So they've been the drivers of their success through good scouting and player development; it's not like they are lucky and we are not.  

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On 8/21/2017 at 1:32 PM, kmnj said:

LW is by no means a star yet-he looks like he will be a good player but he is far from a star at this point in his career

the rest of the guys you mentioned would not start on most teams or even make the rosters for some.

I will wait for this season to play out but I think collecting safeties will prove to be a poor choice with so many holes and I only think one of them is going to be a good player

 

 

 

i know it's tough to take right now.  clearly mac and bowles are both on a pretty short leash.   but mac has drafted some decent players and williams is a star.  the thing is most of these all stars tend to come from successful teams so put a better team around williams and you'll see his stock rise as well.  the same goes for the qb. we are seeing mccown, hack and petty be so-so primarily because the team is not playing as a team.  they have two weeks to get it together.

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15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i know it's tough to take right now.  clearly mac and bowles are both on a pretty short leash.   but mac has drafted some decent players and williams is a star.  the thing is most of these all stars tend to come from successful teams so put a better team around williams and you'll see his stock rise as well.  the same goes for the qb. we are seeing mccown, hack and petty be so-so primarily because the team is not playing as a team.  they have two weeks to get it together.

So-so means moderately well.  Care to amend your post? 

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18 hours ago, Pcola said:

Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

Hack was a bit of a reach but not IMO the disastrous pick that some make it out to be.  I do agree passing on potential FQB because of Hack, just a 2nd round pick, may comeback and bite him.  By his actions he is essentially telling us that Hack > Mahomes, Kizer and Watson and/or next years class > this year.  Problem is the former may be proven wrong this year which may not allow him to get the chance to prove he was right about the latter.  Do the Jets want the guy that has filled the position with Fitz, Petty, Hack and McCown to be the guy to draft our QB with next year 1st pick?  It's arguably going to be the biggest draft choice for this team in over a decade.

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1 hour ago, legler82 said:

Hack was a bit of a reach but not IMO the disastrous pick that some make it out to be.  I do agree passing on potential FQB because of Hack, just a 2nd round pick, may comeback and bite him.  By his actions he is essentially telling us that Hack > Mahomes, Kizer and Watson and/or next years class > this year.  Problem is the former may be proven wrong this year which may not allow him to get the chance to prove he was right about the latter.  Do the Jets want the guy that has filled the position with Fitz, Petty, Hack and McCown to be the guy to draft our QB with next year 1st pick?  It's arguably going to be the biggest draft choice for this team in over a decade.

If it's the #1 pick and there's a potential FQB, it's the biggest draft pick the Jets would make since 1965.

And at Hack's rate of improvement, he'll be ready to take over when Darnold leaves via free agency.

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