Trader Mike II?

[varjet]

It seems to me that over the last month, when you heard about teams shopping players, those teams eventually found trading partners and fair value was exchanged.   As those of us in business know, the market value of something is what someone else will pay for it.

With the salary cap, injuries and the growing amount of caps absorbed by the starting QBs, teams value their draft picks more and more, and they are not giving the up easily, particularly for a veteran or troubled player.

But when the rumor is that the Jets are looking to trade a player, why don't we see any deals?  I think its because Macc and perhaps others do not have an understanding of what the market value of players are.

Looking at the next few years, the Jets have a pretty needy roster now, and there are some players on it now who only have 1 year contracts.   The Jets do not have as many draft picks as other teams that are also rebuilding.  They need MONEY to sign some smart second contracts.  Right now the Jets are on the hook for Marcus Williams, Forte and Richardson, all players that will not be in their future.   A team agreeing to take those players for basically a ham sandwich is a good deal for the Jets.  

Skrine and McClendon-their cap money goes away when they are cut.   

I think in March the Jets were quasi-optimistic, with no good reason, that Hack could have a decent season, or at least he needed a LT, RB and back up to make the season respectable.  I don't think they think that anymore, but Bowles will not quit.  We are looking at a win in Buffalo.  

[UnknownJetFan]

varjet,

Just one correction, Jets are not on the hoof for CB Williams. The tenders on restricted FAs are not guarenteed, so if he gets cut even, he gets nothing and Jets get no cap hit. If he is traded the team he is trading to pays his 2.7M and again Jets get no cap hot. Once of the two will probably occur, most likely him being cut since he is no better than our reserve CBs and is paid much higher.

[Jet9]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

It seems to me that over the last month, when you heard about teams shopping players, those teams eventually found trading partners and fair value was exchanged.   As those of us in business know, the market value of something is what someone else will pay for it.

With the salary cap, injuries and the growing amount of caps absorbed by the starting QBs, teams value their draft picks more and more, and they are not giving the up easily, particularly for a veteran or troubled player.

But when the rumor is that the Jets are looking to trade a player, why don't we see any deals?  I think its because Macc and perhaps others do not have an understanding of what the market value of players are.

Looking at the next few years, the Jets have a pretty needy roster now, and there are some players on it now who only have 1 year contracts.   The Jets do not have as many draft picks as other teams that are also rebuilding.  They need MONEY to sign some smart second contracts.  Right now the Jets are on the hook for Marcus Williams, Forte and Richardson, all players that will not be in their future.   A team agreeing to take those players for basically a ham sandwich is a good deal for the Jets.  

Skrine and McClendon-their cap money goes away when they are cut.   

I think in March the Jets were quasi-optimistic, with no good reason, that Hack could have a decent season, or at least he needed a LT, RB and back up to make the season respectable.  I don't think they think that anymore, but Bowles will not quit.  We are looking at a win in Buffalo.  

 

 

A well thought out post. Nice job. 

 

 

[jgb]

I am in the minority for thinking it's not a foregone conclusion that Sheldon walks. 

[AFJF]

40 minutes ago, jgb said:

I am in the minority for thinking it's not a foregone conclusion that Sheldon walks. 

If they can't trade him, I think the Jets try to re-sign Sheldon, but he's about to have a breakout season and will probably demand he be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

Remember when he had two good seasons under his belt and he was saying he deserved to be paid like JJ Watt?

[jgb]

Just now, AFJF said:

If they can't trade him, I think the Jets try to re-sign Sheldon, but he's about to have a breakout season and will probably demand he be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

Remember when he had two good seasons under his belt and he was saying he deserved to be paid like JJ Watt?

Can tag and then try to sign or trade, but you're right everything depends on him having a (re)breakout season.

[AFJF]

Just now, jgb said:

Can tag and then try to sign or trade, but you're right everything depends on him having a (re)breakout season.

Possible, but insanely rare that teams do that.  I think the last one was almost 10 years ago.

[jgb]

Just now, AFJF said:

Possible, but insanely rare that teams do that.  I think the last one was almost 10 years ago.

Tag and trade you must mean. Tag and then re-sign happens pretty often. I could be wrong.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Can tag and then try to sign or trade, but you're right everything depends on him having a (re)breakout season.

Been saying since last year that my hope is Sheldon picks up 5-6 sacks in the first few weeks of the season and somebody is willing to part with a high pick before the deadline.

[jgb]

Just now, AFJF said:

Been saying since last year that my hope is Sheldon picks up 5-6 sacks in the first few weeks of the season and somebody is willing to part with a high pick before the deadline.

Ideal scenarios we agree. Fact is we need to allocate resources elsewhere than D Line.

[AFJF]

Just now, jgb said:

Tag and trade you must mean. Tag and then re-sign happens pretty often. I could be wrong.

Gotcha.  I did think you meant tag and trade.  Tag and re-sign is possible and I wouldn't rule it out at all. 

[jgb]

Just now, AFJF said:

Gotcha.  I did think you meant tag and trade.  Tag and re-sign is possible and I wouldn't rule it out at all. 

If he can't perform this year, with talent on both sides of him and in a contract year, stick a fork in him.

[JetsFanatic]

Trader Mike II? The Jets have between $80-$90M in cap space for 2018 and are not hamstrung by any contracts.  Trader Mike had us in cap hell when he left, the Jets are not in cap hell. 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Trader Mike II? The Jets have between $80-$90M in cap space for 2018 and are not hamstrung by any contracts.  Trader Mike had us in cap hell when he left, the Jets are not in cap hell. 

Trade Mike also got us into two AFC Championship Games. Unless you are blessed with a truly elite QB that allows you to shoot for the playoffs every year, you have to aggressively strike when a window presents and go for it, even if it leads you into cap hell. Tanny took his shot, which is more than I can say for most of the Jets last 40 year history.

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, varjet said:

It seems to me that over the last month, when you heard about teams shopping players, those teams eventually found trading partners and fair value was exchanged.   As those of us in business know, the market value of something is what someone else will pay for it.

With the salary cap, injuries and the growing amount of caps absorbed by the starting QBs, teams value their draft picks more and more, and they are not giving the up easily, particularly for a veteran or troubled player.

But when the rumor is that the Jets are looking to trade a player, why don't we see any deals?  I think its because Macc and perhaps others do not have an understanding of what the market value of players are.

Looking at the next few years, the Jets have a pretty needy roster now, and there are some players on it now who only have 1 year contracts.   The Jets do not have as many draft picks as other teams that are also rebuilding.  They need MONEY to sign some smart second contracts.  Right now the Jets are on the hook for Marcus Williams, Forte and Richardson, all players that will not be in their future.   A team agreeing to take those players for basically a ham sandwich is a good deal for the Jets.  

Skrine and McClendon-their cap money goes away when they are cut.   

I think in March the Jets were quasi-optimistic, with no good reason, that Hack could have a decent season, or at least he needed a LT, RB and back up to make the season respectable.  I don't think they think that anymore, but Bowles will not quit.  We are looking at a win in Buffalo.  

Good points. I just keep going back to that one prescient warning from an anonymous source when we hired Maccagnan, that he was a decent scout, but the job of GM was "going to be too big for him." Man, was that dude correct. 

[tfine]

I laugh when people think all these issues would be fixed in one off-season


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[rangerous]

7 hours ago, varjet said:

It seems to me that over the last month, when you heard about teams shopping players, those teams eventually found trading partners and fair value was exchanged.   As those of us in business know, the market value of something is what someone else will pay for it.

With the salary cap, injuries and the growing amount of caps absorbed by the starting QBs, teams value their draft picks more and more, and they are not giving the up easily, particularly for a veteran or troubled player.

But when the rumor is that the Jets are looking to trade a player, why don't we see any deals?  I think its because Macc and perhaps others do not have an understanding of what the market value of players are.

Looking at the next few years, the Jets have a pretty needy roster now, and there are some players on it now who only have 1 year contracts.   The Jets do not have as many draft picks as other teams that are also rebuilding.  They need MONEY to sign some smart second contracts.  Right now the Jets are on the hook for Marcus Williams, Forte and Richardson, all players that will not be in their future.   A team agreeing to take those players for basically a ham sandwich is a good deal for the Jets.  

Skrine and McClendon-their cap money goes away when they are cut.   

I think in March the Jets were quasi-optimistic, with no good reason, that Hack could have a decent season, or at least he needed a LT, RB and back up to make the season respectable.  I don't think they think that anymore, but Bowles will not quit.  We are looking at a win in Buffalo.  

fine but maybe we don't hear about any potential deals because mac plays it close to the vest.  the nfl has always been a tough place to make trades mainly because of the salary cap and the players always eager to hold out.  from what i understand, mac has been trying to trade shelly but the price was too high.  just about any player can be traded for a bag of doughnuts.  the trick is getting the best value.  as far as the jets are concerned just who do they have that has good trade value?  shelly? maybe wilk? powell?  they have some nice young players but they need to get much better before they will even get their draft position back in a trade.  to me that's the real key.  imo successful teams find it much easier to trade players because the values are higher.  just look at how highly garapolo is rated even though he has very limited playing time.

hopefully the jets will be able to build these players up from within and have the luxury of being able to get better return for the guys they trade.

[JetsFanatic]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Trade Mike also got us into two AFC Championship Games. Unless you are blessed with a truly elite QB that allows you to shoot for the playoffs every year, you have to aggressively strike when a window presents and go for it, even if it leads you into cap hell. Tanny took his shot, which is more than I can say for most of the Jets last 40 year history.

Tanny certainly had his moments. Honestly though his personnel moves post lockout 2011 through the remainder of his tenure  were generally poor. He also tended to trade way draft picks which when done as often as he did hurts a team in the long run.

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Trader Mike II? The Jets have between $80-$90M in cap space for 2018 and are not hamstrung by any contracts.  Trader Mike had us in cap hell when he left, the Jets are not in cap hell. 

That "cap hell" was gone in two years.  Look what we've done with all that space!

[jetspenguin]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

fine but maybe we don't hear about any potential deals because mac plays it close to the vest.  the nfl has always been a tough place to make trades mainly because of the salary cap and the players always eager to hold out.  from what i understand, mac has been trying to trade shelly but the price was too high.  just about any player can be traded for a bag of doughnuts.  the trick is getting the best value.  as far as the jets are concerned just who do they have that has good trade value?  shelly? maybe wilk? powell?  they have some nice young players but they need to get much better before they will even get their draft position back in a trade.  to me that's the real key.  imo successful teams find it much easier to trade players because the values are higher.  just look at how highly garapolo is rated even though he has very limited playing time.

hopefully the jets will be able to build these players up from within and have the luxury of being able to get better return for the guys they trade.

this.

one of the problem the Jets will have until they are successful is trading players. Our players are devalued because the team looks so bad. Anyone that appears to be good we want to keep and the ones that dont...well.....other GM's have a tv too and they look bad. The league also is keenly aware we are dumping players for a rebuild, not because they cost too much and not because they dont fit our scheme. Who is going to trade for these pieces? Just to rattle off a few people we lost or wish we could lose....

Forte- RB over 30 who real or imagined didnt look great last year, is owed 4 mil and is regularly out played by his backup

Sheldon- real or imagined didnt look good the last TWO years, has enough of a history and a mouth to make teams hesitate AND is owed 8 mil this year and they can sign him after the year without sacrificing any pieces. 

Marshall- real or imagined looked finished or uninterested last year

Decker- injured most of the last 3 years

Shrine- looks more like shyt than shineola most of last year. 

Mo- looked like shyt last year, broke his leg the year before

Revis- looked so bad last year he still isnt on a team

Mangold- injured most of last year, older player now

Well...you get the picture. These players had/have limited value because the team looked so bad last year...other teams dont see the value in giving anything up for them.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, tfine said:

I laugh when people think all these issues would be fixed in one off-season


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Can we fix one?  

 

2 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

Mo- looked like shyt last year, broke his leg the year before

I am not sure I am following what everyone is trying to say in this thread.  Woe is Maccagnan?  Most of those overpaid underperforming pieces you mention were signed by Maccagnan.  He gave Mo all that money AFTER he broke his leg.  Remember when we thought that was going to get us a discount?

[jetspenguin]

39 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Can we fix one?  

 

I am not sure I am following what everyone is trying to say in this thread.  Woe is Maccagnan?  Most of those overpaid underperforming pieces you mention were signed by Maccagnan.  He gave Mo all that money AFTER he broke his leg.  Remember when we thought that was going to get us a discount?

Well I cant speak for anyone else, what I am saying it that the reason we had/have difficulty trading those pieces is because we sucked donkey balls last year. ANY GM would have a problem talking up those pieces. 

and I wasnt on the sign mo train...dont get me started on that one

[JoJoTownsell1]

Jets fans live in a bubble. Teams are always trying to trade players and most often nothing comes of it.

August 29 - news reports of browns aggressively trying to deal how haden.

August 30- Joe haden released. 

 

If this involved the jets you guys would be going nuts about how macc can't even trade a former pro bowler. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Jets fans live in a bubble. Teams are always trying to trade players and most often nothing comes of it.

August 29 - news reports of browns aggressively trying to deal how haden.

August 30- Joe haden released. 

 

If this involved the jets you guys would be going nuts about how macc can't even trade a former pro bowler. 

More likely I'd be complaining about giving him that big contract. I'm not worried about the cut so much as paying the guy $11M to play elsewhere.

[JetsFanatic]

41 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That "cap hell" was gone in two years.  Look what we've done with all that space!

Yes, we went 10-6 in 2015.  We have tons of cap room for 2018, and if Mac's drafts workout we could be successful in the future.  At this point we don't know if Mac's drafts will workout but we do seem to have some nice young talent. We will see.

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Yes, we went 10-6 in 2015.  We have tons of cap room for 2018, and if Mac's drafts workout we could be successful in the future.  At this point we don't know if Mac's drafts will workout but we do seem to have some nice young talent. We will see.

Haven't we read articles about Peake and Mauldin being on the bubble?  Haven't we watched Hackenberg? Where is this young talent? A sham 10-6 on the backs of aging vets impresses me less than the sham 8-8 with Geno in 2013. 

[Dunnie]

I am not sure I am following what everyone is trying to say in this thread.  Woe is Maccagnan?  Most of those overpaid underperforming pieces you mention were signed by Maccagnan.  He gave Mo all that money AFTER he broke his leg.  Remember when we thought that was going to get us a discount?

People fail to recognize that the Mo deal was a win/win for McCags ... it was a sign of good faith for a player that was he best player on the team before injury. The deal was structured in a way that we can part ways with him after two years of the signing with little penalty if he underperforms ... i swear this forum is filled with children that just spout off without knowing what the hell they are talking about.


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[JetsFanatic]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Haven't we read articles about Peake and Mauldin being on the bubble?  Haven't we watched Hackenberg? Where is this young talent? A sham 10-6 on the backs of aging vets impresses me less than the sham 8-8 with Geno in 2013. 

I see young talent on this team.  I actually this year's draft is going te solid. Unfortunalty fans cannot stomach a rebuild.  They all complain about Woody but they are just as bad as Woody.  Hopefully Woody will see this through and not fire Mac at the end of the season.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

 

People fail to recognize that the Mo deal was a win/win for McCags ... it was a sign of good faith for a player that was he best player on the team before injury. The deal was structured in a way that we can part ways with him after two years of the signing with little penalty if he underperforms ... i swear this forum is filled with children that just spout off without knowing what the hell they are talking about.


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Sorry if I am a child that doesn't know what I am talking about, but wasn't Mo guaranteed $37M?  I think they would still owe him around $10M if they cut him after year 2 (2017).  That is "little penalty"?  I am not blowing up about signing the guy, but how can people complain that he isn't an asset because of his bloated contract when you signed him to that contract? 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, JetsFanatic said:

I see young talent on this team.  I actually this year's draft is going te solid. Unfortunalty fans cannot stomach a rebuild.  They all complain about Woody but they are just as bad as Woody.  Hopefully Woody will see this through and not fire Mac at the end of the season.

I am fine with rebuilding.  If things are as you say I will be quite happy.  OTOH, I have not seen many reasons to be optimistic.  The pieces that brought us to 10-6 were aging vets.  I don't trust the rebuild to the guys that made the mess.  

[Bugg]

Simply not sure looking down another suspension for his next stupidity where anyone is paying Richardson top DL type money. Best hope is he has a good season until the trade deadline and a team looking to go for it needs DL help and will give up maybe a #2 for him at best. Trader Mike really effed up not doing something like that with Dallas last year. 

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am fine with rebuilding.  If things are as you say I will be quite happy.  OTOH, I have not seen many reasons to be optimistic.  The pieces that brought us to 10-6 were aging vets.  I don't trust the rebuild to the guys that made the mess.  

It takes a few years to determine if draft picks are good or not. I see potential. My patience will run out if we are not greatly improved in 2018. 

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Trade Mike also got us into two AFC Championship Games. Unless you are blessed with a truly elite QB that allows you to shoot for the playoffs every year, you have to aggressively strike when a window presents and go for it, even if it leads you into cap hell. Tanny took his shot, which is more than I can say for most of the Jets last 40 year history.

He also paid Holmes and Sanchez ransom money and let good players walk.  I think Tanny had no balls when it came to players. He opened a checkbook and simply spent others money and never 

put his foot down to do things like keep Cotch, Braylon, Favre etc.  He is not a good businessman.  remember on Hardknocks when he told Clemens he must accept the league minimum for his position?  he seemed to be timid in his talks with him.

[legler82]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

I am in the minority for thinking it's not a foregone conclusion that Sheldon walks. 

I personally don't think Williams should be gone.  If we should cut or trade a CB, it should be Buster Skrine.  He is 28 years old, with a 8.5 million cap hit and sucks.  Williams is no world beater, but at least he tends to be around the ball a lot.  There are worst ways to spend 2.7 million.

[Beerfish]

Woe be to any team dumb enough to pay Richardson the big bucks, he will check out or get into trouble before the ink is dry.  Paying mowilk after one really dominant year and off a broken leg was not smart, paying Richardson when he has really never produced big time, is a character issue and just wants to get paid would be idiotic.