Trader Mike II?

[varjet]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Good points. I just keep going back to that one prescient warning from an anonymous source when we hired Maccagnan, that he was a decent scout, but the job of GM was "going to be too big for him." Man, was that dude correct. 

Right.  Mac is not a throwaway.   He just needs a boss.  

Dorsey, Gettleman, Gruden, Shanahan, Holmgren. Someone who has accomplished something   

[varjet]

A team that is contending should pony up a draft pick to pay a motivated SR for 1-2 years.   The price there is the most someone will pay.  If it is a 4, we should take it.  Our best qb is a 4th round draft pick.  Put SR'a money into next year.  

For Forte, we should pay a low round pick for someone to take his salary. 

Williams-keep him and cut Skrine. 

[JetFreak89]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Good points. I just keep going back to that one prescient warning from an anonymous source when we hired Maccagnan, that he was a decent scout, but the job of GM was "going to be too big for him." Man, was that dude correct. 

I don't disagree with your point but even if 100% factual, shouldn't we give the guy more than 2 seasons to see if he could grow into the role? My opinion is everything depends on how HIS picks perform this year. 

[Jolot]

11 hours ago, varjet said:

It seems to me that over the last month, when you heard about teams shopping players, those teams eventually found trading partners and fair value was exchanged.   As those of us in business know, the market value of something is what someone else will pay for it.

With the salary cap, injuries and the growing amount of caps absorbed by the starting QBs, teams value their draft picks more and more, and they are not giving the up easily, particularly for a veteran or troubled player.

But when the rumor is that the Jets are looking to trade a player, why don't we see any deals?  I think its because Macc and perhaps others do not have an understanding of what the market value of players are.

Looking at the next few years, the Jets have a pretty needy roster now, and there are some players on it now who only have 1 year contracts.   The Jets do not have as many draft picks as other teams that are also rebuilding.  They need MONEY to sign some smart second contracts.  Right now the Jets are on the hook for Marcus Williams, Forte and Richardson, all players that will not be in their future.   A team agreeing to take those players for basically a ham sandwich is a good deal for the Jets.  

Skrine and McClendon-their cap money goes away when they are cut.   

I think in March the Jets were quasi-optimistic, with no good reason, that Hack could have a decent season, or at least he needed a LT, RB and back up to make the season respectable.  I don't think they think that anymore, but Bowles will not quit.  We are looking at a win in Buffalo.  

Good points, but I disagree with the last sentence , I think Buffalo beats us handily ...I don't think most people even on this board have accepted yet just how bad we are going to be ...2 to 3 wins tops, and 1-15 is on the table. 

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

At this point we don't know if Mac's drafts will workout but we do seem to have some nice young talent.

Totes magotes

[pointman]

8 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Trader Mike II? The Jets have between $80-$90M in cap space for 2018 and are not hamstrung by any contracts.  Trader Mike had us in cap hell when he left, the Jets are not in cap hell. 

The man got us players, and the chance to win. He was let go before he had the opportunity to make moves to correct the financial constraints made. There were no signs saying he couldn't have made it right.

[Barkus]

8 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Trader Mike II? The Jets have between $80-$90M in cap space for 2018 and are not hamstrung by any contracts.  Trader Mike had us in cap hell when he left, the Jets are not in cap hell. 

yes, that's because we don't have many good players to pay! Would rather have more good players and less cap space, hope macc (or someone else) can get this team going in the right direction. 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Jolot said:

Good points, but I disagree with the last sentence , I think Buffalo beats us handily ...I don't think most people even on this board have accepted yet just how bad we are going to be ...2 to 3 wins tops, and 1-15 is on the table. 

Look what Buffalo is unloading.  Buffalo is also in year 1 of a regime where the coach and GM have a year or two to tank and not lose their jobs.

My theory (and I am a conspiracy theorist) is that Pegula, the GM and McDermott have agreed that the most important thing they can do this year is tank, pick Darnold next year and use all of their picks to build around that.  Quite frankly, I think it is a smart strategy.

In 2 weeks, one of us will be right.   I think that first Jets-Bills games will say alot for how the entire NFL season turns out.

I can see the NFL changing the entire scheduling system.  The fact that 2 teams of the 4 teams in a division are tanking will provide the Patriots and Dolphins with an advantage in making the playoffs.

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

this.

one of the problem the Jets will have until they are successful is trading players. Our players are devalued because the team looks so bad. Anyone that appears to be good we want to keep and the ones that dont...well.....other GM's have a tv too and they look bad. The league also is keenly aware we are dumping players for a rebuild, not because they cost too much and not because they dont fit our scheme. Who is going to trade for these pieces? Just to rattle off a few people we lost or wish we could lose....

Forte- RB over 30 who real or imagined didnt look great last year, is owed 4 mil and is regularly out played by his backup

Sheldon- real or imagined didnt look good the last TWO years, has enough of a history and a mouth to make teams hesitate AND is owed 8 mil this year and they can sign him after the year without sacrificing any pieces. 

Marshall- real or imagined looked finished or uninterested last year

Decker- injured most of the last 3 years

Shrine- looks more like shyt than shineola most of last year. 

Mo- looked like shyt last year, broke his leg the year before

Revis- looked so bad last year he still isnt on a team

Mangold- injured most of last year, older player now

Well...you get the picture. These players had/have limited value because the team looked so bad last year...other teams dont see the value in giving anything up for them.

 

 

right and that's why the bellichicken will trade a player like seymour than keep him and pay him what he thinks he's worth.

[varjet]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

right and that's why the bellichicken will trade a player like seymour than keep him and pay him what he thinks he's worth.

What people have not talked enough about is how we still took SR in his option year.  We had until March to get out of it.

With a team that looks this bad, why are we paying SR that much money?  Just like with Mo, we could have let him sign with another team and maybe get a comp pick.  

That was the biggest mistake in my view.

But Macc and the rest of the GMs are playing chicken.  I actually think that Dallas should have paid a second for him last year,  Wouldn't a Super Bowl maybe been worth that, plus 2 more years?

There are a bunch of good teams that could use a DT for a run this year.  The Jets have Pelon, Thomas, Mo, McClendon and Leo, among others.   

I can't believe they can't get a deal done.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, varjet said:

What people have not talked enough about is how we still took SR in his option year.  We had until March to get out of it.

With a team that looks this bad, why are we paying SR that much money?  Just like with Mo, we could have let him sign with another team and maybe get a comp pick.  

That was the biggest mistake in my view.

But Macc and the rest of the GMs are playing chicken.  I actually think that Dallas should have paid a second for him last year,  Wouldn't a Super Bowl maybe been worth that, plus 2 more years?

There are a bunch of good teams that could use a DT for a run this year.  The Jets have Pelon, Thomas, Mo, McClendon and Leo, among others.   

I can't believe they can't get a deal done.

Well... the comp pick thing is interesting.  I think that the strategy can get a bit overdone.  You are dealing with at best a 3rd round pick.  We are all optimistic about guys that we haven't seen, but the odds of getting more production from the rookie contract of a 3rd rounder is considerably less than what we would expect out of Richardson.  I think the comp pick rationale is less important than we think.

OTOH, if they want a comp pick, the time to let him walk would have been 2017.  He would probably sign for a decent long-term deal.  If we dropped the option, it would have been late and he might have gotten a shorter/lesser deal.  For 2018 we will be buyers.  Comp picks are based on a comparison of what you signed to what you lost.  The Jets are unlikely to lose anywhere near what they sign in 2018.  The offset of Sheldon will probably be damn near worthless.  It's not like they take picks away if you sign too much.

[rangerous]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Well... the comp pick thing is interesting.  I think that the strategy can get a bit overdone.  You are dealing with at best a 3rd round pick.  We are all optimistic about guys that we haven't seen, but the odds of getting more production from the rookie contract of a 3rd rounder is considerably less than what we would expect out of Richardson.  I think the comp pick rationale is less important than we think.

OTOH, if they want a comp pick, the time to let him walk would have been 2017.  He would probably sign for a decent long-term deal.  If we dropped the option, it would have been late and he might have gotten a shorter/lesser deal.  For 2018 we will be buyers.  Comp picks are based on a comparison of what you signed to what you lost.  The Jets are unlikely to lose anywhere near what they sign in 2018.  The offset of Sheldon will probably be damn near worthless.  It's not like they take picks away if you sign too much.

it takes two to make the deal and while the rumor was that dallas was going to give up a 2nd it could also be that mac was asking for a 2nd.  either way, he will walk after this season and the jets will get a compensatory pick (i think).  since he is playing for a contract his pick value will probably go up.  and if he's traded, so be it.

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it takes two to make the deal and while the rumor was that dallas was going to give up a 2nd it could also be that mac was asking for a 2nd.  either way, he will walk after this season and the jets will get a compensatory pick (i think).  since he is playing for a contract his pick value will probably go up.  and if he's traded, so be it.

You totally missed what I said.  The Jets will only get a comp pick if the Jets lose more FA contracts than they sign.  That is a general statement and there are ways around it (signing cut players, etc) but with all this cap room people are crowing about, it is unlikely they will get anything fro Sheldn.  

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Look what Buffalo is unloading.  Buffalo is also in year 1 of a regime where the coach and GM have a year or two to tank and not lose their jobs.

My theory (and I am a conspiracy theorist) is that Pegula, the GM and McDermott have agreed that the most important thing they can do this year is tank, pick Darnold next year and use all of their picks to build around that.  Quite frankly, I think it is a smart strategy.

In 2 weeks, one of us will be right.   I think that first Jets-Bills games will say alot for how the entire NFL season turns out.

I can see the NFL changing the entire scheduling system.  The fact that 2 teams of the 4 teams in a division are tanking will provide the Patriots and Dolphins with an advantage in making the playoffs.

Yep....  McDermott and Beane (coach/GM)  come from Panthers who did exactly that with Cam.   BTW.. the GM, was my intern in 1996 here in Charlotte.  After graduation from UNCW he took an entry level job with the Panthers, 1997.  Incredible story.

[jgb]

19 hours ago, tfine said:

I laugh when people think all these issues would be fixed in one off-season


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I think the argument is that Macc is creating more problems than he is fixing and we are going backward. At this rate we'll never be "rebuilt." Macc needs to absolutely Hulk Smash the draft next year, or he'll be back on the North-Midwest Mid-Major Scouting Circuit come next season. 

[jgb]

17 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

It takes a few years to determine if draft picks are good or not. I see potential. My patience will run out if we are not greatly improved in 2018. 

Jets problem has always been waiting too long to fire people. Since when have they been burned not giving someone enough time? Who has left this organization involuntarily and became a hit elsewhere? I can think of ZERO front office folks or coaches. 99-100% of the time Jets hang on way too long. I predict it shall be the same with Macc and Bowles. Simply put, the Jets promote marginal talent into the big jobs and none have gone on to make their mark elsewhere. Ignoring evidence of suck and "waiting to see if they turn it around," is managing through hope. Which isn't logical or successful, obviously. If we get the top pick, and we have $80M in cap space and Woody/his brother don't parlay that into a real, experienced, non-first-time-HC, then shame on him. With the table set so perfectly, the Jets needs to get Harbaugh or the like over for dinner.

[legler82]

On 8/31/2017 at 8:33 AM, JetsFanatic said:

Tanny certainly had his moments. Honestly though his personnel moves post lockout 2011 through the remainder of his tenure  were generally poor. He also tended to trade way draft picks which when done as often as he did hurts a team in the long run.

Tanny has compiled a pretty good roster in Miami.  In fact, Miami is one of the teams the Jets should be paying attention to as roster cuts approaches.