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Joe W. Namath

Scouting the qbs for next year thread

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3 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Thanks and please keep it going.  Any insight is good. If it bruises the vaginas of the posters who are more interested in gaining internet points that having a real discussion....well then, who gives a sh*t?  Eff them.

I would eff them with my fist in their heretic faces.

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3 hours ago, Paradis said:

So two things come mind... They're not wrong for loving Rosen. He is the best QB-clay in nearly 2 decades... if he puts it all together this year, it's a no brainer. If he doesn't, then i'm sure we'll pass on him. Not a situation I stress about. If everyone played their best ball it's easily Rosen/Darnold/Falk as your top 3.. Questions though, who thoughts they could throw out 2-3 seasons of garbage tape and fix hackenberg. What the hell was up with that. Your pal every explain that one... cause it's not like he lit it up and college and we can pretend we got tricked.  

 

SIDE TOPIC: It's ridiculous how undervalued Lamar Jackson is by the public/draft-media. He's come SO far in 2 seasons as a passer. He deserves more respect. 

I can tell you that he's on the fringe of entering the top tier for us.  I say this as someone who is not totally sold on Jackson in the 1st just yet so you know I'm not placing my own biases in there.  My buddy and the team, who have, admittedly, done far more research on him than I have, said that he is likely closer to be a top pick than Allen on their board.

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Lamar Jackson is really fun to watch. Great arm and seems to be seriously approaching improving as a pocket passer. Really curious to see how he's viewed by the end of the season.

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5 minutes ago, King P said:

Agreed and the disrespect angers me to be quite honest.

If you're not high on Lamar, fine. But to say he's going to be a WR in the NFL is bullcrap to me. He's way better as a passer at this stage of his career than Terrelle Pryor so that's an asinine comparison. And he still has room to grow as a passer, he's been improving every year.

I have as the 4th best QB in this draft, and I flip flop between him and Rudolph after Rosen and Darnold.

Jackson has truly Elite potential.  Exceptional athleticism, but the accuracy issues and sloppy feet in his throwing motion is a big concern for me.  If that can be coached out, great...he can fix that, AND continue to make progress as a passer and become a real FQB.  But he still has a ways to go.  Let's be totally honest he was a running QB his first year with horrible accuracy.  He has come a long way though.  The jump from year 1 to the end of year 2 was incredible.  If he puts together a great season he can easily be a 1st rounder.  Yesterday was a very good showing.  I think his arm strength is what it is though.  Finally I think if he is ever going to warrant first round consideration he also needs to bulk up considerably.  At 200 lbs he will be thought of as another Pat White clone.  People fear using a 1st rounder on a QB who they think will break.  So unless he bulks up, imo, I can't imagine him breaking top 5 and is probably more like a 2nd rounder.  I don't think anyone wants to get another RG3 situation. If he's going to be used in a way to suit his abilities, he is going to have to play as a dual threat QB.  He's not a pocket passer and anyone that wants him to be that for the sake of preserving him is also going to have to live with his inability to go deep very well.  He's fine from 5-20 but after that he's a bit wild. It's a lot to overcome.  Also add into the mix that he's a spread offense guy who isn't taking snaps under center and you will get a lot of detractors.  He's going to be a tough read.  I'm definitely pulling for him though.  He's a great watch on Saturdays.

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

Where we stand now is that Hackenberg basically has, what I like to call, Jay Cutler syndrome going on.  In film study, game prep, there's no issues.  He can call out a blitz, read the Defense, know what play to check into, etc...when he gets onto the field, into the thick of things, with the game flying at 110MPH, everything he knows to do just never materializes.  It's disappointing.  There isn't a soul in that organization that doesn't feel frustrated or upset.  That's all I can really say at this point.  They're coming to the realization that the project likely won't pan out and putting all their focus into the evaluation of the other guys on the roster along with scouting the big name QBs on their list. Petty (to answer @nycdan) isn't hated or been forgotten about either...he will get his shot.  The injuries have not helped get him on the field though.  There was a decent chance we're looking at Bryce Week 1 if he wasn't injured...again.  He isn't full go yet.

 

Thanks, @Mogglez.  Really good to hear that.  Felt like before the injury he was being buried based on their assuming what they saw last season was what he would be going forward, which feel asinine to me.  But if we get to see him in a week, or three, that's fine.  I just hope to see that question answered while the games still matter to the players (unlike last season) so we'll know for sure if he is worth investing more energy into.

 

Really appreciate the feedback.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

You had the right to do whatever you wanted with the information you received .  I sit here and I wonder why a franchise that everyone refers to as a circus is  the way it is and the only thing that I can come to think of is that nothing stays within the walls .

Jet fans only see a problem when it fits their purpose .  I just wonder if you yourself ever complained about someone talking to Cimini or Mehta .  

 

There's a difference when Cimini and Mehta take bullsh*t "anonymous sources", to make criticisms against the team, that get refuted by players and team staff, and continue to run their story regardless of the truth and me answering a question with more in-depth info.  I can name multiple occasions where I could have ass blasted that little twerp Mehta to the moon with concrete proof, but my buddies job is more important.  One of us actually speaks to people in the organization.  The other one doesn't.

My information, again, was not a criticism of the thought process, an attack on anyone in charge, or anything of the sorts. It was an insiders look to a draft selection.  If you take it as "leaky circus", that's your issue, not mine.  If you're upset that the Jets never considered Hackenberg to be more than a low risk, high reward project, then I'm sorry to tell you the truth.  Nothing I said is really ground breaking.  It was the reasoning behind them drafting the kid.  You could have gotten all that from the press conference after the selection.  I just filled in the little details.

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23 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I sit here and I wonder why a franchise that everyone refers to as a circus is  the way it is and the only thing that I can come to think of is that nothing stays within the walls .

Sometimes I sit here and wonder why Patrick Swayze died and the only thing I can think of is that everyone found out he had cancer.

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23 minutes ago, derp said:

Lamar Jackson is really fun to watch. Great arm and seems to be seriously approaching improving as a pocket passer. Really curious to see how he's viewed by the end of the season.

Wouldn't bring him within five miles of this coaching staff, though.

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Interesting to see Jackson get some love again.   The main issue with him is accuracy because he needs to improve considerably in that aspect to be a stud prospect.  However, if he does improve, I see a lot of Marcus Mariota (not right now, accuracy still a major deficit) in Jackson because teams really have to respect the speed, and it opens things up for play-makers.  For example, one of the staple defenses that we've been is a wide defensive alignment, where both ends line up outside of the tackles, with only one rushing tackle, and everyone else drops back.  Our QBs don't run well enough nor step up in the pocket consistently for defenses to shy away from it.  Jackson, or any QB that can run will take away that option.  I'm not saying he's a top 5 prospect yet because his accuracy issues need to be dealt with, but if he does, I'd be very excited.  I don't think his arm strength is an issue (it's not Josh Allen but it's not Pennington either), mechanics are somewhat of an issue, and the mental transition is a major issue.  

I know a lot of people deride the RGIII pick because of how it turned out, but he turned the NFL upside down when he had his full mobility because teams just couldn't defend the run/pass at the same time.  Once he got hurt, that explosive mobility was gone, and teams took advantage.  That is the same risk with Jackson, because if he ever gets hurt with the leg, then he becomes mediocre.  

Also like Baker Mayfield, Air Raid not withstanding, although with him, size is an issue too I guess.  He's much more accurate, and his stats are pretty amazing.  If you are scouting, next week at Ohio State is a must watch to see how he handles the speed of that defense.   

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Very excited about Rosen right now.

Solid first drive.  Poised, accurate, smart with the ball. 

His arm is better than Darnold's by a good amount.  Not a knock on Sam, but Rosen has a laser.

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31 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

You had the right to do whatever you wanted with the information you received .  I sit here and I wonder why a franchise that everyone refers to as a circus is  the way it is and the only thing that I can come to think of is that nothing stays within the walls .

Jet fans only see a problem when it fits their purpose .  I just wonder if you yourself ever complained about someone talking to Cimini or Mehta .  

 

And you didn't disappoint! My only suggestion for next time is to make sure you call him "Beloved" or some horrifically creepy sh*t like that

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Solid first drive.  Poised, accurate, smart with the ball. 

His arm is better than Darnold's by a good amount.  Not a knock on Sam, but Rosen has a laser.

I like and hate the Eli Manning comp for him. It works because Rosen, like Eli, doesn't panic, but also like Eli he just kinda throws it to places he expects his receivers to go, which leads to ugliness.

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

We have certainly talked about that.  Extensively.  I could write about 5 pages on the Hackenberg situation and the thought process there, but I don't want to waste too much time on it in a prospects thread.  For anyone who wants a little closure, it boils down to this:

The second they got him into the film room and interviews, they loved him.  Everyone I've ever spoken to about Hackenberg says the same thing:  In the film room, he's absolutely brilliant.  He retains information like a seasoned vet, is a great kid, and seems to have an excellent football mind.  This comes from my buddy and people he works with on the team, former teammates (I played high school ball with a WR of Hack's), and some PSU staff.  The major concerns that they had were that they felt that there was a chance that he was shell-shocked from his time behind the line of PSU.  Nothing really we didn't already know.  However, they felt that he was young enough to get over it and with some mechanical coaching, he could get back to being the QB everyone thought he could be.  After teams met with him 1-1, that notion was reinforced.  The Jets were not the only team who felt this way, if everything I've been told is true...for the record.  My friend felt more comfortable with him in the mid-bottom 3rd round/early 4th, but the consensus was that he wasn't going to be there.  2 other teams were targeting him in the early 3rd.  Macc, from my understanding, just didn't want to take the chance on him being taken and pulled the trigger.  I'm of the belief that if you believe in a guy, you go and get him.  Just don't be surprised if you have to answer for it when it's a gamble like the one they made.  That's for Macc to do though, not me.

As with any prospect, there were some people within who didn't fully believe that Hack could be put back together again, but the consensus belief was that the reward outweighed the risk and that, just like with Jimmy Clausen, as long as a first round pick wasn't used, you could move on quickly if it wasn't meant to be for Hack and you loved a QB coming out in the upcoming drafts. 

Where we stand now is that Hackenberg basically has, what I like to call, Jay Cutler syndrome going on.  In film study, game prep, there's no issues.  He can call out a blitz, read the Defense, know what play to check into, etc...when he gets onto the field, into the thick of things, with the game flying at 110MPH, everything he knows to do just never materializes.  It's disappointing.  There isn't a soul in that organization that doesn't feel frustrated or upset.  That's all I can really say at this point.  They're coming to the realization that the project likely won't pan out and putting all their focus into the evaluation of the other guys on the roster along with scouting the big name QBs on their list. Petty (to answer @nycdan) isn't hated or been forgotten about either...he will get his shot.  The injuries have not helped get him on the field though.  There was a decent chance we're looking at Bryce Week 1 if he wasn't injured...again.  He isn't full go yet.

I hope that's enough for you to feel satisfied my friend.  I could go on about it for hours...but the skinny of it basically covers the important stuff.  I believed in the kid too...I'm not gonna lie.  I'll own it.  It stings me a bit to know I was totally wrong too...but it's not the first time and it won't be the last for me.  We'll see if Macc gets a chance to right his wrong at QB...if not, so be it.  I'm not a GM.  Him being wrong has far more consequences that he'll have to deal with.

Thanks for the insight.  

I wonder how hurt Petty is.  From all the rumors, it seemed like Hackenberg has everything down except for actually playing well.  I'm wondering if it's a perspective thing.  It's a stupid theory, but one thing that I've always wondered is the angles in a coach's film to the QB's perspective at the line.  Does he see things more clear from a higher perspective (also the reason why a decent amount of coordinators sit up high)?  Maybe they can invest in GoPro cams or something to teach him how to tell apart protections and stuff at the line of scrimmage.  He does seem to have a lot of trouble in identifying blitzes and what not.  

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I like and hate the Eli Manning comp for him. It works because Rosen, like Eli, doesn't panic, but also like Eli he just kinda throws it to places he expects his receivers to go, which leads to ugliness.

I'm with you.  On one hand, it means he can throw with anticipation, the other end of that is that it can lead to big time miscommunication unless you have pinpoint chemistry with your WRs.  You saw a lot of that with Jameis Winston.

Side note, UCLA has GOT to give that LT some help.

 

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Rosen just seems to be missing something important kinda like Jeff George did, just can't put my finger on exactly what he is missing while we know what George was missing.

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4 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Rosen just seems to be missing something important kinda like Jeff George did, just can't put my finger on exactly what he is missing while we know what George was missing.

Protection

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5 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Protection

On a serious note I want a QB that can succeed when he doesn't always have great protection, or inspire of not having protection.

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5 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

On a serious note I want a QB that can succeed when he doesn't always have great protection, or inspire of not having protection.

That's great, but this poor kid doesn't have a chance .   This keeps up and he won't last the game .  The only good thing about this game for UCLA thus far is that Rosen has taken some hits directly to his shoulder and he's holding up .

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6 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

On a serious note I want a QB that can succeed when he doesn't always have great protection, or inspire of not having protection.

Word. If you're going to succeed in the NFL, you're going to get hit a lot. Hard to use "protection!" as a qualifier.

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Have watched a lot this weekend......

Josh Allen.....KRL is right has a lot of tools. Iowa D wouldn't let him use his legs or beat them deep middle of the field. Tried to do too much, Threw some absolute lasers to the sideline NFL throws.  Too many athletes on Iowa vs Wyoming

Darnold: USC team thought they would walk over W Mich. Darnold forced couple its early and vs inferior competition we will see.

watching Rosen now.... UCLA looks soft...guy is cocky.....looked good early, nice throws team just got punched in the mouth

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I tried to tell you all, this class is getting ridiculous hype and it really doesn't make a ton of sense to me.  I liked this years class better.  It's early still but very underwhelming week from the "pro prospects".

The guys that nobody talks about except come Heisman time because of the system and style and the don't look the part continue to be the most impressive and productive week in week out.  

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I tried to tell you all, this class is getting ridiculous hype and it really doesn't make a ton of sense to me.  I liked this years class better.  It's early still but very underwhelming the "pro prospects".

The guys that nobody talks about except come Heisman time because of the system and style and the don't look the part continue to be the most impressive and productive week in week out.  

2PM, swing,'and a miss by the Jets.

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I tried to tell you all, this class is getting ridiculous hype and it really doesn't make a ton of sense to me.  I liked this years class better.  It's early still but very underwhelming week from the "pro prospects".

The guys that nobody talks about except come Heisman time because of the system and style and the don't look the part continue to be the most impressive and productive week in week out.  

It's a good class, but some of these kids didn't stand a chance . Allen's team was over matched as it looks like the Bruins are right now . Sam Darnold has the weakest arm in the entire class with the exception of Faulk . I didn't get to see the kid from Oklahoma State, but from last season, I didn't like his arm that much .Everyone gets a pass for this week, but that kid Lamarr Jackson was special last night . 

Tight spirals, Velocity, accuracy and athleticism off the charts .

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I have to start questioning if this is a case of UCLA not having guys who can get open, OR guys who just don't want to go to war with Rosen.  That is the whispers around him that his teammates don't like him, and this looks like a team not willing to play for this QB IMO, they are quitting out there.

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

It's a good class, but some of these kids didn't stand a chance . Allen's team was over matched as it looks like the Bruins are right now . Sam Darnold has the weakest arm in the entire class with the exception of Faulk . I didn't get to see the kid from Oklahoma State, but from last season, I didn't like his arm that much .Everyone gets a pass for this week, but that kid Lamarr Jackson was special last night . 

Tight spirals, Velocity, accuracy and athleticism off the charts .

I like Josh Allen still.....call me crazy......guy had nothing to work with vs Iowa trying to make plays and threw some absolute lasers.... you are right though Jackson looked good.

im watching this A&M team smoke UCLA.... like this Kevin Sumlin coach 

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