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KRL

Game Observations (BUF)

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9 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unlike previous years losses aren't going to hurt as much because I know the team is rebuilding
and most importantly the payoff may be a franchise QB.  Keep it in perspective folks

^ Isnt this just whistling past the graveyard as long as Macc is the one to make "The Selection"

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2 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

^ Isnt this just whistling past the graveyard as long as Macc is the one to make "The Selection"

And here is the rub on what has transpired the last few weeks. I have so far been fairly pro Macc but even I have said that him lasting here depends entirely on how his picks play during this season. This seemed to be the direction the team was going also, as Woody declared during the offseason that success would be measured in "progress" instead of wins and losses.  

So why, for the love of god, are the majority of Macc's picks not playing? Why did we pick up Kearse, Kerley, Tye when we are supposed to be evaluating Stewart, Hansen and Leggett? Why is Forte being force-fed the ball when it should be a committee of Powell and McGuire? Why McCown instead of Petty? 

Bowles (who is likely a goner since he still doesn't know when to go for it vs punt) is shooting Macc in the head because without these evaluations, Macc's draft success has been very lackluster. 

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5 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

And here is the rub on what has transpired the last few weeks. I have so far been fairly pro Macc but even I have said that him lasting here depends entirely on how his picks play during this season. This seemed to be the direction the team was going also, as Woody declared during the offseason that success would be measured in "progress" instead of wins and losses.  

So why, for the love of god, are the majority of Macc's picks not playing? Why did we pick up Kearse, Kerley, Tye when we are supposed to be evaluating Stewart, Hansen and Leggett? Why is Forte being force-fed the ball when it should be a committee of Powell and McGuire? Why McCown instead of Petty? 

Bowles (who is likely a goner since he still doesn't know when to go for it vs punt) is shooting Macc in the head because without these evaluations, Macc's draft success has been very lackluster. 

Bowles is a pro veteran player type HC  regardless of the overly apparent degree to which they are washed up.

This will be his Waterloo. 

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25 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Bowles is a pro veteran player type HC  regardless of the overly apparent degree to which they are washed up.

This will be his Waterloo. 

Lol, he is an idiot! The moment that Todd Bowles exclaimed after the 2015 that "Ryan Fitzpatrick is our starting QB" when he wasn't even under contract. Dope!

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26 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

And here is the rub on what has transpired the last few weeks. I have so far been fairly pro Macc but even I have said that him lasting here depends entirely on how his picks play during this season. This seemed to be the direction the team was going also, as Woody declared during the offseason that success would be measured in "progress" instead of wins and losses.  

So why, for the love of god, are the majority of Macc's picks not playing? Why did we pick up Kearse, Kerley, Tye when we are supposed to be evaluating Stewart, Hansen and Leggett? Why is Forte being force-fed the ball when it should be a committee of Powell and McGuire? Why McCown instead of Petty? 

Bowles (who is likely a goner since he still doesn't know when to go for it vs punt) is shooting Macc in the head because without these evaluations, Macc's draft success has been very lackluster. 

In all fairness, before I share my general thoughts, Leggett is hurt (I think he needs a year for an NFL body), and Stewart and Hansen did play.  Kerley was inactive, thankfully.  I wonder whether Bowles got spooked by the Cimini post.  Thank heavens Kearse and Tye played, because I thought they actually looked good to capable.

My thoughts on the game (combination of coaching, players and GM):

Offense:

  • The WCO looked functional.  The OL appeared to block ok for the short pass.  
  • There is no running game.  We have 2 guards who should be able to run block.  Combination of the RBs and OL.
  • Keeping Forte was a fail.  Macc should have picked someone with a future and just cut Forte.  I have a feeling that things at One Jets Drive are out of The Office.
  • McCown got the ball to people in some windows.  He is doing exactly what he was supposed  to do-look competent while still losing.  
  • Kearse, Tye and Tomlinson had some nice catches.  ASJ is going to look better.
  • They obviously need a WR to stretch the field.  Missing QE.  Things can get better here with more WRs next year.  
  • Bowles not going for it, for this team, makes little sense, although one can argue that if it was an 18 point game he looks worse.   So he is not only playing not to lose, but playing not to lose too badly.
  • So from a coaching and organizational long-term perspective, I see some hope for the offense.  

Defense:

  • From a current coaching/scheme perspective, Bowles is writing his death warrant.  People like to point out Kacy, who appears inept, but the AHC is Mike Caldwell, who coaches INSIDE LBs.   I pointed out that covering the TES/RBS would be the challenge to the game, and I was right.   This was supposed to be a good defense, and they were generally awful, but it appears to be as much as a coaching/talent perspective than anything else.  That is on MaccBowles.  Everyone says that they way they save their jobs is to put a decent defense on the field, and against Buffalo they did not.
  • It looks like Mo is on the way to saving us money next year.
  • Lee and Davis are looking completely misused.  
  • Martin and Jenkins adding value.  
  • Claiborne did not do himself any favors, but Burris did.

Overall

  • Jax/Hou is a good summary.  A team with really good hard-nosed coaching and management upset the Texans, which is where our bumbling GM came from.  The Texans hodgepodge line was sacked 10x.  They worked hard all summer, and ran the ball well.   I saw a picture of McNail applauding putting Watson in the game, in the second half.  So O'Brien's picked QB lasted the first half.   He is looking done in Hou.
  • MaccBowles are further showing that they are history.  The Darron Lee experiment is directly on the two of them, as is the defense generally.
  • Additionally a rebuilding team is supposed to be able to run the ball, which we cannot do at all.  
  • All of us said that McClendon, Skrine and Forte should not be on the team.  This was politics.  In the first 2 cases, we owe them for the entire year.   This does not reflect well on Mac.
  • We are learning what need to know.  The Jets were competitive, and we beat a leading competitor for the most important item for our future-the NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK, because we ain't trading for it.
  • We will not get to the promised land overnight.  The future of the Jets is in front of our noses.  Let's sign up John Dorsey, as Director of Football Operations, keep Macc as GM who just writes Scouting Reports that Dorsey reads on a year tryout so Woody does not eat his salary, purge Bowles and his cronies and keep some of the other coaches.  There is no reason to change the defensive or offensive overall scheme, but Bowles, Rodgers and Caldwell have to go.

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1 hour ago, JetFreak89 said:

And here is the rub on what has transpired the last few weeks. I have so far been fairly pro Macc but even I have said that him lasting here depends entirely on how his picks play during this season. This seemed to be the direction the team was going also, as Woody declared during the offseason that success would be measured in "progress" instead of wins and losses.  

So why, for the love of god, are the majority of Macc's picks not playing? Why did we pick up Kearse, Kerley, Tye when we are supposed to be evaluating Stewart, Hansen and Leggett? Why is Forte being force-fed the ball when it should be a committee of Powell and McGuire? Why McCown instead of Petty? 

Bowles (who is likely a goner since he still doesn't know when to go for it vs punt) is shooting Macc in the head because without these evaluations, Macc's draft success has been very lackluster. 

1) Because you can't force it. None of the guys you mention are studs and if they are put out there on a bad team they risk not developing into the players they can be. It's about finding opportunities for the young players to be successful. Throwing them to the lions is not a recipe for successful player development.

2) Because if you throw all of the young guys out there, it will be a total sh*t show and no one will learn anything.

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24 minutes ago, varjet said:

In all fairness, before I share my general thoughts, Leggett is hurt (I think he needs a year for an NFL body), and Stewart and Hansen did play.  Kerley was inactive, thankfully.  I wonder whether Bowles got spooked by the Cimini post.  Thank heavens Kearse and Tye played, because I thought they actually looked good to capable.

My thoughts on the game (combination of coaching, players and GM):

Offense:

  • The WCO looked functional.  The OL appeared to block ok for the short pass.  
  • There is no running game.  We have 2 guards who should be able to run block.  Combination of the RBs and OL.
  • Keeping Forte was a fail.  Macc should have picked someone with a future and just cut Forte.  I have a feeling that things at One Jets Drive are out of The Office.
  • McCown got the ball to people in some windows.  He is doing exactly what he was supposed  to do-look competent while still losing.  
  • Kearse, Tye and Tomlinson had some nice catches.  ASJ is going to look better.
  • They obviously need a WR to stretch the field.  Missing QE.  Things can get better here with more WRs next year.  
  • Bowles not going for it, for this team, makes little sense, although one can argue that if it was an 18 point game he looks worse.   So he is not only playing not to lose, but playing not to lose too badly.
  • So from a coaching and organizational long-term perspective, I see some hope for the offense.  

Defense:

  • From a current coaching/scheme perspective, Bowles is writing his death warrant.  People like to point out Kacy, who appears inept, but the AHC is Mike Caldwell, who coaches INSIDE LBs.   I pointed out that covering the TES/RBS would be the challenge to the game, and I was right.   This was supposed to be a good defense, and they were generally awful, but it appears to be as much as a coaching/talent perspective than anything else.  That is on MaccBowles.  Everyone says that they way they save their jobs is to put a decent defense on the field, and against Buffalo they did not.
  • It looks like Mo is on the way to saving us money next year.
  • Lee and Davis are looking completely misused.  
  • Martin and Jenkins adding value.  
  • Claiborne did not do himself any favors, but Burris did.

Overall

  • Jax/Hou is a good summary.  A team with really good hard-nosed coaching and management upset the Texans, which is where our bumbling GM came from.  The Texans hodgepodge line was sacked 10x.  They worked hard all summer, and ran the ball well.   I saw a picture of McNail applauding putting Watson in the game, in the second half.  So O'Brien's picked QB lasted the first half.   He is looking done in Hou.
  • MaccBowles are further showing that they are history.  The Darron Lee experiment is directly on the two of them, as is the defense generally.
  • Additionally a rebuilding team is supposed to be able to run the ball, which we cannot do at all.  
  • All of us said that McClendon, Skrine and Forte should not be on the team.  This was politics.  In the first 2 cases, we owe them for the entire year.   This does not reflect well on Mac.
  • We are learning what need to know.  The Jets were competitive, and we beat a leading competitor for the most important item for our future-the NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK, because we ain't trading for it.
  • We will not get to the promised land overnight.  The future of the Jets is in front of our noses.  Let's sign up John Dorsey, as Director of Football Operations, keep Macc as GM who just writes Scouting Reports that Dorsey reads on a year tryout so Woody does not eat his salary, purge Bowles and his cronies and keep some of the other coaches.  There is no reason to change the defensive or offensive overall scheme, but Bowles, Rodgers and Caldwell have to go.

John Dorsey is worse than Mac.... That's why Hunt let him go.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/kansas-city-chiefs-john-dorsey-fired-nfl-notebook

 

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17 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

1) Because you can't force it. None of the guys you mention are studs and if they are put out there on a bad team they risk not developing into the players they can be. It's about finding opportunities for the young players to be successful. Throwing them to the lions is not a recipe for successful player development.

2) Because if you throw all of the young guys out there, it will be a total sh*t show and no one will learn anything.

You don't think Stewart would develop if he were the number 1 option instead of Kearse? I beg to differ. Also, Stewart and Petty seemed to be pretty in sync in the preseason, it would be nice to see if that could carry over to the regular season. 

Here is the thing, I don't need to see all of them all at once or for every snap, especially if it looks like they are way over their head. But I have no trust in Bowles based on the previous two years experience that we won't be having these same conversations 8 weeks from now because the team "hasn't been mathematically eliminated from a playoff spot".  That is 8 weeks where our rookies and 2nd years could be taking their lumps and learning lessons on how to improve. 

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Just now, JetFreak89 said:

You don't think Stewart would develop if he were the number 1 option instead of Kearse? I beg to differ. Also, Stewart and Petty seemed to be pretty in sync in the preseason, it would be nice to see if that could carry over to the regular season. 

Here is the thing, I don't need to see all of them all at once or for every snap, especially if it looks like they are way over their head. But I have no trust in Bowles based on the previous two years experience that we won't be having these same conversations 8 weeks from now because the team "hasn't been mathematically eliminated from a playoff spot".  That is 8 weeks where our rookies and 2nd years could be taking their lumps and learning lessons on how to improve. 

Kearse is going to be here next year too. So he's not a one off

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1 minute ago, JetFreak89 said:

You don't think Stewart would develop if he were the number 1 option instead of Kearse? I beg to differ. Also, Stewart and Petty seemed to be pretty in sync in the preseason, it would be nice to see if that could carry over to the regular season. 

Here is the thing, I don't need to see all of them all at once or for every snap, especially if it looks like they are way over their head. But I have no trust in Bowles based on the previous two years experience that we won't be having these same conversations 8 weeks from now because the team "hasn't been mathematically eliminated from a playoff spot".  That is 8 weeks where our rookies and 2nd years could be taking their lumps and learning lessons on how to improve. 

I do not think it would be good for Stewart's development to be matched up with the D's #1 CB, and I don't know why anyone would think that to be true.

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I do not think it would be good for Stewart's development to be matched up with the D's #1 CB, and I don't know why anyone would think that to be true.

At worst Steward is matched up with the 3.

A team's number 1 QB  has to be matched up with Anderson, because otherwise he will burn them (I am sure there are some CB2 who can keep up with him).  Kearse will get the 2, which leaves a Stewart the slot.

I am wondering why Kerley was signed.

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19 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

John Dorsey is worse than Mac.... That's why Hunt let him go.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/kansas-city-chiefs-john-dorsey-fired-nfl-notebook

 

Good article, thank you.

Dorsey obviously had his faults, but look at the Chief's roster when compared to the Jets.  It is one of the best in the NFL.

I think putting Dorsey and Macc's heads together may produce someone better and either on their own.

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1 minute ago, varjet said:

At worst Steward is matched up with the 3.

A team's number 1 QB  has to be matched up with Anderson, because otherwise he will burn them (I am sure there are some CB2 who can keep up with him).  Kearse will get the 2, which leaves a Stewart the slot.

I am wondering why Kerley was signed.

and he was when he played and had some success. However, the statement I replied to was "You don't think Stewart would develop if he were the number 1 option instead of Kearse?"

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Just now, varjet said:

Good article, thank you.

Dorsey obviously had his faults, but look at the Chief's roster when compared to the Jets.  It is one of the best in the NFL.

I think putting Dorsey and Macc's heads together may produce someone better and either on their own.

... or is Andy Reid responsible for the picks that worked out?

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2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

There is a big difference between giving up chunks of yardage and giving up points. The Patriots have been doing this the last few years. Give up chunks of yards but few points. 

 

You seem to be confusing "chunks of yardage" and chunk plays.  Bend, but don't break.  Giving up yards, but not points has long been a staple of the Parcells/Belichick teams and the cover2/who teams.  Teams that do that are not getting gashed for 20-40 yard gains.  Those plays are kept to a minimum.  5 Bills players caught passes for more than 20 yards. 

2 hours ago, Stark said:

I am trying to find the video of the play I was talking about and the one you are talking about, because I think that was Stewart too..

I think so too.

2 hours ago, NYJ37/12 said:

Who is going to want him?

Forte?  One less team (us) than wants him now. 

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

^ Isnt this just whistling past the graveyard as long as Macc is the one to make "The Selection"

Even a drunken, blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.  Matt Millen drafted Megatron after Charles Rogers and Mike Williams.

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11 minutes ago, varjet said:

At worst Steward is matched up with the 3.

A team's number 1 QB  has to be matched up with Anderson, because otherwise he will burn them (I am sure there are some CB2 who can keep up with him).  Kearse will get the 2, which leaves a Stewart the slot.

I am wondering why Kerley was signed.

Being fast does not correlate to needing coverage by the #1 CB.  It correlates to safety help over the top.  A bigger CB that can manhandle him at the line and passing him off is generally the best way to handle a speed option.  Anderson is fast, but plenty of faster guys have sucked in the NFL and plenty of #2 CBs are faster than #1 CBs.  Richard Sherman is not super fast, but I doubt he would miss any sleep facing Robbie Anderson.

I am with Werblin on Stewart needing to be brought along.  Also, Kearse is the kind of guy that could become a higher tiered WR and forcing him the ball may bring that out.  If not, no great loss.  I'm not keeping him around next year at $5M for 50/500.  

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3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

There is a big difference between giving up chunks of yardage and giving up points. The Patriots have been doing this the last few years. Give up chunks of yards but few points. 

 

Buffalo missed a FG which had little to do with the Jets defense. They also declined to take 7 points on the opening drive by throwing it way behind their receiver right to Burris. I don't think giving up 21 points is "not giving up points" to begin with, but it was a hair sliver from 31 points and Buffalo shut down their offense for a few drives when they had 2 score leads.

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Just now, jeremy2020 said:

Buffalo missed a FG which had little to do with the Jets defense. They also declined to take 7 points on the opening drive by throwing it way behind their receiver right to Burris. I don't think giving up 21 points is "not giving up points" to begin with, but it was a hair sliver from 31 points and Buffalo shut down their offense for a few drives when they had 2 score leads.

So anything the Jets do well it's because the other team stinks. That's the narrative everybody will take.

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

So anything the Jets do well it's because the other team stinks. That's the narrative everybody will take.

They didn't even do it well. They gave up 21 points. That's not "not giving up points".

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Just now, jeremy2020 said:

They didn't even do it well. They gave up 21 points. That's not "not giving up points".

In this NFL, it kind of is. Teams average about 17 to 20 points a game, it seems (except for the Jets of course) 

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30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You seem to be confusing "chunks of yardage" and chunk plays.  Bend, but don't break.  Giving up yards, but not points has long been a staple of the Parcells/Belichick teams and the cover2/who teams.  Teams that do that are not getting gashed for 20-40 yard gains.  Those plays are kept to a minimum.  5 Bills players caught passes for more than 20 yards. 

I think so too.

Forte?  One less team (us) than wants him now. 

Even a drunken, blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.  Matt Millen drafted Megatron after Charles Rogers and Mike Williams.

Macc can take lessons from Matt Millen 

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5 hours ago, KRL said:

As any reasonable Jet fan knows wins are going to be hard to come by this season.  So progress
has to be measured in other ways and in the first game of the season there were failures all 
over the place:

- Todd Bowles failed on multiple levels, his game management and defense to name a few.  If
you're going to be aggressive and go for the TD on 4th down and go for 2 pts in the third
quarter, you can't punt down two scores with time running out in the game!!!  In addition
after three years of getting the personnel you want on defense, you can't have the amount
of mistakes in execution which allowed simple plays to become "chunk" plays.  Also, what happened
to the secure tackling we saw in the pre-season???  There were whiffs all over the field

- The offense was a continuation of what was seen in camp and the pre-season.  There's no
OLine push in the run game which allows the defense to crowd the box and sit on every WR 
route.  With a compressed offense the only thing available is quick "dinks & dunks" which 
don't stretch the field.  This won't change until the OLine generates push in the run game.
As ineffective as they were the team was only down 14-12 in the 4th quarter.  The big culprits
in this loss was the defense

- An example of how stats don't tell the story, Demario Davis & Darron Lee both had
big games in the stat sheet.  But they may have played the worst interior LB game I've ever
seen!!!  In run defense, zone pass defense and man to man pass defense all they did all game
was guess wrong, leave their lanes and allow simple plays to turn into disasters.  Don't
let anyone fool you they were the main culprits in giving up 200 yards on the ground

- Unfortunate bad luck on the Juston Burris INT, he trips over his teammate (Marcus Maye?)
at midfield which sends him to the ground.  If he doesn't trip it's probably a 105 yard
pick 6 because there were no BUF players in front of him

- Good games by Kony Ealy & Josh Martin at the OLB spots.  Both brought pressure and set
good edges in the run game

- On offense Jermaine Kearse & Will Tye made an impact after only a week.  Kearse with 
tough catches over the middle and Tye with physical running after the catch

- Kalif Raymond needs to secure the ball better, but he did show a glimmer of hope that he
can help in the return game with that 20+ yard punt return

- Excellent leg strength by Chris Catanzaro on his FG's and kickoffs.  And Lachlan Edwards
except for that one shank was excellent in changing field position with his punts

- Awful game by Matt Forte, I know there were no running lanes but you can't drop two screen
passes

   

not sure if those were real screens to forte or just dump offs.  either way, the bills had someone right on top of him so it's not like he was going anywhere.  as for the other comments, some good.  ealy showed some pass rushing ability and blew up a couple of plays in the back field.  and they did get some good pressure on tyrod. i agree and disagree about the oline push.  it's hard to get push when the bills were clogging up the line.  no mystery as to what kind of passing attack they were facing.  on the other hand, the push for a running game isn't necessarily needed for a good passing game.  mccown showed an inability to get the ball downfield.  one good point is the tight ends caught 5 or 6 passes.  considering they caught 18 last season that's an improvement.  calling wilkerson.  where was this superstar?

and let's not underestimate the bills oline.  they've been playing together for a few seasons and know how to run block.  give them some credit for getting the back to the second level.

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2 hours ago, varjet said:

Bowles not going for it, for this team, makes little sense, although one can argue that if it was an 18 point game he looks worse.   So he is not only playing not to lose, but playing not to lose too badly.

I actually thought this, too, but it's so pathetic that I didn't really want to articulate it. 

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9 hours ago, nycdan said:

On a good note, Rush fans were very pleased with the final score of 21-12.

The sleep is still in my eyes
The dream is still in my head
I heave a sigh, and sadly smile
And lie a while in bed

I wish that it might come to pass
Not fade like all my dreams
Just think of what my life might be
In a world like I have seen

I don’t think I can carry on
This cold and empty life

My spirits are low, in the depths of despair
My lifeblood
Spills over….

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2 hours ago, slats said:

I actually thought this, too, but it's so pathetic that I didn't really want to articulate it. 

I think its true.

I also think Hack as the backup also has to do with internal politics and saving Petty for later.

This is not a team that is trying to win.  They are trying to try to win, and I am perfectly ok with that, I think.

What I see on offense is bad personnel, which we knew we had.  On defense I see bad coaching, which is what is particularly frustrating.

If our defense is really better than how they play with a new coach, that is fine, because that means that they are even better when they get a new coach next year.  And they will get one.

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17 hours ago, slats said:

I actually thought this, too, but it's so pathetic that I didn't really want to articulate it. 

Another scenario could be that the Jets HC was playing pro football, not Madden or fantasy football .  The HC was criticized for going for 2 instead of kicking the extra point .  I will admit that my first impulse was why, but then it occurred to me that the odds of going for 2 are about the same as kicking an extra point these days and the fact that the game would have been tied made the move palatable . The HC was criticized for punting from his side of the 50 with under 4 minutes to go. With that offense, I would punt also . 

There's reason to be negative and reasons not to be, and it all depends on how open minded you are .

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9 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Another scenario could be that the Jets HC was playing pro football, not Madden or fantasy football .  The HC was criticized for going for 2 instead of kicking the extra point .  I will admit that my first impulse was why, but then it occurred to me that the odds of going for 2 are about the same as kicking an extra point these days and the fact that the game would have been tied made the move palatable . The HC was criticized for punting from his side of the 50 with under 4 minutes to go. With that offense, I would punt also

There's reason to be negative and reasons not to be, and it all depends on how open minded you are .

Without looking it up, I'll venture that the extra point kick is still a 95% success play (and his kicker had already hit two long FGs at that point), while the 2-point conversion is closer to a 50% play. 

As for the bold, then you, too, like the head coach, would've essentially been conceding the game. Because with that offense, if they couldn't convert a fourth down, score, and then get the ball back and score again, how the hell were they supposed to manage those two scores after punting? 

He deserves criticism for both moves. Had he kicked the extra point, it would've been a one score game at the end - at which point he still should've gone for it on fourth down with less than four minutes to play because, as noted, the two-point conversion is no guarantee. He should've been conservative when he went bold with the 2-point try, and absolutely had to be aggressive when he went into his shell with that terrible decision to punt. 

And I'm not one of the people who dumps on these guys at every opportunity, I think we have enough of that here. But that punt was a white flag that really only made it more difficult for Buffalo to add additional points, and nothing else. 

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