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Maxman

Bowles: Jamal was outstanding; Marcus had a good game - one play

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Just now, jgb said:

Yeah so I guess we should bring in Bowles' pop warner days to defend him. Come on Bellichick is the GOAT at this point. Bringing up ancient history is admitted you got nothing.

coaches grow and get better, but even in 2015 Bellichick was not immune from making bad decisions

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2016/01/13/bill-belichicks-7-worst-decisions-of-the-2015-season

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

coaches grow and get better, but even in 2015 Bellichick was not immune from making bad decisions

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2016/01/13/bill-belichicks-7-worst-decisions-of-the-2015-season

Uh, re-read what I wrote, unless you prefer knocking down strawmen. Didn't say immune, I said when he does they become national news. When Bowles makes a bad decision, it's par for the course.

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4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

coaches grow and get better, but even in 2015 Bellichick was not immune from making bad decisions

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2016/01/13/bill-belichicks-7-worst-decisions-of-the-2015-season

Just looked through your link. Man I WISH Jets coaches could make "mistakes" like these!

Week 2 vs. Bills: Throwing the ball in the fourth quarter with a 37-25 lead

Week 3 vs. Jaguars: Letting Brady drive down the field with a 44-10 lead

Week 16 and 17: Kneeing going into the half

A Jets HC would have a statute in MetLife if these were his BEST moments!

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

Uh, re-read what I wrote, unless you prefer knocking down strawmen. Didn't say immune, I said when he does they become national news. When Bowles makes a bad decision, it's par for the course.

Fro the record, that was a Boston paper, not a national news outlet and Bowles error was also reported in the local media. So, it seems pretty equal attention-wise.

All coaches make bad decisions and there are plenty of more opportunities for bad decisions when coaching a bad team. IMO, Bowles has the ingredients to become a very good HC. If BB is the standard, people should pay attention to how he became what he is today. He was not a very good HC when he was first hired in Cleveland; he gained experience, he learned, he improved. Like Bowles he has no ego and no alternate career goal other than being a HC. 

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29 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

People would have absolutely lost their sh*t if Bowles had opted for the extra point when down by two, and for good reason.  He made the right call, and the only argument otherwise is based on 100% complete hindsight of both the attempt failing and a TD then being allowed.  Absolutely no head coach should be making their decisions based on the mindset of those things happening.

I don't particularly like the guy, and will be fine to have him gone, but this place has reached one of its nearly unreadable states given how completely full of crap people have become, desperately trying to whine about everything possible.  The late punt on its own is reason enough to be annoyed, as well as plenty of other decisions during and even before this game.  This one doesn't come close to making the list, and trying to force it to makes the argument insufferable.

no real advantage to go for 2 there.  u cant be serious?  that failed conversion made the game a 2 score game 9 points instead of 8 points (one score).  

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3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Fro the records, that was a Boston paper, not a national new outlet and Bowles error was also reported in the local media. So, it seems pretty equal attention-wise.

All coaches make bad decisions and there are plenty of more opportunities for bad decisions when coaching a bad team. IMO, Bowles has the ingredients to become a very good HC. If BB is the standard, people should pay attention to how he became what he is today. He was not a very good HC when he was first hired in Cleveland; he gained experience, he learned, he improved. Like Bowles he has no ego and no alternate career goal other than being a HC. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I just can't see how it's productive to debate with someone who is trying to argue moral equivalence between Bill "He of 5 Rings" Bellichick  and Todd "Dunce Factory" Bowles. But hey, appreciate your passion. I'll let you have the last (unanswered) word.

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3 minutes ago, J-Diddy said:

no real advantage to go for 2 there.  u cant be serious?  that failed conversion made the game a 2 score game 9 points instead of 8 points (one score).  

Don't go for 2 until you must absolutely have 2.

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19 minutes ago, jgb said:

I dunno about that, many old timers (me included) argue never go for 2 in a tight game until 4th quarter unless there is horrible rain or snow. Just too many things can happen rendering the risk of going for 2 that early reckless. That said there are plenty of things to criticize Bowles over and that one doesn't even make the top 100.

I can get the basic concept of disagreement of when to do it, and that's fine, but as you're saying, it's a little ridiculous to try to use that as the real difference-maker in anyone's evaluation of Bowles.  Even if you think they should have waited, I'm sure you know full well if the game kept going and the Jets were down one late in the game, many of the same people around here would be going insane about that.

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1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

I can get the basic concept of disagreement of when to do it, and that's fine, but as you're saying, it's a little ridiculous to try to use that as the real difference-maker in anyone's evaluation of Bowles.  Even if you think they should have waited, I'm sure you know full well if the game kept going and the Jets were down one late in the game, many of the same people around here would be going insane about that.

Yeah we agree. Anyone hanging onto this already had their opinion set and is looking for another log to add to the bon fire.

And this is coming from someone who thinks Bowles is an utter nincompoop.

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Just now, J-Diddy said:

no real advantage to go for 2 there.  u cant be serious?  that failed conversion made the game a 2 score game 9 points instead of 8 points (one score).  

That's not true at all.  The failed attempt made it a 2 point game, instead of a 1 point game if hitting the extra point, or a tie if the 2-point was successful.

Once again, your basis is pure hindsight on events that occurred afterwards.  If the Jets had simply kicked the extra point and were able to make defensive stops, but continued to be down by one, or allowed a FG and were therefore down by 4, Bowles would be getting torn apart for not going for 2.  The basis for it being a bad idea is that Bowles should have assumed that the Jets would subsequently fail at everything, both the attempt and immediately after on defense.  Of course, if those exact events happening are what the team should be planning for, then the argument is rather baseless considering it's dependent on assumptions that the Jets were already destined to fail at everything.

Ultimately, the entire argument is that the Jets should not have attempted to tie up the game at that point in time, strictly so they could potentially attempt to tie up the game later, if one specific series of events were to occur.  You don't even have to agree with the decision in hindsight, but trying to use it as some sort of defining point has little logical support to it.

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40 minutes ago, jgb said:

Just looked through your link. Man I WISH Jets coaches could make "mistakes" like these!

Week 2 vs. Bills: Throwing the ball in the fourth quarter with a 37-25 lead

Week 3 vs. Jaguars: Letting Brady drive down the field with a 44-10 lead

Week 16 and 17: Kneeing going into the half

A Jets HC would have a statute in MetLife if these were his BEST moments!

Lmao! That's pretty funny sh*t right there! The question that should be asked is list Todd Bowles BEST MOMENTS of his decision making in 33 games. Honestly, I can't think of one, in either player usage or game day decisions.

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5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Lmao! That's pretty funny sh*t right there! The question that should be asked is list Todd Bowles BEST MOMENTS of his decision making in 33 games. Honestly, I can't think of one, in either player usage or game day decisions.

I can't wait until the Chowds experience real adversity again. The Globe's list of biggest mistakes are basically them crying that Patriots should've won by more in these games.

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Dalvin Cook looked like a superstar in the making last night, but we are too good and don't need a player of his speed and talent.

 

Effing MacCagnan's stupid drafting.

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14 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Dalvin Cook looked like a superstar in the making last night, but we are too good and don't need a player of his speed and talent.

 

Effing MacCagnan's stupid drafting.

As Parcells use to say, "let's not put him Canton quite yet", yes he looked good, he also has a competent line, blocking TE, speedy WRs taking the pressure off the box & most importantly a QB that can sling the ball down the field pretty good in Bradford. Give him our line, McClown, Tomlinson & Tye, and talk to me then.

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6 hours ago, jgb said:

His excuse "I decided to trust my defense there." 

Of course he did. He's Rex Ryan's less accomplished brother from another mother. What's ridiculous is he would trust a unit that McCoy was mocking with his feet all game to be successful 3 times to force a 3-and-out while leaving enough time to score TWICE after that. That's more likely than the offense having a puncher's chance of converting one 8 yard play?? And if you don't trust the offense to at least do that, what's it matter anyway? Even if the defense gets the ball back for you, you'll be asking the same offense to maintain TWO scoring drives, with an onsides kick recovered inbetween, with NO TIMEOUTS.

Image result for inconceivable

He is lost out there and has no business being on an NFL sideline with the big boy job. The only reason he will enjoy employment for the full season is he helps the Jets goal of securing #1 overall.

because, like it or not, the only side of the ball that has a chance of scoring points right now is the defense. 4 minutes left and a qb who can't make all the throws, there is little or no chance of making the first down let alone score any points.  it may sound defeatist but as dirty harry says you gotta know your (teams) limitations.

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It worries me that his first answer about watching film, what they need to do better, he talks defense immediately. Staying in our gaps.

HOW ABOUT SCORING SOME POINTS YOU MORON?!

You only have up 21. That's not bad. If you have some scoring ability of your own.

But no, let's focus on why the Bills scored more than 12 points. If we'd just shut them out we'd have won.

Sigh ...

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk


The DL lost the game. They didn't stop the run and they did. Pretty simple based on the match up. Again let the Jills win as many as possible...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

This guy is a total moron.  Worst coach we've ever had, hands down.  

It's really looking that way , I never thought I would see someone worse than Kotite but this guy is right there .

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49 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Dalvin Cook looked like a superstar in the making last night, but we are too good and don't need a player of his speed and talent.

 

Effing MacCagnan's stupid drafting.

Did you watch the entire game. Cook looked rather pedestrian through much of the 1st half, his stats benefited from some late 4th qtr runs when the Saints were gassed and in desperation mode.

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6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Did you watch the entire game. Cook looked rather pedestrian through much of the 1st half, his stats benefited from some late 4th qtr runs when the Saints were gassed and in desperation mode.

Saints have also been the worst defense in the entire league for 2 straight years but have been in the top 3 in scoring points!

So, based on that narrative, let's give the Jets defense 30 points a game, lol. Cooks, Diggs, Theilen & Bradford looked great but remember that it was against a Saints defense that literally stinks! 

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Not that I agree with the call, I'd have done it differently because, who cares.  But was Bowles really that wrong to think that his chances of getting a stop/turnover and an onside kick/FG with 3 time-outs is that much less likely than this offense completing a 4th an 8?

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35 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Not that I agree with the call, I'd have done it differently because, who cares.  But was Bowles really that wrong to think that his chances of getting a stop/turnover and an onside kick/FG with 3 time-outs is that much less likely than this offense completing a 4th an 8?

Personally, I'm just amazed the Jets still had all 3 of their timeouts left that late in the game. And who said Bowles hasn't improved???!??

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9 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

So do people agree Adams and Maye played well?  I wasn't able to watch.  

I know Maye got beat on the goalie for a TD, that's about it.

 Maye did not get beat on a goal line play for a TD not in the least. It was someone else's responsibility to pick up that TE and no one did. No way in hell Maye could have covered that play 

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6 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

That's not true at all.  The failed attempt made it a 2 point game, instead of a 1 point game if hitting the extra point, or a tie if the 2-point was successful.

Once again, your basis is pure hindsight on events that occurred afterwards.  If the Jets had simply kicked the extra point and were able to make defensive stops, but continued to be down by one, or allowed a FG and were therefore down by 4, Bowles would be getting torn apart for not going for 2.  The basis for it being a bad idea is that Bowles should have assumed that the Jets would subsequently fail at everything, both the attempt and immediately after on defense.  Of course, if those exact events happening are what the team should be planning for, then the argument is rather baseless considering it's dependent on assumptions that the Jets were already destined to fail at everything.

Ultimately, the entire argument is that the Jets should not have attempted to tie up the game at that point in time, strictly so they could potentially attempt to tie up the game later, if one specific series of events were to occur.  You don't even have to agree with the decision in hindsight, but trying to use it as some sort of defining point has little logical support to it.

Exactly ..nothing wrong at all with going for 2 there. If you are down by one or by 2 a field goal wins the game so it only makes sense to go for the tie at that stage.

Bowles is terrible, we all know that, but some people here want to question every single move the guy makes and its getting ridiculous. 

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9 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

People would have absolutely lost their sh*t if Bowles had opted for the extra point when down by two, and for good reason.  He made the right call, and the only argument otherwise is based on 100% complete hindsight of both the attempt failing and a TD then being allowed.  Absolutely no head coach should be making their decisions based on the mindset of those things happening.

I don't particularly like the guy, and will be fine to have him gone, but this place has reached one of its nearly unreadable states given how completely full of crap people have become, desperately trying to whine about everything possible.  The late punt on its own is reason enough to be annoyed, as well as plenty of other decisions during and even before this game.  This one doesn't come close to making the list, and trying to force it to makes the argument insufferable.

Thank you!!

For the sheer level of insanity at times out here think that you have people out here ACTUALLY comparing Bowles to Kotite as a Jet coach.

Do folks actually realize that Kotite is literally on several different lists as one of the worst coaches regardless of sport of ALL TIME!!

Bowles won 10 games and then 5 games in year two year and, in general, except for some brief moments; nothing like Kotite!!

Kotite...

Folks should be embarrassed for saying such rubbish!!

Good Grief!!

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44 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!!

For the sheer level of insanity at times out here think that you have people out here ACTUALLY comparing Bowles to Kotite as a Jet coach.

Do folks actually realize that Kotite is literally on several different lists as one of the worst coaches regardless of sport of ALL TIME!!

Bowles won 10 games and then 5 games in year two year and, in general, except for some brief moments; nothing like Kotite!!

Kotite...

Folks should be embarrassed for saying such rubbish!!

Good Grief!!

Didn't Kotite win 10 games in Philly? 

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Just now, Gen X Jet said:

Didn't Kotite win 10 games in Philly? 

Didn't Bowles win Assistant Coach of the year and have the Jets as a top 10 defense in his first year (You are what your record says you are) and he did the same with Fitzpatrick as his starting QB instead of Randall Cunningham in 1992 (Cunningham was hurt in 1991)? 

Didn't Kotite in Philly get fired because he couldn't win with ALL-STAR talent???????

Just to refresh your recollection the Phillly defense was considered one of the ALL TIME Greats when Kotite got the job there and he still couldn't win and in fact tore that team down year by year!!

This is a joke right?  

You can fantasize that Bowles is Kotite all you want to; but no one..... I MEAN...

NO ONE, other than posters out here make such an asinine comparison.

Why take my word for it and read for yourself!!

http://sportsfanreport.com/9-worst-head-coaches-in-nfl-history/6/

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/21/sports/kotite-fires-himself-before-jets-can-fire-him.html

http://deadspin.com/the-16-worst-coaches-in-modern-nfl-history-512701096

http://www.bleacherreport.com/articles/927976-the-40-worst-head-coaches-in-sports-history

http://www.therichest.com/sports/football-sports/the-10-worst-head-coaches-in-nfl-history/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/01/15/4-best-worst-coaches-in-jets-history/

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-the-worst-head-coach-in-the-history-of-the-NFL

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2008156541_nflbadcoaches04.html

http://nypost.com/2016/12/07/if-you-think-bowles-is-bad-keyshawn-johnsons-rich-kotite-stories-are-worse/

Do I need to go on and on and post the literally hundreds of articles and opinions like these??

Do I???????

Kotite didn't know the players and their names on his own team; Kotite would be disinterested, smoke cigars and talk on his cell phone while practice was going on and would literally disappear from practices in order to go and play golf!!

Indeed Kotite once explained one of stupid decisions like this..

At a post game press conference Kotite stated that "the reason he went for a (failed) two point conversion attempt rather than kick the point after" following the second touchdown late in the fourth quarter, was because the "rain made the ink run and blurred the chart, so I couldn't see what was written on it to know what to do."

Rich Kotite...

OH MY GOD!!!

You and the others have no IDEA what you are talking about and it is embarrassing!!

Good Grief!!!!

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, rangerous said:

because, like it or not, the only side of the ball that has a chance of scoring points right now is the defense. 4 minutes left and a qb who can't make all the throws, there is little or no chance of making the first down let alone score any points.  it may sound defeatist but as dirty harry says you gotta know your (teams) limitations.

Ah ok Bowles' decision to punt was actually a brilliant ploy to try to score more points. I take it all back, Bowles is actually an inter-dimensional omniscient god.

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7 hours ago, jgb said:

Ah ok Bowles' decision to punt was actually a brilliant ploy to try to score more points. I take it all back, Bowles is actually an inter-dimensional omniscient god.

it was a non decision and really not worthy of having so much comment on it.  it's one play.  remember when the bellichicken went for it with the great brady and got stuffed?  and then there are times when the punt is called and the other teams pushes the ball right down the field.  it happens to all coaches and they all get second guessed.  don't get me wrong there are lots of things that bowles bears the burden for.  i just don't think this one play should define his tenure as jets coach.  and it also negates the fact that he went for it on 4th and 1 from the goal and also for a two point play. both of those plays can be argued either way because they failed and took potential points off the board. 

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