Start Petty Next Week vs Dolphins

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

My prediction in the off season was that McCown would look good during the easy part of the schedule. 4 out of the first 5 games then he would get injured. He will return for the last 4 games and also look good, and beat the Pats 2nd team in week 17.

Now the real problem was the second part of the prediction was that Mac and Bowles would give him a 2 year extension. Fitz part 2. 2 year 24 mil. This is the real reason I do not want to see him play. 

When this happens you will all realize that i was right.

to be honest if we get a top 3 pick I want McCown here next year mentoring him.  The guy is completely selfless and always positive.  100% authentic every time I've heard him speak.

[Spoot-Face]

6 minutes ago, Pac said:

I'm cool with firing Bowles and Rogers right now.  I think it was a joke to fire half the coaches but leave your puppet DC in place. 

Sadly I think we're stuck with Bowles until end of the year as there's isn't really a coach on staff you can promote to interim HC.

Good, I would like them both gone, too. But my question is does it really even matter who the "puppet" DC is? I think not.

And I disagree that you can't fire Bowles in the middle of the season because there isn't a viable interim coach to replace him. If you are firing your HC in the middle of a rebuilding/tanking season, does it really matter who you put in charge the rest of the way? I think not.

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

to be honest if we get a top 3 pick I want McCown here next year mentoring him.  The guy is completely selfless and always positive.  100% authentic every time I've heard him speak.

I wouldn't be mad at McCown sticking around next season in the mentor role. As long as he's not starting or simply handed the starting role. Still might prefer to keep Petty around as the #2, though.

[Pac]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

Good, I would like them both gone, too. But my question is does it really even matter who the "puppet" DC is? I think not.

And I disagree that you can't fire Bowles in the middle of the season because there isn't a viable interim coach to replace him. If you are firing your HC in the middle of a rebuilding/tanking season, does it really matter who you put in charge the rest of the way? I think not.

I think if you hire a Wade Phillips or Jim Shwartz type then it does matter who the DC is.  Rogers appears to be either a yes man or someone incapable of making this D play well.  Any way you slice it he's terrible at his job and should have been fired.  I've watched his Thursday press conferences the last couple years and they're as vanilla as you can get.  No emotion, no fire, no attitude...  nothing.

While this may be a Bowles D it doesn't excuse how terrible Rogers has been.

[NYs Stepchild]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

Good, I would like them both gone, too. But my question is does it really even matter who the "puppet" DC is? I think not.

And I disagree that you can't fire Bowles in the middle of the season because there isn't a viable interim coach to replace him. If you are firing your HC in the middle of a rebuilding/tanking season, does it really matter who you put in charge the rest of the way? I think not.

That is correct. Just like the players you need to throw them out there and see what they can do. Who knows. Maybe someone will shock everyone and actually be a competent coach. 

Maybe the new GM and HC will want to retain some of these guys. Maybe someone could help our players develop. Sure couldn't hurt to try anything new at this point.

The alternative is akin to taking a knee. 

[Spoot-Face]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

I think if you hire a Wade Phillips or Jim Shwartz type then it does matter who the DC is.  Rogers appears to be either a yes man or someone incapable of making this D play well.  Any way you slice it he's terrible at his job and should have been fired.  I've watched his Thursday press conferences the last couple years and they're as vanilla as you can get.  No emotion, no fire, no attitude...  nothing.

While this may be a Bowles D it doesn't excuse how terrible Rogers has been.

True, if you got an actual defensive mind in here, then it would matter. But I don't think they'd hire someone like Shwartz to come in here with Bowles. Bowles would want his defense and Schwartz would want his own. It would never work. But I 100% would want Jim in here running his D rather than Todd.

[jetgreen13]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

If the Jets start Petty before this OL gels, he's going to be on the shelf within weeks . Petty is a down the field thrower and he will get himself hurt waiting for receivers to come open before letting the ball go.

...so bowles is somehow protecting petty from himself?? 

history could not be less on your side.....

[Tinstar]

21 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

...so bowles is somehow protecting petty from himself?? 

history could not be less on your side.....

Why does everything has t be about Bowles  ?   If he gets fired, all that's going to happen is that some of you will get someone new to hate . All I read is how lousy this team is and how it can't do whatever. How are the Jets ever going to score points. Last week against the Bills, the Jets scored 12 points and this week against what was expected to be a better defense, they scored 20 . Included in that was a down the field TD and some running plays that actually gained yardage and were not 3rd down draws . 

IMO, the worst thing about todays game was the play of Claiborne .

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

His best receiver got here 2 weeks ago and a huge piece of the puzzle hasn't even played yet.  I think Jenkins and McCown will have some really nice games but once we get to 8 losses it will be Petty time.

Great.  Kinda like last year.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Starting our young QB's when the team has checked out is not the answer...just like McCown is not the answer.

[Spoot-Face]

10 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Why does everything has t be about Bowles  ?   If he gets fired, all that's going to happen is that some of you will get someone new to hate . All I read is how lousy this team is and how it can't do whatever. How are the Jets ever going to score points. Last week against the Bills, the Jets scored 12 points and this week against what was expected to be a better defense, they scored 20 . Included in that was a down the field TD and some running plays that actually gained yardage and were not 3rd down draws . 

IMO, the worst thing about todays game was the play of Claiborne .

Totes. Claiborne was supposed to be a very powerful piece for us for years to come. Very disappointed with him. Wasted draft pick, IMO.

[Pac]

1 minute ago, greenwave81 said:

Great.  Kinda like last year.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Starting our young QB's when the team has checked out is not the answer...just like McCown is not the answer.

Nothing like last year.  Fitz was the worst QB in the league by far and we kept getting force fed his sh-tty performances.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but isn't it pretty clear that Petty ain't the answer either?  He'll get his chance to audition for a long term backup possibility but lets not act like McCown is getting in the way of the 2nd coming of Bret Favre. 

You don't bench McCown unless he's playing poorly or you're mathematically eliminated.  It sends the message to everyone on the team that you quit.

[jetgreen13]

5 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Why does everything has t be about Bowles  ?   If he gets fired, all that's going to happen is that some of you will get someone new to hate . All I read is how lousy this team is and how it can't do whatever. How are the Jets ever going to score points. Last week against the Bills, the Jets scored 12 points and this week against what was expected to be a better defense, they scored 20 . Included in that was a down the field TD and some running plays that actually gained yardage and were not 3rd down draws . 

IMO, the worst thing about todays game was the play of Claiborne .

perhaps.. or perhaps you will have a new HC to play devil's advocate for??

BTW, are you really trying to sell a complete garbage time TD that got us from 13 to 20 as progress?? or is that just more devil's advocate??

 

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

I like how people blame Kacy Rodgers for the defenses' woes when this is clearly Bowles' defense.

Who the DC is will NEVER matter under Bowles, just like with Rex.

It is, that is why they are tied together in my book. The time to fire Kacy was last year. Bowles opted not to do that. That was his one free pass.

If Kacy needs to get fired this year, then so does Bowles. Package deal now.

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Not yet Max, 2 more weeks to get this OL working together and then turn it over to Petty . The  young NYJets are improving, and quietly, the Jets may have found themselves an OC who can game plan .

Yeah I don't think he will play him. I would though.

But the OLine looked good today, so that is encouraging.

[nycdan]

I've seen a few people lump Kearse in with Forte and McCown.  He's only 28 years old and so far has been way better than expected.  I am completely comfortable keeping him as the #1 this year and having him and Quincy next season.  Neither of them is a true #1 the likes of Julio Jones, but Kearse is a solid #2 and young enough to be part of the team for a few years to come if they extend him.  He's definitely not over the hill.

[Tinstar]

Just now, Maxman said:

Yeah I don't think he will play him. I would though.

But the OLine looked good today, so that is encouraging.

I think he will, but not before week 5

[nycdan]

Just now, Maxman said:

Yeah I don't think he will play him. I would though.

But the OLine looked good today, so that is encouraging.

No chance.  Because Bowles loves Captain Dumpoff.  He keeps the games close enough keep Bowles employed.  I actually don't think McCown is playing that badly.  He had some nice runs today.  But he still isn't going to light up a scoreboard or give this team any chance to win a close game.  But to be fair, the play-calling is probably even more responsible for the lack of offense.  Just not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

[Dinamite]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

I've seen a few people lump Kearse in with Forte and McCown.  He's only 28 years old and so far has been way better than expected.  I am completely comfortable keeping him as the #1 this year and having him and Quincy next season.  Neither of them is a true #1 the likes of Julio Jones, but Kearse is a solid #2 and young enough to be part of the team for a few years to come if they extend him.  He's definitely not over the hill.

No need to extend him.  I think he is under contract for 5 mil next year.  A relative bargain.   I agree he is a good, solid receiver to hang on to.   Can we develop the kids too though?

[greenwave81]

15 minutes ago, Pac said:

Nothing like last year.  Fitz was the worst QB in the league by far and we kept getting force fed his sh-tty performances.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but isn't it pretty clear that Petty ain't the answer either?  He'll get his chance to audition for a long term backup possibility but lets not act like McCown is getting in the way of the 2nd coming of Bret Favre. 

You don't bench McCown unless he's playing poorly or you're mathematically eliminated.  It sends the message to everyone on the team that you quit.

What I know:

Josh McCown is a 38 yo vagabond QB who SHOULD be a backup...at best.

What I don't know:

Bryce Petty's potential.  He's had a rough go here.

Being that this season is going to be a total sh*tstorm, playing McCown is counterproductive.

 

[greenwave81]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I've seen a few people lump Kearse in with Forte and McCown.  He's only 28 years old and so far has been way better than expected.  I am completely comfortable keeping him as the #1 this year and having him and Quincy next season.  Neither of them is a true #1 the likes of Julio Jones, but Kearse is a solid #2 and young enough to be part of the team for a few years to come if they extend him.  He's definitely not over the hill.

I agree...Kerley though is another matter.

Fine as a #4 or #5, but Stewart and Hansen should be getting some playing time.

[nycdan]

Just now, Dinamite said:

No need to extend him.  I think he is under contract for 5 mil next year.  A relative bargain.   I agree he is a good, solid receiver to hang on to.   Can we develop the kids too though?

Kearse had 5 targets today and 2 were for TDs.  The fact that they aren't throwing much to the young guys is troubling but I'd have to watch film to see if it's the play-calling or because they just weren't getting open.

[Maxman]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

No chance.  Because Bowles loves Captain Dumpoff.  He keeps the games close enough keep Bowles employed.  I actually don't think McCown is playing that badly.  He had some nice runs today.  But he still isn't going to light up a scoreboard or give this team any chance to win a close game.  But to be fair, the play-calling is probably even more responsible for the lack of offense.  Just not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

McCown isn't the problem. He also isn't the answer.

If they lose to the Dolphins the phone will start ringing at Florham Park when they see the projected revenue numbers for the Jaguars game the following week. The boo birds will be out if McCown is starting both games.

[greenwave81]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

McCown isn't the problem. He also isn't the answer.

If they lose to the Dolphins the phone will start ringing at Florham Park when they see the projected revenue numbers for the Jaguars game the following week. The boo birds will be out if McCown is starting both games.

As well they should, because 'treading water' with McCown is just stupid.

The cluelessness of this team is evident.

[Maxman]

Just now, greenwave81 said:

As well they should, because 'treading water' with McCown is just stupid.

The cluelessness of this team is evident.

The other frustrating part is they are game planning like they are playing a rookie, yet he is 38 years old. Now part of that is probably trying to get the running game going with a young offensive line. And McCown does seem to not take a lot of chances. But at some point they have to open things up a bit.

[ASH1962]

2 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

They should start Petty next week, fire Todd Bowles, and name Josh McCown the interim Head Coach for the rest of the year. And yes, I'm being serious.

I'd take that in a heartbeat, make Morton the Assistant HC ...

[greenwave81]

Just now, Maxman said:

The other frustrating part is they are game planning like they are playing a rookie, yet he is 38 years old. Now part of that is probably trying to get the running game going with a young offensive line. And McCown does seem to not take a lot of chances. But at some point they have to open things up a bit.

McCown is playing like a more conservative Fitz...he's Fitz without the attitude.

Josh has been around for a LONG time...he's a survivor...all he does is enough to 'survive'.  At his age, all he has to do is look competent enough for another team, or the Jets, to give him another $5 mill next year.

He ain't gonna go out there and sling it around..if he looks like cr*p he's done.  This whole season will be check down city as long as Bowles trots him out there..after which he'll stand at the podium as a 'seasoned vet' and talk about how the O is 'growing' and making 'progress'.

[Charlie Brown]

23 minutes ago, nycdan said:

No chance.  Because Bowles loves Captain Dumpoff.  He keeps the games close enough keep Bowles employed.  I actually don't think McCown is playing that badly.  He had some nice runs today.  But he still isn't going to light up a scoreboard or give this team any chance to win a close game.  But to be fair, the play-calling is probably even more responsible for the lack of offense.  Just not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

If Fitz had played like McCown currently is the Jets would have been a serious contender for the playoffs; that is how putrid Fitz' play was last year!

McCown was not the problem today the defense was, but then again that Oakland offense is a tough one.

[win4ever]

LOL, I was watching the game and figured Ok, game is over at the start of the 4th, let's try Petty.  Nope, not Bowles.  Needs to dink and dunk down the field with McCown like he was trying to cover the spread.  I doubt he will start Petty anytime soon.  We will see McCown out there as long as he's healthy because Bowles just can't see that the team has no chance to win.  

[Jack Straw]

18 minutes ago, Maxman said:

The other frustrating part is they are game planning like they are playing a rookie, yet he is 38 years old. Now part of that is probably trying to get the running game going with a young offensive line. And McCown does seem to not take a lot of chances. But at some point they have to open things up a bit.

I think part of this is due to Todd Bowles being naturally conservative and part of it being that Todd Bowles is coaching to not get blown out. He doesn't care about winning, he cares about fielding a team that keeps things close enough so that he can sell the fans, media, and Woody the "we're young and we're bad but we're competitive and getting better" story in hopes that it's enough for him to get another year.

That's why this fool is kicking field goals when he's down by 40 (last year) and punting when he's down two scores with < 5 minutes left in games.

[RoadFan]

17 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

McCown is playing like a more conservative Fitz...he's Fitz without the attitude.

Josh has been around for a LONG time...he's a survivor...all he does is enough to 'survive'.  At his age, all he has to do is look competent enough for another team, or the Jets, to give him another $5 mill next year.

He ain't gonna go out there and sling it around..if he looks like cr*p he's done.  This whole season will be check down city as long as Bowles trots him out there..after which he'll stand at the podium as a 'seasoned vet' and talk about how the O is 'growing' and making 'progress'.

Very interesting take.  I think you are at least partially correct... maybe more.

Never heard anyone say that "competent losing" is a business decision.

[jetgreen13]

16 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

 

 

16 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

If Fitz had played like McCown currently is the Jets would have been a serious contender for the playoffs; that is how putrid Fitz' play was last year!

McCown was not the problem today the defense was, but then again that Oakland offense is a tough one.

agreed.. mccown's 38 year old *** need not apologize to anyone for what he brought to the table today.. respect given..

but if we as jet fans are to held hostage by bowles refusal to play the kids on offense, is it really to much to ask his side of the ball not to get lit up routinely??

 

 

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Very interesting take.  I think you are at least partially correct... maybe more.

Didnt consider that his "competent losing" is a business decision.

McCown is doing what he should be DOING; and this why no team should have him as their starting QB!

A QB can look worse and have poorer numbers than a QB who plays it safe.  McCown is a game manager at this stage of his career and there is nothing wrong with that, that is what his skill set permits him to do at this point and time.

In truth Bowles is in a real dilemma; the team just doesn't have the veteran leadership at the skill positions to win in the NFL right now and so taking chances on offense can get you to blow out city fast and then it can get real ugly for a team really fast.

IMO I don't see Bowles putting in Petty until Bowles is: 

1) assured that the OL is stable,

2) the guys who are currently suspended are firmly in the lineup and acclimated to the system and

3) that Petty can control the OL protection schemes adequately enough so that he doesn't get himself killed!

In this I am actually in agreement with Bowles on these points and we just have to wait for Petty to get his "second" chance.

[greenwave81]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

McCown is doing what he should be DOING; and this why no team should have him as their starting QB!

A QB can look worse and have poorer numbers than a QB who plays it safe.  McCown is a game manager at this stage of his career and there is nothing wrong with that, that is what his skill set permits him to do at this point and time.

In truth Bowles is in a real dilemma; the team just doesn't have the veteran leadership at the skill positions to win in the NFL right now and so taking chances on offense can get you to blow out city fast and then it can get real ugly for a team really fast.

IMO I don't see Bowles putting in Petty until Bowles is: 

1) assured that the OL is stable,

2) the guys who are currently suspended are firmly in the lineup and acclimated to the system and

3) that Petty can control the OL protection schemes adequately enough so that he doesn't get himself killed!

In this I am actually in agreement with Bowles on these points and we just have to wait for Petty to get his "second" chance.

Please....if you think Todd Bowles is playing McCown for any other reason than his own preservation, you are mistaken.

He don't care if everyone is 'here' or the OL is 'stable'...he just wants to look 'average'.  For the first half, the Jets looked 'NFL average'...great.

This team needs bold advances, not Josh McCown.  We need answers, not questions.

If Petty fails, and then Hack fails, we have answers...not more questions.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

It is, that is why they are tied together in my book. The time to fire Kacy was last year. Bowles opted not to do that. That was his one free pass.

If Kacy needs to get fired this year, then so does Bowles. Package deal now.

See, that's what I don't get. Seriously. Like Pac said, Kacy is a "puppet" DC. Like, he doesn't matter. At all. Why any amount of blame goes on him is beyond me. (I'm totally not saying I think he's good and want to keep him though.) But this is Bowles' defense. Period. If the defensive game plans are failing, it's on Bowles, not Kacy. If Kacy needs to be fired, it's because he's running a sh*tty defense that was drawn up by Bowles.

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, Reynolds1029 said:

Unfortunately we wont start Petty until we are mathematically eliminated. 

Probably about 7-10 games after that point, actually.