Mo Wilkerson Contract (Just mentioned on SNY post-game)

[bealeb319]

Yes either major pay cut or outright released, most definitely. Looks like jets will draft another d-lineman in the first round!

What position does kony ealy play?

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[Barkus]

2 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 

What position does kony ealy play?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

If Toilet is still the coach it will be OLB or maybe even punt returner with the moron in charge!

[Charlie Brown]

I just want to say I am very proud of the way the posters out here have responded to obvious foolishness!!

Thank you!!

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I just want to say I am very proud of the way the posters out here have responded to obvious foolishness!!

Thank you!!

They were predictable. It's a sports forum. It wasn't going another way and this obvious fool knew that from the start. 

[Rangers9]

You never sign a guy like Mo coming off of a bad injury. You wait to see how the guy plays before you give them a big contract. 

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, Freemanm said:

You really don't think his absence has anything to do with why we went from being in the top five run defenses in 2015 to having a piss poor run defense today?

Obviously not. That's why I asked how much his absence affected the defense.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

 

I believe it's that the offense somehow got worse. At least before last year there was a semblance of a running game sometimes. As much as he was a great find, the kind of find the Jets don't get nearly enough, the Jets aren't where they are because they gave up a run stuffer who plays half the snaps on defense. 

Yeah, I don't think the loss of Snacks alone was the reason for the entire team's breakdown. While it certainly hurt, there were certainly other factors that played into it. I'm just wondering how much better--if at all--we would've looked in 2016 had we kept him.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

On the surface it seems so, but that "dead" amount is already gone whether we keep him or not. We save his full salary amount, since none of it is guaranteed (unless he gets injured, I think). They save $17m because they won't be paying him another $17m. 

Depending on how much they're looking to spend in 2018 (i.e. how much cap space they need next year), they could designate him a June 1 cut. His cap hit would then drop from $20m to $3m (rather than $9m), and then in 2019 there'd be a $6m donut hole. It's $9m "dead" either way, but consider they got to use ~$6m extra space in 2016 (to use towards Fitzpatrick ). So it's not a penalty, per se. It's just that we chose to have that money hit later rather than earlier.

But just to avoid looking stupid, assuming the GM is Maccagnan, I think he'd spread the $9m over 2 years to prevent lots of internet fans from seeing that full amount in dead space all in 1 lump sum. He'll get more flack for dead hits of $9m and $0 than for hits of $3m and $6m, even though they're the same thing. Plus it'll make cutting him next year look like that much more of a no-brainer, as the savings will seem more significant than it is in actuality.

Who knows....maybe he stays one more year, and if the Jets put a semblance of a decent team together, maybe that will spark him enough to try again.  Makes it a tad more palatable to let him go.  We definitely got Haynesworth-ed on that one.  Since signing his contract, he has disappeared.  

Not looking good for Mac.  I think every GM makes mistakes, and makes them yearly.  But the mistakes are starting to pile up so high that he may not survive. 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Shame I defended this guy.  He took the money and ran.  Probably because Temple players get special treatment tho. 

 

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

I was all about this guy. I defended him! He fooled the sh*t outta me. Definitely release his sorry ass. He can go hang out with Coples. 

How dare he not show gratitude. He's an ingrate to let you two down.

[Maxman]

Thank you to the moderator that cleaned this mess of a thread up.

I won't name names, but to the person that took this off-topic, this isn't the place for that stuff.

[Fantasy Island]

Mevi$ taught Mo well.

[Il Mostro]

4 hours ago, pointman said:

So let Snacks go, sell Sheldon, and then release Mo. Sounds like we getting ready to try something new and draft a DL in the 1st round.

Linemen are so passe.  We're going all safeties, all the time.

[Jetsplayer21]

6 hours ago, Barkus said:

Yes either major pay cut or outright released, most definitely. Looks like jets will draft another d-lineman in the first round!

Lol.  That could happen. Make could take our 2nd round pick and move up one spot and draft a Dlineman in 1st round

[long suffering jets fan]

8 hours ago, Barkus said:

Yes either major pay cut or outright released, most definitely. Looks like jets will draft another d-lineman in the first round!

So how much more did we pay for Wilkerson, than the Giants paid for Snacks?

[long suffering jets fan]

8 hours ago, Dunnie said:

 

I've been saying this for weeks ... McCagnan did an awesome job structuring his contract. A+

 

 

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Imagine a cheaper DL consisting of Leo Williams, Sheldon Richardson and Snacks Harrison.  We lost two of those better players to keep Wilkerson.  Wow!  What a way to destroy a team.

[long suffering jets fan]

8 hours ago, tfine said:

 

Mac didn't draft Wilk


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Yeah, but he was decent before Bowles and Rodgers got their hands on him.

[Super Bowl before I die]

7 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I can't believe that Gato's schtick still gets a rise out of some of you. Nice.

 

[long suffering jets fan]

7 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

IIRC, Snacks was the only significant change on defense from 2015 to 2016. I wonder how much his absence played a factor in the breakdown on defense.

Huge!

[long suffering jets fan]

7 hours ago, SenorGato said:

 

I believe it's that the offense somehow got worse. At least before last year there was a semblance of a running game sometimes. As much as he was a great find, the kind of find the Jets don't get nearly enough, the Jets aren't where they are because they gave up a run stuffer who plays half the snaps on defense. 

The Snacks loss on defense created a problem where we didn't have one.  You saw yesterday what happens when you can't stop the run.  How much of the raider passing game was enabled because we had to dedicate more people to stopping the run?

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

The Snacks loss on defense created a problem where we didn't have one.  You saw yesterday what happens when you can't stop the run.  How much of the raider passing game was enabled because we had to dedicate more people to stopping the run?

So right, I was a major advocate of keeping Snacks. He makes a team one dimensional. Personally I'd bench Mo even on 17 mill per. You only pay real pass rushers that money, not a 3-4 DE not call JJ Watt. 

[long suffering jets fan]

13 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

So right, I was a major advocate of keeping Snacks. He makes a team one dimensional. Personally I'd bench Mo even on 17 mill per. You only pay real pass rushers that money, not a 3-4 DE not call JJ Watt. 

Agreed.  Now's the time to see what we can do with the rest of the roster.  If we'd have kept Snacks and let Wilkerson go I think we would have had a much better go of it yesterday with Snacks, Williams and Richardson.  Instead we spent more money to get less value and destroyed our DL in the process.

[EM31]

He got his money. Good for him I guess, but he is all out of excuses at this point. Even the extended injury recovery ones.

Mo, please put up or shut up because right now you are stealing a pay check and from here it looks like your motor is the problem.

[TMAC]

The Jets had Snacks, Richardson and Mo. Only Mo is left.  What does that say about Maccagnan?

[nyjunc]

If we re-signed Harrison and let Mo go 95% of Jet fans would have bashed the move.  how was Macc supposed to know Mo would quit once he got his big contract? and as good as Harrison is he wouldn't have made much of a difference w/ the way this team is coached.

[Dunnie]

Imagine a cheaper DL consisting of Leo Williams, Sheldon Richardson and Snacks Harrison.  We lost two of those better players to keep Wilkerson.  Wow!  What a way to destroy a team.

 

Imagine a decimated DL when Richardson gets suspended for an entire season ...

 

 

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[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Imagine a cheaper DL consisting of Leo Williams, Sheldon Richardson and Snacks Harrison.  We lost two of those better players to keep Wilkerson.  Wow!  What a way to destroy a team.

Richardson wants to get paid and that wasn't changing, Harrison would have been paid.  it would have been cheaper for a year or 2 but moves would have had to be made.

2 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

The Snacks loss on defense created a problem where we didn't have one.  You saw yesterday what happens when you can't stop the run.  How much of the raider passing game was enabled because we had to dedicate more people to stopping the run?

In 2015 our run D allowed 3.6 YPC

In 2016 our run D allowed 3.7 YPC

 

No one wanted to lose Harrison but the D didn't fall apart b/c of that move.  McClendon did a nice job and did he ever return after he got hurt yesterday? 

[rangerous]

11 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

If you are serious about rebuilding you pay the $17M for '17 and trade him for a 4th to a contender in need of a DL. 

that's a good point.  the jet dline was just getting blown off the ball all day against oakland.  no qb pressure. i'm not sure if they even had a tackle for a loss. there's no point to keeping an expensive dlineman around if he can be moved.

[sciond]

Bench the bitch he suck.

 Trade him for a bag of balls

[Lith]

13 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

According to over the cap, we save about $11 million next year, but would have about $9 million in dead money.  Might be worth it though, given the $100 million in cap space.  We can absorb it and be done with this dog. 

 You are correct -- I am pretty sure Vacchiano was wrong.  If we cut him next year, we save his $17MM base salary for 2018, but it accelerates $6MM of signing bonus into 2018, saving us $11MM in cap space, not the $17MM that Ralph V reported.  Still might be worth it if Mo continues to be invisible this year.  

It is such a shame -- I loved the guy for 5 years, he was everything you wanted out of a home grown talent.  I was glad he got the contract when he did -- I thought he earned it with his play.  Last year, I assumed it was injury related and that he would rebound this year.  Doesn't look like its happening.  Next year may be time to eat the $9MM and move on.

[BurnleyJet]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

 You are correct -- I am pretty sure Vacchiano was wrong.  If we cut him next year, we save his $17MM base salary for 2018, but it accelerates $6MM of signing bonus into 2018, saving us $11MM in cap space, not the $17MM that Ralph V reported.  Still might be worth it if Mo continues to be invisible this year.  

It is such a shame -- I loved the guy for 5 years, he was everything you wanted out of a home grown talent.  I was glad he got the contract when he did -- I thought he earned it with his play.  Last year, I assumed it was injury related and that he would rebound this year.  Doesn't look like its happening.  Next year may be time to eat the $9MM and move on.

I'd take the 11 mill, and accept the dead money. Not the kind of player we want on our books with new regime change, and culture.  

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Who knows....maybe he stays one more year, and if the Jets put a semblance of a decent team together, maybe that will spark him enough to try again.  Makes it a tad more palatable to let him go.  We definitely got Haynesworth-ed on that one.  Since signing his contract, he has disappeared.  

Not looking good for Mac.  I think every GM makes mistakes, and makes them yearly.  But the mistakes are starting to pile up so high that he may not survive. 

So with someone like that, I don't see how you give him yet another chance and pay him $17m for the 2018 season. Now IMO the burden of proof, that he's changed his ways, should be on Mo not on the Jets. The Jets did their part in terms of goodwill. If he wants that full paycheck, it's Mo that needs to put up. If he wants to take a cut, where he can earn it back with incentives, I'd be fine with that but I suspect Mo would scoff at the idea (figuring he could shop himself around for a new deal with a new signing bonus from somewhere else).

The problem is he doesn't play a "stats" position, so it's difficult (in terms of contract language/terms) to show he's earned it, or failed to earn it. Those types of things are pretty subjective, unlike how many games active, how many sacks, tackles, rushing yards, picks, etc. That's not how his position's worth is measured, both on and off the field, and you're not going to easily find a HC who'll dock his bonus pay by making him a healthy scratch for disciplinary/effort reasons for game after game, while keeping him in the locker room. It'd be an untenable situation.

So I don't see how we keep him, but think there's a pretty good chance the team will anyway.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

If we re-signed Harrison and let Mo go 95% of Jet fans would have bashed the move.  how was Macc supposed to know Mo would quit once he got his big contract? and as good as Harrison is he wouldn't have made much of a difference w/ the way this team is coached.

Because he had to talk with him about his effort even before rewarding him with it? Anyone who expects such effort to improve after getting the next 2 years guaranteed at such whopping numbers is a fool. The team knew, and is why they'd (allegedly) previously tried to trade him / avoid extending him going back to the spring of 2014.

I do think when effort, rather than ability, is a huge problem then a stand-up presence (particularly from such a large man) like Snacks can have a big influence. It makes it more difficult, though, once Mo's paychecks are guaranteed for 2 upcoming seasons, in excess of $1m per game. So just because Snacks' influence helped in 2015 and prior doesn't mean it'd have still helped once Mo was extended.

But the best thing to do with players like that are to take those cheaper years as "profit" and spend the team's serious cap dollars elsewhere. You trade someone like that, even if you don't get the return you truly covet. Let someone else sign him and those bashing the move would shut up soon after seeing Mo was a big zero elsewhere. We keep the one who doesn't need to be told to try harder and act as a leader (instead of just announcing he's going to be a leader but fall short of much beyond the words themselves).

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So with someone like that, I don't see how you give him yet another chance and pay him $17m for the 2018 season. Now IMO the burden of proof, that he's changed his ways, should be on Mo not on the Jets. The Jets did their part in terms of goodwill. If he wants that full paycheck, it's Mo that needs to put up. If he wants to take a cut, where he can earn it back with incentives, I'd be fine with that but I suspect Mo would scoff at the idea (figuring he could shop himself around for a new deal with a new signing bonus from somewhere else).

The problem is he doesn't play a "stats" position, so it's difficult (in terms of contract language/terms) to show he's earned it, or failed to earn it. Those types of things are pretty subjective, unlike how many games active, how many sacks, tackles, rushing yards, picks, etc. That's not how his position's worth is measured, both on and off the field, and you're not going to easily find a HC who'll dock his bonus pay by making him a healthy scratch for disciplinary/effort reasons for game after game, while keeping him in the locker room. It'd be an untenable situation.

So I don't see how we keep him, but think there's a pretty good chance the team will anyway.

As much as I don't like it, as you know we have had our disagreements on this, I find it harder and harder to think Mac can right this ship.  I mean, when you are Bellichuk and you have the track record you do, cutting a guy like Mo who has dogged it for two years after getting a BIG contract can be justified to the owner in a meeting.  But Mac has no success stories to sell Woody on.  He has to sit there and say "yeah, I guess I gave a whopping contract to the wrong guy, and he should go now.  You will have to eat millions in doing so."  BUT, we have a QB to build around....no wait, we have a SOLID D-line to build around...no wait, our receiving core was revamped...no wait....I spent TONS of money a couple of years to lock down our CB problem....no wait.

We have a pair of safeties now!

[long suffering jets fan]

13 hours ago, Dunnie said:

 

Imagine a decimated DL when Richardson gets suspended for an entire season ...

 

 

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At least we'd still have Snacks and Williams,  instead we have Wilkerson who's not producing and Williams and a horrible run defense.

[long suffering jets fan]

14 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Richardson wants to get paid and that wasn't changing, Harrison would have been paid.  it would have been cheaper for a year or 2 but moves would have had to be made.

In 2015 our run D allowed 3.6 YPC

In 2016 our run D allowed 3.7 YPC

 

No one wanted to lose Harrison but the D didn't fall apart b/c of that move.  McClendon did a nice job and did he ever return after he got hurt yesterday? 

And the sack total went from 39 to 27.  I partially attribute that to Harrison tying up two defenders freeing up the DEs.