Is this an actual rebuild?

[Freemanm]

The O-line has been a bit better than O expected, although I'd like to see a solid center. So much for the young WRs. Peake, Stewart, etc. are totally ineffective and on any other team, might be 4th and 5th receivers in spread formations. And is Darron Lee officially a bust? He's so far been non-existent these first two games. Both Oakland and Buffalo have rushed for over 100 yes EACH. 

[T0mShane]

[LionelRichie]

The jets talk about 'rebuilding' because it's a convenient excuse to suck.  There are almost no pieces to rebuild around and you don't rebuild with safeties and tiny linebackers.   If macc had traded down from 6, added a 1st next year, and drafted a pass rusher, QB, or OL then you could call it a rebuild.   

In all reality the rebuild starts next season with a new GM   

 

[Spoot-Face]

10 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

The O-line has been a bit better than O expected, although I'd like to see a solid center. So much for the young WRs. Peake, Stewart, etc. are totally ineffective and on any other team, might be 4th and 5th receivers in spread formations. And is Darron Lee officially a bust? He's so far been non-existent these first two games. Both Oakland and Buffalo have rushed for over 100 yes EACH. 

Darron Lee has certainly NOT been non-existent. He's constantly around EVERY SINGLE play... for the other team.

[Smashmouth]

Its a complete destruction leading to a re-build

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

The jets talk about 'rebuilding' because it's a convenient excuse to suck.  There are almost no pieces to rebuild around and you don't rebuild with safeties and tiny linebackers.   If macc had traded down from 6, added a 1st next year, and drafted a pass rusher, QB, or OL then you could call it a rebuild.   

In all reality the rebuild starts next season with a new GM   

 

This. The plan was clearly to paper over the roster with veterans in 2015 and 2016, after which all the guys he drafted would take over and form the core of a contender. Instead nearly all the guys he's drafted are wet dogsh*t, so now all of a sudden none of those picks count and it's Actually Good that we have one good player on the entire roster. 

[Spoot-Face]

Macc and Co. be rebuilding like:

[JustInFudge]

3 years into a rebuild this is the proper real rebuild. 

[Freemanm]

Seriously, when you talk about building a contender, let's harken back to that short period when Tannenbaum was actually competent, and Mangini was still coach. The Jets teams that went to back to back AFCCGs weren't built overnight. The building of those teams started a few years earlier when the Jets drafted Brick and Mangold, and Revis and David Harris a year earlier. Then they went out and signed guys like Thomas Jones, LT, Damien Woody, Cro, etc. 

My point is, by the time Suckchez was drafted, there was already a great team in place. 

Honestly, I don't see any of that here. If there is a rebuild going on, where are the pieces that need to be in place to give Darnold or Rosen any chance to succeed? I honestly don't think any of the receivers drafted by Macc are very good. He's basically ignored the O-line since he's gotten here, and Darron Lee really isn't all that outstanding. The only two good players so far that Macc has drafted that I can see are Leo Williams and Juston Burris (who's mysteriously still playing behind Buster Skrine). Jury is still out on Jamal Adams, but a saftey is not what you build a team around. Ed Reed was one of the greatest of all times but that Ravens team wasn't built around him. 

Oh, and you also have a head coach who's in way over his head. He might as well be wearing a sign...

If this is a rebuild, I don't see any of the pieces in place already to welcome a first pick QB. 

[Obrien2Toon]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Can someone explain this to me

[RSJ]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This. The plan was clearly to paper over the roster with veterans in 2015 and 2016, after which all the guys he drafted would take over and form the core of a contender. Instead nearly all the guys he's drafted are wet dogsh*t, so now all of a sudden none of those picks count and it's Actually Good that we have one good player on the entire roster. 

Wait, there's a good player on this roster?

[RSJ]

It's pretty funny that the coach Woody was the quickest to fire during his 20 years of owning the team (Mangini), may have built the best team Woody will ever see. Says a lot about what a moron he is.

[Jolot]

3 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Wait, there's a good player on this roster?

Hackenberg...duh 

[jetrider]

No rebuild. It's all here, loud and clear, in Todd Bowles wafflebonics:

"No, we’re always trying to win,” Bowles said Thursday, before the Marshall news, when asked if the Jets were rebuilding. “Whether we kept them or we let them go, we’re always trying to win. We don’t do anything in the mindset [of rebuilding]. You rebuild as far as people and names, but you don’t rebuild in terms of trying to win or not win. We’re trying to win all the time.”

“I’m not afraid of the unknown,” Bowles said. “We don’t have the names that we had in the past, but that doesn’t mean we won’t have the players.”

The young players I don’t worry about because you have to teach. You teach football. Whether they’re old or they’re young, you treat them the same and you teach football. That the part of it I’m excited about. I’m not afraid of the unknown. I felt no differently the day I took the job than I do now. I have a lot of faith whether our older guys stay or we have some young guys come in and play. It’s up to us to teach them as coaches.”

“We just need to play smarter and more disciplined,” Bowles said. “That’s the biggest thing. We need to play smarter. It’s not a quality to add. I think we have to add the right people that take over the team to make this their team and add those qualities themselves and the coaches will emulate that and make sure we put that forward.”

"Obviously, we want to win a lot more games than last year. We want to go to the playoffs. That’s what we’re coaching and striving to do. That’s my goal.”

“Our goal is the Super Bowl no matter what.”

 

 

[Dcronin]

The theory that Woody is planning to sell is a decent one...

[jetrider]

4 minutes ago, jetrider said:

No rebuild. It's all here, loud and clear, in Todd Bowles wafflebonics:

"No, we’re always trying to win,” Bowles said Thursday, before the Marshall news, when asked if the Jets were rebuilding. “Whether we kept them or we let them go, we’re always trying to win. We don’t do anything in the mindset [of rebuilding]. You rebuild as far as people and names, but you don’t rebuild in terms of trying to win or not win. We’re trying to win all the time.”

“I’m not afraid of the unknown,” Bowles said. “We don’t have the names that we had in the past, but that doesn’t mean we won’t have the players.”

The young players I don’t worry about because you have to teach. You teach football. Whether they’re old or they’re young, you treat them the same and you teach football. That the part of it I’m excited about. I’m not afraid of the unknown. I felt no differently the day I took the job than I do now. I have a lot of faith whether our older guys stay or we have some young guys come in and play. It’s up to us to teach them as coaches.”

“We just need to play smarter and more disciplined,” Bowles said. “That’s the biggest thing. We need to play smarter. It’s not a quality to add. I think we have to add the right people that take over the team to make this their team and add those qualities themselves and the coaches will emulate that and make sure we put that forward.”

"Obviously, we want to win a lot more games than last year. We want to go to the playoffs. That’s what we’re coaching and striving to do. That’s my goal.”

“Our goal is the Super Bowl no matter what.”

^ Proof that Macc is quietly doing as told. It's Bowles' team, Bowles' vision, Bowles' sh!tfest. Macc is just the triggerman. He did everything Todd's way. 

Bowles wanted vet leaders off the team so he can run his own brand of kindergarten kumbaya and Super Bowl Guyana kool-aid.

[sciond]

You build a team from the lines out and the Jets have not done this. The O'Line has been ignored for many years.

 Secondly whether this is a rebuild or not nothing gets better without a franchise QB

[Integrity28]

35 minutes ago, jetrider said:

No rebuild. It's all here, loud and clear, in Todd Bowles wafflebonics:

"No, we’re always trying to win,” Bowles said Thursday, before the Marshall news, when asked if the Jets were rebuilding. “Whether we kept them or we let them go, we’re always trying to win. We don’t do anything in the mindset [of rebuilding]. You rebuild as far as people and names, but you don’t rebuild in terms of trying to win or not win. We’re trying to win all the time.”

“I’m not afraid of the unknown,” Bowles said. “We don’t have the names that we had in the past, but that doesn’t mean we won’t have the players.”

The young players I don’t worry about because you have to teach. You teach football. Whether they’re old or they’re young, you treat them the same and you teach football. That the part of it I’m excited about. I’m not afraid of the unknown. I felt no differently the day I took the job than I do now. I have a lot of faith whether our older guys stay or we have some young guys come in and play. It’s up to us to teach them as coaches.”

“We just need to play smarter and more disciplined,” Bowles said. “That’s the biggest thing. We need to play smarter. It’s not a quality to add. I think we have to add the right people that take over the team to make this their team and add those qualities themselves and the coaches will emulate that and make sure we put that forward.”

"Obviously, we want to win a lot more games than last year. We want to go to the playoffs. That’s what we’re coaching and striving to do. That’s my goal.”

“Our goal is the Super Bowl no matter what.”

 

 

All this... but because he couldn't teach last year, or command authority, he had to fire his whole staff. Except, of course, Kacy Rodgers... that dude is bullet proof.

Trying to win - but not.

Always teaching - except when you can't.

Goals is to win the Super Bowl - except when goal is to milk another year of employment out of the dip-sh*ttiest franchise in the NFL.

[detectivekimble]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

All this... but because he couldn't teach last year, or command authority, he had to fire his whole staff. Except, of course, Kacy Rodgers... that dude is bullet proof.

Trying to win - but not.

Always teaching - except when you can't.

Goals is to win the Super Bowl - except when goal is to milk another year of employment out of the dip-sh*ttiest franchise in the NFL.

Dumb and dumber running that defense and destroying player's careers.

[jetrider]

9 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

All this... but because he couldn't teach last year, or command authority, he had to fire his whole staff. Except, of course, Kacy Rodgers... that dude is bullet proof.

Trying to win - but not.

Always teaching - except when you can't.

Goals is to win the Super Bowl - except when goal is to milk another year of employment out of the dip-sh*ttiest franchise in the NFL.

I actually liked Bowles until I heard his rants. Then I realized we're in deep sh!t all over again.

He contradicts himself left and right, but what irks me most is the part that seems to suggest young players should figure it out themselves so he can ride the palanquin.  

[Pointdexter]

Lionel Richie gets it. It still disgusts me that Macc passed on an opportunity to trade back and aquire major draft capital last april when "the phone was ringing off the hook" for slot 6. If you didn't like one of the QBs so be it, but staying put at 6 and draft an effing strong safety, who is good but not great, is unforgivable. Macc sold us on him being a generational talent; he is not.

If it were me, I would have drafted Watson/Mahomes at 6 and then Dalvin Cook in rd 2. This year I would have a hard time deciding between home run WR threat James Washington and Derwin James (who may be the best defensive prospect since Clowney).  But what do I know, I'm just a SOJF.

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This. The plan was clearly to paper over the roster with veterans in 2015 and 2016, after which all the guys he drafted would take over and form the core of a contender. Instead nearly all the guys he's drafted are wet dogsh*t, so now all of a sudden none of those picks count and it's Actually Good that we have one good player on the entire roster. 

Oh Good Grief!!

You act like you want actual RESULTS!!!!! 

[Pointdexter]

But back to the actual topic...the fans who defend Macc and talk about this amazing rebuild, it's a farce.  This is someone sucking at their job really bad and an organization spinning their wheels at the bottom of the league. We're years away from being competitive, like minimum 3 years, but probably more like 5. People rationalize Macc by pointing to below avg talent acquisitions like Anderson, Shell and Burris, like it's some sort of feather in his cap. These guys are no-names that will be out of the league in 3 years, not tent poles for the incredible "rebuild".

Our only hope is cleaning house and bringing in some ppl who know what the hell they're doing.

[Fantasy Island]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

@#$% that lion.

[jetrider]

12 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Lionel Richie gets it. It still disgusts me that Macc passed on an opportunity to trade back and aquire major draft capital last april when "the phone was ringing off the hook" for slot 6. If you didn't like one of the QBs so be it, but staying put at 6 and draft an effing strong safety, who is good but not great, is unforgivable. Macc sold us on him being a generational talent; he is not.

If it were me, I would have drafted Watson/Mahomes at 6 and then Dalvin Cook in rd 2. This year I would have a hard time deciding between home run WR threat James Washington and Derwin James (who may be the best defensive prospect since Clowney).  But what do I know, I'm just a SOJF.

Ritchie gets it except for the GM part. Macc-haters don’t get how it works. Stating what you would’ve done is pointless. Macc would’ve done it differently too. But he didn’t lock himself in a room and make decisions by himself. He stuck to Bowles’ plan and served the HC as directed. If you want to blame Macc for listening to Bowles, that’s another story.

Ever hear Bowles talk about QBs? Only when questioned by reporters and even then it’s very brief. In his mind he doesn’t need a QB. It’s just a minor JAG position that’ll sort itself out.

Winning is all about defense. It begins at safety because when Bowles played he imagined he was the one player on the field that made it all happen. Read Bowles’ words (btw, does Macc ever give ramble-jabber nonsense like that?), Bowles is perfectly content and ready to rumble because he has what he thinks he needs to win.

 

[varjet]

This is a complex situation, and the resulting NFL's Worst Roster is really the result of a multiple of phases, the first 2 of which were bungled, and the rest are still open.

• Competitive Phase-Mac traded five draft picks for veterans with contracts, and signed multiple others.  Result was almost the playoffs and Exec of Year!  As of now, 2015 draft not looking great.
• Competitive Rebuild Phase-draft Lee for Bowles and Hack as QB to succeed Fitz.  Not good.  Drafted Shell, Burris and Jenkis as mid-round starters-those look pretty good.  I have not given up on Burris-he needs to learn, and he was playing against a very good WR2 in Crabtree.  I would revisit him at the end of the year.
• Light Competitive Rebuild-draft players with an eye to roster building but still listen to Bowles in picking players for system.   Draft WRs/TE not OL.  Draft 2 safeties.   Traded down after round 2.  If true rebuild, would have traded down from start.  Pursue certain free agents but luckily fail (Hightower, Jefferson).
• True Rebuild/Tank-after OTA release Decker and Harris, trade SR.  Now they are truly rebuilding, but after they already drafted.

So it is kinda hard to make a true objective evaluation of this mess, although some of the decisions are pretty damning regardless of whether the plan was fluid.

[Kleckineau]

I would love to believe this season is by design but honestly I think it is more likely the inevitable collapse caused by a GM/HC combo that were over promoted.

[varjet]

29 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

I would love to believe this season is by design but honestly I think it is more likely the inevitable collapse caused by a GM/HC combo that were over promoted.

I think the overpromotion is clearly true.

I think this season became the plan after the OTAs when they cut Decker and Harris.   Bowles never thought he was signing up for a 0-3 win team this year.  They tried to sign Glennon, Hightower and Jefferson.  The WRs drafted were supposed to help replace Marshall.  They thought they could get by this here with Johnson at C and not draft one.  That is not what a tanking team does.   When Woody saw what Hack looked like at the OTA, he and his cronies realized that they needed to tank.

Just my perspective. 

On a positive note, I think they were smart on McCown, in that he does perform in a way that looks better than his record.  

[joewilly12]

Starting a 38 year old bum NFL QB is not a rebuild its stupidity. 

[varjet]

35 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Starting a 38 year old bum NFL QB is not a rebuild its stupidity. 

It was there as a 50/50 need who can make another $2mm if he starts the whole season.  The hope was that Hack would be starting as part of the competitive rebuild.

McCown has made 250K already, and counting.

[flgreen]

15 hours ago, RSJ said:

It's pretty funny that the coach Woody was the quickest to fire during his 20 years of owning the team (Mangini), may have built the best team Woody will ever see. Says a lot about what a moron he is.

Yeah, got to say the Mangini firing, was a bit baffling to me

[#27TheDominator]

15 hours ago, sciond said:

You build a team from the lines out and the Jets have not done this. The O'Line has been ignored for many years.

 Secondly whether this is a rebuild or not nothing gets better without a franchise QB

1.  They built the living sh*t out of that defensive line, yet the D keeps getting worse and worse.

2.  This team has not had a franchise QB in forever and I would argue that it has almost always been better.

[Freemanm]

On 9/18/2017 at 2:48 PM, #27TheDominator said:

1.  They built the living sh*t out of that defensive line, yet the D keeps getting worse and worse.

2.  This team has not had a franchise QB in forever and I would argue that it has almost always been better.

Like I said, the Jets became a powerhouse in '09 and '10 because they drafted Brick and Mangold and created the best offensive line in football at the time. Had we had a decent QB instead of Suckchez, we could be bragging about having two Superbowls as we speak. 

[sciond]

6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

1.  They built the living sh*t out of that defensive line, yet the D keeps getting worse and worse.

2.  This team has not had a franchise QB in forever and I would argue that it has almost always been better.

1) Most of the best talent from their is gone..except Leo

2) Without a O'line and a decent coach even if they get one he may not develop.

[Freemanm]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:48 PM, RSJ said:

It's pretty funny that the coach Woody was the quickest to fire during his 20 years of owning the team (Mangini), may have built the best team Woody will ever see. Says a lot about what a moron he is.

Unfortunately, he'd never come back even if the Jets offered him the HC job again, because Woody basically turned on him after the Brett Favre season (Woody expected a Superbowl run that year after spending all that money on old man Favre)