Kleckineau Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, nyjunc said: and he had a much better career than Eli which included a league MVP. Stabler was also voted QB of the decade for the 70's He might have had 3-4 rings if it wasnt for the Steelers Agree better than Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said: Don't think Eli had any gambling links to the DeCavalcantes, did he? No, he was just selling bogus memorabilia to make some extra money in addition to his millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, southparkcpa said: Senor.... see southtowns response. He echo's what I believe. I was just addressing comparing his stats to QBs from different eras without accounting for the passing and scoring environment of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, SenorGato said: I was just addressing comparing his stats to QBs from different eras without accounting for the passing and scoring environment of the day. people keep talking about #s of past QBs compared to Eli's compiled #s as if they mean something. you cannot compare #s of a QB in this pass happy, rules favor the O era against #s of players from the 60s/70/80s and even 90s. it's a very different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 38 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Joe based on his playing career does not belong, Joe is in the Hall for what he meant to the growth of pro football. He was nowhere near the best player or best QB but he is the most important player to ever play pro football and that is why he is in and on the #s we cannot compare a QB in this era to a QB from that era. we can compare them against their peers: all pro: Joe 1x(this doesn't count AFL APs) Eli ZERO, not even a 2nd team top 5 pass yds: Joe: 6(led 3 times) Eli: 2(highest finish was 5th) top 5 pass TDs: Joe:7(led once) Eli: 2(highest was 4th) rating: Joe: 4(highest 3rd) eli: ZERO INTs is where they are comparable: Eli led 3 times Joe led 4 times both won SBs b/c of their defenses, Eli just happened to win 2 of them. Plunkett is the only one and Eli's career is very similar. Both struggled early then became solid starters but never top end starters. Neither belongs in the Hall. You would be funny if you weren't so relentless. This does not count his prime. When he was the best player in football. There literally was not a single game where he walked on the field healthy and was not considered the best player. Ask his opponents and the guys he played with. Not the press and the ******* stat sheet. There is a bias AGAINST the AFL. That is why Lamonica and anybody associated with the Raiders has/had a tough time getting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: You would be funny if you weren't so relentless. This does not count his prime. When he was the best player in football. There literally was not a single game where he walked on the field healthy and was not considered the best player. Ask his opponents and the guys he played with. Not the press and the ******* stat sheet. There is a bias AGAINST the AFL. That is why Lamonica and anybody associated with the Raiders has/had a tough time getting in. Joe was great for a few years, Joe was damaged goods. that does count, he would not be in the Hall if it was based entirely on what he did on the field. it's our luck we had a player like that and he was damaged goods but he was, can't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Kleckineau said: There are multiple QBs in the HOF that did not win a championship ring. Are there any with 2 rings that didnt make it in? Steve Beurlein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said: Don't think Eli had any gambling links to the DeCavalcantes, did he? Isn't that the mob family The Sopranos is based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Philc1 said: Steve Beurlein Dont believe he actually played at all in the SB but I think he did start and win a handful of playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Philc1 said: Isn't that the mob family The Sopranos is based on? Yes Jersey crime family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Just now, Kleckineau said: Yes Jersey crime family I saw a documentary about it on youtube. The guy even owned a strip club in Queens and did alot of his work there just like Tony at the Bada Bing on the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 no ... and it's not closeSent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebuzzardman Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/20/2017 at 2:07 PM, nyjunc said: Joe based on his playing career does not belong, Joe is in the Hall for what he meant to the growth of pro football. He was nowhere near the best player or best QB but he is the most important player to ever play pro football and that is why he is in and on the #s we cannot compare a QB in this era to a QB from that era. we can compare them against their peers: all pro: Joe 1x(this doesn't count AFL APs) Eli ZERO, not even a 2nd team top 5 pass yds: Joe: 6(led 3 times) Eli: 2(highest finish was 5th) top 5 pass TDs: Joe:7(led once) Eli: 2(highest was 4th) rating: Joe: 4(highest 3rd) eli: ZERO INTs is where they are comparable: Eli led 3 times Joe led 4 times both won SBs b/c of their defenses, Eli just happened to win 2 of them. Plunkett is the only one and Eli's career is very similar. Both struggled early then became solid starters but never top end starters. Neither belongs in the Hall. So Joe is in the HOF because of hitting the clubs, banging chicks and being telegenic? I mean, those are good reasons, but Joe helping football because he was so personable is a reason for the HOF? I liked him and everything and he had some great years, but it of quality long enough? Or is sort of the Kofax argument? Don't think he was that dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/19/2017 at 4:16 PM, UntouchableCrew said: The guy is basically Joe Flacco in New York. He'll get in because of New York, his name, and the Super Bowls (specifically his role in SB 42) but I can't believe people are defending the idea that he actually belongs in the HoF. By that standard pretty much every QB to win a SB or go to a Pro Bowl in the last 20 years should be in. Is every quarterback in the last 20 years who have won a Super Bowl completed 60 percent of their passes, thrown over 300 TD's in their careers, have a QB career rating of over 80 , and will finish the top five in passing yards? Right, no would be the answer to that. People don't have to like that Eli is getting in, but he is getting in with those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 17 hours ago, thebuzzardman said: So Joe is in the HOF because of hitting the clubs, banging chicks and being telegenic? I mean, those are good reasons, but Joe helping football because he was so personable is a reason for the HOF? I liked him and everything and he had some great years, but it of quality long enough? Or is sort of the Kofax argument? Don't think he was that dominant. Joe was certainly not the football version of Koufax who was a dominant player. Joe had great years but if the Hall voting was strictly on play on the field he wouldn't be in but he meant so much to the growth of the game which is why he is in. 15 hours ago, CanadaSteve said: Is every quarterback in the last 20 years who have won a Super Bowl completed 60 percent of their passes, thrown over 300 TD's in their careers, have a QB career rating of over 80 , and will finish the top five in passing yards? Right, no would be the answer to that. People don't have to like that Eli is getting in, but he is getting in with those numbers. He has completed under 60% of his passes which is astounding in this era for a supposed HOF QB. it's awesome he has thrown over 300 TDs, he's also thrown over 200 INTs. He's been in the top 5 in pass TDs just TWO times, he's LED the NFL in INTs THREE times. a career rating over 80 is a big deal? among active passers he is behind Kirk Cousins, Matt Schaub, Andy Dalton, Carson Palmer, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford. if this doesn't scream Hall of Fame I don't know what does Eli is durable, b/c of that durability he has thrown a lot, b/c he has thrown a lot(w/ great top tier talent around him in weak division) he has put up very good compiled #s. he has maybe(MAYBE) 1 HOF caliber season, a real HOFer should have 5-7 HOF caliber seasons. he has never even made a 2nd team all pro, how can he be considered one of the best of the best all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Wild Card weekend, TWO QBs won games where their D's allowed more than 20 points- Marcus Mariota in his FIRST EVER playoff start and Drew Brees for the FIFTH time in his career. Eli has NEVER done this in 14 years as a starting QB. also, 2 QBs led their Os to more than 20 in playoff losses which is another thing Eli has never done. Alex Smith and Cam Newton both lost leading their Os to more than 20 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 add 2 more QBs to the list. Blake Bortles has now won a playoff game where his D allowed 42 points, Eli Manning has never won one where his D allowed more than 20. Case keenum won one where his D allowed 24 points, Eli has never won one where his D allowed more than 20. This was Bortles' 2nd career playoff start, kennum's 1st. Oh and in defeat Ben led Pitt to 42 points, that 42 points equals the TOTAL # of points Eli led his O's to in playoff losses. Brees led his O to 24, Eli has never led an O to more than 20 in a playoff loss. In this postseason alone 3 1st time playoff QBs have won playoff games where their D has allowed more than 20 yet in 14 seasons Eli couldn't do it once. But keep telling me Eli is a Hall of famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, nyjunc said: add 2 more QBs to the list. Blake Bortles has now won a playoff game where his D allowed 42 points, Eli Manning has never won one where his D allowed more than 20. Case keenum won one where his D allowed 24 points, Eli has never won one where his D allowed more than 20. This was Bortles' 2nd career playoff start, kennum's 1st. Oh and in defeat Ben led Pitt to 42 points, that 42 points equals the TOTAL # of points Eli led his O's to in playoff losses. Brees led his O to 24, Eli has never led an O to more than 20 in a playoff loss. In this postseason alone 3 1st time playoff QBs have won playoff games where their D has allowed more than 20 yet in 14 seasons Eli couldn't do it once. But keep telling me Eli is a Hall of famer. I mean, you’re the one bringing it back and keeping it alive. What has Eli done to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: I mean, you’re the one bringing it back and keeping it alive. What has Eli done to you? Eli is a very nice guy, I actually like him but he's not a HOF QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 after 4 seasons: Eli Manning: 987-1805, 55%, 11385 yds, 77 TDs, 64 INTs, 73.4 rating Blake Bortles: 1318-2229, 59.1%, 14928 yds, 90 TDs, 64 INts, 80.8 rating if you prorate Eli's attempts to Bortles: 14,059 yds(869 less than Bortles) 95 TDs(5 more than Bortles) 79 INts(15 more than TO machine Bortles) First 2 playoff games? Eli: 26-45, 58%, 274 yds, 2 TDs, 4 INts, 53.4 rating led O to 10 PPG, 0-2 record Bortles: 26-49, 53%, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 85.5 rating, led O to 24 PPG, 2-0 record Oh by the way, the 38 points Bortles led his O to yesterday was MORE than Eli ever led an O to in any of his playoff games throughout his 14 year career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Based on play No. Based on Rings Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Deserve or not, he will be in the HOF. The rest is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GATA Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 9/19/2017 at 11:17 AM, flgreen said: Up to me? He's a Ring of Honor type guy. HOF? I wouldn't vote for him. With that said, he'll probably go. Two rings, and he's a Manning I 2nd this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight89 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 He'll get in based on his rings, being a Giant, and the media loves him. He's not a HOF based on his play on the field. I also love how the media thinks that if Eli Manning gets cut in the off season he'd go right to Jacksonville and put them in a better position to win than Bortles has. I'm not a Blake Bortles fan, but i'd take Blake Bortles over Eli Manning on that team any day. Unless you are elite pocket passer when you get to a certain age and have no mobility, you're on borrowed time in this league IMO. Bortles ability to make plays outside the pocket with his feet and size make him more valuable to the Jags at this point in his career than Eli Manning would at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said: Based on play No. Based on Rings Yes. so do we put all the giants who won those 2 SBs in? Justin Tuck was far more important in those 2 games does he now go in? 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Deserve or not, he will be in the HOF. The rest is moot. That would be an insult to all real HOfers. they have let plenty of guys in who don't belong but Eli doesn't even belong in the discussion and hopefully after he retires people will look at his career realistically rather than just focus on the 2 SB wins where his D carried him. at no point in his career has he been considered one of the best QBs in the league yet he should be included w/ the best of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said: He'll get in based on his rings, being a Giant, and the media loves him. He's not a HOF based on his play on the field. I also love how the media thinks that if Eli Manning gets cut in the off season he'd go right to Jacksonville and put them in a better position to win than Bortles has. I'm not a Blake Bortles fan, but i'd take Blake Bortles over Eli Manning on that team any day. Unless you are elite pocket passer when you get to a certain age and have no mobility, you're on borrowed time in this league IMO. Bortles ability to make plays outside the pocket with his feet and size make him more valuable to the Jags at this point in his career than Eli Manning would at this point in his career. the same people bashing Bortles are the ones that bashed Eli early on. People forget how bad Eli was even in that 1st SB season. He played well in the playoffs but the D led the way just as they did 4 years later. Bortles is basically a young Eli w/ legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Warfish said: Deserve or not, he will be in the HOF. The rest is moot. The Cliff Notes answer. And 100% accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 if it happens it will be the biggest embarrassment in the history of any hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, nyjunc said: if it happens it will be the biggest embarrassment in the history of any hall of fame. Unless baseball writers start letting the steroid scum in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, nyjunc said: if it happens it will be the biggest embarrassment in the history of any hall of fame. Until Revis gets in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I personally don’t think he should be a HOFer. Two rings doesn’t automatically get you in. Ask Jim Plunkett. He’s a modern age QB who has led the league in turnovers on like 3 separate occasions during his career and consistently finishes in the Top 5 in turnovers among QB’s. His teams hardly ever make the playoffs either. He’ll still get in though. He’s one of Archie’s kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Well you know what Don Shula thinks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, nyjunc said: so do we put all the giants who won those 2 SBs in? Justin Tuck was far more important in those 2 games does he now go in? Fairly or not QB's of Super Bowl winning teams are viewed differently to his team mates. Unless they are deemed super stars like Michael Strahan. He Won two SB's on great D, an unbelievable catch, and an unbelievable drop. He's a very middling QB, unlike his brother. If Payton was a Giant and Eli a Colt he'd have zero rings, his brother would have more than two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 No more than Joe Namath. It is also the Hall of "Fame" which is why IMO Namath is actually in it. His guarantee was a huge point in NFL history, had the Jets not won that Super Bowl the NFL would have broken apart. Eli has twice as many rings but has done something no other QB in this era has been able to do, beat Tom Brady in a Super Bowl. The 18-1 Super Bowl victory was arguably as famous if not more so than Namath's guarantee. If Eli was a Jets QB we'd be clamoring for him to be in the Hall of Fame so I don't see why we'd keep him out when our QB made it in. No to mention his consecutive game streak in this sport is incredibly impressive. So yea I have no problem with Eli in the HoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I personally wouldn’t vote for him but he won 2 SBs and plays for the Giants. He’s in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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