OLine > Franchise QB

[nico002]

Look I'm all for drafting a QB with this top 3 pick we are likely getting, but after that all of our resources need to go into building a dominant OLine.

Look at Giants, Packers, colts, Saints, and Seahawks. All teams with franchise QBs and/or elite weapons that literally can't move the ball because their OLines are total garbage. 

The leauge has moved past the stage of 5000 yard passers and crazy offenses. Defenses are getting to QBs and OLine is once again the most premium unit. 

[Warfish]

O-line is vital.

A QB is more vital.

[Jetsfan80]

That's fine.  Draft a QB in the 1st.  Use the rest of your draft on O-Line.  

There's no rule that says you can't find O-Line throughout the draft.  However, there DOES tend to be a rule about where you find QB's.  

[LIJetsFan]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

O-line is vital.

A QB is more vital.

Disagree.  An elite OL (granted that is 5 guys and not 1) is at the very least equal to an elite QB:....see Andrew Luck.  

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

O-line is vital.

A QB is more vital.

Yes but not by much

[nico002]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fine.  Draft a QB in the 1st.  Use the rest of your draft on O-Line.  

There's no rule that says you can't find O-Line throughout the draft.  However, there DOES tend to be a rule about where you find QB's.  

My point is that we can't just get a QB and use the rest of the draft for skill players/defense. We have to invest in the OL. A huge junk of our cap should go into signing OL too. 

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

O-line is vital.

A QB is more vital.

This.  There have been multiple instances of great o-lines from the Jets, but they could only do so much to compensate for the QBs standing behind them.  They certainly did tend to have more relative success in those years, but the mediocre talent at the NFL's most premium position could not be overcome in the end (see: Sanchez, Pennington).

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fine.  Draft a QB in the 1st.  Use the rest of your draft on O-Line.  

There's no rule that says you can't find O-Line throughout the draft.  However, there DOES tend to be a rule about where you find QB's.  

For teams that draft with some level of remote competency. Unless Mac gets a no brainer pick like Leo I can't help but believe we get another out of the league in four years draft pick. So having Mack build an O line  with 2-7 round pick is basically expecting to win poerball after buying one ticket. 

[ASH1962]

The OP stole my thunder and is 100% right on. Take last nights game for example. The Giants have arguably one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL, an all time WR (who BTW I am so sick to death of looking at and hearing about), a decent rookie TE, and some decent complimentary WR's who I think are light years better than what we have, yet Manning got absolutely pounded and his team has actually scored less than we did in both games played, which is totally unbelievable to me. Would anyone have though the Jets would outscore the Giants through 2 weeks? LOL. 

The O Line makes the offense. Dallas is another example, Prescott is not that good but their OL is. Denver, Trevor Siemian? Come on he is not that good. Their OL makes him look good. Indy-no oline, and their franchise QB is all busted up. The O Line is the most important unit on a football team period.

I agree we need to draft a franchise QB with our top p[ick next year but we must draft a LT and a RT in round 2 if they are available now that we have 2 #2's.Then go and get some friggin speed to help on offense and ST's, and make sure they can catch a GD punt.

[Tony MaC]

I've wanted a franchise LT for so long. They're just as hard to get, if not more so, than QB's. 

I think the Jets will wind up taking one QB or another in round one (just and assumption, we talk but we cant no for certain before a full season of college football) but if they went with a clear as day top left tackle you wont hear one complaint out of me.

Hell, I think that might one of the only positions that warrants a first rounder more than QB does. How many late draft guys are out there watching a QB's blindside?

 

[jmat321]

What's the FA market looking like for OLs this coming spring?  We'll have some cash.  

[mtwarlock31]

1 minute ago, ASH1962 said:

The OP stole my thunder and is 100% right on. Take last nights game for example. The Giants have arguably one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL, an all time WR (who BTW I am so sick to death of looking at and hearing about), a decent rookie TE, and some decent complimentary WR's who I think are light years better than what we have, yet Manning got absolutely pounded and his team has actually scored less than we did in both games played, which is totally unbelievable to me. Would anyone have though the Jets would outscore the Giants through 2 weeks? LOL. 

On what planet are they arguing this?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

The OP stole my thunder and is 100% right on. Take last nights game for example. The Giants have arguably one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL,

Who the **** is making that argument?  They barely had a top 3 QB in that game. 

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

What's the FA market looking like for OLs this coming spring?  We'll have some cash.  

One of the worst FA classes in a long time.

[Ken Schroy]

19 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Look I'm all for drafting a QB with this top 3 pick we are likely getting, but after that all of our resources need to go into building a dominant OLine.

Look at Giants, Packers, colts, Saints, and Seahawks. All teams with franchise QBs and/or elite weapons that literally can't move the ball because their OLines are total garbage. 

The leauge has moved past the stage of 5000 yard passers and crazy offenses. Defenses are getting to QBs and OLine is once again the most premium unit. 

I want both, and considering our upcoming draft position and money to spend on FA's that should be doable. No more BS excuses.

[Jetster]

15 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Disagree.  An elite OL (granted that is 5 guys and not 1) is at the very least equal to an elite QB:....see Andrew Luck.  

And Dak Prescott. Dak Prescott would look like poo behind a sh*tty oline.

[rangerous]

a good qb will make an oline better and vice versa. imo qb's are overpaid at this point but they are the first guys to get the ball and have to make good decisions about who gets the ball next. but that's what separates football from the other sports. all of the players have to play as a team to be successful.

[dbatesman]

Good thread

[kelly]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

O-line is vital.

A QB is much, MUCH more vital.

FIXED ^ ^ 

 

[Tony MaC]

What does the center market look like next year? Because if the Jets aren't getting one of those, I don't think we're doing much as far as addressing the O-line there.

The Guard spots seem relatively set, Carpenter is going into his last year and he's been a picture of stability for the franchise. Winters is guaranteed through next year I believe, so there's very little chance a guard is signed to a big deal. And Brandon Shell is actually doing pretty well at right tackle, might be best allocate elsewhere. 

As for the Left, we're screwed. Good left tackles don't get let go by teams. When Mac signed Clady last year and Beachum this year he honestly got the best he could. You have to draft a LT, most likely in round one. 

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

One of the worst FA classes in a long time.

And there is a reason for that, teams know there is a lack of good olineman coming out & you have to train them like a QB now. Teams aren't letting any young oline talent walk. You'll see some high priced over 30 year olds now & then, but guys that are proving themselves? they are getting paid! Still cant believe Jerry Jones didn't trade 1 of his to the Jets for Richardson. Might have been the difference in lasts years playoff loss. Now, Jerry might be watching Richardson sacking Dak for the Seahawks in this years playoffs which would make me smile,lol. I love seeing Jerry Jones come down to earth.

[Warfish]

Please don't misunderstand, I LOVE drafting O-lineman.  No one loved the Mangold pick more than I do, and he remains (with Chrebet and Toon) in my trio of all-time favorite NY Jets.

But an Elite QB can win a title with an average O-line.

And elite O-line cannot win a title with just an average QB.  They need more, like an elite Defense and/or an elite RB to paid with it.  

Ideally, both issues need a ton of attention here in NY.  We have (today) no legit QB.  And our O-line is average to below average across the board.

The 2018 Draft should, I hope, address at least the QB spot and 1-2 O-lie spots if possible.

[Il Mostro]

28 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

What's the FA market looking like for OLs this coming spring?  We'll have some cash.  

Yep.  Sign FA's as place holders but still place a priority on drafting OL.  This does not preclude going for that franchise QB with the first round pick.  It's not an either/or situation.

[varjet]

The QB will be drafted first.

The cap space will go very fast.  They need to find a LT and C.

Keep Hack and Petty next year and have them start until the QB is ready, if ever.  I am ok if the new QB sits for a year while we build the OL.

[Brady's a catcher]

46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fine.  Draft a QB in the 1st.  Use the rest of your draft on O-Line.  

There's no rule that says you can't find O-Line throughout the draft.  However, there DOES tend to be a rule about where you find QB's.  

This is what I'm thinking. And sign a few OL with all of that cap space.

I think putting a good OL around a young QB is much more important that giving him weapons in terms of facilitating his development. You're not learning how to read defeense when you're running for your life and getting pounded all game.

[Pcola]

I used to think that 1st round OL were the safest position to draft.  But there have been a ton of OL that have busted in the first, even in the top part of the round.  And busting on this pick is just as busting on a QB.  So the risks are comparable while the rewards of hitting in a QB far outweigh hitting on an OL.

Look at the NYGs.  Their GM/HC refuses to acknowledge that Flowers is terrible and keep running him out there.

[ChuckkieB]

55 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Look I'm all for drafting a QB with this top 3 pick we are likely getting, but after that all of our resources need to go into building a dominant OLine.

Look at Giants, Packers, colts, Saints, and Seahawks. All teams with franchise QBs and/or elite weapons that literally can't move the ball because their OLines are total garbage. 

The leauge has moved past the stage of 5000 yard passers and crazy offenses. Defenses are getting to QBs and OLine is once again the most premium unit. 

The Jets are in a position to draft both.  It's not like Mac would completely ignore a position of need on offense to draft two safeties or anything.  Don't worry.  Mac's got this.

[bealeb319]

55 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Disagree.  An elite OL (granted that is 5 guys and not 1) is at the very least equal to an elite QB:....see Andrew Luck.  

OL is just as important as your QB however it is easier to fix your offensive line later in the draft or through free agency, A lot of the top offensive line prospects from the passed few years have been leaving their teams in free agency for one reason or another and there always seems to be a few decent Veterans floating around but it is not common to see a potential franchise QB walking out the door of an organization.

[BCJet]

 

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

The OP stole my thunder and is 100% right on. Take last nights game for example. The Giants have arguably one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL, an all time WR (who BTW I am so sick to death of looking at and hearing about), a decent rookie TE, and some decent complimentary WR's who I think are light years better than what we have, yet Manning got absolutely pounded and his team has actually scored less than we did in both games played, which is totally unbelievable to me. Would anyone have though the Jets would outscore the Giants through 2 weeks? LOL. 

The O Line makes the offense. Dallas is another example, Prescott is not that good but their OL is. Denver, Trevor Siemian? Come on he is not that good. Their OL makes him look good. Indy-no oline, and their franchise QB is all busted up. The O Line is the most important unit on a football team period.

I agree we need to draft a franchise QB with our top p[ick next year but we must draft a LT and a RT in round 2 if they are available now that we have 2 #2's.Then go and get some friggin speed to help on offense and ST's, and make sure they can catch a GD punt.

Why on earth would we draft a RT with one of our second round picks? I know this season has sucked so far, but to not acknowledge that Brandon Shell graded out well in week 1 and just held the 2016 Defensive Player of the Year in check all game, is really doing the kid a disservice.  

Shell has played very well the 5 games he has been in live action, and without question looks like our starting RT for the foreseeable future.

As for the LT and Center question, one of our second round picks could/should be used on michigan states center Brian Allen, the brother of jack allen.  Brian Allen is a very solid center, team captain, and has experience at guard.

Other then that, I cant see us making big changes on the Oline - personally I think the line as a whole would be a lot better if we didnt trot out matt forte and josh mccown in our backfield.

[JustInFudge]

Great QBs make average OL's look great. 

This stupid league is all about one position.  

[Obrien2Toon]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

The OP stole my thunder and is 100% right on. Take last nights game for example. The Giants have arguably one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL, an all time WR (who BTW I am so sick to death of looking at and hearing about), a decent rookie TE, and some decent complimentary WR's who I think are light years better than what we have, yet Manning got absolutely pounded and his team has actually scored less than we did in both games played, which is totally unbelievable to me. Would anyone have though the Jets would outscore the Giants through 2 weeks? LOL. 

The O Line makes the offense. Dallas is another example, Prescott is not that good but their OL is. Denver, Trevor Siemian? Come on he is not that good. Their OL makes him look good. Indy-no oline, and their franchise QB is all busted up. The O Line is the most important unit on a football team period.

I agree we need to draft a franchise QB with our top p[ick next year but we must draft a LT and a RT in round 2 if they are available now that we have 2 #2's.Then go and get some friggin speed to help on offense and ST's, and make sure they can catch a GD punt.

Top 3 QB??

I wouldn't put him in my top 15

[Obrien2Toon]

56 minutes ago, Tony MaC said:

What does the center market look like next year? Because if the Jets aren't getting one of those, I don't think we're doing much as far as addressing the O-line there.

The Guard spots seem relatively set, Carpenter is going into his last year and he's been a picture of stability for the franchise. Winters is guaranteed through next year I believe, so there's very little chance a guard is signed to a big deal. And Brandon Shell is actually doing pretty well at right tackle, might be best allocate elsewhere. 

As for the Left, we're screwed. Good left tackles don't get let go by teams. When Mac signed Clady last year and Beachum this year he honestly got the best he could. You have to draft a LT, most likely in round one. 

I agree our line is pretty much set.

Johnson has been fine, but could be upgraded I guess

[detectivekimble]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

My point is that we can't just get a QB and use the rest of the draft for skill players/defense. We have to invest in the OL. A huge junk of our cap should go into signing OL too. 

Correct.  The key to success in the NFL is pretty simple.  Find a good QB and keep him upright.  You WILL win games with that, even if your defense blows and your skilled offensive players are questionable.

[ASH1962]

8 minutes ago, BCJet said:

 

Why on earth would we draft a RT with one of our second round picks? I know this season has sucked so far, but to not acknowledge that Brandon Shell graded out well in week 1 and just held the 2016 Defensive Player of the Year in check all game, is really doing the kid a disservice.  

Shell has played very well the 5 games he has been in live action, and without question looks like our starting RT for the foreseeable future.

As for the LT and Center question, one of our second round picks could/should be used on michigan states center Brian Allen, the brother of jack allen.  Brian Allen is a very solid center, team captain, and has experience at guard.

Other then that, I cant see us making big changes on the Oline - personally I think the line as a whole would be a lot better if we didnt trot out matt forte and josh mccown in our backfield.

Ok when they dominate with the running game I will agree with you, until then, you just go right ahead and continue to put your eggs in the basket of a 7th round draft pick who is sometimes ok.

[BCJet]

1 minute ago, ASH1962 said:

Ok when they dominate with the running game I will agree with you, until then, you just go right ahead and continue to put your eggs in the basket of a 7th round draft pick who is sometimes ok.

You mean a 5th round pick, right?  And our lack of a running game has nothing to do with the fact that our current starting RB looks like he is running in sand and hasnt been effective in 2 years, must be brandon shell's fault.

Instead lets replace him, while using valuable draft capital that could be used to solidify another position.   Players like Shell are how good teams are built - mid round picks, on low salaries that out perform their draft position.