Query; why are NFL ratings/attendance etc declining?

[Butterfield]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think the northeast is a poor way to extrapolate tbh(if the election taught us anything). Football is still booming in the south. College footballs ratings continue to rise. It's all people care about down here besides their families.

I can only speak from experience, and football is basically dead around those areas.  Its still a fairly significant area, considering 20% of the population lives in the northeast. I know its still big in certain areas, but even in Pittsburgh, no one was interested in football other than the steelers, which was very surprising.  It used to be huge in upstate ny, now its an afterthought.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Butterfield said:

I can only speak from experience, and football is basically dead around those areas.  I know its still big in certain areas, but even in Pittsburgh, no one was interested in football other than the steelers, which was very surprising.

Point being footballs never needed the northeast to survive. I think Art Monks the last guy from upstate NY to make the league.

[Butterfield]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Point being footballs never needed the northeast to survive. I think Art Monks the last guy from upstate NY to make the league.

Are you kidding?  There have been a number of players from Upstate NY from over the years.  I played against some of them.  I would say that the nfl needs the northeast quite a bit.  1/4 of the league exists there.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Butterfield said:

Are you kidding?  There have been a number of players from Upstate NY from over the years.  I played against some of them.  I would say that the nfl needs the northeast quite a bit.  1/4 of the league exists there.

1/4? Wut 

[Butterfield]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

1/4? Wut 

Take a look at what is considered the northeast united states.  You have 10 teams that play in that area.

[Matt39]

Just now, Butterfield said:

Take a look at what is considered the northeast united states.  You have 10 teams that play in that area.

Upstate NY. The Northeast besides Pennsylvania has never produced NFL talent, nor is it relevant to the future of football. Chappaqau wasn't exactly a NFL hotbed in the 70's.

[Butterfield]

8 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Upstate NY. The Northeast besides Pennsylvania has never produced NFL talent, nor is it relevant to the future of football. Chappaqau wasn't exactly a NFL hotbed in the 70's.

No one said it was a hotbed of talent.  I am saying, that the sport is dying in those areas.   If you don't think that is significant, good for you.  Since 1/4 of the league exists in the "northeast" I would think the league does too.

 It is happening in lots of areas across the country.  Plenty of stories about teams needing to merge or start thinging about 8 man football to keep the teams going.  Pennsylvania?  Its dying there. Ohio is having the same issues.  We used to travel to see them play in PA and OH.  Used to be die hard football in those towns.  I see stories about it all the time.  Maybe not in the hotbeds of the sport, it will obviously stay more popular, for longer, in those areas.  In more casual areas, the sport just isnt doing as well as it used to.

Lol.  By the way, Chappaqua isn't Upstate NY.  Oh boy, haha.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Butterfield said:

No one said it was a hotbed of talent.  I am saying, that the sport is dying in those areas.   If you don't think that is significant, good for you.  Since 1/4 of the league It is happening in lots of areas across the country.  Plenty of stories about teams needing to merge or start thinging about 8 man football to keep the teams going.  Ohio is having the same issues.  We used to travel to see them.  Used to be die hard football in those towns.  I see stories about it all the time.  Maybe not in the hotbeds of the sport, it will obviously stay more popular, for longer, in those areas.  In more casual areas, the sport just isnt doing as well as it used to.

Lol.  By the way, Chappaqua isn't Upstate NY.  Oh boy, haha.

New York doesn't even produce basketball players anymore. The northeast currently produces sh*tty athletes and it's just getting worse due to the demographics. 

Ohio State still seems fairly popular to me.

 

[Butterfield]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

New York doesn't even produce basketball players anymore. The northeast currently produces sh*tty athletes and it's just getting worse due to the demographics. 

Ohio State still seems fairly popular to me.

 

Oh boy.  I am not saying the talent is drying up.  I am saying that people are paying less attention to the sport than they used to.  The fandom just isnt as rabid as it used to be, and that is anywhere I have lived.

ohio state?  Sure, hotbed of the sport.  Rural Ohio?  Not really?  Cleveland?  Nope.

Kids arent playing, and people aren't paying as close attention, from the top to the bottom of the sport.

[Matt39]

Just now, Butterfield said:

Oh boy.  I am not saying the talent is drying up.  I am saying that people are paying less attention to the sport than they used to.  The fandom just isnt as rabid as it used to be, and that is anywhere I have lived.

ohio state?  Sure, hotbed of the sport.  Rural Ohio?  Not really?  Cleveland?  Nope.

I don't disagree. However the need for the northeast or Cleveland for football to survive isn't true. The buzz surrounding football in Florida is still nuts. That's where half the leagues from anyways.

[joewilly12]

Youth football programs lacking numbers it starts early with parents raising pussy's. 

Teach kids to tackle with their shoulder and bodies and not their helmets early on. 

[Butterfield]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I don't disagree. However the need for the northeast or Cleveland for football to survive isn't true. The buzz surrounding football in Florida is still nuts. That's where half the leagues from anyways.

Again, I wasnt referring to the talent.  I was just referring to the level of attention to the sport.  If 10 teams are in the area, and in those areas people are paying less attention, that is an issue.

Although, I do think more and more of the talent is looking towards other sports.  

Football is also getting more expensive, especially in regards to insurance, and more and more schools are starting to wonder if its worth it anymore.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Again, I wasnt referring to the talent.  I was just referring to the level of attention to the sport.  If 10 teams are in the area, and in those areas people are paying less attention, that is an issue.

Although, I do think more and more of the talent is looking towards other sports.  

Football is also getting more expensive, especially in regards to insurance, and more and more schools are starting to wonder if its worth it anymore.

College football ratings are going up though.

[Butterfield]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

College football ratings are going up though.

Are you sure about that?  I have seen that claim, I have also seen the claim that it has been stagnant, or decreased slightly.  The best articles I have read have said the big game numbers are up, but per game its down slightly and as a whole may have plateaued as well.

[southparkcpa]

6 hours ago, nycdan said:

Where do I start?

There has been an explosion in entertainment options vying for eyeballs in the last decade.  And between more families cutting the cord, and younger audiences watching more content on mobile devices now, TVs are becoming largely abandoned.  Football doesn't really show well on phones and tablets so I think that's a factor.  

On top of that, everything in video entertainment is moving towards short content and NFL games are, if anything, getting longer with more commercials.  So highlights on Twitter is probably how a growing number of people engage with the NFL game because you can bypass all of the boring stuff.

Another factor IMO, the quality of announcers is worse than ever.  I used to look forward to John Madden as part of the entertainment of MNF.  Now, I can't think of a single personality I could give a crap about.  The tech of broadcasting is cool (yellow line overlay for the first down, for example), but the games are still just harder to watch.

I think the hyper-coverage of the players is also not good.  Everyone loves a good backstory, but most of what is covered isn't of the good kind.  I think the constant barrage of suspensions, domestic violence and DUI arrests, and political protests takes a toll on the interest level of a lot of fans, particularly the more casual or newer fans who aren't as invested.  

And yes, like Kleck mentioned, competitive balance in the NFL is worse than any other league.  

So I'm not surprised at all by the ratings and attendance declining.  What will be fascinating is to see if the next TV deal actually goes down, not up, and how the NFLPA will react to that.  

ALL of THIS^^^^^  and

The politics.

The Kneeling turns me off

The way the players are treated as indentured servants

The way the fans are taken for granted.

Oh..and we suck for 45 years hasn't helped.

 

[southparkcpa]

16 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Youth football programs lacking numbers it starts early with parents raising pussy's. 

Teach kids to tackle with their shoulder and bodies and not their helmets early on. 

I dont blame these parents one bit.  I have 2 daughters so it never affected me BUT.. my GFs son plays and he has several friends who no longer play.

We talked about it.  1/10th of 1 percent of kids under 16 will play college football.  

The parents are concerned about the kids education, they tutor the kids, the kids play baseball, soccer etc.

Id take them over the fat drunk parents in the stands screaming... "Hit em", " Get back in there" etc but never read with their kids.

 

[win4ever]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I dont blame these parents one bit.  I have 2 daughters so it never affected me BUT.. my GFs son plays and he has several friends who no longer play.

We talked about it.  1/10th of 1 percent of kids under 16 will play college football.  

The parents are concerned about the kids education, they tutor the kids, the kids play baseball, soccer etc.

Id take them over the fat drunk parents in the stands screaming... "Hit em", " Get back in there" etc but never read with their kids.

 

I agree about limiting the kids to exposure with these hits, especially in developing brains.  

I was watching an interview with Alex Smith, and how he said there was no way his kids are going to play until at least high school because he felt it was safer, and they had nothing to gain by playing earlier.  I think soccer is going to get a major uptick because a TON of kids that are exposed to soccer early in life now, and that tends to create fandom because of familiarity with concepts.  Also, the international craze about the sport is going to start feeding in, because high end corporations are going to be behind assimilating it into the culture.  

The big issue with football is just how good of an athlete these kids are these days with better nutritional information, and weight training, that the kids are exposed to a high level of violence even from a younger age.  

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, win4ever said:

I agree about limiting the kids to exposure with these hits, especially in developing brains.  

I was watching an interview with Alex Smith, and how he said there was no way his kids are going to play until at least high school because he felt it was safer, and they had nothing to gain by playing earlier.  I think soccer is going to get a major uptick because a TON of kids that are exposed to soccer early in life now, and that tends to create fandom because of familiarity with concepts.  Also, the international craze about the sport is going to start feeding in, because high end corporations are going to be behind assimilating it into the culture.  

The big issue with football is just how good of an athlete these kids are these days with better nutritional information, and weight training, that the kids are exposed to a high level of violence even from a younger age.  

I feel like we've been saying this about soccer since 94. Is just not happening...

[Augustiniak]

I think interest is fine, you have the nfl draft in prime time and it does well.  The issue is that the demographics are changing, and younger people have different viewing habits.  As people watch more and more stuff on mobile devices they're not going to want to watch as much live sports, it's not fun watching on small screens.  More than anything it's a testament to how technology continues to change media consuming habits.

[flgreen]

3 hours ago, Butterfield said:

Nothing lasts forever.  

The problem isn't much to do with the NFL, its just a lack of interest in football altogether.    20 years ago, each small town where I grew up had a football team of 40 or 50 guys and the crowds were pretty bi g.  40 years ago, there were teams of 80, with varsity, jv, junior high and midget league teams and the whole town turned out for every game.  Now?  None of the towns have enough turnout to have their own teams.  2 or 3 or even 4 high schools have to join together to put a team together (one team, sometimes only jv or varsity), and no one shows up to games.  

In general, it seems like there is less interest in sports amongst the younger generations.  Football is no exception.

Not so sure about that.  Maybe in the NY met area, but in Florida Midget football is everywhere.  HS games draw 1,000's.   

[Butterfield]

Just now, flgreen said:

Not so sure about that.  Maybe in the NY met area, but in Florida Midget football is everywhere.  HS games draw 1,000's.   

Like I said, not in the hotbeds of the sport yet, but it always lasts longer in those areas.  

[win4ever]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I feel like we've been saying this about soccer since 94. Is just not happening...

I think it will, because I think it's a long play.   Too many factors going into it:

1.  The demise of youth football, too many injuries that parents are going to prevent kids from joining early (it may not be all parents, but a decent amount to affect quality)

2.  Kids exposure to soccer at a young age.  Personally, I know more kids playing soccer than football as kids.  This is big because, once you understand the complexity of the game, much easier to follow along and notice the intricacies.  

3.  Internet and international exposure.  The big stars over-sees didn't have as much exposure in years past, but it's starting to come through more and more, although nowhere near main stream yet.  Once people know ok, match up between X and Y is important, it'll seep in.

4.  International betting- anything you put money on becomes much more interesting (eg, horses running around a field)

5.  Money, the international money pool is ridiculous.  Top end players get more money than top end players in basketball, etc

6.  Roundabout reason, but feminism.  It's one of the few sports men and women play without drastic changes in rules.  This means there are more women who are exposed to the sport as young, and are likely to retain that interest growing up.  

It'll take time because right now, NFL is king, much like how baseball was king for a long time.  Soon enough, I think Soccer is going to take over NHL and creep up.  I'm talking decades, not say next year though.  

[flgreen]

7 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I think it will, because I think it's a long play.   Too many factors going into it:

1.  The demise of youth football, too many injuries that parents are going to prevent kids from joining early (it may not be all parents, but a decent amount to affect quality)

2.  Kids exposure to soccer at a young age.  Personally, I know more kids playing soccer than football as kids.  This is big because, once you understand the complexity of the game, much easier to follow along and notice the intricacies.  

3.  Internet and international exposure.  The big stars over-sees didn't have as much exposure in years past, but it's starting to come through more and more, although nowhere near main stream yet.  Once people know ok, match up between X and Y is important, it'll seep in.

4.  International betting- anything you put money on becomes much more interesting (eg, horses running around a field)

5.  Money, the international money pool is ridiculous.  Top end players get more money than top end players in basketball, etc

6.  Roundabout reason, but feminism.  It's one of the few sports men and women play without drastic changes in rules.  This means there are more women who are exposed to the sport as young, and are likely to retain that interest growing up.  

It'll take time because right now, NFL is king, much like how baseball was king for a long time.  Soon enough, I think Soccer is going to take over NHL and creep up.  I'm talking decades, not say next year though.  

Because of "heading"  soccer has a dramatic amount of concussions

[sourceworx]

20 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I feel like we've been saying this about soccer since 94. Is just not happening...

You're right. They have been saying it for a long time. But it is happening. It isn't huge yet, but the sport has been steadily growing in popularity. And as another poster said, more and more kids are playing soccer from a young age, so the fan base will continue to grow. 

[Integrity28]

If you're going to push your kid into sports, at least push them towards hoops or baseball... where the contracts are bigger and better. NFL players get screwed.

Anyway... fantasy football directly correlated with the surge in NFL popularity. Now, with adoption of FFB so high, and team loyalty so low - many people "watch" a game via fantasy apps delivering scores/updates. Giving them their Sunday back. To me this is the biggest direct reason: NFL media is delivered on platforms other than the TV now. So ratings dip.

Rules re: salary cap were meant to create parity. Rules re: goodell era were meant to favor QB, which eliminates the parity of the salary cap. Hopeless causes are definitely a reason people watch less.

Politics and pussification as the reason is a case of confirmation bias, imo.

The Patriots. Cheaters winning Has 100% effected how families share the NFL over the past decade +

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're right. They have been saying it for a long time. But it is happening. It isn't huge yet, but the sport has been steadily growing in popularity. And as another poster said, more and more kids are playing soccer from a young age, so the fan base will continue to grow. 

Unless a premier team comes to the US it will never happen.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

The generation that accounted for the biggest boost in popularity and ratings is growing up and starting families.  Priorities change.

Fantasy football has turned the casual fan into a fan of individual players, not a fan of a specific team. Why dedicate yourself to a team and sit through 3 hours of commercial filled games when you can watch the Redzone channel or check your smart phone for a quick update on your fantasy league scores? It's too easy to turn a game off and get the information you really care about through alternative means.

Agree with this, and also, this will sound ridiculous, but... Global Warming.

Football has always been a brisk fall day sport for me.  Tomorrow's going to be almost 90 degrees.  I'm not gonna sit on the couch pumping AC when I can go to Central Park with my daughter.  When most Sundays are nice until at least November, there's just other things to do besides sit in front of a television for 4 hours in the middle of the day.

[Hitman Harris]

They allowed cheating and game rigging for (mainly) one very special team. 

They let those cheaters change the rules so they could succeed. 

It ruined the game completely. Now the game is dead. 

The refs play more of a role in the outcome than the actual teams. ESPECIALLY with the cheaters "games" 

They push this FRAUD of a breast cancer campaign which goes straight into Susan Komen's personal bank accounts. 

Now they want to push political propaganda. 

They destroyed themselves. Good riddance. I hope it all fails spectacularly. 

[The Crimson King]

The only sport that will thrive in the future is whatever professional video game league that will develop over the next generation

 

[Ken Schroy]

9 hours ago, Paradis said:

I follow the players closer than the sport (to a fault), and wondering if someone(s) feels up to summarizing in a cohesive manner if possible manner - why there's a been general decline in business. Something more than - Roger's a buttface would be nice, but i'll take what I can get. 

Has the NFL product changed that much in the last 10 years?  Is there something tangible causing this residual erosion? 

What's the fix?  

 

  

For me the biggest reason is too many national night games. I would watch every game that was televised years ago. But look at some of these matchups on Thursday nights for example. Also, too many below average teams. They have diluted the product in my opinion.

[Ken Schroy]

4 hours ago, jetsons said:

kneeling during the National Anthem... bunch of clowns  

It's not helping that's for sure.

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, RoadFan said:

All of the above are correct.

Seems like there are only enough good players for about 20 teams.

People are growing tired of 3 1/2 hour sporting events.

Everything else in life has sped up. And yet sports has slowed down to a crawl, mostly  for ads. And those ads are not nearly as impactful nor effective in a 500+ channel/internet/cell phone age. If they were smart, they would adopt the in game  edge of screen ads EPL and World Cup soccer use. 

[Hitman Harris]

And those f u c king JOKE of a halftime shows. They are bending to the will of morons. And guess what, the morons hate and want to destroy them. 

And they are succeeding. Now they have this CTE nonsense as even more make believe ammo 

[Rangers9]

The reason Roger's popular and the owners pay him over 40 mil per year is because under him revenues have gone way up. But nobody is going to be able to deal with CTEs. And the American public isn't going to spend billions on flag football. I think many people esp younger people who haven't been watching the NFL for many years are finding different interests. And some are being turned off by the sport and tired of the controversy. The behavior on and the field by players. Don't you think a guy like Aaron Hernandez turned off a lot of potential fans. The Kap situation, Ray Rice, terrible stories esp in college of rape and sexual abuse.  Labor problems like an imminent strike. This all takes it's toll. Being a football fan could some day soon be a thing of the past. If I was an owner I'd sell. 

[Raideraholic]

11 hours ago, Paradis said:

I follow the players closer than the sport (to a fault), and wondering if someone(s) feels up to summarizing in a cohesive manner if possible manner - why there's a been general decline in business. Something more than - Roger's a buttface would be nice, but i'll take what I can get. 

Has the NFL product changed that much in the last 10 years?  Is there something tangible causing this residual erosion? 

What's the fix?  

 

  

The NFL player not standing for the flag.   You think it was coincidence that after Colin Crapernick pulled his little stunt that NFL ratings dropped, and MLB baseball ratings went up.( until yesterday no MLB player kneeled  for the national anthem)

The NFL employs 75 percent of their players are African Americans.     A lot of those guys wouldn't be millionaires without the fan support.   The players have a right to disrespect the flag and this country.  It's the fans right to show their voice / disgust by turning off the game 

See ESPN destroy their network and product by going against their best interest, Majority of sports fans just want to watch sports , and not be hammered with everything politics.    Hopefully sports owners wake up before they destroy their product like ESPN  did.( I know a lot of people who won't watch a team who has a player that kneels for the National anthem.

Fans stop watching and let's see how much your pay decreases.