Query; why are NFL ratings/attendance etc declining?

[jeremy2020]

viewing habits have changed. People don't watch shows at "8pm on a certain night" anymore either.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

Alcohol problems at MetLife starts with them allowing the blatantly drunk fan in the game and then continually feeding them drinks during the game. 

The security/ushers are the worst in the NFL I've been to other stadiums. 

Yesterday there was a fight in the LL EZ from the looks of things it took forever for the security/ushers to get to it. 

Most people drink responsibly. 

Im still angry at the fans who leave empty beer bottles in the parking lot there is no reason for this whatsoever. 

[adb280z]

On 9/23/2017 at 7:01 PM, joewilly12 said:

Youth football programs lacking numbers it starts early with parents raising pussy's. 

Teach kids to tackle with their shoulder and bodies and not their helmets early on. 

The players of the 60s and 70s were taught to tackle with their shoulder and body and they're the ones turning up with CTE.  

[Paddywagon]

As with a lot of things, there's a simple answer and there's more detailed, convoluted answer. The simple answer is that the NFL fanbase is mostly male and there's only 2 things that really sell to a fanbase that is mostly male: sex and sports. Too often the NFL has deviated from this formula which leads to reduced interest. The NFL tries to make the product like a reality show and they're always telling you how great the athletes are between breaks.

 

The truth is I'm a grown man who likes grown man things. I'm not some slapdick guy. If someone doesn't like that, I apologize to them but it is what it is. I have no interest in watching the Kardashians drama or worshiping a bunch of men who play games for a living no matter how great you tell me they are. I just don't. If you decide to make that the focus of your product, there's a good chance I might change the channel. Some people might interpret that in a nasty way but I'm not trying to hurt people's feelings. It's just the reality of the situation.

[flgreen]

On 9/25/2017 at 12:09 PM, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

You make some good points, but I doubt alcohol sales will ever be banned.  Selling  $1 worth of beer for $12 is just to tempting.  

What might be gone in the near future, and probably should, is tail gates parties with alcohol.  Brings nothing to the average fan, and costs the team money.  That' where most violent drunks will slam down a 12 pack of Colt 45, go in the stadium, and vomit on the person in front of them.

[nyjunc]

it will take a major catastrophe involving alcohol for the league to ban it.  They can sell $10 beer that costs a couple of cents.  a person was killed by a drunk driver leaving a Giant game a few years back and that didn't change anything.  the only thing that ever changed was cutting off sales before the end of the game after our embarrassment on Mon Night in 1988 vs. the Bills. 

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

I have a story that might be relevant.

 

ive been in the same fantasy football league with the same group of guyssince 1999.  I used to change my lineups in my college library’s computer room since it was the only place that had high speed internet lol.  It goes back that far.  The Commish of this league (who is one of my best friends) decided this year that he wasn’t going to do the league.  I asked him why and he said, “I just don’t have the love for the game anymore.”   Now this kid was one of the hugest sports fans I know....used to have season tix to nets, would only get direct tv because he needed to have the nfl package, listened to wfan all day long ect.  It blew my mind that he just decided one day that he didn’t like football.  He still will be doing his nba fantasy league so I know he didn’t give up on all sports, just football.  So I was watching red zone on Sunday and just gave him a ring to shoot the sh*t while I watched football.  As I’m talking to him I ask him if he is watching the jets game? He says to me, “nah, just hanging with my daughter at my house.....if anything I’ll put on red zone at 330 and see if there are any good endings of games I can watch.” This blew my mind, we used to sit on the couch from noon until midnight watching games together and he was maybe going to watch red zone for a few minutes at 330? What gives I asked? He told me that football is such an all day commitment and now that he has a wife and kids he just can’t justify wasting his  only true day off sitting in front of a tv anymore.  Could it be as simple as the rabid nfl fan who used to spend the entire day in front of the tv just grew up and doesn’t have the desire to sit on a couch all day? Plus there were a ton of 18 year olds who got into football 20 years ago solely because they were in  fantasy league...they had no love for the game, only the “action” their league provided them.  Peoples interests change as time goes on....remember when baseball was truly America’s pastime? Now most people only watch during the playoffs...no one Ever would’ve predicted that in the 50’s and 60’s.  I just think the young nfl viewers that elevated the league 20 years ago got old and decided they had other interests.....and the nfl isn’t replacing them with today’s 18 year olds because they don’t have the attention span to sit on a couch every Sunday from noon to midnight.  

[peekskill68]

Injecting politics into the game is only going to add to the pressure on ratings and attendance.  It naturally alienates a portion of your fan base who either 1) disagrees with the politics you are promoting or 2) look for sports to be an escape from politics.  You're not going to gain fans who come to the league because they like the politics...

[rangerous]

imo a couple of things.  first the whole concussion thing is becoming the nightmare the nfl should have thought it would be.  the snowflakes just won't watch because of things like concussions. the second thing is sooooo many players are complete social miscreants.  look at how roethlisberger avoided punishment for all of those alleged charges of sexual coercion.  and the same goes for the delayed reaction to ray rice and peterson and a whole host of really bad behavior.  the third thing is the games cost so much to attend. people have $500 to drop on a pair of tickets plus whatever the parking costs plus the ridiculous food at the stadium?  i know that teams probably don't need the gate to make team costs but that shouldn't mean they jack up ticket prices. fourth, the referees are poor. they have no clue about which penalties to call and frequently call game stalling ones, just because.  on sunday johnson was called for holding on powell's long run.  huh?  that wasn't holding.  fifth, they have decidedly created home field advantage for certain teams.  no way the jets or anyone else win a penalty war in foxboro.  it just doesn't happen. sixth, the qb's get away with way too much.  intentional grounding isn't called the way it used to be and neither is in the grasp.  in the bills game a jets player had tyrod's ankles in his hands yet tyrod threw a pass that was completed.  that should've been in the grasp especially if the goal is to prevent the qb's from being injured.  maybe the rule needs to be "if the qb is unable to gain yards by running then the play should be blow dead".

and i'm not going to touch much on the whole national anthem thing.  but every little bit helps.  nfl wants to increase ratings?  then start by getting rid of the knuckleheads and showing respect for the people who watch the games and pay for the product.

[Savage69]

On 9/23/2017 at 1:17 PM, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Well said. Concussions should be added, which were a factor in ruining boxing. I would add that the reality TV political climate has put most sports in the shade. Watching a football game seems somehow rather routine and passe these days. And more than ever the NFL seems primarily a highly corporate business -- the joy of sports has somehow dissipated over the last few years.

I remember years ago when went went to a relatives house for thanksgiving.. There were 2 simple rules no political or religious discussions just eat drink and enjoy the games.. I wish that was still the case..

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I remember years ago when went went to a relatives house for thanksgiving.. There were 2 simple rules no political or religious discussions just eat drink and enjoy the games.. I wish that was still the case..

We have a similar rule  like that at my house for every damn day of the year. 

[batman10023]

On 9/25/2017 at 12:01 PM, bostonmajet said:

I have to say there is some truth to what you say, but there are some downsides that I don't think you are considering.

1. Tickets are more available now; this is especially true for visiting fans who hold that particular game at a higher value then a typical Jets fan that can pick from the other 7.

2. One of the best parts about season ticket holders is that they always sit together; there is a sense of camaraderie that is lost when you hop around. It may not be a big deal, but it does take a away something from the game day experience.

3. The lack of consistent quality 'blue collar' fans provided a community and safe zone for the casual or family fan. Now the jack@$$, who isn't likely bought this more available ticket isn't as concerned with the norms of the section (as there aren't any) and without the thought of loosing his season tickets (as he likely doesn't have any) is more likely to act up. Since I tend to go to games as a visitor, I can tell you that the experience and safety that used to be associated with the stadium is gone. Not only do I worry about going to other stadiums wearing a Jets jersey, I wouldn't even think of bringing my daughter (who would wear a Pats jersey - I know - sad) to a game. Too much violence, and swearing. I used to go the games every year - often sitting around cops, construction guys, etc. - nobody got too far out of hand - the crowd set the stage.

4. Since tickets are more available, the casual fan is more likely to get them; I can't tell you how annoying it is to sit next to a fan that is screaming about a bad call, etc and that clearly doesn't know the rules of football. Go to a game a Gillette, they are so used to getting their way, anytime something happens they are either screaming for a flag or complaining about getting one. 10 years ago, the fans knew the game inside and out. The hated outside fans, but respected the game, another fans knowledge, and while they would give you 'crap'; you were always safe and they were even friendly....

The games are much safer now for fans.  Don't you remember stairwell d.  It was a zoo 15 years ago.  

[southparkcpa]

On 9/25/2017 at 1:26 PM, jeremy2020 said:

viewing habits have changed. People don't watch shows at "8pm on a certain night" anymore either.

I miss the Brady bunch.....

[Jet9]

I agree with most of the points here. However, some of you guys basically calling the concussion issue an issue for wusses is absurd. These guys are mostly in their 20s and early 30s. They're somebody's kids, they're also somebody's dad. Even if they make a billion dollars a year, safety and long-term health are important. More important than a game. 

[Super Bowl before I die]

On 9/23/2017 at 6:12 PM, jetsons said:

kneeling during the National Anthem... bunch of clowns  

Fans want football on Sundays ; not social issues , protests and all the other bullcrap .

[Super Bowl before I die]

On 9/25/2017 at 12:09 PM, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

You are right on the mark . Tailgating is the time for drinking . No alcohol should be sold in the stadium (of course , there will be alcohol in the clubs for the hoy-poloy) . This would lessen the chance of drunken lauts ruining the game for others . But , economically , the owners will never agree to it . $$$$$$$$$$ RULES . 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Super Bowl before I die said:

You are right on the mark . Tailgating is the time for drinking . No alcohol should be sold in the stadium (of course , there will be alcohol in the clubs for the hoy-poloy) . This would lessen the chance of drunken lauts ruining the game for others . But , economically , the owners will never agree to it . $$$$$$$$$$ RULES . 

Oh I know, but at the same time if the NFL owners really had a vision they would do what they could to attract children to watching the game, which means a more friendly stadium environment, cheaper concessions (like in Atlanta, Blank gets it) less expensive seating areas (offset by even higher end areas for wealthy and corporate) and more value added things. It is one thing for a parent to spend $500 to take her family to a football game, it is entirely another to spend $500 and expose her children to the environments and mob environment that exists today. But short term greed wins out.

[nj meadowlands]

4 hours ago, Super Bowl before I die said:

Fans want football on Sundays ; not social issues , protests and all the other bullcrap .

YERRR RIGHT ON BROTHER!

[Ex-Rex]

On 9/23/2017 at 12:32 PM, Paradis said:

I follow the players closer than the sport (to a fault), and wondering if someone(s) feels up to summarizing in a cohesive manner if possible manner - why there's a been general decline in business. Something more than - Roger's a buttface would be nice, but i'll take what I can get. 

Has the NFL product changed that much in the last 10 years?  Is there something tangible causing this residual erosion? 

What's the fix?  

 

  

Rule changes - which happen at an alarming rate - have people confused and officials making terrible calls on the field is another. I think basically that old school people are frustrated at Goodell's touch football league. I find myself saying all the time," are we playing football or what?" I know safety is a big issue, but it is a collision sport that is being changed into a love tap sport. I also think the politicalization of the protesting is having a negative effect. On my facebook page alone there were more than 1,000 responses to any post concerning the protesters and MOST were negative. It really is being looked at along racial lines, not political ones.

[56mehl56]

16 hours ago, batman10023 said:

The games are much safer now for fans.  Don't you remember stairwell d.  It was a zoo 15 years ago.  

I disagree. Today with the abundance of tickets available there are hordes of opposing fans roaming the parking lots  and stadium getting the false security of protection in numbers. In the past there were the individual groups of fans who acted like idiots but they were dealt with and kicked out . Now when you have groups of 30+ opposing fans it makes it much harder to control from a security perspective and they tend to turn a deaf ear unless a real situation ensues.

Also in the past those opposing fans paid a premium to go to the game so they though twice about getting kicked out . Today they could care less they get kicked out and watch the game from the parking lot on their phone.

[56mehl56]

9 hours ago, Jet9 said:

I agree with most of the points here. However, some of you guys basically calling the concussion issue an issue for wusses is absurd. These guys are mostly in their 20s and early 30s. They're somebody's kids, they're also somebody's dad. Even if they make a billion dollars a year, safety and long-term health are important. More important than a game. 

But its their choice . If someone offered you $5 million a year to do a dangerous job , sure you'd consider the risk factor but you'd also make more than an average worker makes in an entire lifetime.

[batman10023]

9 hours ago, Jet9 said:

I agree with most of the points here. However, some of you guys basically calling the concussion issue an issue for wusses is absurd. These guys are mostly in their 20s and early 30s. They're somebody's kids, they're also somebody's dad. Even if they make a billion dollars a year, safety and long-term health are important. More important than a game. 

i agree.   

i find most people think the NFL needs to do something about the concussion issue but the crowd that disagrees is vocal about football losing it's way.

[batman10023]

11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But its their choice . If someone offered you $5 million a year to do a dangerous job , sure you'd consider the risk factor but you'd also make more than an average worker makes in an entire lifetime.

that's not really how workplace safety rules work.  you should look into OSHA.

[batman10023]

17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I disagree. Today with the abundance of tickets available there are hordes of opposing fans roaming the parking lots  and stadium getting the false security of protection in numbers. In the past there were the individual groups of fans who acted like idiots but they were dealt with and kicked out . Now when you have groups of 30+ opposing fans it makes it much harder to control from a security perspective and they tend to turn a deaf ear unless a real situation ensues.

Also in the past those opposing fans paid a premium to go to the game so they though twice about getting kicked out . Today they could care less they get kicked out and watch the game from the parking lot on their phone.

i haven't felt this way at Met Life stadium.  i did feel it many times in Giants stadium.  my wife didn't feel safe going to the games all the time and thought there was way too much antics/drunken behavior.  now she has no problem going to the game and wouldn't mind me taking our kids to the game.

perhaps the difference is then i was second to last row in upper deck and now i am in the club section.  

[NYs Stepchild]

20 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

i haven't felt this way at Met Life stadium.  i did feel it many times in Giants stadium.  my wife didn't feel safe going to the games all the time and thought there was way too much antics/drunken behavior.  now she has no problem going to the game and wouldn't mind me taking our kids to the game.

perhaps the difference is then i was second to last row in upper deck and now i am in the club section.  

Your wife is okay with exposing your kids to SARI

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Your wife is okay with exposing your kids to SARI

That was an epidemic a few years back wasn't it

[batman10023]

Just now, NYs Stepchild said:

Your wife is okay with exposing your kids to SARI

SAR isn't in the Club section.  He's in the Mezz end zone i believe.  

[Lil Woody]

8 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

i agree.   

i find most people think the NFL needs to do something about the concussion issue but the crowd that disagrees is vocal about football losing it's way.

The vocal crowd knows there is nothing you can do.  People either need to accept the risks associated with playing the game or they need to stop watching it. 

Helmets are made for protecting the skull not the brain.  The brain being swished around is the result of the physics from collisions.  If you REALLY want to make the game safer, start with lowering the amount of force involved.  That means no HGH, or any other PEDs.  That means random testing of everyone.  That means spending a TON of money on testing and banning players who get caught immediately, not first you get a warning, then you get a counselro, then you get a ban for 1 game, then 4, then 8, then 16.... it means you test positive for PEDs, you lose a year. 

Then you can look at players launching/targeting etc. 

But the bottom line is that while you can take steps to reduce the impact of bodies slamming into each other, you can not stop the brain from getting smacked around inside the skull. Just like when you get in a car accident or if you slip on some ice, the brain is moving at the same rate as the head and then the head stops. 

Football is a violent game.  Accept the violence in it and move along.  Boxing and MMA isn't affected, yet some groups want to ban football entirely - make it "illegal" for schools to have programs for certain age groups, yet they are fine to leave in all of the other contact sports.  People need to just understand that it can be dangerous and be aware of how concussions affect brain chemistry across all sports. Boxing and MMA is by far the worst thing you can do for brain damage.  But dammit if I don't love watching McGregor or Triple G.  Where is the outrage there?  Why isn't the media crying foul on them?  IMO because football is the bigger sport on the highest pedestal and they only want to knock it down because that is what they live for....it is a great game that everyone loves and they can make a lot of noise by spreading fear and panic about the game.  Football leads to concussions, yes, but only marginally more so than lacrosse and soccer. Yet there is no outrage and movies being made about those sports and concussion hysteria surrounding them though?  There are no "Mothers don't let your children play lacrosse!" articles. Football has the target on its back because it's widely popular, it's macho/bro-dude approved, and it will get the most juice from the media when they insert themselves into the mix for the "public good" as determined by the tabloid owners. 

[NYs Stepchild]

Apparently the sport with the most risk of concussions is girls HS soccer. 

Maybe we need to ban sports...and driving. Helmets for everyone as they go directly where they need to go.

Then again maybe getting hurt, exposed to germs, and bad feelings all help build character and lead to a more fulfilling life. 

Just maybe life is meant to be lived, and taking risks is the way to get the most out of it. 

Any of you know what it's like to be in a stadium with 70,000 screaming fans? I'll bet you wouldn't want to miss that for the world. 

[batman10023]

7 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

The vocal crowd knows there is nothing you can do.  People either need to accept the risks associated with playing the game or they need to stop watching it. 

Helmets are made for protecting the skull not the brain.  The brain being swished around is the result of the physics from collisions.  If you REALLY want to make the game safer, start with lowering the amount of force involved.  That means no HGH, or any other PEDs.  That means random testing of everyone.  That means spending a TON of money on testing and banning players who get caught immediately, not first you get a warning, then you get a counselro, then you get a ban for 1 game, then 4, then 8, then 16.... it means you test positive for PEDs, you lose a year. 

Then you can look at players launching/targeting etc. 

But the bottom line is that while you can take steps to reduce the impact of bodies slamming into each other, you can not stop the brain from getting smacked around inside the skull. Just like when you get in a car accident or if you slip on some ice, the brain is moving at the same rate as the head and then the head stops. 

Football is a violent game.  Accept the violence in it and move along.  Boxing and MMA isn't affected, yet some groups want to ban football entirely - make it "illegal" for schools to have programs for certain age groups, yet they are fine to leave in all of the other contact sports.  People need to just understand that it can be dangerous and be aware of how concussions affect brain chemistry across all sports. Boxing and MMA is by far the worst thing you can do for brain damage.  But dammit if I don't love watching McGregor or Triple G.  Where is the outrage there?  Why isn't the media crying foul on them?  IMO because football is the bigger sport on the highest pedestal and they only want to knock it down because that is what they live for....it is a great game that everyone loves and they can make a lot of noise by spreading fear and panic about the game.  Football leads to concussions, yes, but only marginally more so than lacrosse and soccer. Yet there is no outrage and movies being made about those sports and concussion hysteria surrounding them though?  There are no "Mothers don't let your children play lacrosse!" articles. Football has the target on its back because it's widely popular, it's macho/bro-dude approved, and it will get the most juice from the media when they insert themselves into the mix for the "public good" as determined by the tabloid owners. 

the drug testing should be more aggressive i agree.  look i think the NFL is trying to make the game safer.  and i think they will continue to try to make it safer.  it's in the long term interest of the game.  of course you will lose a small portion of your fan base that misses the concussions etc but you keep the golden goose around for longer.

i'd love to see the data and stats behind lacrosse and soccer and football concussions.

[batman10023]

9 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Apparently the sport with the most risk of concussions is girls HS soccer. 

i'd love to see your data behind this statement.  from what i can see it's not but this is an old report i agree.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2014/09/03/youth-sports-concussions-football-soccer-lacrosse-basketball/15037213/

[NYs Stepchild]

1 minute ago, batman10023 said:

i'd love to see your data behind this statement.  from what i can see it's not but this is an old report i agree.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2014/09/03/youth-sports-concussions-football-soccer-lacrosse-basketball/15037213/

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/new-study-shows-that-girls-soccer-has-higher-per-capita-rate-of-concussions-than-any-other-sport

Odd that it's the same source.

[batman10023]

2 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/new-study-shows-that-girls-soccer-has-higher-per-capita-rate-of-concussions-than-any-other-sport

Odd that it's the same source.

you need to read the article and see the point they are making.

concussions are a large percentage of girl soccer injuries is the point i think they are trying to make.  it's not the point you were arguing.

[Jet9]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

But its their choice . If someone offered you $5 million a year to do a dangerous job , sure you'd consider the risk factor but you'd also make more than an average worker makes in an entire lifetime.

I would agree if a window washer or crab fisherman had issues well after retirement. 

[flgreen]

7 hours ago, Super Bowl before I die said:

You are right on the mark . Tailgating is the time for drinking . No alcohol should be sold in the stadium (of course , there will be alcohol in the clubs for the hoy-poloy) . This would lessen the chance of drunken lauts ruining the game for others . But , economically , the owners will never agree to it . $$$$$$$$$$ RULES . 

Why is tailgating the place to drink to reduce drunken violence?  That's where most of the drunken  A-Holes's do most of their drinking.