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Query; why are NFL ratings/attendance etc declining?

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2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I sat in MEZZ yesterday TD Club area mostly everyone I talked to was comped and few owned the PSL's to the seats as was the case in the seats I had corporate owned. 

Diehard Jets fans aren't in the seats, whoever will take them is. 

That's where I sit Section 237, I'm die hard bro.

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

That's where I sit Section 237, I'm die hard bro.

I was in 216 I wish I could afford those seats I'm a diehard and I would be there every game. 

Wife told me after the game if you want them make it work. (yes she's a keeper) 

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16 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Agree

IMO NFL is very close to it's peak in popularity for a # of reasons.  With the TV ratings falling, probably the next TV contracts from the networks will be reduced.  TV is the cash cow for the NFL not in stadium attendance.

From a business standpoint if I were an owner like Woody, and purchased the team for 650 M, and could now sell it for say 1.5 B  I would get out while the market is still high.  IMO the NFL is going to continue to decline.  Just speaking from my own stand point, out side the Jets, since all this political non-sense started I actually haven't watched any other NFL.  Not so long ago I watched every game that was televised.

Yes I'm only speaking for myself, but I think a lot of other fans feel the same way.  I just don't have the passion for the game in general I used to have.  JMO 

How much does that stem from the Jets just sucking really bad for the past few years with no hope of getting better anytime soon? Because that's how it works for me often enough. In the first two years with Sanchez and Rex, I'd be glued to the TV watching them and every game to see how it effects us because I knew we had a chance at something. But since they've sucked...what's the point? To watch them be down 21-3 by the half? When I could be doing more productive things with my day off. Fantasy football is the only thing that keeps me engaged in all the other games. 

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4 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

How much does that stem from the Jets just sucking really bad for the past few years with no hope of getting better anytime soon? Because that's how it works for me often enough. In the first two years with Sanchez and Rex, I'd be glued to the TV watching them and every game to see how it effects us because I knew we had a chance at something. But since they've sucked...what's the point? To watch them be down 21-3 by the half? When I could be doing more productive things with my day off. Fantasy football is the only thing that keeps me engaged in all the other games. 

Everyone is different how they approach the NFL.  What your saying is true, there are a lot of fans who only get very vested when a particular team is good.

It's just not the Jets ratings that are down, it's the entire NFL.  I was a fan during the Kotite era, and was very involved with following the team, and the NFL in general, I just do't have that "OMG it's Monday night, don't bother me I'm watching football tonight" passion anymore.  Lot of reasons for that.  As I said I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also encountering a lot of people who seemed to be passionate Steelers fans, Fish fans, Giants fans etc.  A lot of people I know have gone  from passionate fans to "I can take it or leave it Fans"

Not a good trend for the NFL

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4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Everyone is different how they approach the NFL.  What your saying is true, there are a lot of fans who only get very vested when a particular team is good.

It's just not the Jets ratings that are down, it's the entire NFL.  I was a fan during the Kotite era, and was very involved with following the team, and the NFL in general, I just do't have that "OMG it's Monday night, don't bother me I'm watching football tonight" passion anymore.  Lot of reasons for that.  As I said I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also encountering a lot of people who seemed to be passionate Steelers fans, Fish fans, Giants fans etc.  A lot of people I know have gone  from passionate fans to "I can take it or leave it Fans"

Not a good trend for the NFL

I think this is where I am right now.  Sundays used to be blocked out for me - no other plans and my wife, kids, friends understood I'm watching the NFL all day  Sunday.   At this point if I have nothing going on I'll watch but if I have just about anything else to do, I'll do it and not have a second thought about the NFL.  I'll check the scores when I'm done.

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30 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I was in 216 I wish I could afford those seats I'm a diehard and I would be there every game. 

Wife told me after the game if you want them make it work. (yes she's a keeper) 

You had to be roasting!

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2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

You had to be roasting!

It was hottttttttt I'm ok with it I work outside we drank at least 5 waters each at $5 a shot hottest game I ever attended and I've been to many. 

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

It was hottttttttt I'm ok with it I work outside we drank at least 5 waters each at $5 a shot hottest game I ever attended and I've been to many. 

Yeah if you ever make it work like your wife says make sure to come over to the visiting side, the sun was off the 1st Row around 2 PM, and after that the heat was a non issue.

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Just now, Lupz27 said:

Yeah if you ever make it work like your wife says make sure to come over to the visiting side, the sun was off the 1st Row around 2 PM, and after that the heat was a non issue.

I saw that my son pointed that out but in colder months id rather be in the sun.  Is the TD club the same on that side?  That was really impressive. 

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

I saw that my son pointed that out but in colder months id rather be in the sun.  Is the TD club the same on that side?  That was really impressive. 

They are identical I believe.

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23 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is where I am right now.  Sundays used to be blocked out for me - no other plans and my wife, kids, friends understood I'm watching the NFL all day  Sunday.   At this point if I have nothing going on I'll watch but if I have just about anything else to do, I'll do it and not have a second thought about the NFL.  I'll check the scores when I'm done.

Yep

This is terrible, but I have an 8 YO grandson, my daughter always has his birthday party on a Sunday in Sept. Football is forbidden.  LOL

Shamefully yesterday was the first birthday party I've been to.  

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10 hours ago, ThisYearsModel said:

Several reasons, IMO:

  • Used to be that the average Joe could afford season tix.  Only 8-10 games, maybe $1000 or so.  Greed killed that with absurd prices.  The blue collar crowd priced out and the game day experience now sucks.

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

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The NFL is the second coming of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey circus I just saw a clip of the NE sidelines on Sunday #55 his hair dyed blonde in corn rows I thought we were playing football not taking part in fashion show.  COME ON MAN 

NFL and Roger Goodell better fix ALL thats wrong sooner than later. 

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

SAR I with all due respect and I will commend you for your opinions on seating view after sitting in the MEZZ yesterday but the only seats that are affordable in that stadium are the UP and the view sucks. 

As far the parking lot issues we parked in GREEN lot and after the game theres still beer bottles and trash all over the lot. 

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14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

SAR I with all due respect and I will commend you for your opinions on seating view after sitting in the MEZZ yesterday but the only seats that are affordable in that stadium are the UP and the view sucks. 

As far the parking lot issues we parked in GREEN lot and after the game theres still beer bottles and trash all over the lot. 

Its your definition of "affordable" that needs adjusting.  Yes, to be a PSL owner and 30 year season ticket holder you need to have a lot of coin, there is no denying that.

But, if one wants to attend every home game each year in a slightly different location each game, one can save 30% to 75% off of the gameday ticket price and pay $0 towards a PSL by simply becoming a Stubhub surfer.  Good Lord how I wish such a thing existed in the 80s and 90s when I was in my 20s and 30s and wanted to go to every Jets game and spent all those afternoons taking the Port Authority bus of shame home at kickoff because I struck out in getting seats I could afford.

Thank you for the kind words about Mezzanine seating, I'm quite pleased with my location.  As you discovered sweating yesterday, being on the shady side of the stadium has a bigger benefit in September than being in the sunny side of the stadium does in December.  As for the Green lot, it's bad now because the team is bad and prices are cheap.  Back when we were good, the Green people showed up instead of selling their parking passes.  It'll pass.  We'll be good again.

SAR I

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7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Thank you for the kind words about Mezzanine seating, I'm quite pleased with my location.  As you discovered sweating yesterday, being on the shady side of the stadium has a bigger benefit in September than being in the sunny side of the stadium does in December.  As for the Green lot, it's bad now because the team is bad and prices are cheap.  Back when we were good, the Green people showed up instead of selling their parking passes.  It'll pass.  We'll be good again.

Your welcome we have always agreed to disagree on many subjects here over time. 

I really like the MEZZ and the TD club it has endless possibilities, and the finer things in life do come with a price. 

 

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33 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

I have to say there is some truth to what you say, but there are some downsides that I don't think you are considering.

1. Tickets are more available now; this is especially true for visiting fans who hold that particular game at a higher value then a typical Jets fan that can pick from the other 7.

2. One of the best parts about season ticket holders is that they always sit together; there is a sense of camaraderie that is lost when you hop around. It may not be a big deal, but it does take a away something from the game day experience.

3. The lack of consistent quality 'blue collar' fans provided a community and safe zone for the casual or family fan. Now the jack@$$, who isn't likely bought this more available ticket isn't as concerned with the norms of the section (as there aren't any) and without the thought of loosing his season tickets (as he likely doesn't have any) is more likely to act up. Since I tend to go to games as a visitor, I can tell you that the experience and safety that used to be associated with the stadium is gone. Not only do I worry about going to other stadiums wearing a Jets jersey, I wouldn't even think of bringing my daughter (who would wear a Pats jersey - I know - sad) to a game. Too much violence, and swearing. I used to go the games every year - often sitting around cops, construction guys, etc. - nobody got too far out of hand - the crowd set the stage.

4. Since tickets are more available, the casual fan is more likely to get them; I can't tell you how annoying it is to sit next to a fan that is screaming about a bad call, etc and that clearly doesn't know the rules of football. Go to a game a Gillette, they are so used to getting their way, anytime something happens they are either screaming for a flag or complaining about getting one. 10 years ago, the fans knew the game inside and out. The hated outside fans, but respected the game, another fans knowledge, and while they would give you 'crap'; you were always safe and they were even friendly....

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I have been thinking about this and the pursuit of TV ratings is what I think is causing the downturn in ratings. The way the NFL is presented on TV it makes it seem like there are only a few teams important in the NFL: Cowboys, Giants, Patriots, Packers, Steelers. Indy with Manning. I mean one of those 5 teams is in almost every single Sunday or Monday game. Which marginalizes the fan base of all the other teams. Watching the games it is also obvious they get more calls. Example being the "catch" to win the game yesterday for NE. Any other team other than these 5 and that is incomplete.

Then when you add in that the most successful team in the NFL is thought to cheat by anyone outside of NE, and the horrible way Goodell handles many things especially the seeming arbitrary nature of player punishment and it all create this air of elitism, favoritism and inbalance in the NFL.

If your team never gets any prestige and the deck is completely stacked against them to begin with, how can you be successful long term?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I have to say there is some truth to what you say, but there are some downsides that I don't think you are considering.

1. Tickets are more available now; this is especially true for visiting fans who hold that particular game at a higher value then a typical Jets fan that can pick from the other 7.

2. One of the best parts about season ticket holders is that they always sit together; there is a sense of camaraderie that is lost when you hop around. It may not be a big deal, but it does take a away something from the game day experience.

3. The lack of consistent quality 'blue collar' fans provided a community and safe zone for the casual or family fan. Now the jack@$$, who isn't likely bought this more available ticket isn't as concerned with the norms of the section (as there aren't any) and without the thought of loosing his season tickets (as he likely doesn't have any) is more likely to act up. Since I tend to go to games as a visitor, I can tell you that the experience and safety that used to be associated with the stadium is gone. Not only do I worry about going to other stadiums wearing a Jets jersey, I wouldn't even think of bringing my daughter (who would wear a Pats jersey - I know - sad) to a game. Too much violence, and swearing. I used to go the games every year - often sitting around cops, construction guys, etc. - nobody got too far out of hand - the crowd set the stage.

4. Since tickets are more available, the casual fan is more likely to get them; I can't tell you how annoying it is to sit next to a fan that is screaming about a bad call, etc and that clearly doesn't know the rules of football. Go to a game a Gillette, they are so used to getting their way, anytime something happens they are either screaming for a flag or complaining about getting one. 10 years ago, the fans knew the game inside and out. The hated outside fans, but respected the game, another fans knowledge, and while they would give you 'crap'; you were always safe and they were even friendly....

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

Yeah, it is crazy. The real problem is that you could eliminate the drinking at the games, but a lot of fans are already drunk from tailgating before they go through the gates. Besides the owners make a ton from sales (personally I don't like paying $8 for a crappy beer) and they would never piss off the advertisers like Bud, etc.

As for the police are concerned, I wasn't referring to the ones working the games, but those who were watching the games with other fans. They just wanted to have a good time. No real chip on their shoulder for assuming any action is a statement about their uniform. Off duty police, fireman, etc. watching the game and trying to enjoy it; they set a socially acceptable standard for behavior and rarely had to enforce it...

EDIT: Fenway park, however, has had a 'family' section(s) on the 3rd base side for a long time. It is a no-drinking, no-swearing, no-smoking section - perfectly designed for family entertainment. We have sit in other sections as well and have never seen a fight, or an overly drunk obnoxious fan (although we only go to a couple of games a year and never the yankees). I have no problem taking my 8 year old there - Gillette on the other hand isn't going to happen for quite a while.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

Alcohol problems at MetLife starts with them allowing the blatantly drunk fan in the game and then continually feeding them drinks during the game. 

The security/ushers are the worst in the NFL I've been to other stadiums. 

Yesterday there was a fight in the LL EZ from the looks of things it took forever for the security/ushers to get to it. 

Most people drink responsibly. 

Im still angry at the fans who leave empty beer bottles in the parking lot there is no reason for this whatsoever. 

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On 9/23/2017 at 7:01 PM, joewilly12 said:

Youth football programs lacking numbers it starts early with parents raising pussy's. 

Teach kids to tackle with their shoulder and bodies and not their helmets early on. 

The players of the 60s and 70s were taught to tackle with their shoulder and body and they're the ones turning up with CTE.  

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As with a lot of things, there's a simple answer and there's more detailed, convoluted answer. The simple answer is that the NFL fanbase is mostly male and there's only 2 things that really sell to a fanbase that is mostly male: sex and sports. Too often the NFL has deviated from this formula which leads to reduced interest. The NFL tries to make the product like a reality show and they're always telling you how great the athletes are between breaks.

 

The truth is I'm a grown man who likes grown man things. I'm not some slapdick guy. If someone doesn't like that, I apologize to them but it is what it is. I have no interest in watching the Kardashians drama or worshiping a bunch of men who play games for a living no matter how great you tell me they are. I just don't. If you decide to make that the focus of your product, there's a good chance I might change the channel. Some people might interpret that in a nasty way but I'm not trying to hurt people's feelings. It's just the reality of the situation.

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On 9/25/2017 at 12:09 PM, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

You make some good points, but I doubt alcohol sales will ever be banned.  Selling  $1 worth of beer for $12 is just to tempting.  

What might be gone in the near future, and probably should, is tail gates parties with alcohol.  Brings nothing to the average fan, and costs the team money.  That' where most violent drunks will slam down a 12 pack of Colt 45, go in the stadium, and vomit on the person in front of them.

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it will take a major catastrophe involving alcohol for the league to ban it.  They can sell $10 beer that costs a couple of cents.  a person was killed by a drunk driver leaving a Giant game a few years back and that didn't change anything.  the only thing that ever changed was cutting off sales before the end of the game after our embarrassment on Mon Night in 1988 vs. the Bills. 

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I have a story that might be relevant.

 

ive been in the same fantasy football league with the same group of guyssince 1999.  I used to change my lineups in my college library’s computer room since it was the only place that had high speed internet lol.  It goes back that far.  The Commish of this league (who is one of my best friends) decided this year that he wasn’t going to do the league.  I asked him why and he said, “I just don’t have the love for the game anymore.”   Now this kid was one of the hugest sports fans I know....used to have season tix to nets, would only get direct tv because he needed to have the nfl package, listened to wfan all day long ect.  It blew my mind that he just decided one day that he didn’t like football.  He still will be doing his nba fantasy league so I know he didn’t give up on all sports, just football.  So I was watching red zone on Sunday and just gave him a ring to shoot the sh*t while I watched football.  As I’m talking to him I ask him if he is watching the jets game? He says to me, “nah, just hanging with my daughter at my house.....if anything I’ll put on red zone at 330 and see if there are any good endings of games I can watch.” This blew my mind, we used to sit on the couch from noon until midnight watching games together and he was maybe going to watch red zone for a few minutes at 330? What gives I asked? He told me that football is such an all day commitment and now that he has a wife and kids he just can’t justify wasting his  only true day off sitting in front of a tv anymore.  Could it be as simple as the rabid nfl fan who used to spend the entire day in front of the tv just grew up and doesn’t have the desire to sit on a couch all day? Plus there were a ton of 18 year olds who got into football 20 years ago solely because they were in  fantasy league...they had no love for the game, only the “action” their league provided them.  Peoples interests change as time goes on....remember when baseball was truly America’s pastime? Now most people only watch during the playoffs...no one Ever would’ve predicted that in the 50’s and 60’s.  I just think the young nfl viewers that elevated the league 20 years ago got old and decided they had other interests.....and the nfl isn’t replacing them with today’s 18 year olds because they don’t have the attention span to sit on a couch every Sunday from noon to midnight.  

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Injecting politics into the game is only going to add to the pressure on ratings and attendance.  It naturally alienates a portion of your fan base who either 1) disagrees with the politics you are promoting or 2) look for sports to be an escape from politics.  You're not going to gain fans who come to the league because they like the politics...

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imo a couple of things.  first the whole concussion thing is becoming the nightmare the nfl should have thought it would be.  the snowflakes just won't watch because of things like concussions. the second thing is sooooo many players are complete social miscreants.  look at how roethlisberger avoided punishment for all of those alleged charges of sexual coercion.  and the same goes for the delayed reaction to ray rice and peterson and a whole host of really bad behavior.  the third thing is the games cost so much to attend. people have $500 to drop on a pair of tickets plus whatever the parking costs plus the ridiculous food at the stadium?  i know that teams probably don't need the gate to make team costs but that shouldn't mean they jack up ticket prices. fourth, the referees are poor. they have no clue about which penalties to call and frequently call game stalling ones, just because.  on sunday johnson was called for holding on powell's long run.  huh?  that wasn't holding.  fifth, they have decidedly created home field advantage for certain teams.  no way the jets or anyone else win a penalty war in foxboro.  it just doesn't happen. sixth, the qb's get away with way too much.  intentional grounding isn't called the way it used to be and neither is in the grasp.  in the bills game a jets player had tyrod's ankles in his hands yet tyrod threw a pass that was completed.  that should've been in the grasp especially if the goal is to prevent the qb's from being injured.  maybe the rule needs to be "if the qb is unable to gain yards by running then the play should be blow dead".

and i'm not going to touch much on the whole national anthem thing.  but every little bit helps.  nfl wants to increase ratings?  then start by getting rid of the knuckleheads and showing respect for the people who watch the games and pay for the product.

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On 9/23/2017 at 1:17 PM, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Well said. Concussions should be added, which were a factor in ruining boxing. I would add that the reality TV political climate has put most sports in the shade. Watching a football game seems somehow rather routine and passe these days. And more than ever the NFL seems primarily a highly corporate business -- the joy of sports has somehow dissipated over the last few years.

I remember years ago when went went to a relatives house for thanksgiving.. There were 2 simple rules no political or religious discussions just eat drink and enjoy the games.. I wish that was still the case..

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