We better effing lose every game

[sourceworx]

11 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Darnold has been doing well this season?

Not impressed. 

[NYs Stepchild]

23 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Yes I agree with this. The sorry state of this franchise at this time could be a contributing factor. I don't agree with him picking his own coach though. The reasoning behind that is that no NFL owner would give a rookie that kind of power even that Momser Johnson. The vets would revolt and it would become a huge mess. Can you imagine the bacKlash? The media would crucify him before he played a down. No. That would be a huge mess.

Like it could get worse? 

I'm not saying you let him pick the coach like Lebron, just that you make his team feel like their input is valued. 

We need to hire a president of football operations first, then let them go sit in their living room easing any concerns that they have just as if you were recruiting them to a school. 

[Pcola]

Since the Archie/Eli/Chargers issue has come up again, let's actually discuss the why's behind it.

The Mannings didn't want anything to do with the Chargers, not because of the coach or GM.  Not because of the location, fans, or even the roster.  They said hell no because of Dean Spanos.  Coaches, GMs, rosters, they all change.  And pretty damn quickly in the NFL.  But in most cases, you are stuck with the owner.

Spanos is a cheap SOB that has annually proven that the Mannings were right.  Every year he gets cheap with the contracts for their top picks, never seem to bring in the top free agents and as such, aren't very relevant despite having one of the best QBs over the past ten years.

Say what you want about Woody.  With this year as the only exception, he spends the money.  He is overly aggressive in Free Agency.  

And Darnold would be the biggest star in the biggest city once he got the Jets back to the playoffs.

[JetFaninMI]

12 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Like it could get worse? 

I'm not saying you let him pick the coach like Lebron, just that you make his team feel like their input is valued. 

We need to hire a president of football operations first, then let them go sit in their living room easing any concerns that they have just as if you were recruiting them to a school. 

You said "fire whoever he wants and let him have input AND OKAY OUR CHOICES IF WE HAVE TOO".

 If that isn't letting him pick what is? No way no how that happens. Whats next consulting him on draft picks and FA's? This would never happen. Here's what will happen. Darnold comes out or he doesn't. The Jets pick him or they don't. They don't need to entice the guy to come here that's what contracts are for. If he has reservations about playing here then all the enticements in the world mean nothing. Especially if he doesn't want to be here. You would be better off not drafting him if he has reservations or is not comfortable not playing for this team or in NY.

[nico002]

1 hour ago, JetFaninMI said:

Don't put word's in my mouth. I never said there was a strong chance just that you can't be sure. Fear mongering? LOL. Are you serious? If you have some irrational fear over who might or might not declare for the NFL draft maybe you need to find a safe space. My point is nothing is guaranteed. The Jets as bad as they are are not guaranteed the 1st pick are they? It certainly looks that way but you can't be sure right? Even if they do get that pick you still will have Macc making it. You never know what lurks in the mind of a moron. Sorry but I have lived through too much with this team and their abysmal draft pick history to be assured of anything. I will not believe it until I see Darnold on that stage wearing a Jet jersey. Until then its all just speculation.

Yes fear mongoring aka trolling. You’re going around the board insisting that there is a legitimate chance he doesn’t declare, which is BS. 

[HawkeyeJet]

11 hours ago, nico002 said:

You guys need to stop looking at stats and start watching games.

Things Darnold does:

- has a big, almost Big Ben like frame as a sophmore

- incredible pocket awareness and movement, keeps eyes downfield while evading the rush with subtle movements in the pocket

- goes through every progression and keeps eyes downfield 

- extremely accurate in short medium and long throws

- elevates his game in crunch time 

the guy seriously reminds me of a Big Ben/Rodgers hybrid. He’s the best college QB I’ve ever seen play. 

 

Then you must not watch a lot of college football.

[Gangrene]

11 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I don't think Macc passes on Darnold if we have the first pick. Macc isn't stupid. He knows like everyone else that this kid is beyond anything we have really witnessed on the college level. He's a scout first. And when you see someone with skills that transcend to the pro level so easy and effortlessly from the first day he took over as starter...you don't pass.

I get it...he's a scout but McCagnan drafting Hackenberg in the second round considering what his game tape his last two years of his college career looked like crap seemed to me to border on madness.  Thinking that you can coach the kid up...fine but pick him in the 4th or later

His decision this year skipping on Dalvin Cook to draft a second safety in the second round... I don't trust his judgement, he makes very strange decisions

[BklynJetsFan85]

Nah I hate USC QBs, cursed, gimme Baker Mayfield from Oklahoma


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[BurnleyJet]

3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

He's not going to stay when he could be the number one pick unless his dad is Archie Manning. 

Even he learned that he should just say he's not playing for the team that drafts him...That I'm afraid could be a possibility.

If that's the case then we should find out what he wants and give it to him.

Fire whoever he wants and let him have input and okay our choices if we have to. 

 

If he stays not guarantee the next Team picking #1 will be form Cali. Plus he loses a year of First overall money. if he is a real Franchise QB NY is perfect place for him to be high profile in the media.

Someones got to take over Brady in the AFC East when he retires.

[Patriot Killa]

10 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

I get it...he's a scout but McCagnan drafting Hackenberg in the second round considering what his game tape his last two years of his college career looked like crap seemed to me to border on madness.  Thinking that you can coach the kid up...fine but pick him in the 4th or later

His decision this year skipping on Dalvin Cook to draft a second safety in the second round... I don't trust his judgement, he makes very strange decisions

If we pick first you can bet your house it's Darnold. Feel like your reaching a little man. Cook wasn't picked because of his shady background. And Mac seen something he liked in Hack so he took a swing. I don't blame him at all. If you see something in a QB you absolutely take that chance. QB is the hardest position to predict is QB but Darnold/Rosen are far from having to strain on a prediction.

[BurnleyJet]

40 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

If we pick first you can bet your house it's Darnold. Feel like your reaching a little man. Cook wasn't picked because of his shady background. And Mac seen something he liked in Hack so he took a swing. I don't blame him at all. If you see something in a QB you absolutely take that chance. QB is the hardest position to predict is QB but Darnold/Rosen are far from having to strain on a prediction.

Darnold's a Luck type pick. its a no Brainer even for our GM.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, BurnleyJet said:

Darnold's a Luck type pick its a no Brainer even for our GM.

Exactly my point. It'd be a reach to say any thing different. Picking 3rd..4th..then you start worrying about draft options. We pick first or 2nd? You should know what is going to happen. Anyone that works in a NFL front office is smart enough not to pass. It's really that simple.

[Gangrene]

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

If we pick first you can bet your house it's Darnold. Feel like your reaching a little man. Cook wasn't picked because of his shady background. And Mac seen something he liked in Hack so he took a swing. I don't blame him at all. If you see something in a QB you absolutely take that chance. QB is the hardest position to predict is QB but Darnold/Rosen are far from having to strain on a prediction.

The little man comment I can do without, this is a conversation about football, not my height.  Dalvin Cook was examined with a microscope at drafting, there was  a sizeable amount of people who felt that Cook's trouble giving his increadibly poor background and rough environment... was behind him.  I would would not bet the house on McCagnan picking Darnold, he could easily trade down one or two picks to get extra draft picks.

[jetspenguin]

13 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Darnold has been doing well this season?

decent but way too many int's

[NYs Stepchild]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

You said "fire whoever he wants and let him have input AND OKAY OUR CHOICES IF WE HAVE TOO".

 If that isn't letting him pick what is? No way no how that happens. Whats next consulting him on draft picks and FA's? This would never happen. Here's what will happen. Darnold comes out or he doesn't. The Jets pick him or they don't. They don't need to entice the guy to come here that's what contracts are for. If he has reservations about playing here then all the enticements in the world mean nothing. Especially if he doesn't want to be here. You would be better off not drafting him if he has reservations or is not comfortable not playing for this team or in NY.

No. If he is refusing to come here then we need to find out why. If I didn't think we needed to fire people i wouldn't but it's pretty obvious that we do. 

If he was alone in feeling we're dysfunctional then you'd be right but we need to change. A top QB's team would be as good a place for Chris Johnson to take input as anywhere.

Once we get an acceptable team in place they would make the decisions. The QB would have to live with that knowing he had input in that choice.

We lost Peyton for a similar reason. I believe most of us would like to go back and find out what it would take to get him.

I'm sure you'll stick to your principles and keep tilting at windmills.

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, Gangrene said:

The little man comment I can do without, this is a conversation about football, not my height.  Dalvin Cook was examined with a microscope at drafting, there was  a sizeable amount of people who felt that Cook's trouble giving his increadibly poor background and rough environment... was behind him.  I would would not bet the house on McCagnan picking Darnold, he could easily trade down one or two picks to get extra draft picks.

He missed a comma. He meant "You're reaching a little, man", not you're reaching a little man. 

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

If he stays not guarantee the next Team picking #1 will be form Cali. Plus he loses a year of First overall money. if he is a real Franchise QB NY is perfect place for him to be high profile in the media.

Someones got to take over Brady in the AFC East when he retires.

So a good idea would be to make sure he understands that we would be doing whatever it took to give him the opportunity to be successful right? 

Not pick the coach but show him we were going to build things the right way. 

I suppose you could try and convince him that Mac and Bowles are the right choice but I doubt you could do that with a straight face.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Gangrene said:

The little man comment I can do without, this is a conversation about football, not my height.  Dalvin Cook was examined with a microscope at drafting, there was  a sizeable amount of people who felt that Cook's trouble giving his increadibly poor background and rough environment... was behind him.  I would would not bet the house on McCagnan picking Darnold, he could easily trade down one or two picks to get extra draft picks.

Did it come off like that? I'm sorry I really should of punctuated correctly I meant "you are reaching a little, man." LOL I wasn't taking a shot at your height. I don't even know what you look like nor' how tall you are. Look, I'm 21 years old and I'm 5 foot 6 lol...I don't have that luxury even if I was to be a jerk and say that. My apologies on the misunderstanding.

[Gangrene]

24 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Did it come off like that? I'm sorry I really should of punctuated correctly I meant "you are reaching a little, man." LOL I wasn't taking a shot at your height. I don't even know what you look like nor' how tall you are. Look, I'm 21 years old and I'm 5 foot 6 lol...I don't have that luxury even if I was to be a jerk and say that. My apologies on the misunderstanding.

no worries, thanks PK.

[Apache 51]

16 hours ago, nico002 said:

I’ve never rooted for the jets to lose, but Sam Darnold is that good.

I’ve reached the point where winning would seriously just piss me off.

its bizarre, im actually EXCITED to see if we’ll lose tomorrow.

suck for Sam baby!!

 

 

I really wasn't paying close attention(seriously), but I thought I heard he was 0-8 in passing 15 yards, and throws pics? Is this true? Can you enlighten me? 

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Yes fear mongoring aka trolling. You’re going around the board insisting that there is a legitimate chance he doesn’t declare, which is BS. 

Did you even read a word that I wrote? I said nothing is GUARANTEED. Not the 1st pick, not that he will declare, not that he will even be on this team. Yet you insist I am trolling? No what you have a problem with is that I am disagreeing with your opinion which you are stating as fact.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

If he was alone in feeling we're dysfunctional then you'd be right but we need to change. A top QB's team would be as good a place for Chris Johnson to take input as anywhere.

Once we get an acceptable team in place they would make the decisions. The QB would have to live with that knowing he had input in that choice.

 

No. If he is refusing to come here then we need to find out why. If I didn't think we needed to fire people i wouldn't but it's pretty obvious that we do. 

All I said was that IF he does not want to come to the Jets you would be better off not drafting him. You seriously want what will be a 20 something year old rookie trying to dictate who will be the HC? Really? Are you high? If the Jets did that then Johnson should be forced to sell the team. I feel that both Macc and Bowles need to be gone. I have made no secret of this but to give a rookie that power that you want to give him is just plain crazy.

We lost Peyton for a similar reason. I believe most of us would like to go back and find out what it would take to get him.

Parcells would not guarantee that he would take Manning with the #1 pick. That's why we"lost" Peyton. Everyone knew that. As to why we "lost" him when he was coming back its simple. We were not a team that was one player away from winning the Super Bowl. At least thats what Manning thought. He made that clear didn't he?

I'm sure you'll stick to your principles and keep tilting at windmills.

 Its called common sense my stubborn friend. NO team owner would allow what you are suggesting. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I'm sure you will keep banging your head against that wall but be careful you might knock some sense into it. Santo Cazzo Madre di Cristo let a rookie who has never played a down in the NFL dictate who the HC is. Yeah where do I sign up for that.

[NYs Stepchild]

54 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

 

No. If he is refusing to come here then we need to find out why. If I didn't think we needed to fire people i wouldn't but it's pretty obvious that we do. 

All I said was that IF he does not want to come to the Jets you would be better off not drafting him. You seriously want what will be a 20 something year old rookie trying to dictate who will be the HC? Really? Are you high? If the Jets did that then Johnson should be forced to sell the team. I feel that both Macc and Bowles need to be gone. I have made no secret of this but to give a rookie that power that you want to give him is just plain crazy.

We lost Peyton for a similar reason. I believe most of us would like to go back and find out what it would take to get him.

Parcells would not guarantee that he would take Manning with the #1 pick. That's why we"lost" Peyton. Everyone knew that. As to why we "lost" him when he was coming back its simple. We were not a team that was one player away from winning the Super Bowl. At least thats what Manning thought. He made that clear didn't he?

I'm sure you'll stick to your principles and keep tilting at windmills.

 Its called common sense my stubborn friend. NO team owner would allow what you are suggesting. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I'm sure you will keep banging your head against that wall but be careful you might knock some sense into it. Santo Cazzo Madre di Cristo let a rookie who has never played a down in the NFL dictate who the HC is. Yeah where do I sign up for that.

You don't know that's why Peyton didn't declare. Who said that, Peyton or Parcells? 

Whatever it was we should have made every effort to get him here. 

I'm done arguing this point. You obviously just want to be right so are twisting everything I say. 

If players are willing to give up millions not to come here we need to change, and it would be wise to find out why. If you disagree with that then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

[JetFaninMI]

40 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I'm done arguing this point. You obviously just want to be right so are twisting everything I say. 

If players are willing to give up millions not to come here we need to change, and it would be wise to find out why. If you disagree with that then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

 

You don't know that's why Peyton didn't declare. Who said that, Peyton or Parcells? 

Whatever it was we should have made every effort to get him here. 

LOL. It was huge news. Mannings father even gave a press conference! You need to know what your talking about kid.

Twisting everything you say? I am merely quoting your posts. Whatever kid, get some history lessons and then come back.

 

[jeremy2020]

Welp. 6-10 incoming.

[NYs Stepchild]

6 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

 

You don't know that's why Peyton didn't declare. Who said that, Peyton or Parcells? 

Whatever it was we should have made every effort to get him here. 

LOL. It was huge news. Mannings father even gave a press conference! You need to know what your talking about kid.

Twisting everything you say? I am merely quoting your posts. Whatever kid, get some history lessons and then come back.

 

Show me the link to this press conference where Archie said Parcells would not guarantee Peyton was the first pick and that's why he was staying for his senior year. 

Go ahead I'll wait for that. 

[JetFaninMI]

9 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Show me the link to this press conference where Archie said Parcells would not guarantee Peyton was the first pick and that's why he was staying for his senior year. 

Go ahead I'll wait for that. 

 

Ok kid. Here it is. If Parcells would have committed to Archie Manning that he would take Peyton #1 he would have been a Jet. I'm surprised you didnt know this.

 

It's Been 20 Years Since Peyton Manning, The Jets, And The Draft That Might Have Been

Dom Cosentino

5/05/17 12:26pm

Twenty years ago, the NFL draft was marked by one of the most fateful quarterback choices in league history: Peyton Manning’s decision to stay at the University of Tennessee for his senior year. The Jets, who had the No. 1 pick in 1997, are still reeling from the aftershocks. And it all may have been because Bill Parcells couldn’t commit to what practically everyone else thought was a sure thing.

Manning’s prolific NFL career can be summed up thusly: He’s one of the greatest passers in history. The end. But what set Manning apart as far back as his college days was his status as a fail-safe prospect, a franchise savior. His 17-year career with the Colts and Broncos played out largely the way most observers and fans anticipated it would. But then, as now, quarterbacks were a scarce commodity. Then, as now, front offices thirsty for quarterbacks would panic themselves into believing any old chump at the top of the prospect heap could be molded into Joe Montana or Tom Brady. But Peyton Manning was different. He was that rarest of gems. He had that generational pedigree.

 

Now consider what could have been had he elected to declare for the draft after his junior season at Tennessee: The Jets, whose franchise history has more or less been a fruitless 40-year search for Joe Namath’s replacement, were up first. In the spring of ’97, the Jets were coming off a 1-15 nightmare that had shoved head coach Rich Kotite into permanent exile somewhere on Staten Island. But they had just hired Bill Parcells, whose handiwork to date included swift, massive construction projects with both the Giants and Patriots. Parcells had just taken the Pats to the Super Bowl, and the Jets had to compensate the Patriots for taking him away. There was some jousting, but in the end that compensation did not include the No. 1 pick in the draft. A Manning-Parcells pairing seemed to be inevitable.

If only it had been that simple.

---

David Cutcliffe told me he was “convinced” Manning would leave for the NFL after Manning’s junior season. Now the head coach at Duke, Cutcliffe was Manning’s offensive coordinator at Tennessee. He was so sure Manning was a goner that he had begun making preparations for a complete re-do of the Volunteers’ offense.

 

 

 

On the night before Manning held a press conference to announce his decision, Cutcliffe said he was in Atlanta with a few other coaches to meet with Dan Reeves, then the head coach of the Falcons. Cutcliffe was there learn a few new offensive concepts from Reeves. But then the phone at his hotel rang around 1 a.m. It was Manning calling. Cutcliffe described Manning as a “practical joker” who gave off every indication he would be leaving school. So Cutcliffe initially wasn’t sure whether to believe him when Manning said he was staying. Manning soon let him know this was no gag.

“We went back to Knoxville right then,” Cutcliffe told me.

Peyton Manning (right) and his father Archie after a Tennessee game in 1997. (Photo credit: Wade Payne/AP)

Rich Cimini has covered the Jets—without hazard pay—since 1985, first with Newsday, then with the New York Daily News, now with ESPN.com. He was at the Daily News at the time of Manning’s decision, and he wrote a story the morning of Manning’s press-conference announcement that said Manning was staying in school. Cimini got the info from what he thought was a rock-solid source. But, as Cimini wrote last year:

My heart sank when I got off the plane in Knoxville and saw the front page of the local paper. It screamed with the headline that none of its readership wanted to see: Their favorite son was leaning toward the NFL.

I feared an embarrassing faux pas. My story was wrong; surely, the locals had the inside scoop.

The headline Cimini saw splashed across page Page A-1 of the Knoxville News-Sentinel on March 5, 1997, read: “Manning’s moment; Grid decision: Insiders expect him to go pro.” But the actual story was more nuanced; it cited separate sources saying two different things. As Cutcliffe’s story demonstrates, it was clear Manning had kept his true feelings close to the vest. Manning even set up his announcement by delivering what Cimini described as “a 30-second preamble in which he made it sound like he was leaving school” before he finally said he was staying. Manning’s stated rationale was that he only got to be a college kid once, and he wanted to milk the experience for all it was worth—a not unreasonable stance, even for a guy who risked sacrificing millions in the event of a catastrophic injury.

“I’m having an incredible experience as a student-athlete at Tennessee,’’ Manning said that day. “But if I’m good enough to play in the NFL, as many experts say I am, then I can only be better after one more season.”

---

As obvious as it seems now, in hindsight, that Parcells was going to take Manning and place the Jets on a path to prosperity, Parcells never articulated his intentions to Manning’s camp—and that reticence may have influenced Manning into staying.

 

 

Because Manning had not declared for the draft, NFL teams were prohibited from having contact with him. There was nothing, of course, to stop Parcells from talking to Manning’s father, Archie, a former NFL quarterback, or to keep Parcells from denying any such contact took place. In an interview last year with Gary Myers of the New York Daily News, Parcells even said the league office was watching the Jets “like hawks” for any possible tampering with Manning.

But just before the draft, a few weeks after Manning announced he was staying in school, his mother, Olivia, told the New York Times:

“I think Peyton kept waiting for something to hit him, and when it didn’t happen, he wanted to return to school.”

She said that no one from the Jets made direct or indirect overtures.

“Peyton wanted to get it all done by April 4, when college practice started,” she said when asked whether the Jets might have been able to get him if they had tried. “He kept waiting.”

Myers reported that Archie had even called Parcells twice prior to Manning’s announcement—at Peyton’s request. More Myers:

He wanted to play for Parcells, he wanted to play for the Jets, he wanted to play in New York, but he didn’t want to declare for the draft and then be concerned that Parcells would trade the pick.

[...]

Archie told Parcells he thought there was a good chance Peyton would stay in school. That was an adjustment in Manning’s thinking because throughout his junior year he later said he was pretty intent on leaving. Around the NFL at the time, the consensus seemed to be if Parcells committed to Manning, he would leave Tennessee.

“I’m telling you, he’s pretty torn,” Archie told Parcells.

Parcells didn’t tell Archie his plan.

“If Bill had come out and said, ‘Peyton, you’re my guy, I’m going to pick you,’ it may have made it a little bit harder,” Archie said. “But I swear he wanted to be a senior.”

That last part squares with what Cutcliffe told me. Manning, according to Cutcliffe, had consulted with future NBA star Tim Duncan before making his decision. A year earlier, Duncan had chosen to stay for his senior year at Wake Forest rather than declare early for the NBA draft. “Peyton’s an unusual individual,” Cutcliffe said. “He kept saying he only had one chance to be a senior. It was all true.”

Peyton Manning poses for photos after the Indianapolis Colts drafted him No. 1 overall in 1998. (Photo credit: Jamie Squire/Allsport)

One matter Cutcliffe insisted did not influence Manning’s decision was the sexual harassment and employment discrimination lawsuit against the University of Tennessee that had been filed in the summer of 1996 by one of the school’s athletic trainers. Manning was among the athletes accused in the case, for which the trainer was paid a settlement in August 1997. The trainer later sued Manning for defamation, a case that ended in 2003 with an undisclosed settlement.

How Tennessee’s Sexual Harassment Allegations Caught Up With Peyton Manning 20 Years Later

In 1996, the summer before Peyton Manning’s junior season at the University of Tennessee, with his…

Read more

Parcells, for his part, told Myers he “knew” Manning would stay in school. And in a conversation three years ago with Cimini, Parcells hedged a bit more:

The Hall of Fame coach hasn’t revealed too much over the years about that chapter—some believe he would’ve traded the pick to accumulate extra draft choices—but he strongly hinted he would’ve selected Manning.

“Obviously, we had an interest in a quarterback, so, had he been available, I’m certain he would’ve been very, very strongly in the mix,” said Parcells, claiming he always had a “gut feeling” that Manning would stay at Tennessee.

Why might Parcells have been hesitant about picking Manning, given Manning’s bona fides? The Jets’ quarterback at the time was Neil O’Donnell, who was just two years removed from a Super Bowl appearance with the Steelers. Parcells also might have been tempted to trade down for additional picks because of how barren the Jets’ roster was. After Manning decided to stay in school, Parcells wound up trading down twice. The Rams ended up with the No. 1 pick and selected offensive tackle Orlando Pace, a future Hall of Famer. The Jets, at No. 8, picked linebacker James Farrior, whose rather solid career was spent mostly with the Steelers.

Bill Parcells (right) and Neil O’Donnell during a 1997 Jets game. (Photo credit: Mark Lennihan/AP)

Manning returned to Tennessee and threw for 3,819 yards and 36 touchdowns as a senior. He was the SEC player of the year and a runner-up for the Heisman Trophy. The Vols finished 11-2 and ranked seventh in the final AP poll, and Manning’s status as the prize of the draft was not affected by a blowout loss to co-national champion Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. The Colts drafted him No. 1 overall in 1998.

 

As it turned out, the ’97 Jets improved to 9-7, with O’Donnell making 14 starts. But they lost three of their last four and missed the playoffs. And O’Donnell wound up in Parcells’s dog house. In June 1998, Parcells cut O’Donnell after he refused to rework his contract. Vinny Testaverde, then 34 years old, was signed on as a replacement soon afterward and guided the Jets to the 1998 AFC Championship Game.

The Jets were a popular preseason Super Bowl pick in ’99 (seriously), but that optimism evaporated when Testaverde tore his Achilles in Week 1. Parcells quit after that season, and Bill Belichick lasted one day as his “HC of the NYJ” replacement before resigning abruptly to torture the Jets (and the rest of the NFL) from New England. Chad Pennington, Brett Favre, and Mark Sanchez provided the Jets with some fleeting rays of sunshine in the years that followed, but Jets quarterbacks in this century have mostly been shadowed by black clouds. The same Colts that drafted Manning, meanwhile, had Andrew Luck—another sure-thing quarterback—fall into their laps when again they had the No. 1 pick in 2012. An aging Manning finished out his career in 2015 by winning the Super Bowl—his second—with the Broncos.

There’s no telling what might have actually happened had Manning jumped to the NFL a year early, but it’s difficult not to imagine some kind of bright future for the Jets. The piercing reality is the Jets are tied with the Broncos and 49ers for most quarterbacks drafted (11) since 1999, though unlike the Broncos and 49ers, they haven’t made the Super Bowl in all that time. The Jets are forever mentoring quarterbacks. And after not drafting one last week, they are about to enter 2017 with Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg as their passing options. How’s that for scarcity?

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How Tennessee’s Sexual Harassment Allegations Caught Up With Peyton Manning 20 Years Later

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NYs Stepchild]

9 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

 

Ok kid. Here it is. If Parcells would have committed to Archie Manning that he would take Peyton #1 he would have been a Jet. I'm surprised you didnt know this.

 

It's Been 20 Years Since Peyton Manning, The Jets, And The Draft That Might Have Been

Dom Cosentino

5/05/17 12:26pm

Twenty years ago, the NFL draft was marked by one of the most fateful quarterback choices in league history: Peyton Manning’s decision to stay at the University of Tennessee for his senior year. The Jets, who had the No. 1 pick in 1997, are still reeling from the aftershocks. And it all may have been because Bill Parcells couldn’t commit to what practically everyone else thought was a sure thing.

Manning’s prolific NFL career can be summed up thusly: He’s one of the greatest passers in history. The end. But what set Manning apart as far back as his college days was his status as a fail-safe prospect, a franchise savior. His 17-year career with the Colts and Broncos played out largely the way most observers and fans anticipated it would. But then, as now, quarterbacks were a scarce commodity. Then, as now, front offices thirsty for quarterbacks would panic themselves into believing any old chump at the top of the prospect heap could be molded into Joe Montana or Tom Brady. But Peyton Manning was different. He was that rarest of gems. He had that generational pedigree.

 

Now consider what could have been had he elected to declare for the draft after his junior season at Tennessee: The Jets, whose franchise history has more or less been a fruitless 40-year search for Joe Namath’s replacement, were up first. In the spring of ’97, the Jets were coming off a 1-15 nightmare that had shoved head coach Rich Kotite into permanent exile somewhere on Staten Island. But they had just hired Bill Parcells, whose handiwork to date included swift, massive construction projects with both the Giants and Patriots. Parcells had just taken the Pats to the Super Bowl, and the Jets had to compensate the Patriots for taking him away. There was some jousting, but in the end that compensation did not include the No. 1 pick in the draft. A Manning-Parcells pairing seemed to be inevitable.

If only it had been that simple.

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David Cutcliffe told me he was “convinced” Manning would leave for the NFL after Manning’s junior season. Now the head coach at Duke, Cutcliffe was Manning’s offensive coordinator at Tennessee. He was so sure Manning was a goner that he had begun making preparations for a complete re-do of the Volunteers’ offense.

 

 

 

On the night before Manning held a press conference to announce his decision, Cutcliffe said he was in Atlanta with a few other coaches to meet with Dan Reeves, then the head coach of the Falcons. Cutcliffe was there learn a few new offensive concepts from Reeves. But then the phone at his hotel rang around 1 a.m. It was Manning calling. Cutcliffe described Manning as a “practical joker” who gave off every indication he would be leaving school. So Cutcliffe initially wasn’t sure whether to believe him when Manning said he was staying. Manning soon let him know this was no gag.

“We went back to Knoxville right then,” Cutcliffe told me.

Peyton Manning (right) and his father Archie after a Tennessee game in 1997. (Photo credit: Wade Payne/AP)

Rich Cimini has covered the Jets—without hazard pay—since 1985, first with Newsday, then with the New York Daily News, now with ESPN.com. He was at the Daily News at the time of Manning’s decision, and he wrote a story the morning of Manning’s press-conference announcement that said Manning was staying in school. Cimini got the info from what he thought was a rock-solid source. But, as Cimini wrote last year:

My heart sank when I got off the plane in Knoxville and saw the front page of the local paper. It screamed with the headline that none of its readership wanted to see: Their favorite son was leaning toward the NFL.

I feared an embarrassing faux pas. My story was wrong; surely, the locals had the inside scoop.

The headline Cimini saw splashed across page Page A-1 of the Knoxville News-Sentinel on March 5, 1997, read: “Manning’s moment; Grid decision: Insiders expect him to go pro.” But the actual story was more nuanced; it cited separate sources saying two different things. As Cutcliffe’s story demonstrates, it was clear Manning had kept his true feelings close to the vest. Manning even set up his announcement by delivering what Cimini described as “a 30-second preamble in which he made it sound like he was leaving school” before he finally said he was staying. Manning’s stated rationale was that he only got to be a college kid once, and he wanted to milk the experience for all it was worth—a not unreasonable stance, even for a guy who risked sacrificing millions in the event of a catastrophic injury.

“I’m having an incredible experience as a student-athlete at Tennessee,’’ Manning said that day. “But if I’m good enough to play in the NFL, as many experts say I am, then I can only be better after one more season.”

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As obvious as it seems now, in hindsight, that Parcells was going to take Manning and place the Jets on a path to prosperity, Parcells never articulated his intentions to Manning’s camp—and that reticence may have influenced Manning into staying.

 

 

Because Manning had not declared for the draft, NFL teams were prohibited from having contact with him. There was nothing, of course, to stop Parcells from talking to Manning’s father, Archie, a former NFL quarterback, or to keep Parcells from denying any such contact took place. In an interview last year with Gary Myers of the New York Daily News, Parcells even said the league office was watching the Jets “like hawks” for any possible tampering with Manning.

But just before the draft, a few weeks after Manning announced he was staying in school, his mother, Olivia, told the New York Times:

“I think Peyton kept waiting for something to hit him, and when it didn’t happen, he wanted to return to school.”

She said that no one from the Jets made direct or indirect overtures.

“Peyton wanted to get it all done by April 4, when college practice started,” she said when asked whether the Jets might have been able to get him if they had tried. “He kept waiting.”

Myers reported that Archie had even called Parcells twice prior to Manning’s announcement—at Peyton’s request. More Myers:

He wanted to play for Parcells, he wanted to play for the Jets, he wanted to play in New York, but he didn’t want to declare for the draft and then be concerned that Parcells would trade the pick.

[...]

Archie told Parcells he thought there was a good chance Peyton would stay in school. That was an adjustment in Manning’s thinking because throughout his junior year he later said he was pretty intent on leaving. Around the NFL at the time, the consensus seemed to be if Parcells committed to Manning, he would leave Tennessee.

“I’m telling you, he’s pretty torn,” Archie told Parcells.

Parcells didn’t tell Archie his plan.

“If Bill had come out and said, ‘Peyton, you’re my guy, I’m going to pick you,’ it may have made it a little bit harder,” Archie said. “But I swear he wanted to be a senior.”

That last part squares with what Cutcliffe told me. Manning, according to Cutcliffe, had consulted with future NBA star Tim Duncan before making his decision. A year earlier, Duncan had chosen to stay for his senior year at Wake Forest rather than declare early for the NBA draft. “Peyton’s an unusual individual,” Cutcliffe said. “He kept saying he only had one chance to be a senior. It was all true.”

Peyton Manning poses for photos after the Indianapolis Colts drafted him No. 1 overall in 1998. (Photo credit: Jamie Squire/Allsport)

One matter Cutcliffe insisted did not influence Manning’s decision was the sexual harassment and employment discrimination lawsuit against the University of Tennessee that had been filed in the summer of 1996 by one of the school’s athletic trainers. Manning was among the athletes accused in the case, for which the trainer was paid a settlement in August 1997. The trainer later sued Manning for defamation, a case that ended in 2003 with an undisclosed settlement.

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Parcells, for his part, told Myers he “knew” Manning would stay in school. And in a conversation three years ago with Cimini, Parcells hedged a bit more:

The Hall of Fame coach hasn’t revealed too much over the years about that chapter—some believe he would’ve traded the pick to accumulate extra draft choices—but he strongly hinted he would’ve selected Manning.

“Obviously, we had an interest in a quarterback, so, had he been available, I’m certain he would’ve been very, very strongly in the mix,” said Parcells, claiming he always had a “gut feeling” that Manning would stay at Tennessee.

Why might Parcells have been hesitant about picking Manning, given Manning’s bona fides? The Jets’ quarterback at the time was Neil O’Donnell, who was just two years removed from a Super Bowl appearance with the Steelers. Parcells also might have been tempted to trade down for additional picks because of how barren the Jets’ roster was. After Manning decided to stay in school, Parcells wound up trading down twice. The Rams ended up with the No. 1 pick and selected offensive tackle Orlando Pace, a future Hall of Famer. The Jets, at No. 8, picked linebacker James Farrior, whose rather solid career was spent mostly with the Steelers.

Bill Parcells (right) and Neil O’Donnell during a 1997 Jets game. (Photo credit: Mark Lennihan/AP)

Manning returned to Tennessee and threw for 3,819 yards and 36 touchdowns as a senior. He was the SEC player of the year and a runner-up for the Heisman Trophy. The Vols finished 11-2 and ranked seventh in the final AP poll, and Manning’s status as the prize of the draft was not affected by a blowout loss to co-national champion Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. The Colts drafted him No. 1 overall in 1998.

 

As it turned out, the ’97 Jets improved to 9-7, with O’Donnell making 14 starts. But they lost three of their last four and missed the playoffs. And O’Donnell wound up in Parcells’s dog house. In June 1998, Parcells cut O’Donnell after he refused to rework his contract. Vinny Testaverde, then 34 years old, was signed on as a replacement soon afterward and guided the Jets to the 1998 AFC Championship Game.

The Jets were a popular preseason Super Bowl pick in ’99 (seriously), but that optimism evaporated when Testaverde tore his Achilles in Week 1. Parcells quit after that season, and Bill Belichick lasted one day as his “HC of the NYJ” replacement before resigning abruptly to torture the Jets (and the rest of the NFL) from New England. Chad Pennington, Brett Favre, and Mark Sanchez provided the Jets with some fleeting rays of sunshine in the years that followed, but Jets quarterbacks in this century have mostly been shadowed by black clouds. The same Colts that drafted Manning, meanwhile, had Andrew Luck—another sure-thing quarterback—fall into their laps when again they had the No. 1 pick in 2012. An aging Manning finished out his career in 2015 by winning the Super Bowl—his second—with the Broncos.

There’s no telling what might have actually happened had Manning jumped to the NFL a year early, but it’s difficult not to imagine some kind of bright future for the Jets. The piercing reality is the Jets are tied with the Broncos and 49ers for most quarterbacks drafted (11) since 1999, though unlike the Broncos and 49ers, they haven’t made the Super Bowl in all that time. The Jets are forever mentoring quarterbacks. And after not drafting one last week, they are about to enter 2017 with Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg as their passing options. How’s that for scarcity?

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So I had to read that entire thing which said nothing I didn't already know. No press conference. No admission from Peyton, his father, or Parcells that Parcells had spoken, or not spoken to Archie, or that Peyton stayed in school for any reason except that he wanted to which is what Peyton says. Even if that was the case then Parcells made a huge mistake in my eyes. In yours he was right not to let some kid dictate to him how to run a team. 

The only person in the world who says they have any second hand knowledge of your claim is Gary Myers. I already knew that. Yeah that's proof. Give up now son.

 

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

So I had to read that entire thing which said nothing I didn't already know. No press conference. No admission from Peyton, his father, or Parcells that Parcells had spoken, or not spoken to Archie, or that Peyton stayed in school for any reason except that he wanted to which is what Peyton says. Even if that was the case then Parcells made a huge mistake in my eyes. In yours he was right not to let some kid dictate to him how to run a team. 

The only person in the world who says they have any second hand knowledge of your claim is Gary Myers. I already knew that. Yeah that's proof. Give up now son.

 

You are a little pisher aren't you? It was widely known that Mannings Dad was afraid Parcells would trade the pick. That's why they spoke at lenght about it. Parcells would not commit to it for fear of tampering charges and Peyton stayed in school. You can spin in anyway you want but thats what really happened. I would have loved to have Manning be a Jet but it was not in the cards.

There is a big difference between this and what you proposed. You want to give Darnold the power to have a say in who he wants to coach the team. I think that is so  out of the realm of possibility that I called you on it and you can't take it. Now go stand in the corner for a timeout and no snack before bedtime for you little boy.

[jetscrazey]

All I know is if the Jets beat both Jacksonville and Cleveland I'm gonna be freaking pissed.  Josh McCown might get us 4-5 wins but it will do NOTHING good for this franchise.

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

All I know is if the Jets beat both Jacksonville and Cleveland I'm gonna be freaking pissed.  Josh McCown might get us 4-5 wins but it will do NOTHING good for this franchise.

4-5 wins puts them in position to trade up with a team like the 49ers or Bears.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

4-5 wins puts them in position to trade up with a team like the 49ers or Bears.

But they don’t have the NFL currency to make that move that say a team like the Bulls now has because Macc has been trading draft picks like they’re going out of style. Unless you want to see them give up multiple firsts and seconds and then be unable to protect said quarterback. It’s also pretty obvious he isn’t a very good draft day trader, especially in the first round. I have no belief that if the Jets are sitting at 4 or 5 that they’d be able to move up to 1. There’s only one way for this team to get number one. 

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

But they don’t have the NFL currency to make that move that say a team like the Bulls now has because Macc has been trading draft picks like they’re going out of style. Unless you want to see them give up multiple firsts and seconds and then be unable to protect said quarterback. It’s also pretty obvious he isn’t a very good draft day trader, especially in the first round. I have no belief that if the Jets are sitting at 4 or 5 that they’d be able to move up to 1. There’s only one way for this team to get number one. 

I want to see them give up whatever they have to to get a QB.  We can have all the nice D-linemen, DBs, linebackers, WRs in the world, and w/o a QB, it won't matter.  

[CrazyCarl40]

7 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I want to see them give up whatever they have to to get a QB.  We can have all the nice D-linemen, DBs, linebackers, WRs in the world, and w/o a QB, it won't matter.  

Give up everything except wins. Got it. 

[AFJF]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Give up everything except wins. Got it. 

Are you still talking to me?  I think you are because you quoted me, but not sure because what you said has nothing to do with anything I said.