Smashmouth Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 While the QB is the most important position on the field its not the only position. If you have holes across major sections of the football team its going to be hard to win. In this case its why I always say elite coaching is just as important as having that elite QB. The Pats obviously have Brady but they have an amazing system that is a proven winner as well, that's why when they plug players in they are only having to deal with 1 or 2 players learning rather than dealing with wholesale changes. Also keeping that same system for 15 + years allows a QB like Brady to just get better and better and perfect what hes already good at. How many teams can say that ? The correct answer would be none. How many Bill Belichicks or Andy Reid's are there in the NFL ? There are a lot less Elite coaches than QB's. Good coaches win SB's because everything clicks personnel wise then the next year everyone wants to be paid and that's why other than the Pats its so damn hard to repeat. This is why I push so hard for a guy Like Harbaugh .... Break the damn bank let this guy choose your next QB from a deep class and let him run the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 9 hours ago, T0mShane said: This thread will come in handy when Mike Maccagnan gives Josh McCown $25 million dollars. that's not going to happen don't be a silly ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Jets paid Favre 20 and were on the way, he got hurt and Mangenius flushed the season but it was possible without the injury and probably the dicktweet To be fair they had Revis, Brick, Mangold and Harris on rookie deals to make up for the cap hit but I think it's possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 18 hours ago, Jetster said: It looks like its the best path to take, there's only 1 Tom Brady giving home town discounts. None of these other QBs or probably never in history will be married to someone who makes more money than some small countries like Giselle. I guarantee cheatriots leave a duffel bag of $$ on Brady’s doorstep so they can circumvent paying him around the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 18 hours ago, Jetster said: With Matthew Stafford breaking the bank & making 27 million, if the Lions don't get to & win a Super Bowl this year, will they ever? It seems that every team who has had to pony up big for their franchise QB can't get back to a Super Bowl. We all know that Brady gives a home town discount, Matt Ryan is also in that realm @ 20 million. Derek Carr is getting 25 million, same as Andrew Luck & Brees. The teams surrounding Luck & Brees are swiss cheese. Eli Manning (horrible oline) got paid averaging 21 million, Joe Flacco got paid & that's the end of the Ravens, Big Ben (22 mil), Steelers problem has been the Pats kicking their azz,lol, Wilson got paid & now he's lucky he can run playing behind awful olines, Cam got paid (13 mill cap hit the year they went to the Bowl but it went up to 20 million in 2016. Palmer in zona( 21 mill horrible oline.) Oakland is now in the same boat as the Lions, how do you pay Khalil Mack? or Amari Cooper, or keep that Oline together? There are only 2 Qbs in this league who can do more with less & that's Brady & Rogers, 20 mill & 22 mill respectively. This is the question that has to be asked when we talk about free agents like Luck or Cousins. You sign those guys your window is SMALL before contracts come due for other cornerstone players on your team. Its not easy to win a Super Bowl even with a great QB, Rogers has 1, the 2010 season. Its freaking 7 years ago. He's another guy who signed a huge contract & now runs for his life or the Pack defense cant get off of the field. He signed his big deal in 2013, 2 years after winning a Bowl (22 mill) & they haven't been back. Now, talk of his new contract for 2018 has him in range at 30 million a year. There is no way in hell at 30 million the Packers will be able to surround Rogers with enough good players to win a Super Bowl. This is a team with Jordy Nelson, Devonte Adams, Montgomery, Randall Cobb. So, here's another team with maybe a 2 year window, this year & next (Matthews, Cobb, Nelson, Clinton Dix, Montgomery, contract come up in 2019, Devonte Adams (2018). Just looking at this it tells me the best chance of getting to & winning a Super Bowl is to hit on a draft pick & win 1 in his 1st 5 years. I'm sure Maccagnon is well aware of these stats. Its really interesting. So, other than Tom Brady, not one franchise QB AFTER getting a new contract paying above 20 million has won a Super Bowl. By the way, the best all around team in the NFL is the Kansas City Chiefs, Alex Smith comes in at 17 million but KC can cut him after this year with only 3.6 million dead money. I noticed you left out Peyton Manning, what was he getting paid in Denver? I don't really follow the cap stuff and contracts and whatever but wasn't he getting paid? I think you can win paying a QB that money but you have to compliment that QB with great drafting and hitting on some of the lower end FA's. If you can hit on back to back drafts and get say 4-5 players out of it, yeah, you can win paying a QB that type of money. What was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, JiF said: I noticed you left out Peyton Manning, what was he getting paid in Denver? I don't really follow the cap stuff and contracts and whatever but wasn't he getting paid? I think you can win paying a QB that money but you have to compliment that QB with great drafting and hitting on some of the lower end FA's. If you can hit on back to back drafts and get say 4-5 players out of it, yeah, you can win paying a QB that type of money. What was Denver had an amazing defense & im sure they moved money around to make the cap work without having to cut anyone. So far they've let Decker & Ward go, I'm sure it was because the diferred contract $ & the bills came due. Again, that was such a once in an NFL moment, Payton coming off injury, Colts having the 1st pick & a sure fire QB like Luck coming out and to top it all off Payton made it very clear he wanted to play for the Broncos & Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 6 hours ago, AFJF said: After Stafford signed, I saw a tweet that I think came from Damien Woody. It sounded silly at first, but maybe not such a bad idea. He basically said teams are going to have to have a separate salary cap just for the QB position. Kirk Cousisns is going to be an interesting signing because how often does a QB like that hit FA? He may not, but it sure looks like he will. Does somebody pay him $30+ million? $35+ million? It will be interesting what the Redskins do. If they tag him again I think he will get $35M, but they can transition tag him for $29M. I doubt they want to pay him that much in straight salary without bonuses to monkey around with, but they might if they think it could net a pick or two. 7 minutes ago, JiF said: I noticed you left out Peyton Manning, what was he getting paid in Denver? I don't really follow the cap stuff and contracts and whatever but wasn't he getting paid? I think you can win paying a QB that money but you have to compliment that QB with great drafting and hitting on some of the lower end FA's. If you can hit on back to back drafts and get say 4-5 players out of it, yeah, you can win paying a QB that type of money. What was He was making $18-20M in Denver, but I think he took a cut down to $16M for 2015, the year they won the super bowl. I also think he got it all back in incentives, but I am not sure how those cost against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jetster said: Denver had an amazing defense & im sure they moved money around to make the cap work without having to cut anyone. So far they've let Decker & Ward go, I'm sure it was because the diferred contract $ & the bills came due. Again, that was such a once in an NFL moment, Payton coming off injury, Colts having the 1st pick & a sure fire QB like Luck coming out and to top it all off Payton made it very clear he wanted to play for the Broncos & Elway. So, you're saying they made it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said: It will be interesting what the Redskins do. If they tag him again I think he will get $35M, but they can transition tag him for $29M. I doubt they want to pay him that much in straight salary without bonuses to monkey around with, but they might if they think it could net a pick or two. He was making $18-20M in Denver, but I think he took a cut down to $16M for 2015, the year they won the super bowl. I also think he got it all back in incentives, but I am not sure how those cost against the cap. That's not 25 million so maybe a little easier to keep the roster loaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, JiF said: That's not 25 million so maybe a little easier to keep the roster loaded? That's the difference of Denver & Manning and a Cousins marriage with the Jets, Manning took less than the going rate & Denvers defense was LOADED, 2 top CBs, a huge nose tackle, Von Miller & Demarcus Ware, Ward at safety. We don't even have an average pass rusher, lol.Thats not to say I wouldn't want Cousins, but we wouldn't be winning games with defense, more like 31-28, but it would be more fun than the last 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, JiF said: That's not 25 million so maybe a little easier to keep the roster loaded? Yes. The cap has gone up some, but not that much. It was $120M in 2012, $123M in 2013, $133M in 2014 and $143M in 2015. His 2013 figure was a little over 16% of the cap. The current cap is around $167M, so 16% would be around $27M. That is the year they did made the super bowl and lose badly to Seattle. They lost Decker, Julius Thomas and some others before they won the super bowl and if the reports of a $4M cut are true, he may have only gotten around 11-12% of the 2015 cap. Still, I'm sure Elway would have preferred to pay Manning $25M than deal with starting Siemian last year and Houston would have preferred it to throwing $21M for 2016 away on Osweiler. One thing to remember about Stafford's deal is that he isn't making that much this year. According to overthecap.com he is still making under 10% of the cap for 2017 and it rises up to as much as 16%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 19 hours ago, AFJF said: After Stafford signed, I saw a tweet that I think came from Damien Woody. It sounded silly at first, but maybe not such a bad idea. He basically said teams are going to have to have a separate salary cap just for the QB position. Kirk Cousisns is going to be an interesting signing because how often does a QB like that hit FA? He may not, but it sure looks like he will. Does somebody pay him $30+ million? $35+ million? great thread, great question. as the salary cap continues to increase, what is the realistic % you can allocate to one position? 2 thoughts - 1 - you need to get into the playoffs to win the super bowl and the playoffs are dominated by the 'franchise' QB's so yes, you pay the QB. 2 - cousins is unique. The franchise tag was a mistake for washington. they should have let cousins hit the open market and then outbid everyone else. the franchise tag inflated his deal and prevented a lt contract from happening. next season will be interesting to see what his market rate is. I would have no problem iwth the Jets paying 25/yr for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 20 hours ago, Smashmouth said: that's not going to happen don't be a silly ass How can you ask someone to not exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I think that if the league or PA went for an exempt QB salary there would be pushback from pretty must every other player who isn's a QB. If they worded it differently like say, one player from each team can be exempt, it might have some legs. Of course, every exempt player WOULD BE a QB, but I think if it's worded just for a QB there would be an issue amongst the players. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Harris Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I remember we signed Neil O'Donnell to a 5 year $25 million deal after he took Pitt to the SB and I was blown away at how much money that was....it was the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Well, McCown isn't making 25 million AND they just beat the Dolphins. SB win just seems to be a formality at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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