Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jetster

Can you win a Super Bowl paying your QB 25 Million?

Recommended Posts

With Matthew Stafford breaking the bank & making 27 million, if the Lions don't get to & win a Super Bowl this year, will they ever?

It seems that every team who has had to pony up big for their franchise QB can't get back to a Super Bowl. We all know that Brady gives a home town discount, Matt Ryan is also in that realm @ 20 million. Derek Carr is getting 25 million, same as Andrew Luck & Brees. The teams surrounding Luck & Brees are swiss cheese. 

Eli Manning (horrible oline) got paid averaging 21 million, Joe Flacco got paid & that's the end of the Ravens, Big Ben (22 mil), Steelers problem has been the Pats kicking their azz,lol, Wilson got paid & now he's lucky he can run playing behind awful olines, Cam got paid (13 mill cap hit the year they went to the Bowl but it went up to 20 million in 2016.  Palmer in zona( 21 mill  horrible oline.)

Oakland is now in the same boat as the Lions, how do you pay Khalil Mack? or Amari Cooper, or keep that Oline together? There are only 2 Qbs in this league who can do more with less & that's Brady & Rogers, 20 mill & 22 mill respectively.

This is the question that has to be asked when we talk about free agents like Luck or Cousins. You sign those guys your window is SMALL before contracts come due for other cornerstone players on your team. Its not easy to win a Super Bowl even with a great QB, Rogers has 1, the 2010 season. Its freaking 7 years ago. He's another guy who signed a huge contract & now runs for his life or the Pack defense cant get off of the field. He signed his big deal in 2013, 2 years after winning a Bowl (22 mill) & they haven't been back. Now, talk of his new contract for 2018 has him in range at 30 million a year. There is no way in hell at 30 million the Packers will be able to surround Rogers with enough good players to win a Super Bowl. This is a team with Jordy Nelson, Devonte Adams, Montgomery, Randall Cobb. So, here's another team with maybe a 2 year window, this year & next (Matthews, Cobb, Nelson, Clinton Dix, Montgomery, contract come up in 2019, Devonte Adams (2018).

Just looking at this it tells me the best chance of getting to & winning a Super Bowl is to hit on a draft pick & win 1 in his 1st 5 years. I'm sure Maccagnon is well aware of these stats. Its really interesting. 

So, other than Tom Brady, not one franchise QB AFTER getting a new contract paying above 20 million has won a Super Bowl. By the way, the best all around team in the NFL is the Kansas City Chiefs, Alex Smith comes in at 17 million but KC can cut him after this year with only 3.6 million dead money.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Registered members do not see this ad. Click here to create your free account today.
Registered members do not see this ad. Click here to create your free account today.
4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Draft one ready to start and you get 5-6 years to win one.

It looks like its the best path to take, there's only 1 Tom Brady giving home town discounts. None of these other QBs or probably never in history will be married to someone who makes more money than some small countries like Giselle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

It looks like its the best path to take, there's only 1 Tom Brady giving home town discounts. None of these other QBs or probably never in history will be married to someone who makes more money than some small countries like Giselle.

I thought the same thing in the Andrew Luck "what it" thread. By the time you pay these guys nothing left for a supporting cast. Like at all! Most glaring was Flacco and Baltimore. He wins the big game, gets paid and they turn the rest of the roster into a practice squad.  Think we might see and era were the QB's salary is exempt for the cap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

League might have to do something. Gonna be interesting to see how things shake out when Brady retires. I'm sure Steelers fans are just like Jet fans regarding Brady,lol. Funny if Brady retires & Big Bens got nothing left. I cant stand Mike Tomlin so I find it quite humerous that Brady & Belichick have the Steelers number. They don't just beat them, they blow them out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

League might have to do something. Gonna be interesting to see how things shake out when Brady retires. I'm sure Steelers fans are just like Jet fans regarding Brady,lol. Funny if Brady retires & Big Bens got nothing left. I cant stand Mike Tomlin so I find it quite humerous that Brady & Belichick have the Steelers number. They don't just beat them, they blow them out.

The league should do something.  The players should do something.  Paying the QB all that money means the other players, who are the ones getting CTE, don't get paid.  There should be a QB salary cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, varjet said:

The league should do something.  The players should do something.  Paying the QB all that money means the other players, who are the ones getting CTE, don't get paid.  There should be a QB salary cap.

Id love to see a QB come out, represent himself so he doesn't have to pay an agent & basically like Brady just take a little off the top for the team. Look at Brees, he sits there on the sideline watching his defense give up 600 yards because he was so f*cking greedy hes like 25% of the cap. With Brees making what he is, Sean Payton doesn't have a chance in hell to get to another Super Bowl, or maybe another playoff game,lol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Draft one ready to start and you get 5-6 years to win one.

This is right on the money.  This is also why it's imperative that the Jets get one of the top two picks in next years draft - increase their odds of picking a productive day 1 QB.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can, you just need to draft well, coach well, and bargain hunt in FA. Supplement a talented team and get the most out of the guys you have without paying through the roof for your non-essentials.

Easier said than done, of course, but the stud QB is the "must" in this scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Eh. Don't those teams still end up getting in the playoffs more often then not? I'll take my chances. 

Not one of them has won another Super Bowl after their contract extention except Brady & he's at the low end 20 million but he's the best QB, with the best coach. We'll see who wins the Bowl this year. The issue is not when you come out of camp, the issue is after 16 games, if you have any type of serious injuries outside of the QB you have so little depth the team is too depleted to compete for a Super Bowl. That is the one thing the Patriots have done better than any other team & that is why they are so selective with contract extensions. This team traded Chandler Jones and Collins. With the Hightower injury, jettisoning Collins isn't looking to good but like every year with Brady they are at 2-1 (easily could have been 1-2). 

Macc was very smart to get something for Richardson. Build a solid foundation & pray you luck into a QB to pull it all together. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Eh. Don't those teams still end up getting in the playoffs more often then not? I'll take my chances. 

Yeah.  I think this thread is blowing things a bit out of proportion. 

How many QBs won a super bowl on their rookie deal?  Wilson did, but historic D and he was an older rookie that went late because he is short.  Flacco won as his deal expired (5th year).  Rodgers had already signed what was then a pretty huge deal. Eli won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Likewise, Roethlisberger won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Those guys were signing 6 year deals.  Brady won the first couple on a crazy cheap 6th round rookie deal, but while he is a bargain, he is still making serious money for over a decade.  None of the rest were won on rookie deals - Peyton, Brees- go back to Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and you have covered the "modern era" aka femme-no-hit-D-outlawed football.

16 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Not one of them has won another Super Bowl after their contract extention except Brady & he's at the low end 20 million but he's the best QB, with the best coach. We'll see who wins the Bowl this year. The issue is not when you come out of camp, the issue is after 16 games, if you have any type of serious injuries outside of the QB you have so little depth the team is too depleted to compete for a Super Bowl. That is the one thing the Patriots have done better than any other team & that is why they are so selective with contract extensions. This team traded Chandler Jones and Collins. With the Hightower injury, jettisoning Collins isn't looking to good but like every year with Brady they are at 2-1 (easily could have been 1-2). 

Macc was very smart to get something for Richardson. Build a solid foundation & pray you luck into a QB to pull it all together. 

 

That is not true.  Eli, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Brady all won on their extensions.  It is valid to question what the max is that you can pay a QB and still afford a team, but remember when Eli and Ben were making $12M the cap was considerably lower. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yeah.  I think this thread is blowing things a bit out of proportion. 

How many QBs won a super bowl on their rookie deal?  Wilson did, but historic D and he was an older rookie that went late because he is short.  Flacco won as his deal expired (5th year).  Rodgers had already signed what was then a pretty huge deal. Eli won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Likewise, Roethlisberger won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Those guys were signing 6 year deals.  Brady won the first couple on a crazy cheap 6th round rookie deal, but while he is a bargain, he is still making serious money for over a decade.  None of the rest were won on rookie deals - Peyton, Brees- go back to Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and you have covered the "modern era" aka femme-no-hit-D-outlawed football.

That is not true.  Eli, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Brady all won on their extensions.  It is valid to question what the max is that you can pay a QB and still afford a team, but remember when Eli and Ben were making $12M the cap was considerably lower. 

plus, these qbs have dominated the playoff landscape in the past decade plus.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yeah.  I think this thread is blowing things a bit out of proportion. 

How many QBs won a super bowl on their rookie deal?  Wilson did, but historic D and he was an older rookie that went late because he is short.  Flacco won as his deal expired (5th year).  Rodgers had already signed what was then a pretty huge deal. Eli won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Likewise, Roethlisberger won his first on his rookie deal and his second after a big extension.  Those guys were signing 6 year deals.  Brady won the first couple on a crazy cheap 6th round rookie deal, but while he is a bargain, he is still making serious money for over a decade.  None of the rest were won on rookie deals - Peyton, Brees- go back to Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and you have covered the "modern era" aka femme-no-hit-D-outlawed football.

That is not true.  Eli, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Brady all won on their extensions.  It is valid to question what the max is that you can pay a QB and still afford a team, but remember when Eli and Ben were making $12M the cap was considerably lower. 

Brady can't be part of this discussion, we all know he's taken way less than his talent. I think your wrong with the $ amount & % of cap space with Eli, Ben, Rogers. I'll take a peak what they were making in their Super Bowl years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Brady can't be part of this discussion, we all know he's taken way less than his talent. I think your wrong with the $ amount & % of cap space with Eli, Ben, Rogers. I'll take a peak what they were making in their Super Bowl years.

This is kind of a strange argument.  You said: 

34 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Not one of them has won another Super Bowl after their contract extention except Brady

That is simply false.  I pointed that out and you start talking about $amount and %cap space.  It is simple.  Roethlisberger was extended in 2008.  Eli's rookie deal was up before 2011, Rodgers was into a big deal.  Peyton and Brees were well off their rookie deals and with other teams.  Peek all you want.  As I said, it is valid to question how much you can get away with paying them, it does not change the fact that they were on extensions and ones considered big at that. 

*BTW, taking Brady out of the conversation negates things a bit since he has won 5 of the past 16 super bowls. Throwing out 30% can kind of skew data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brady taking a discount is a myth.  He is compensated by the franchise through other ways via loopholes on the fringe of the rules... like everything else they do.

Brady's bottled water company has the rights for Gillette Stadium.  Every event there, EVERY EVENT and not just every game, sells his water.  Bottled water is a racket at Walmart at $5 for a 24 pack.  When you're charging $4 for a single bottle... it should be criminal.  Worth 10s of millions.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Brady can't be part of this discussion, we all know he's taken way less than his talent. I think your wrong with the $ amount & % of cap space with Eli, Ben, Rogers. I'll take a peak what they were making in their Super Bowl years.

Read my above post... Brady does not take less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another way to look at this is that a team MUST hit on their first round draft picks and get value from those contracts for 5 years.  

If you have to spend on a QB, then hopefully you can save on the LT, WR, Edge and CB that are still on rookie contracts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Brady taking a discount is a myth.  He is compensated by the franchise through other ways via loopholes on the fringe of the rules... like everything else they do.

Brady's bottled water company has the rights for Gillette Stadium.  Every event there, EVERY EVENT and not just every game, sells his water.  Bottled water is a racket at Walmart at $5 for a 24 pack.  When you're charging $4 for a single bottle... it should be criminal.  Worth 10s of millions.

 

I thought they were selling tap water at Gillette? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is kind of a strange argument.  You said: 

That is simply false.  I pointed that out and you start talking about $amount and %cap space.  It is simple.  Roethlisberger was extended in 2008.  Eli's rookie deal was up before 2011, Rodgers was into a big deal.  Peyton and Brees were well off their rookie deals and with other teams.  Peek all you want.  As I said, it is valid to question how much you can get away with paying them, it does not change the fact that they were on extensions and ones considered big at that. 

*BTW, taking Brady out of the conversation negates things a bit since he has won 5 of the past 16 super bowls. Throwing out 30% can kind of skew data.

You are so wrong. QB salaries have skyrocketed since Eli & Big Ben signed there extensions. Eli made 14 mill in 2010 & Big Ben made 11.6 mill in 2011. The salary cap hasn't gone up as fast the QB salaries recently not even close! So in 7 years Staffords salary is 15 million more than Big Bens was was the Steelers made the Super Bowl in 2011. More than DOUBLE what Ben made in 2011.

Like Apples & Oranges.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

You are so wrong. QB salaries have skyrocketed since Eli & Big Ben signed there extensions. Eli made 14 mill in 2010 & Big Ben made 11.6 mill in 2011. The salary cap hasn't gone up as fast the QB salaries recently not even close! So in 7 years Staffords salary is 15 million more than Big Bens was was the Steelers made the Super Bowl in 2011. More than DOUBLE what Ben made.

Once again, you are claiming I am wrong when I am not wrong.  It is a fact, THEY ALL WON THE SUPER BOWL AFTER THEIR EXTENSIONS.  You can claim that it isn't the same thing, and it may not be, but I am still not wrong.  As I said, the discussion is valid, but the idea that QBs are winning on their rookie deals is not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The salary cap in 2011 was $120M.  It is now $167M.  Stafford is currently under 10% of the team's cap, his deal never goes above 16%.  You may be correct that these guys are making a slightly higher percentage of the cap than previously, but it is not as big a change as you are claiming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I thought they were selling tap water at Gillette? 

I heard the same thing... but only after they ran out of Brady's bottles.  Question is, did Brady get commissions from those sales too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Once again, you are claiming I am wrong when I am not wrong.  It is a fact, THEY ALL WON THE SUPER BOWL AFTER THEIR EXTENSIONS.  You can claim that it isn't the same thing, and it may not be, but I am still not wrong.  As I said, the discussion is valid, but the idea that QBs are winning on their rookie deals is not. 

You need to read my posts more clearly. Below is the exact quote from my 1st post in this thread.

"So, other than Tom Brady, not one franchise QB AFTER getting a new contract paying above 20 million"

I know that you follow me trying to poke holes in my theories regarding the NFL but the entire reason for this post was regarding the extroidinary salary increases for franchise QBs hurting the chances of having a balanced team and hurting your chances of winning a Super Bowl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jetster said:

You need to read my posts more clearly. Below is the exact quote from my 1st post in this thread.

"So, other than Tom Brady, not one franchise QB AFTER getting a new contract paying above 20 million"

I know that you follow me trying to poke holes in my theories regarding the NFL but the entire reason for this post was regarding the extroidinary salary increases for franchise QBs hurting the chances of having a balanced team and hurting your chances of winning a Super Bowl.

I think you need to read your posts more clearly.  

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Not one of them has won another Super Bowl after their contract extention except Brady & he's at the low end 20 million but he's the best QB, with the best coach. We'll see who wins the Bowl this year. The issue is not when you come out of camp, the issue is after 16 games, if you have any type of serious injuries outside of the QB you have so little depth the team is too depleted to compete for a Super Bowl. That is the one thing the Patriots have done better than any other team & that is why they are so selective with contract extensions. This team traded Chandler Jones and Collins. With the Hightower injury, jettisoning Collins isn't looking to good but like every year with Brady they are at 2-1 (easily could have been 1-2). 

Macc was very smart to get something for Richardson. Build a solid foundation & pray you luck into a QB to pull it all together. 

 

That is what I responded to.  I quoted it and said it was incorrect.  If you want to jump 10 posts up cause you said something different it doesn't change the facts.  Maybe if you acknowledged that was incorrect and indicated what you actually meant instead of jumping up and down saying "You're wrong!" and moving the target I wouldn't be poking holes in your theory.  On multiple times I have said that there is validity in determining just how much cap can be spent on a QB. The reason I pointed it out is because not many QBs are winning on their rookie deals either, so the draft one and play him and draft another plan isn't likely to work either. 

IMO the percentage goes up as the cap goes up because QBs demand/deserve more but there is certainly a point of diminishing returns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×