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Lawrence Thomas Officially Makes Switch to Fullback

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I get not having inexperienced young Petty/Hackenberg throwing to an inexperienced young WR trio of Anderson-Stewart-Hansen. What they're doing is absolutely pointless unless the team is a realistic contender (or unless health issues we're unaware of are influencing the decisions). They are not realistic contenders, and the injury report suggests they're all healthy, so I'm not a fan of this combo.

I think we might just squeeze out a few more EARLY wins with this present combo.  I know it's a lot to ask given his track record but if we lose a few more early ones then I'll resume my Bowles hate if he sticks with these QB/WR preferences.  

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1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

I think we might just squeeze out a few more EARLY wins with this present combo.  I know it's a lot to ask given his track record but if we lose a few more early ones then I'll resume my Bowles hate if he sticks with these QB/WR preferences.  

At some point we're not leaving enough games for evaluation (let alone time to evaluate 2 QBs) in enough real games. Pretty much all the QBs in the league - even most of the bad ones - have enough talent to get hot for a few weeks. What we want to see is how they seem over a longer period, enough time to show he can bounce back or if that's just what he is; then have the time remaining to give the same opportunity to the next guy up.

With McCown already starting week 5 at a minimum, the entirety of that opportunity is now limited to 11 games for live-action evaluation of the 2 of them. It's probably already too late to do that, and soon enough it'll be too late to truly live-action evaluate even 1 of them.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

At some point we're not leaving enough games for evaluation (let alone time to evaluate 2 QBs) in enough real games. Pretty much all the QBs in the league - even most of the bad ones - have enough talent to get hot for a few weeks. What we want to see is how they seem over a longer period, enough time to show he can bounce back or if that's just what he is; then have the time remaining to give the same opportunity to the next guy up.

With McCown already starting week 5 at a minimum, the entirety of that opportunity is now limited to 11 games for live-action evaluation of the 2 of them. It's probably already too late to do that, and soon enough it'll be too late to truly live-action evaluate even 1 of them.

At this point it seems likely they have little interest or concern over evaluating Hack this season, which is tough to hold against the coaches.  Petty on the other hand, is a different question.  They had a look at him last season, and clearly were not impressed, so my guess is they'll be in no rush to get him out there, but it will happen eventually.  In all likelihood, they've already conceded to not having a future starter.

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4 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

At this point it seems likely they have little interest or concern over evaluating Hack this season, which is tough to hold against the coaches.  Petty on the other hand, is a different question.  They had a look at him last season, and clearly were not impressed, so my guess is they'll be in no rush to get him out there, but it will happen eventually.  In all likelihood, they've already conceded to not having a future starter.

My thought on using last season as a fair evaluation of Petty is 'hogwash!'.  Decker, Marshall, even Mangold were clearly in Fitz's jock and weren't going to put forth maximum effort for Petty once Fitz was benched and the season was lost.  I believe that if you give him a shot with this roster, you might see something very different.  I find Bowles' comment that they are using last season's performance to close the book on Petty to be one of the biggest black marks against him as a HC, particularly in light of his more-than-solid preseason performance this year.  

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41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

At some point we're not leaving enough games for evaluation (let alone time to evaluate 2 QBs) in enough real games. Pretty much all the QBs in the league - even most of the bad ones - have enough talent to get hot for a few weeks. What we want to see is how they seem over a longer period, enough time to show he can bounce back or if that's just what he is; then have the time remaining to give the same opportunity to the next guy up.

With McCown already starting week 5 at a minimum, the entirety of that opportunity is now limited to 11 games for live-action evaluation of the 2 of them. It's probably already too late to do that, and soon enough it'll be too late to truly live-action evaluate even 1 of them.

I think that if we eke out another win or two then Bowles won't put Petty in (I agree with Bleeding Green that Hack is not on the radar screen yet again) until we are mathematically eliminated (maybe game 13 or 14) so we all must brace ourselves for that.  So then, no matter what, we are drafting a 1st round QB next year and we will be beginning our QB evaluations afresh.  I think this is just the way Bowles (most HC's in his position) rolls.  

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Remaining games: Browns, Pats, Dolphins, Falcons, Bills, Buccaneers, Panthers, Chiefs, Broncos, Saints, Chargers, Pats?

Put Petty/Hack in now - the next 3 games are against weak defenses (although Pats can always turn that around). Later on in the year the last 8 games in the season they are playing 5/6 teams that are going to be shooting for the playoffs. Now we have 3 games against bad teams and the Pats that still haven't figured out their D.

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59 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

At this point it seems likely they have little interest or concern over evaluating Hack this season, which is tough to hold against the coaches.  Petty on the other hand, is a different question.  They had a look at him last season, and clearly were not impressed, so my guess is they'll be in no rush to get him out there, but it will happen eventually.  In all likelihood, they've already conceded to not having a future starter.

I was talking about evaluating as a future #2 not a future starter. I've already accepted neither are the future starter, or anyway neither is close enough to preclude us from taking the best QB we can get our hands on in the 2018 draft. I worry not about a situation where we say, "Oh no, the Jets have 2 young franchise QBs!"

Say, for instance, Petty doesn't look like starter material, but looks like he could be like a Kellen Clemens II who could aptly (and relatively cheaply) fill the backup role for the next 5-7 years. And there's always the possibility that time just makes him a better QB who might be a late bloomer into a starter closer to age 30. But even as just the backup alone: that's not winning us a SB directly, but it could indirectly help by preventing us from unnecessarily sinking more resources into the #2 QB slot (for someone no better, and maybe even worse).

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On 10/5/2017 at 1:53 PM, LIJetsFan said:

I think that if we eke out another win or two then Bowles won't put Petty in (I agree with Bleeding Green that Hack is not on the radar screen yet again) until we are mathematically eliminated (maybe game 13 or 14) so we all must brace ourselves for that.  So then, no matter what, we are drafting a 1st round QB next year and we will be beginning our QB evaluations afresh.  I think this is just the way Bowles (most HC's in his position) rolls.  

There's little that either of them could show me in roughly half a season that could get me to say, "Nah, let's not draft a QB early. Petty looked good for a few weeks in December." 

Even if he came in and looked good, still take one and take one early at that. Like I said in the post above this, I worry not about a situation where we say, "Oh no, the Jets have 2 young franchise QBs!"

This is a team that - twice, recently - taken a slower, DT-sized DE with our first round pick, despite already having 2+ such young players on the team. So having 2 young QBs doesn't concern me. Their careers are 10-15 years long so there are plenty of future drafts to come and build a winner around one of them.

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21 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I get not having inexperienced young Petty/Hackenberg throwing to an inexperienced young WR trio of Anderson-Stewart-Hansen. What they're doing is absolutely pointless unless the team is a realistic contender (or unless health issues we're unaware of are influencing the decisions). They are not realistic contenders, and the injury report suggests they're all healthy, so I'm not a fan of this combo.

They're letting the team mature around the vets and working them in slowly, that's not pointless.  

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On 10/4/2017 at 5:01 PM, LIJetsFan said:

Is it possible/probable that the 2016 vets were the REAL problem and that Bowles might actually turn out to be an ok HC?   I LOVE what this team has been doing recently.  This DL to FB move is just the latest example.  That includes starting McCown for now in order to let the rest of the offense find it's groove.  We shall see but atm I've feeling hopeful about Mac/Bowles.     

I agree, but just a few weeks ago they cut Thomas, so this was not part of some grand design.  So the question is are they more lucky than good?

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19 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

At this point it seems likely they have little interest or concern over evaluating Hack this season, which is tough to hold against the coaches.  Petty on the other hand, is a different question.  They had a look at him last season, and clearly were not impressed, so my guess is they'll be in no rush to get him out there, but it will happen eventually.  In all likelihood, they've already conceded to not having a future starter.

Yea, good evaluation on Petty the last 4 games of the year when there was nothing to play for and Marshall and the rest of the vets playing like they were really interested. Give him a real chance with the young guys. He did a pretty decent job in PS. I know he's probably not the final answer at that position, but it's a wasted season to not be playing Petty and Hack.

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18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I was talking about evaluating as a future #2 not a future starter. I've already accepted neither are the future starter, or anyway neither is close enough to preclude us from taking the best QB we can get our hands on in the 2018 draft. I worry not about a situation where we say, "Oh no, the Jets have 2 young franchise QBs!"

Say, for instance, Petty doesn't look like starter material, but looks like he could be like a Kellen Clemens II who could aptly (and relatively cheaply) fill the backup role for the next 5-7 years. And there's always the possibility that time just makes him a better QB who might be a late bloomer into a starter closer to age 30. But even as just the backup alone: that's not winning us a SB directly, but it could indirectly help by preventing us from unnecessarily sinking more resources into the #2 QB slot (for someone no better, and maybe even worse).

+1

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How do you walk into a locker room and say we won two in a row but we are going to make a switch at QB. How do you think all those players are going to react? You really believe you can make a QB change this week?

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On 10/5/2017 at 1:06 PM, Bleedin Green said:

At this point it seems likely they have little interest or concern over evaluating Hack this season, which is tough to hold against the coaches.  Petty on the other hand, is a different question.  They had a look at him last season, and clearly were not impressed, so my guess is they'll be in no rush to get him out there, but it will happen eventually.  In all likelihood, they've already conceded to not having a future starter.

I think MaccBowles deserve some double-sided credit, because they concluded that McCown was actually better than what he has shown with other teams.

I think their priority now is to win games and build a foundation for a successful team.  They are not playing for a draft pick.  

I also think that evaluating Petty/Hack or giving them playing time is also not a priority either.   They may have concluded that Hack is not worth that investment this year.  My guess is that they think Petty can be a back up.  

I think they are planning on going all in on a FA QB.  IF that is the case next year's QB is either FA/Petty/Hack or Pick/McC/Petty or Hack.  Next year is Petty's last year under contract.

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I think that people are acting like moving this guy to FB is some type of genius move when he has 1 catch and maybe 2-3 decent blocks in 2 weeks.  The guy is only playing about 20% of the snaps per week and he has not been any kind of "difference maker" so far.  

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7 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

They're letting the team mature around the vets and working them in slowly, that's not pointless.  

What are you talking about? Stewart, for example, is getting less time as the season's progressed.

Of all the things this season should be, it should represent a mulligan to find out who's a keeper and who's not, and which positions need to be addressed in 2018. We aren't going to learn that by starting 3 other teams' castoffs at QB and WR every game.

The season is going by, and there's already a lot less time for evaluation than there was a month ago. Or is each kid supposed to get just a few opportunities before we decide to go in another direction and burn a high draft pick and/or sink big $$$ in FA at that position?

We have 2 QBs who need to see the field. I'm fine with putting McCown out there if it's to further the development of the young WRs, or put the veteran WRs/RBs out there to further the development of the young QBs. This satisfies neither goal IMO.

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What are you talking about? Stewart, for example, is getting less time as the season's progressed.

Of all the things this season should be, it should represent a mulligan to find out who's a keeper and who's not, and which positions need to be addressed in 2018. We aren't going to learn that by starting 3 other teams' castoffs at QB and WR every game.

The season is going by, and there's already a lot less time for evaluation than there was a month ago. Or is each kid supposed to get just a few opportunities before we decide to go in another direction and burn a high draft pick and/or sink big $$$ in FA at that position?

We have 2 QBs who need to see the field. I'm fine with putting McCown out there if it's to further the development of the young WRs, or put the veteran WRs/RBs out there to further the development of the young QBs. This satisfies neither goal IMO.

Yeah, that is definitely the one thing for me.  I was never adamantly against McCown starting, but that was heavily dependent on the team considering him the best way to be able to evaluate the rest of the young roster.  If Hackenberg can't hit the broad side of the bus, you can understand why they don't trust him to evaluate anything else they have on offense.

I was also able to understand the Kearse acquisition, as he's still relatively young and was specifically designed to fill Enunwa's role, being a veteran player that seems capable of facing off against better coverage.  Forgetting even more/better targets for McCown, it was easy enough to argue that it helps keep mid-round rookies facing off against top CBs every week.  But now, they've taken it so far, that how little we're seeing of the young guys at WR does not really do much to support that idea.  At this point they've made it difficult on themselves, given that a number of these players have outplayed their expectations, which makes it likely this will continue on.  While I can understand the team's lack of interest in completely tanking, there's some sort of middle ground too, that allows for the evaluation of potential long-term future players.  It's one thing if the Jets are already convinced they don't have anywhere who fits the bill there at QB, but that argument doesn't fly for the rookies at other positions.

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On 10/4/2017 at 2:46 PM, Warfish said:

How long till he gets his first carry?

He will probably get some shots on short yardage in the end zone.  But they will be passes

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Just now, jack48 said:

He will probably get some shots on short yardage in the end zone.  But they will be passes--no one will cover him the first few times

 

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