Breer: The 2018 Veteran QB Market

[Mogglez]

55 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Could be the case with Carp if he becomes a deadline trade chip to add picks.

WR1 may not be on the roster, but nowadays, teams produce w/o one anyway.  If you have a few guys you can send out there to get some mismatches, you can win.

If ASJ and Stewart keep doing what they’re doing, those two and Robby will fall in to that category IMO. 

Then of course Bilal and for the longer-term, McGuire, who should be able to do that as well.

As much as I may get hell for it, I haven’t given up on Jalin Marshall either.  Could be a much better slot guy than Kerley over time.

Also, I don’t see any upgrades at safety being necessary?

Like Dbates just mentioned ASJ is due up for a contract next year so, like with Carp, we'll see.

I'm not in love with Bilal and it isn't because of talent.  Let's see if he can stay healthy.  I love McGuire.

I'm not holding my breath on Jalin Marshall.  Guy pops Adderall like candy, but can't focus enough to catch the ball.  His suspension just got finished and the Jets didn't hesitate to keep him inactive.  Guys like that don't project well, but who knows.

I think it's safe to say (lol) we're good at safety.

[NYJCAP2]

12 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Thanks.  I gotta catch up to him and Mayfield when I get home tonight.  Particularly Baker because of the upset.  Any insight on that guy too?

Please tell that me you are not even considering the thought of drafting Mayfield.

Falk as a developmental #2... sure I'd be on board with that.

[AFJF]

30 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Like Dbates just mentioned ASJ is due up for a contract next year so, like with Carp, we'll see.

I'm not in love with Bilal and it isn't because of talent.  Let's see if he can stay healthy.  I love McGuire.

I'm not holding my breath on Jalin Marshall.  Guy pops Adderall like candy, but can't focus enough to catch the ball.  His suspension just got finished and the Jets didn't hesitate to keep him inactive.  Guys like that don't project well, but who knows.

I think it's safe to say (lol) we're good at safety.

With $90 mil in cap room, I don’t think ASJ is going anywhere if he plays well this season.  Jets will pay him.

My main point was that this team has a lot of good young players who don’t need to be replaced, but as I said earlier, upgrades can obviously be made overall, but what team can’t say that?

Biggest issue aside from QB IMO is Mo.  Getting $18 mil to mail it in every week is a killer.  He should be gone this off-season.  Then, oddly enough, the Jets won’t have much proven talent in the D-line.  Seems like a strange thought.

 

 

[Greenseed4]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

Let it out. Let it all out. 

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Let it out. Let it all out. 

You should probably learn how to use the quote function properly before taunting others. 

Great retorts genius.  Enjoy that feel good win in Cleveland today you goober.

[adb280z]

13 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

The weaponz you're touting as the next big thing were all found in the third round or later.

Part of the reason they're doing well is the man under center throwing to them.  

Hill was drafted late due to his domestic violence arrest and getting kicked out of Oklahoma St.

[Greenseed4]

Just now, Mogglez said:

You should probably learn how to use the quote function properly before taunting others. 

Great retorts genius.  Enjoy that feel good win in Cleveland today.

Taunting? I'll quote you and your misguided anger how I see fit. 

I like how you've lumped me in a category without knowing sh*t about me; like I post all the time or something.  I don't. Cause dummies like you keep putting your opinions on pedastals and bad mouthing others for theirs. 

I'm ALSO on board with signing Garrapolo, I'd prefer him to a Smith actually. Ans I was pRosen before his great "comeback" against Tex A&M, after that, I saw a QB with sloppy footwork that made Ill-advised Hack passes that defenders simply didn't make plays on. But none of that mattered once we won last weekend. Cause with two wins going into the Browns, we're no longer racing to #1. 

If you think you're miserable now, wait until we've played ourselves out of drafting position to draft our "savior" and have to resort to a mid-tier rookie and McCown. Cause that's better. 

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Please tell that me you are not even considering the thought of drafting Mayfield.

Falk as a developmental #2... sure I'd be on board with that.

If it were up to me, Hack and Petty would be playing this entire year, and if they sucked as bad as we all thought they would, we'd be drafting Darnold or Rosen.  Unfortunately Todd Bowles happened and we've, once again, likely screwed ourselves out of a top pick.  That means it's time to start looking at the other names whether we like it or not.

I have the rest of my board as Falk, Mayfield, Rudolph at 3, 4, 5 respectively (2, 3, 4 if Darnold pulls his name out).  Falk has everything other than the cannon that teams covet, but he throws with excellent anticipation to compensate and has more than enough arm strength to play in the league.  He deserves to be first round pick.  If Watson was a 1st, Falk will absolutely be there when it's all said and done.

It's also time that people start taking Mayfield seriously too.  He's improved from an already ridiculous season last year, and if it wasn't for his 6'1 (we'll see) height, would be a sure fire first.  He plays very similar to Russell Wilson and will probably go in the 2nd, but could sneak in the 1st round as the draft nears.  People aren't going to make the same mistake they made on a guy like Wilson in 2012.  He grades out well against the blitz, has shown the ability to go through progressions, can play very efficiently from the pocket, has faced top competition with great success, and is doing this all after losing top tier talent to the NFL.  That isn't a fluke.  I'm getting tired of people saying they're scared of him because of Manziel.  He isn't Manziel.  Manziel was a drug-addicted alcoholic.  Mayfield has his priorities straight and his head on right.  The older guys (not saying you but there are some who hate him for being a "loud whipper snapper") better get used to kids with the cocky attitudes of Cam Newton, Rosen, Mayfield, etc.  A ton of the younger generation of QB prospects have this type of attitude about em.  It's just like when Namath came around.  If you don't like these guys, you're gonna hate guys like Jacob Eason and Shae Patterson in a year or 2. 

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Just caught up.  "Slow" start but, my goodness, did he respond well.  I want him.  I want him really bad.

Samesies 

 

Watched most of the OU game last night. I can't figure out how i feel about this Bakerfield fellow. He's throws with enough zip and accuracy that it's hard to overlook. He fires lots of eyebrow raising balls into tight windows... Yet there's a part of my brain that's always like "nope, too long". 3/4 of this game is taking place 3-5 seconds after the snap and you'll never have that luxury in the NFL. 

[Mogglez]

24 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Taunting? I'll quote you and your misguided anger how I see fit. 

I like how you've lumped me in a category without knowing sh*t about me; like I post all the time or something.  I don't. Cause dummies like you keep putting your opinions on pedastals and bad mouthing others for theirs. 

I'm ALSO on board with signing Garrapolo, I'd prefer him to a Smith actually. Ans I was pRosen before his great "comeback" against Tex A&M, after that, I saw a QB with sloppy footwork that made Ill-advised Hack passes that defenders simply didn't make plays on. But none of that mattered once we won last weekend. Cause with two wins going into the Browns, we're no longer racing to #1. 

If you think you're miserable now, wait until we've played ourselves out of drafting position to draft our "savior" and have to resort to a mid-tier rookie and McCown. Cause that's better. 

All I need to know about you to understand that you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about is watching you double down on this stupidity.

Rosen, for all his own "flaws", is universally considered to be the soundest mechanical QB prospect in a very long time.  Head to toe. His delivery and footwork are flawless.  Allen is universally considered to be a wreck in this department.  Stop talking about this stuff.  You're absolutely clueless.  You fell off the Rosen wagon after he, by himself, pulled one of the greatest comeback victories in college football history?  Bold strategy cotton, let me know how that pays off for you.  You tout Josh Allen but are calling Rosen out for making "Hack" throws?  Seriously?  You're wondering why I'm attacking your position on this?  It's an absolute mockery to anyone with a clue.

L. O.  L. 

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Samesies 

 

Watched most of the OU game last night. I can't figure out how i feel about this Bakerfield fellow. He's throws with enough zip and accuracy that it's hard to overlook. He fires lots of eyebrow raising balls into tight windows... Yet there's a part of my brain that's always like "nope, too long". 3/4 of this game is taking place 3-5 seconds after the snap and you'll never have that luxury in the NFL. 

Those are really the only questions I'm having too.

What I keep seeing though is him having to take longer than last year and I'm left wondering if the holding on to the ball is because of the aforementioned talent lost to the NFL.  Yesterdays game reaaaallly showed how hard it is for some of the guys he has to get open.  It really has been mostly his show this year at OU.  Everything else is there.  Like Falk, he would be an excellent fit for our WCO and I think a guy like Mayfield would develop quite well in that system.

Falk is so far ahead of everyone else as my #3 (maybe even #2 at this point) but I don't think Baker is a bad option either.

[Greenseed4]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

All I need to know about you to understand that you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about is watching you double down on this stupidity.

Rosen, for all his own "flaws", is universally considered to be the soundest mechanical QB prospect in a very long time.  Head to toe. His delivery and footwork are flawless.  Allen is universally considered to be a wreck in this department.  Stop talking about this stuff.  You're absolutely clueless.  You fell off the Rosen wagon after he, by himself, pulled one of the greatest comeback victories in college football history?  Bold strategy cotton, let me know how that pays off for you.  You tout Josh Allen but are calling Rosen out for making "Hack" throws?  Seriously?  You're wondering why I'm attacking your position on this?  It's an absolute mockery.

L. O.  L. 

"Universally", yes. 

Thats all I need to know about your position. Carry on. 

[Paradis]

Just now, Greenseed4 said:

"Universally", yes. 

Thats all I need to know about your position. Carry on. 

Dude, seriously. You said Rosen has nothing on Allen because footwork... 

 

[Greenseed4]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Dude, seriously. You said Rosen has nothing on Allen because footwork... 

 

I literally said, "he looks better to me".

To me. 

I don't like how Rosen doesn't keep his feet moving or step into throws. Conversely, Allen has beautiful footwork when dropping back.  But apparently I'm the only one in the universe who sees that, so I must be wrong. 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Greenseed4 said:

I literally said, "he looks better to me".

To me. 

I don't like how Rosen doesn't keep his feet moving or step into throws. Conversely, Allen has beautiful footwork when dropping back.  But apparently I'm the only one in the universe who sees that, so I must be wrong. 

Yeah you are.  Probably because it's, quite literally, the exact opposite for both of those guys.

[NYJCAP2]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

If it were up to me, Hack and Petty would be playing this entire year, and if they sucked as bad as we all thought they would, we'd be drafting Darnold or Rosen.  Unfortunately Todd Bowles happened and we've, once again, likely screwed ourselves out of a top pick.  That means it's time to start looking at the other names whether we like it or not.

I have the rest of my board as Falk, Mayfield, Rudolph at 3, 4, 5 respectively (2, 3, 4 if Darnold pulls his name out).  Falk has everything other than the cannon that teams covet, but he throws with excellent anticipation to compensate and has more than enough arm strength to play in the league.  He deserves to be first round pick.  If Watson was a 1st, Falk will absolutely be there when it's all said and done.

It's also time that people start taking Mayfield seriously too.  He's improved from an already ridiculous season last year, and if it wasn't for his 6'1 (we'll see) height, would be a sure fire first.  He plays very similar to Russell Wilson and will probably go in the 2nd, but could sneak in the 1st round as the draft nears.  People aren't going to make the same mistake they made on a guy like Wilson in 2012.  He grades out well against the blitz, has shown the ability to go through progressions, can play very efficiently from the pocket, has faced top competition with great success, and is doing this all after losing top tier talent to the NFL.  That isn't a fluke.  I'm getting tired of people saying they're scared of him because of Manziel.  He isn't Manziel.  Manziel was a drug-addicted alcoholic.  Mayfield has his priorities straight and his head on right.  The older guys (not saying you but there are some who hate him for being a "loud whipper snapper") better get used to kids with the cocky attitudes of Cam Newton, Rosen, Mayfield, etc.  A ton of the younger generation of QB prospects have this type of attitude about em.  It's just like when Namath came around.  If you don't like these guys, you're gonna hate guys like Jacob Eason and Shae Patterson in a year or 2. 

I like Falk but he's going to have trouble making all the throws especially in a division like ours.

Wasn't Mayfield arrested in February? He is a real good college player, his game does not equate to the NFL

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

I like Falk but he's going to have trouble making all the throws especially in a division like ours.

Wasn't Mayfield arrested in February? He is a real good college player, his game does not equate to the NFL

Falk will be fine. I firmly believe that.  His arm isn't as bad as many think it is.

Regarding Baker: Yes but everything was dropped to a misdemeanor just like Dak Prescott so I'm not too worried.  I think a lot of his game translates well, especially to a WCO, but there's plenty of ball left.  By year's end I think others here will see what I and many others are seeing.

[jetgreen13]

On 10/5/2017 at 9:56 AM, #27TheDominator said:

That dog could chew on it all season and you'd still be able to read it. 

looks like cutler does enough "chewing" for the both of them..

[Ecuadorian Jet]

On 10/5/2017 at 8:06 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

5. Alex Smith has been off the charts, completing 76.0 (!) percent of his passes for 1,067 yards, eight touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 124.2 rating for the perfect Chiefs. But … he does have the 10th pick in the 2017 draft, Patrick Mahomes, sitting behind him. Based on Smith’s play, and his affordable contract, this could well turn into a mid-2000s Chargers situation—where Brees held off Philip Rivers for two years before bolting for New Orleans. Either way, it’s worth monitoring.

Grab Alex Smith...sign him to a 3 year deal and draft a QB with the first pick.

[Adoni Beast]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Falk will be fine. I firmly believe that.  His arm isn't as bad as many think it is.

Regarding Baker: Yes but everything was dropped to a misdemeanor just like Dak Prescott so I'm not too worried.  I think a lot of his game translates well, especially to a WCO, but there's plenty of ball left.  By year's end I think others here will see what I and many others are seeing.

I think people exaggerate Falk's arm as well. But his anticipation and accuracy on his throws makes up for that. His vision of the field too is impressive, constantly scanning back and forth from receiver to receiver. 

[rangerous]

On 10/5/2017 at 12:43 PM, Beerfish said:

Beware the backup QB who does not play but plays on a good team with a good starter, especially on really really good teams, total fools gold.

Draft Qb's till we find one.  If this team was further along such as the jets were when they dumbly drafted sanchez then id say go for it get a proven vet.

i think that's the best option.  i am watching the jets and they now have a 3-2 record.  who woud've thunk it.  but then again they really haven't been tested by a really good team.  sure the doltfins were penciled in to make the playoffs and the jags just hung an L on the steelers but none of the teams they've played are serious contenders for the superbowl.  but we do see is a team that is very capable of winning against an average team and a good qb would do wonders.  mccown has played well but they aren't scaring anyone with his throwing ability and if they can draft a qb with some good ball sense they should be pretty decent next season.

of course if they beat the patsies.......

[Dinamite]

Lots of teams potentially in market to draft a QB next year.   Most likely (pending FA),  include 49rs/Redskins (the loser of Kirk cousins sweepstake),  Steelers, chargers, jets for starters.  I can see the Giants , browns (even with Kizer), bills, maybe even dolphins, Bengals and perhaps Ravens.

 

Anyway, it is possible that Falk and others who may normally go 2nd or mid rounds actually go in the first round given demand.   

 

Question for jets will be, do you a) Sell the farm for top pick (there will be competition); b ) draft a second  tier QB high (Falk in top 12?); c) sign a QB that is somewhat competent and take a chance on QB in later rounds in draft.

 

[Mogglez]

55 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Lots of teams potentially in market to draft a QB next year.   Most likely (pending FA),  include 49rs/Redskins (the loser of Kirk cousins sweepstake),  Steelers, chargers, jets for starters.  I can see the Giants , browns (even with Kizer), bills, maybe even dolphins, Bengals and perhaps Ravens.

 

Anyway, it is possible that Falk and others who may normally go 2nd or mid rounds actually go in the first round given demand.   

 

Question for jets will be, do you a) Sell the farm for top pick (there will be competition); b ) draft a second  tier QB high (Falk in top 12?); c) sign a QB that is somewhat competent and take a chance on QB in later rounds in draft.

 

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

[Dinamite]

16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

Right, that is the issue. I agree I think Rosen/Darnold are gone and teams up there will not trade out.   The question is whether the jets will even be able to "reach" for a QB prospect like Falk in first round with all other QB hungry teams this year.

 

 

[Dinamite]

19 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

I think you mentioned you had connections with the team.  Do you know who they like beyond Rosen?   That is, of jets had top 5 in mind, what would it look like?

[August]

This time next year Alex Smith will be our starting quarterback 

[Mogglez]

29 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

I think you mentioned you had connections with the team.  Do you know who they like beyond Rosen?   That is, of jets had top 5 in mind, what would it look like?

I thought about starting a thread on this a couple of days ago but I guess I'll just throw the nugget here.

If it went by who they have been doing the most homework on (so far) it would be:

- Josh Rosen

- Sam Darnold

- Luke Falk

- Baker Mayfield

- Mason Rudolph

- Jarrett Stidham

- Jake Browning (slowly creeping up, has drawn some Kirk Cousins comparisons)

- Josh Allen

- Lamar Jackson

In that order, for those who might be confused too.

*Edit*

Tagging @Paradis in this one because I'm sure he'd be interested to read it.

[Warfish]

Just now, August said:

This time next year Alex Smith will be our starting quarterback 

Would be the best QB we've had since Favre, or Chad.  But I don't think it'll happen.

Next year Petty or Hack will start (with the loser as the #2) with a rookie draft pick QB (Baker Mayfield) riding pine for a year.

Best and most likely outcome, Hack #1, Petty #2, Mayfield (or similar) #3.

[August]

Just now, Warfish said:

Would be the best QB we've had since Favre, or Chad.  But I don't think it'll happen.

Next year Petty or Hack will start (with the loser as the #2) with a rookie draft pick QB (Baker Mayfield) riding pine for a year.

Best and most likely outcome, Hack #1, Petty #2, Mayfield (or similar) #3.

If this years Jets team overachieve they may feel like they're a few pieces away from being competitive. They won't resign a 39 year old QB. They'll want a younger veteran that can be around for 3/4 years. If this team gave a damn about Petty he'd be playing right now instead of McCown.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, August said:

If this years Jets team overachieve they may feel like they're a few pieces away from being competitive.

Lol, no.

5 minutes ago, August said:

They won't resign a 39 year old QB.

Nope.

5 minutes ago, August said:

They'll want a younger veteran that can be around for 3/4 years. If this team gave a damn about Petty he'd be playing right now instead of McCown.

Perhaps.  I just don't see it.  Drafting a First Round QB, even in the middle of the round, resets the "time till fired" period for Macc somewhat.

[August]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Lol, no.

Nope.

Perhaps.  I just don't see it.  Drafting a First Round QB, even in the middle of the round, resets the "time till fired" period for Macc somewhat.

I say these things based on past history. If we somehow go 8-8 the Jets may be inclined to go get a veteran quarterback like a Alex Smith. It's not far fetched at all. Then that can give Mac an excuse to stick with Hackenberg and hope that by the time he's 25/26 he'll be ready to play. Being competitive in the NY market means something. And as long as they're competitive with a few 1st round and 2nd round exits Mac's job will be secure. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, August said:

I say these things based on past history. If we somehow go 8-8 the Jets may be inclined to go get a veteran quarterback like a Alex Smith. It's not far fetched at all. Then that can give Mac an excuse to stick with Hackenberg and hope that by the time he's 25/26 he'll be ready to play. Being competitive in the NY market means something. And as long as they're competitive with a few 1st round and 2nd round exits Mac's job will be secure. 

It's not impossible, I agree.

[Dinamite]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I thought about starting a thread on this a couple of days ago but I guess I'll just throw the nugget here.

If it went by who they have been doing the most homework on (so far) it would be:

Josh Rosen

Sam Darnold

Luke Falk

Baker Mayfield

Mason Rudolph

Jarrett Stidham

Jake Browning 

Josh Allen

Lamar Jackson

Thanks.  That is very interesting information.  I noticed the QB from northwestern that some are high on is not there.

[The Crimson King]

Maybe Eli Manning will be available after he season if they sit him for that talented young kid Smith they have waiting in the wings and he does well enough to take over the starting role

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Thanks.  That is very interesting information.  I noticed the QB from northwestern that some are high on is not there.

You'd be correct in noticing that.

Clayton Thorson for those out of that loop.

He's a guy who might rise as the off-season processes begin but not many teams are thinking about him up there with the rest of those guys just yet.