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Breer: The 2018 Veteran QB Market

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

If it were up to me, Hack and Petty would be playing this entire year, and if they sucked as bad as we all thought they would, we'd be drafting Darnold or Rosen.  Unfortunately Todd Bowles happened and we've, once again, likely screwed ourselves out of a top pick.  That means it's time to start looking at the other names whether we like it or not.

I have the rest of my board as Falk, Mayfield, Rudolph at 3, 4, 5 respectively (2, 3, 4 if Darnold pulls his name out).  Falk has everything other than the cannon that teams covet, but he throws with excellent anticipation to compensate and has more than enough arm strength to play in the league.  He deserves to be first round pick.  If Watson was a 1st, Falk will absolutely be there when it's all said and done.

It's also time that people start taking Mayfield seriously too.  He's improved from an already ridiculous season last year, and if it wasn't for his 6'1 (we'll see) height, would be a sure fire first.  He plays very similar to Russell Wilson and will probably go in the 2nd, but could sneak in the 1st round as the draft nears.  People aren't going to make the same mistake they made on a guy like Wilson in 2012.  He grades out well against the blitz, has shown the ability to go through progressions, can play very efficiently from the pocket, has faced top competition with great success, and is doing this all after losing top tier talent to the NFL.  That isn't a fluke.  I'm getting tired of people saying they're scared of him because of Manziel.  He isn't Manziel.  Manziel was a drug-addicted alcoholic.  Mayfield has his priorities straight and his head on right.  The older guys (not saying you but there are some who hate him for being a "loud whipper snapper") better get used to kids with the cocky attitudes of Cam Newton, Rosen, Mayfield, etc.  A ton of the younger generation of QB prospects have this type of attitude about em.  It's just like when Namath came around.  If you don't like these guys, you're gonna hate guys like Jacob Eason and Shae Patterson in a year or 2. 

I like Falk but he's going to have trouble making all the throws especially in a division like ours.

Wasn't Mayfield arrested in February? He is a real good college player, his game does not equate to the NFL

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5 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

I like Falk but he's going to have trouble making all the throws especially in a division like ours.

Wasn't Mayfield arrested in February? He is a real good college player, his game does not equate to the NFL

Falk will be fine. I firmly believe that.  His arm isn't as bad as many think it is.

Regarding Baker: Yes but everything was dropped to a misdemeanor just like Dak Prescott so I'm not too worried.  I think a lot of his game translates well, especially to a WCO, but there's plenty of ball left.  By year's end I think others here will see what I and many others are seeing.

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On 10/5/2017 at 9:56 AM, #27TheDominator said:

That dog could chew on it all season and you'd still be able to read it. 

Kristin+Cavallari+Jay+Cutler+Walk+Flips+

looks like cutler does enough "chewing" for the both of them..

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On 10/5/2017 at 8:06 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

5. Alex Smith has been off the charts, completing 76.0 (!) percent of his passes for 1,067 yards, eight touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 124.2 rating for the perfect Chiefs. But … he does have the 10th pick in the 2017 draft, Patrick Mahomes, sitting behind him. Based on Smith’s play, and his affordable contract, this could well turn into a mid-2000s Chargers situation—where Brees held off Philip Rivers for two years before bolting for New Orleans. Either way, it’s worth monitoring.

Grab Alex Smith...sign him to a 3 year deal and draft a QB with the first pick.

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3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Falk will be fine. I firmly believe that.  His arm isn't as bad as many think it is.

Regarding Baker: Yes but everything was dropped to a misdemeanor just like Dak Prescott so I'm not too worried.  I think a lot of his game translates well, especially to a WCO, but there's plenty of ball left.  By year's end I think others here will see what I and many others are seeing.

I think people exaggerate Falk's arm as well. But his anticipation and accuracy on his throws makes up for that. His vision of the field too is impressive, constantly scanning back and forth from receiver to receiver. 

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On 10/5/2017 at 12:43 PM, Beerfish said:

Beware the backup QB who does not play but plays on a good team with a good starter, especially on really really good teams, total fools gold.

Draft Qb's till we find one.  If this team was further along such as the jets were when they dumbly drafted sanchez then id say go for it get a proven vet.

i think that's the best option.  i am watching the jets and they now have a 3-2 record.  who woud've thunk it.  but then again they really haven't been tested by a really good team.  sure the doltfins were penciled in to make the playoffs and the jags just hung an L on the steelers but none of the teams they've played are serious contenders for the superbowl.  but we do see is a team that is very capable of winning against an average team and a good qb would do wonders.  mccown has played well but they aren't scaring anyone with his throwing ability and if they can draft a qb with some good ball sense they should be pretty decent next season.

of course if they beat the patsies.......

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Lots of teams potentially in market to draft a QB next year.   Most likely (pending FA),  include 49rs/Redskins (the loser of Kirk cousins sweepstake),  Steelers, chargers, jets for starters.  I can see the Giants , browns (even with Kizer), bills, maybe even dolphins, Bengals and perhaps Ravens.

 

Anyway, it is possible that Falk and others who may normally go 2nd or mid rounds actually go in the first round given demand.   

 

Question for jets will be, do you a) Sell the farm for top pick (there will be competition); b ) draft a second  tier QB high (Falk in top 12?); c) sign a QB that is somewhat competent and take a chance on QB in later rounds in draft.

 

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55 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Lots of teams potentially in market to draft a QB next year.   Most likely (pending FA),  include 49rs/Redskins (the loser of Kirk cousins sweepstake),  Steelers, chargers, jets for starters.  I can see the Giants , browns (even with Kizer), bills, maybe even dolphins, Bengals and perhaps Ravens.

 

Anyway, it is possible that Falk and others who may normally go 2nd or mid rounds actually go in the first round given demand.   

 

Question for jets will be, do you a) Sell the farm for top pick (there will be competition); b ) draft a second  tier QB high (Falk in top 12?); c) sign a QB that is somewhat competent and take a chance on QB in later rounds in draft.

 

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

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16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

Right, that is the issue. I agree I think Rosen/Darnold are gone and teams up there will not trade out.   The question is whether the jets will even be able to "reach" for a QB prospect like Falk in first round with all other QB hungry teams this year.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I'd love nothing more than to do options A or B, but they're not gonna happen.  Cleveland isn't trading the pick this time around (they'll take Rosen) and demand for QBs will almost guarantee that Darnold (if he declares) and Falk will be gone as well.

I think you mentioned you had connections with the team.  Do you know who they like beyond Rosen?   That is, of jets had top 5 in mind, what would it look like?

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29 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

I think you mentioned you had connections with the team.  Do you know who they like beyond Rosen?   That is, of jets had top 5 in mind, what would it look like?

I thought about starting a thread on this a couple of days ago but I guess I'll just throw the nugget here.

If it went by who they have been doing the most homework on (so far) it would be:

- Josh Rosen

- Sam Darnold

- Luke Falk

- Baker Mayfield

- Mason Rudolph

- Jarrett Stidham

- Jake Browning (slowly creeping up, has drawn some Kirk Cousins comparisons)

- Josh Allen

- Lamar Jackson

In that order, for those who might be confused too.

*Edit*

Tagging @Paradis in this one because I'm sure he'd be interested to read it.

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Just now, August said:

This time next year Alex Smith will be our starting quarterback 

Would be the best QB we've had since Favre, or Chad.  But I don't think it'll happen.

Next year Petty or Hack will start (with the loser as the #2) with a rookie draft pick QB (Baker Mayfield) riding pine for a year.

Best and most likely outcome, Hack #1, Petty #2, Mayfield (or similar) #3.

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Just now, Warfish said:

Would be the best QB we've had since Favre, or Chad.  But I don't think it'll happen.

Next year Petty or Hack will start (with the loser as the #2) with a rookie draft pick QB (Baker Mayfield) riding pine for a year.

Best and most likely outcome, Hack #1, Petty #2, Mayfield (or similar) #3.

If this years Jets team overachieve they may feel like they're a few pieces away from being competitive. They won't resign a 39 year old QB. They'll want a younger veteran that can be around for 3/4 years. If this team gave a damn about Petty he'd be playing right now instead of McCown.

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5 minutes ago, August said:

If this years Jets team overachieve they may feel like they're a few pieces away from being competitive.

Lol, no.

5 minutes ago, August said:

They won't resign a 39 year old QB.

Nope.

5 minutes ago, August said:

They'll want a younger veteran that can be around for 3/4 years. If this team gave a damn about Petty he'd be playing right now instead of McCown.

Perhaps.  I just don't see it.  Drafting a First Round QB, even in the middle of the round, resets the "time till fired" period for Macc somewhat.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Lol, no.

Nope.

Perhaps.  I just don't see it.  Drafting a First Round QB, even in the middle of the round, resets the "time till fired" period for Macc somewhat.

I say these things based on past history. If we somehow go 8-8 the Jets may be inclined to go get a veteran quarterback like a Alex Smith. It's not far fetched at all. Then that can give Mac an excuse to stick with Hackenberg and hope that by the time he's 25/26 he'll be ready to play. Being competitive in the NY market means something. And as long as they're competitive with a few 1st round and 2nd round exits Mac's job will be secure. 

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2 minutes ago, August said:

I say these things based on past history. If we somehow go 8-8 the Jets may be inclined to go get a veteran quarterback like a Alex Smith. It's not far fetched at all. Then that can give Mac an excuse to stick with Hackenberg and hope that by the time he's 25/26 he'll be ready to play. Being competitive in the NY market means something. And as long as they're competitive with a few 1st round and 2nd round exits Mac's job will be secure. 

It's not impossible, I agree.

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15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I thought about starting a thread on this a couple of days ago but I guess I'll just throw the nugget here.

If it went by who they have been doing the most homework on (so far) it would be:

Josh Rosen

Sam Darnold

Luke Falk

Baker Mayfield

Mason Rudolph

Jarrett Stidham

Jake Browning 

Josh Allen

Lamar Jackson

Thanks.  That is very interesting information.  I noticed the QB from northwestern that some are high on is not there.

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Maybe Eli Manning will be available after he season if they sit him for that talented young kid Smith they have waiting in the wings and he does well enough to take over the starting role

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10 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Thanks.  That is very interesting information.  I noticed the QB from northwestern that some are high on is not there.

You'd be correct in noticing that.

Clayton Thorson for those out of that loop.

He's a guy who might rise as the off-season processes begin but not many teams are thinking about him up there with the rest of those guys just yet.

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1 hour ago, August said:

If this years Jets team overachieve they may feel like they're a few pieces away from being competitive. They won't resign a 39 year old QB. They'll want a younger veteran that can be around for 3/4 years. If this team gave a damn about Petty he'd be playing right now instead of McCown.

Yep.  It's a total relapse of what happened last year.

2015- Over achieve with a JAG QB and veteran offense. Still no playoffs.

2016- under achieve because of minimal succes from prior year.  Scrap the whole plan and start over.

2017-Over achieve with ANOTHER JAG QB, playing your vet WRs. still have no hope for playoffs,

The best part is that (thus far) we didn't determine what we have in Petty, and haven't given Stewart or Hanson any real playing time at all.  So this offseason we'll be forced to address QB, LT, and WR1 and WR2 in one offseason.  We won't pick high enough for any real QB help but since there are no legit LTs that are pending free agents, we can use the 20th pick on our new tackle.  Then we can over pay Bradford or resign McCown to the same deal we gave Fitz last year.

2018- back to reality, team shows us that we are everything we thought they were.  But another year, another old JAG QB, and no sign of the playoffs in the foreseeable future.

Then the only thing we'll have to look forward too is that it will be an odd year where we over achieve and don't get eliminated from the playoffs until Christmas Eve.  Good times.

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I thought about starting a thread on this a couple of days ago but I guess I'll just throw the nugget here.

If it went by who they have been doing the most homework on (so far) it would be:

- Josh Rosen

- Sam Darnold

- Luke Falk

- Baker Mayfield

- Mason Rudolph

- Jarrett Stidham

- Jake Browning (slowly creeping up, has drawn some Kirk Cousins comparisons)

- Josh Allen

- Lamar Jackson

In that order, for those who might be confused too.

*Edit*

Tagging @Paradis in this one because I'm sure he'd be interested to read it.

Good looks on dropping these tidbits, it is appreciated and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Luke Falk has grown on me. Doesn't have a big arm, but has great accuracy, touch, vision, and pocket presence. Not sure if he'll be a 1st round QB (probably will by April), but I wouldn't be mad at all if they took him.

I've completely soured on Mason Rudolph. He screams Bryce Petty with size.

Still hoping for Lamar Jackson if we miss out on Rosen and Darnold, but from everything you've put out it seems that they aren't all that high on him so I won't even hold my breath

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Really like Jake Browning and have been following for the last year or so. Everyone said he was a benefactor of a  great receiver in Ross ( I think?)  but he lit it up nicely with a freshman this past week.  I believe he had some shoulder work in the off season but all the kid does is win. He is a game managing smart qb who can ball. A bit small but not terribly so. Keep an eye out on this kid.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3886812/jake-browning

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Pcola said:

Yep.  It's a total relapse of what happened last year.

2015- Over achieve with a JAG QB and veteran offense. Still no playoffs.

2016- under achieve because of minimal succes from prior year.  Scrap the whole plan and start over.

2017-Over achieve with ANOTHER JAG QB, playing your vet WRs. still have no hope for playoffs,

The best part is that (thus far) we didn't determine what we have in Petty, and haven't given Stewart or Hanson any real playing time at all.  So this offseason we'll be forced to address QB, LT, and WR1 and WR2 in one offseason.  We won't pick high enough for any real QB help but since there are no legit LTs that are pending free agents, we can use the 20th pick on our new tackle.  Then we can over pay Bradford or resign McCown to the same deal we gave Fitz last year.

2018- back to reality, team shows us that we are everything we thought they were.  But another year, another old JAG QB, and no sign of the playoffs in the foreseeable future.

Then the only thing we'll have to look forward too is that it will be an odd year where we over achieve and don't get eliminated from the playoffs until Christmas Eve.  Good times.

It's ok Darnold is going back to school, we can draft him 1st overall in 2019.

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Giants draft Davis Webb and he is an afterthought.  The Jets draft Hackenberg and Petty and they are "Stars of the Future!" 

Who says he is an afterthought?

Why would a lower value prospect stop a team from drafting a high value prospect if QB is an identified serious need?

This was what I argued last year:  We could have selected Watson, and selected another QB in 18' as needed/wanted if the season went sideways.

Now, we have Hack/Petty going into 18', and a 6-12 range draft slot.  

Skipping Watson for two safeties looks more like a major mistake the more Watson plays well, and the more we win games in 17'.

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On 10/8/2017 at 1:01 PM, NYJCAP2 said:

I like Falk but he's going to have trouble making all the throws especially in a division like ours.

Wasn't Mayfield arrested in February? He is a real good college player, his game does not equate to the NFL

That has been said of quite a few QB's in history.....

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