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KRL

Game Observations (CLE)

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13 hours ago, AFJF said:

Brant Boyer in his second season after being an assistant in Indy.  A lot of folks wanted him fired after year one but he didn't have much to work with.  Much improved unit this season.

That’s the key, he has good players now.

For what it’s worth, Mac does an excellent job with the back of the roster

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5 hours ago, Hael said:

its becoming very obvious that our front 4 is extremely overrated.  Wilkerson shows up on almost every play as being out of position, making a gap mistake or playing without effort.  Leonard Williams gets push, but he can't disengage and now that he's doubled he is easily moved.  Only 5 tackles this season and no sacks..  Not good enough.  We miss Richardson and Snacks badly.

The bright spot has been our secondary play this season.  Our Cbs have been way better than expected.  Of course they haven't gone up against elite competition yet, but still a pleasant surprise.  Our rookie safeties are as expected quite good but they do make rookie mistakes so its a mixed bag.  

We will be exposed against greater competition soon enough, but its been fun getting some wins.  Yea its probably going to hurt us long term, but for now 'you play the game to win'.

I know it was only one play, but I'm pretty sure Mo did a great job at the point of attack on the 4th down stop. Looked at the time like he got doubled but didn't get moved back at all, creating the pile that stopped Cleveland from advancing. (I also thought he might have got hurt on that play, looked like his leg got rolled over / trapped under him). Can't find the video now, if I can find it I'll post a link.

On the flip side, that late Cleveland drive for a TD, and especially the screen play, was unforgivable. Sloppy all round, Bowles needs to rip into them for that one - how many missed tackles due to arm tackling, or going for the "big hit" and whiffing? 

Overall though, I thought that the way Cleveland played was very much how we often lose games - mistakes, turnovers and missed chances early, late flurry of activity late on (plus bad time-out mgmt), leaving us with an onside kick/ mission impossible and we "just fall short". For once, however ugly it was, it was nice to be doing the "what if / if only ..." afterwards.

 

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10 minutes ago, KRL said:

So the "cute" thought by fans now is how we should strive to be CLE.  Really???  
A team whose culture is so saturated with losing that they couldn't help but give
yesterday's game to the Jets: 

- Two turnovers inside the 10 yard line that cost them 14 points
- Two missed FG's 
- A botched 4th down call in which they bypassed an opportunity to tie the game.
Then didn't get the first down, blew a crucial timeout then gave up a 96 yard TD
drive

I believe those screwups come from an organization who constantly looks to tank
and doesn't concern themselves with winning.  Getting a high #1 assures nothing
other than getting a ton of pre-draft coverage on ESPN.  It's about picking the
right QB then creating an environment to develop him.  Does CLE have that?  Hue
Jackson is supposed to be a "QB guru" but he sure pulled the plug quickly on
Kizer, his hand picked starter.  There's no doubt the Jets need a franchise QB
but this year there are multiple options in free agency and the draft.  With
a huge amount of cap space and the necessary draft capital Maccagnan has enough
resources to get one.  But the key question is will he pick the right one.
But for now I'm watching a young team develop chemistry, an identity and play
for first place on Sunday    

Cleveland has shown no ability to draft properly for the last decade. 

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15 minutes ago, KRL said:

I believe those screwups come from an organization who constantly looks to tank

and doesn't concern themselves with winning.  Getting a high #1 assures nothing
other than getting a ton of pre-draft coverage on ESPN.  It's about picking the
right QB then creating an environment to develop him.  Does CLE have that?  Hue
Jackson is supposed to be a "QB guru" but he sure pulled the plug quickly on
Kizer, his hand picked starter.  There's no doubt the Jets need a franchise QB
but this year there are multiple options in free agency and the draft.  With
a huge amount of cap space and the necessary draft capital Maccagnan has enough
resources to get one.  But the key question is will he pick the right one.
But for now I'm watching a young team develop chemistry, an identity and play
for first place on Sunday    

Max:

Can this one paragraph be sent to all those who are infuriated with the young guys winning three games who think its an abomination to want your team to win (AKA...THE TANKERS AT ALL COST)? 

 

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From MMQB:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/09/nfl-week-5-dolphins-cocaine-davante-adams-odell-beckham-jj-watt-peter-king

• Todd Bowles is not feeling vengeful. The Jets coach would be within his rights to tell the geniuses on my side of
the business (including me) how we had his team all wrong. I gave him that chance after the Miracle Jets, with a
17-14 win over Cleveland, moved into a three-way tie for the AFC East lead (Buffalo 3-2, New England 3-2, Jets 3-2.)
Vengeance? “I don’t have time for that,” he told me from Cleveland. “It’s a long season. And everyone else’s goals
are not our goals.” Lots of upset specials in the NFL this season, but the Jets being above .500 in October is one of
the biggest surprises. Bowles was bullish Sunday on quarterback Josh McCown, the 38-year-old veteran of 10 pro teams.
Sunday marked the first time in McCown’s career that he’d won three NFL starts in a row. “We love him,” said Bowles.
“He is perfect for our team. He has meant everything to us. He’s a leader for guys all over the team.” McCown’s
71-percent accuracy has been huge, as has his ability to instill some instant chemistry into a bunch of new receivers
(Jermaine Kearse: team-high 22 catches).

This should be fun if not necessarily a work of art: Jets-Patriots in New Jersey on Sunday for the AFC East lead.
Never thought in 2017 I’d be writing that sentence.

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14 hours ago, KRL said:

In what may have been their worst game of the year the Jets squeaked out a "butt
ugly" 17-14 win over CLE.  Thanks to CLE ineptitude in leaving 23 points on the field
and wasting timeouts the Jets overcame their poor play to fall into a three way tie
for first place.  Other than a few key plays there weren't many positives in the
review of the tape.  Let's take a look:

- OLine was spanked in both run & pass blocking.  Add in way too many penalties and 
you have a mess.  Credit to CLE DC (Gregg Williams) for breaking out some old school
Buddy Ryan "46 Defense" to clamp down on the running game.

- DLine was pushed around in the run game and they didn't bring enough consistent
pressure.  Muhammad Wilkerson's name was finally heard, unfortunately it was for 
two personal fouls.  The absence of Kony Ealy was very evident.

- Credit to both Lachlan Edwards and Chandler Cantazaro.  With offense doing nothing
Edwards kept CLE backed up with his punts.  And Cantazaro shockingly gave the team
a lead at halftime with a massive 57 yard FG.

- Solid game for Josh McCown as he kept the mistakes to a minimum (1 INT) as he was
under pressure.  And when he had the opportunity to put points on the board he threw
two sweet TD's to Austin Seferian-Jenkins and Jermaine Kearse.  Excellent management
of the game late as he made safe decisions and drained the clock.

- Did the injury bug bite Bilal Powell again?  He left the game early and never returned.
With Matt Forte out this was his time to finally take the #1 spot, now is not the time
to miss games.

- For the first time Marcus Maye outshined Jamal Adams.  Maye was excellent in coverage,
run support and had his first INT.  Adams struggled missing a key 3rd down tackle and
gave up a TD to Njoku.

- Morris Claiborne had an excellent game with multiple PBU's and an INT that jump started
the offense.  Marcus Williams was picked on all day and gave up multiple catches to very
pedestrian WR's.  The absence of Darryl Roberts and Juston Burris hurt.

- Half credit to Darron Lee & Demario Davis as they both had multiple "splash" plays.
Lee had a couple of TFL's which highlighted his speed and Davis had a sack and brought
good "A Gap" pressure on Claiborne's INT.  But they were not consistent in filling their
lanes in run defense.

Let's go over the multiple key plays that allowed the Jets to win:

- Freddie Bishop fumble recovery which cost CLE a TD
- Marcus Maye INT which cost CLE a TD
- Two missed FG's
- CLE bypassing another FG to go for it on 4th down.  Not getting it AND wasting a timeout
- The 96 yard TD drive after CLE didn't get the 4th down play.  Key catches by Eric Tomlinson,
Jeremy Kerley and Jermaine Kearse
- Morris Claiborne INT which set up a TD
- The 57 yard FG by Chandler Cantazaro at halftime

In closing it wasn't pretty but the Jets will be playing for first place next Sunday.  Who
would've thought that?  Also for those who were rating the Jets 2-2 record, JAX destroyed
PIT 30-9 and MIA beat TEN.  Just saying.     

Among the "key plays that allowed the Jets to win" you're also forgetting a sure TD to Duke Johnson from another of Lee's blown coverage. Lee got flagged on the play but the penalty didn't hold Johnson up enough to get overthrown by the amount it did (he was still way open anyway). A decent throw and it's also a different game. Swap Kizer for a decent QB - the type we have to beat before we start patting our D on their backs - and it's a 2-3 TD swing giftwrapped by Kizer in just the first half alone. Minimum 13 pts on those 3 plays (if both of the other 2 drives also stall on our 5). Then you can add in 9 more for the 2 missed FGs from Gonzalez and a 3rd given-up FG by Hue. 

So what is that, 22 points Cleveland left on the field?

As you note, Cleveland shooting itself in the foot, arm, face, and balls made it seem like our D played far better than it did. Enjoyment of the final score aside - winning handily or ugly counts the same in the standings - the reality is this looked like the defense that got smoked for 45 points in week 2, if Oakland didn't have a QB, WRs, a kicker, or a HC.

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7 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

This isn't a winning season though. Its a win a few games early bec the competition is so bad and then face real teams so lose just enough games to have an awful season but keep Bowles and have no future with a bad draft slot season.

Every time we win a game with some of you guys there's always an excuse for winning. I don't think we will be over .500 but right now we are and I'll take it. I'm a happy camper. ^_^

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Among the "key plays that allowed the Jets to win" you're also forgetting a sure TD to Duke Johnson from another of Lee's blown coverage. Lee got flagged on the play but the penalty didn't hold Johnson up enough to get overthrown by the amount it did (he was still way open anyway). A decent throw and it's also a different game. Swap Kizer for a decent QB - the type we have to beat before we start patting our D on their backs - and it's a 2-3 TD swing giftwrapped by Kizer in just the first half alone. Minimum 13 pts on those 3 plays (if both of the other 2 drives also stall on our 5). Then you can add in 9 more for the 2 missed FGs from Gonzalez and a 3rd given-up FG by Hue. 

So what is that, 22 points Cleveland left on the field?

As you note, Cleveland shooting itself in the foot, arm, face, and balls made it seem like our D played far better than it did. Enjoyment of the final score aside - winning handily or ugly counts the same in the standings - the reality is this looked like the defense that got smoked for 45 points in week 2, if Oakland didn't have a QB, WRs, a kicker, or a HC.

I took away the Jets mistakes and they won going away......I took away Mccowns pick, Wilks penalties, Adams mistakes and Powells injury and I swapped Beachum with Tyron Smith.

sorry dude, I just hate this "take away this one play" logic because it is invalid.

You can't alter 1 play and then assume the plays that follow will unfold exactly the same way, its just not the way it works.

Easiest example is a missed FG.  If they make it, there is a KO, and anything can happen. The Jets could fumble it, return it for a TD, return it to the 40, injury, penalty, fight, alien invasion.  The only thing you can say 100% for sure is the Jets don't get the ball where they did after the miss with no time going off the clock. We saw at the end of the half how much difference :01 makes. That impacts the play calll, and then the execution and the results just snowball from there.  Think butterfly effect.

The only play that you can change and say it impacted the result without effecting the plays that follow is the last play of the game.

 

 

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That's why I brought up last week when someone mentioned trading Powell. He's great when he plays but he does get injured often and would fetch the team more then Forte ever would, we would assume. Oh well, that ship has sailed already. 

The dline was terrible. No pressure at all the entire game. This team really needs to make it a priority to find pass rushers, especially if they don't want Leo to become a complete waste of a pick. 

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Just now, MDL_JET said:

That's why I brought up last week when someone mentioned trading Powell. He's great when he plays but he does get injured often and would fetch the team more then Forte ever would, we would assume. Oh well, that ship has sailed already. 

The dline was terrible. No pressure at all the entire game. This team really needs to make it a priority to find pass rushers, especially if they don't want Leo to become a complete waste of a pick. 

to be fair, the jets rushed 3 guys a bunch yesterday it seemed, and dared kiser to beat them, and he couldn't.  hoyer is better than kiser but that's not saying much.  at least the secondary is playing well, but that only accentuates how poor the pass rush is b/c qbs are holding onto the ball more.

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9 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

That's why I brought up last week when someone mentioned trading Powell. He's great when he plays but he does get injured often and would fetch the team more then Forte ever would, we would assume. Oh well, that ship has sailed already. 

The dline was terrible. No pressure at all the entire game. This team really needs to make it a priority to find pass rushers, especially if they don't want Leo to become a complete waste of a pick. 

Told all you guys that losing Mauldin was huge.B)

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36 minutes ago, Larz said:

I took away the Jets mistakes and they won going away......I took away Mccowns pick, Wilks penalties, Adams mistakes and Powells injury and I swapped Beachum with Tyron Smith.

sorry dude, I just hate this "take away this one play" logic because it is invalid.

You can't alter 1 play and then assume the plays that follow will unfold exactly the same way, its just not the way it works.

Easiest example is a missed FG.  If they make it, there is a KO, and anything can happen. The Jets could fumble it, return it for a TD, return it to the 40, injury, penalty, fight, alien invasion.  The only thing you can say 100% for sure is the Jets don't get the ball where they did after the miss with no time going off the clock. We saw at the end of the half how much difference :01 makes. That impacts the play calll, and then the execution and the results just snowball from there.  Think butterfly effect.

The only play that you can change and say it impacted the result without effecting the plays that follow is the last play of the game.

 

 

Difference between taking away plays that never should have happened. A downfield try that's picked off isn't the same as one made inside the 5 when the game wasn't on the line.

Notice I didn't take away the Jets picking off Hogan; that was a totally different type of play vs the others I mentioned, like fumbling on a pitch to the HB without a Jets player within 10 feet of the football.

Nor did I suggest a single missed FG in the first Q was the difference-maker in the final score, when there were 3 more quarters to play in an otherwise close game. 

If you think the defense had a good game, no one's stopping you.

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I know the Browns are bad, but I don't know what the defense is supposed to do. They can't control the crappiness of their opponent. They had a solid game. 

It just seems that everytime the Jets do something good, it's "the opponents fault" here. Why cant you give them some credit?

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Difference between taking away plays that never should have happened. A downfield try that's picked off isn't the same as one made inside the 5 when the game wasn't on the line.

Notice I didn't take away the Jets picking off Hogan; that was a totally different type of play vs the others I mentioned, like fumbling on a pitch to the HB without a Jets player within 10 feet of the football.

Nor did I suggest a single missed FG in the first Q was the difference-maker in the final score, when there were 3 more quarters to play in an otherwise close game. 

If you think the defense had a good game, no one's stopping you.

As deeply flawed as your logic is in this, why are you only adjusting Browns bad plays into good ones? Why not make it even? 

I could see if people were declaring a super bowl run or something but nobody is. 

It's like you are creating a phantom to argue with and then using an absurd argument to make a point. 

It was an ugly win. We get it. 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

As deeply flawed as your logic is in this, why are you only adjusting Browns bad plays into good ones? Why not make it even? 

I could see if people were declaring a super bowl run or something but nobody is. 

It's like you are creating a phantom to argue with and then using an absurd argument to make a point. 

It was an ugly win. We get it. 

Yes I should have adjusted so they would have all been missed chip-shot FGs anyway lol.

I look forward to your next monthly "gotcha" attempt. 

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17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes I should have adjusted so they would have all been missed chip-shot FGs anyway lol.

I look forward to your next monthly "gotcha" attempt. 

It's really very simple. You take one play away, none of the other plays happen. 

What is your point anyway? 

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What this game proved above all else is that the Browns know how to tank and the Jets don't.   There are ZERO positives to be taken away from this game from a Jets perspective.  Another meaningless win that potentially pushes the franchise further away from drafting a franchise QB.  Awesome sauce.

 

 

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