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Regardless of Record, Jets’ Maccagnan Has one Mission

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

That's my point. I don't think they ever saw Petty as much more than a career backup.  They certainly gave him no opportunity as a rookie and it took a complete implosion by Fitzpatrick and Geno blowing his knee out for him to even see the field last season.  Petty was not drafted with any expectation at all beyond being a worthy draft pick.  This team needed a QB.  Then the next year they needed a QB.  Now they need a QB.  This is nothing new.

That's why Hack is a huge swing and miss.  Clearly they thought he'd be much better than he is right now.  

Everyone is entitle to their opinion, and mine is as I said earlier.  Year one was to evaluate Geno.  He was an idiot so they had to go with Fitz.  Fitz did enough to make them give it another shot with him last year while drafting Hack to learn.  Fitz imploded so now they've assembled a roster that should put them in position to get a QB at or near the top of the first round.

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think it more so had to do with drafting an undraftable product in the 2nd round and his other QB pick sucks too.  Like, they won't let them play over sh*tty journeyman vets type of bad.  That's a little worse than a swing and miss.  

Newsome never really tried to draft a QB before Boller. The highest pick he selected a QB was Chris Redman in the 3rd.  He always had a vet.  Boller was awful but at least he was allowed to play and actually QB'd a team to a winning record.  He had an 8 year career.  Derek Anderson had a winning probowl season and still in the league.  Tyrod Taylor is a starter and good.  Flacco has a Super Bowl.  Obviously a much longer resume to analyze though.

 

 

 

The longer resume is the most important part of your statement.  It took him how long to find a QB?  Fifteen years?  And Boller in rd 1 is worse than Hack in rd 2 IMO.  When all is said and done they will both have done nothing meaningful.  If I gotta' take a nobody, I'd rather get him in rd. 2 than rd. 1.

Rex Ryan discovered Tyrod Taylor :)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think it more so had to do with drafting an undraftable product in the 2nd round and his other QB pick sucks too.  Like, they won't let them play over sh*tty journeyman vets type of bad.  That's a little worse than a swing and miss.  

Newsome never really tried to draft a QB before Boller. The highest pick he selected a QB was Chris Redman in the 3rd.  He always had a vet.  Boller was awful but at least he was allowed to play and actually QB'd a team to a winning record.  He had an 8 year career.  Derek Anderson had a winning probowl season and still in the league.  Tyrod Taylor is a starter and good.  Flacco has a Super Bowl.  Obviously a much longer resume to analyze though.

 

 

 

I think that's on Bowles.  Petty showed enough to be given the job IMO, but Bowles went with the vet.

Most important part of this season is probably when they're out of it and Petty gets a look.

Could emerge as a future back up or increase his trade value.

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The longer resume is the most important part of your statement.  It took him how long to find a QB?  Fifteen years?  And Boller in rd 1 is worse than Hack in rd 2 IMO.  When all is said and done they will both have done nothing meaningful.  If I gotta' take a nobody, I'd rather get him in rd. 2 than rd. 1.

Rex Ryan discovered Tyrod Taylor :)

 

 

Clemens, Geno, Hack....we are great at getting our nobodies in round 2.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Clemens, Geno, Hack....we are great at getting our nobodies in round 2.

We're not alone.  Look at the list of second round QB's over the past couple of decades and it's a whole lot of guys like Clemens, Geno and Hack.  I know it feels like it's just the Jets since that's the team most of us root for, but it's oddly common in the second round.

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4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

We're not alone.  Look at the list of second round QB's over the past couple of decades and it's a whole lot of guys like Clemens, Geno and Hack.  I know it feels like it's just the Jets since that's the team most of us root for, but it's oddly common in the second round.

Well the jets have supposidley draft more QBs period than anyone else over the last 10 years or so. 

Your chances are simply better if you are drafting 1st round high than otherwise.  Yeah there are high 1st round busts, yeah there are good QBs you can find lower down but your odds are better the higher you are,  Thus the fact that many fans are fed up with 'half' doing the job of getting a QB my drafting 2nd round or lower.

Go high or go home and with a rebuilding team go high without having to trade the farm to trade up to get a guy.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Eli Manning? Just off the top of my head.

Implying Phillip Rivers, on those Giant teams, wouldn't have done just as well?  

One example, a tenuous one at that, is not proof.  You'd need multiple examples, outnumbering all the times it's failed to deliver.  

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Also consider that teams staying pat at #1/#2, instead of trading down, are forgoing that type of compensation. Depending on one's point of view, those teams also gave up such compensation to take their guy at #1/#2 overall.

Pure presumption on your part.  Unless a trade offer was made, publicly, you have no idea if they gave up massive picks or not.    

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Well the jets have supposidley draft more QBs period than anyone else over the last 10 years or so. 

Your chances are simply better if you are drafting 1st round high than otherwise.  Yeah there are high 1st round busts, yeah there are good QBs you can find lower down but your odds are better the higher you are,  Thus the fact that many fans are fed up with 'half' doing the job of getting a QB my drafting 2nd round or lower.

Go high or go home and with a rebuilding team go high without having to trade the farm to trade up to get a guy.

I agree.  That's why I say play the season out, then do what it takes to trade up...that would be my first choice in terms of the draft.

If they're sitting at five or six and feel like somebody they veiw as a franchise QB will be available because of the depth of this class, I can live with that.

Bottom line is don't enter next season with 1. Vet bum 2. Petty 3. Hack

It's gotta be something like 1. Established vet or blue chip product 2. McCown-type vet or rookie 3. Petty or rookie 4. Petty or rookie

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13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The longer resume is the most important part of your statement.  It took him how long to find a QB?  Fifteen years?  And Boller in rd 1 is worse than Hack in rd 2 IMO.  When all is said and done they will both have done nothing meaningful.  If I gotta' take a nobody, I'd rather get him in rd. 2 than rd. 1.

Rex Ryan discovered Tyrod Taylor :)

That is tanker mentality.  My mistake is worse, but I meant to do that.  I am only out a 2nd.  Sure we lose a ton of games, but THINK of the draft pick!  Much better to be 1-15 than 9-7. 

Hackenberg has not rated a snap on a team where every QB sucked AND was injured.  In two years.  A team desperate at QB for 2 full offseasons and 21 games.  That is much worse than Kyle Boller who started 47 games and played for 3 different teams.  Kyle Boller had a 9-7 season, I'm sure he could have gotten $10M out of this administration.

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6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is tanker mentality.  My mistake is worse, but I meant to do that.  I am only out a 2nd.  Sure we lose a ton of games, but THINK of the draft pick!  Much better to be 1-15 than 9-7. 

Hackenberg has not rated a snap on a team where every QB sucked AND was injured.  In two years.  A team desperate at QB for 2 full offseasons and 21 games.  That is much worse than Kyle Boller who started 47 games and played for 3 different teams.  Kyle Boller had a 9-7 season, I'm sure he could have gotten $10M out of this administration.

Not sure what you mean.  I'm saying that a wasted 1st is worse than a wasted 2nd.  I think most would agree.

There are plenty of Kyle Boller's available every offseason.  Mac has never signed one.

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21 minutes ago, AFJF said:

We're not alone.  Look at the list of second round QB's over the past couple of decades and it's a whole lot of guys like Clemens, Geno and Hack.  I know it feels like it's just the Jets since that's the team most of us root for, but it's oddly common in the second round.

"Our GM is just as dumb as other dumb GMs" is an odd argument for a guy you want to extend.

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Not sure what you mean.  I'm saying that a wasted 1st is worse than a wasted 2nd.  I think most would agree.

There are plenty of Kyle Boller's available every offseason.  Mac has never signed one.

I am saying a mid to late first on a QB that doesn't turn into a stud is better than a 2nd on a guy that does not belong in uniform.  He hasn't even dressed coaches decision in what?  19 out of 21 opportunities? 

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Unlike some out here, I now truly believe that Mac and Bowles are far higher on Petty and Hack than they let on.

Think ...they have actually turned down multiple offers for Petty, that we know about, and that doesn't even take into account those offers or inquiries that we don't have a clue of......

It now appears to me that they believe that both QBs have a real chance to be starters in this league and that they want to give both QBs a genuine chance to develop and duke it out with a 3rd QB To Be Determined Later next year in training camp. 

While many of us want Petty in and then Hack in this season NOW, it seems Mac and Bowles  are content to let these guys mature by watching McCown prepare for games; and then have a reasonable Jets team around them when they actually step out on to the field again.

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25 minutes ago, freestater said:

You want a toe? I can get you a toe...

I know this if Sobchak, but for some reason it made me think of the dog in Wild at Heart.  That's not even a toe or a foot, it's a hand and it's lifted from Yojimbo.  Not sure how that got put in my head, but at least I will watch Yojimbo again this weekend and for that I thank you.

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1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

Unlike some out here, I now truly believe that Mac and Bowles are far higher on Petty and Hack than they let on.

Think ...they have actually turned down multiple offers for Petty, that we know about, and that doesn't even take into account those offers or inquiries that we don't have a clue of......

It now appears to me that they believe that both QBs have a real chance to be starters in this league and that they want to give both QBs a genuine chance to develop and duke it out with a 3rd QB To Be Determined Later next year in training camp. 

While many of us want Petty in and then Hack in this season NOW, it seems Mac and Bowles  are content to let these guys mature by watching McCown prepare for games; and then have a reasonable Jets team around them when they actually step out on to the field again.

Liking Petty I could buy.  They (or at least Mac) clearly likes something about him otherwise why not just deal him for picks?

Hack?  I find it hard to believe they like him at all.

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Dark horse theory ;

Morton gets the HC job and they actually look for his QB

Otherwise I fear we will be looking at more Parcells play defense and run the ball stuff with Bowles 

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27 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Liking Petty I could buy.  They (or at least Mac) clearly likes something about him otherwise why not just deal him for picks?

Hack?  I find it hard to believe they like him at all.

AFJF.... I hear you...

But I think that we shouldn't discount the article that was written by SI on May 6, 2016. 

In that article it stated in part, that the Jets made a secret visit to scout Hack for themselves and saw something in him that made them believe that he was potentially a first round talent with franchise QB upside. 

The article also implied that the Jets knew that Hack had flaws but that if they could coach him up some and give him time to develop, he could be a keeper. 

And I don't sense anything that they did with him this past summer that would lead me to believe that they have changed that basic assessment.  The truth is Hack has been here just two years one of which he wasn't even in the calculus because he was the fourth QB on the team and I am not sure that the Jets were happy with Chan's handling of his development.

Time will of course tell but I just feel that fans are looking at Hack from a far different lens then the Jets Brass are....

Here is the link to that article that I referenced for those who didn't see it or can't recall it:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/06/themmqb-christian-hackenberg-new-york-jets-quarterback-private-workout-nfl-draft-2016

 

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1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

AFJF.... I hear you...

But I think that we shouldn't discount the article that was written by SI on May 6, 2016. 

In that article it stated in part, that the Jets made a secret visit to scout Hack for themselves and saw something in him that made them believe that he was a first round franchise QB. 

The article also implied that the Jets knew that Hack had flaws but that if they could coach him up some and give him time to develop, he could be a keeper. 

And I don't sense anything that they did with him this past summer that would lead me to believe that they have changed that basic assessment.  The truth is Hack has been here just two years one of which he was n't even in the calculus becaus he was the fourth QB on the team and I am not sure that the Jets were happy with Chan's handling of his development.

Time will of course tell but I just feel that fans are looking at Hack from a far different lens then the Jets Brass are....

Here is the link to that article that I referenced for those who didn't see it or can't recall it:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/06/themmqb-christian-hackenberg-new-york-jets-quarterback-private-workout-nfl-draft-2016

 

I get what you're saying and I said this off-season that maybe they went with a guy who had football smarts vs. a guy who had great mechanics, because we've seen so many QB's who have the physical part of the game down, but they don't have the brains for it.

What I saw from Hack this pre-season made me question all of these football smarts we were told he has.  How many times did we see him get blasted by a blitzer because he didn't see him creeping up and then didn't see him coming off the edge unblocked?

I want to believe he'll get there, but man has he been bad.

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Hack is still so young at 22 and while I'd have liked him to beat out McCown, you have a QB with 16 years vs a 22yo.

I think there's no need to panic on this. Draft a QB in Rnd 1, keep Petty, keep Hack.

Petty has enough ability to start now. If Hack can beat him out then obviously he has too. If the Rnd 1 pick is a stud and can beat them both all fine.

Best case, we end with with a starter and 2 QBs that are good trade bait. 

 

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9 hours ago, jamesr said:

Whatever we have right now, we have to approach this draft on the assumption that we have nothing. Even if Petty plays 8 games and looks really good, draft that QB anyway in Round 1, give Petty a run while the draft pick learns, and take it from there. If we end up with one QB out of that, job done. End up with two - excellent!!

it makes sense.  it's going to take a season to develop even the best of the qb's in this draft and if the guy is good he's still a valuable commodity even if he doesn't beat out the incumbent.  the problem with the jets right now is they don't have an incumbent qb for next season.  that's a good argument for starting petty or hack.

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6 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'm not trading three #1 picks to move up to get Darnold or Rosen.  Sorry, no.

Not in a draft this deep at QB, and so much uncertainty around the (current) top two prospects (especially Sam "Interceptions" Darnold, of perennial underwhelming pro QB factory USC).

Stay pat, draft the Best available QB at our slot (or perhaps a slot or two higher if the cost is right).  Then yes, draft another QB later if one presents himself availble.

The invest those saved draft picks in assets to put around our new QB.  O-linemen (we still need at least 2).  WR's (Kearse may be a short-term solution, Kerley isn't, a legit #1 WR is a real need).  And another running back to replace Forte (ugh) and Powell (getting long in the tooth).

Trading a bagful of #1's and #2 picks for one guy, has that ever worked?  I can't recall an example off the top of my head.  

Just off the top of my head from recent memory:  Carson Wentz.  Eagles trade a boatload of picks to get him.  Nobody in PHI is sad about it now.

Going back a little further, the Falcons trade 2 1st and a few other picks to move up for Julio Jones.  That worked out pretty well for them.  

You could say the Texans are pretty happy with their trade up for Watson as well.

Fun fact...all three of those trades were with the Browns.  Clearly CLE does not have a strong history in the draft trade business :)

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23 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

AFJF.... I hear you...

But I think that we shouldn't discount the article that was written by SI on May 6, 2016. 

In that article it stated in part, that the Jets made a secret visit to scout Hack for themselves and saw something in him that made them believe that he was potentially a first round talent with franchise QB upside. 

The article also implied that the Jets knew that Hack had flaws but that if they could coach him up some and give him time to develop, he could be a keeper. 

And I don't sense anything that they did with him this past summer that would lead me to believe that they have changed that basic assessment.  The truth is Hack has been here just two years one of which he wasn't even in the calculus because he was the fourth QB on the team and I am not sure that the Jets were happy with Chan's handling of his development.

Time will of course tell but I just feel that fans are looking at Hack from a far different lens then the Jets Brass are....

Here is the link to that article that I referenced for those who didn't see it or can't recall it:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/06/themmqb-christian-hackenberg-new-york-jets-quarterback-private-workout-nfl-draft-2016

 

the downside of this article is that gailey and patullo are no longer with the jets so it's hard to know if their assessment is still valid.  the guys to ask now are morton and bates.  if they feel the same then maybe there's some real hope for hack.

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57 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the downside of this article is that gailey and patullo are no longer with the jets so it's hard to know if their assessment is still valid.  the guys to ask now are morton and bates.  if they feel the same then maybe there's some real hope for hack.

I really believe the mishandling of Hack is the reason why Patullo is no longer with the team.

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Maccagnan hasn't had any star FA QBs that have hit the market since he has been the Jets GM, so you can't criticize him for not making the attempt. Had he signed Osweiller or Glennon for big money, we would be flying planes and asking for Maccagnan to be fired. 

In the 2015 draft, we have no idea if he tried to trade up for Winston or Mariotta. The Jets were picking at 6 and were close enough to the top of the draft to trade into the first 2 spots. It would have taken major balls for a brand new GM, a couple of months in his first gig, to trade up. I also doubt the Bucs or Titans were going to pass on the QBs available. Accordingly, I can't kill Maccagnan for not getting an elite QB prospect here. 

In the 2016 draft, we were too far down in the first round to have a realistic shot at Goff or Wentz. I was hoping the Jets would pick Lynch at 18 and thank god they didn't as Lynch looks like a bust so far (although this could change). You can realistically kill Maccagnan for selecting Hack in the 2nd and that pick seems to be panning out the way I expected. I guess you can criticize Macc for not selecting Dak Prescott, but you could say the same for 31 other GMs in the league. 

In the 2017 draft, when the Jets were on the clock, I wanted either Watson or Adams. Adams looks like he is going to pan out, but so does Watson. QB is a lot more important than safety, so this is a miss by Macc (especially if they passed on Watson due to some misplaced faith in Hackenberg). Time will tell, but this looks like its going to bite the Jets in the ass.

2018 looks like its going to be the year that Macc makes a strong play for a QB, but the Jets are going to need luck. It looks like the Browns are going to be picking number 1 and I have to assume they are going QB. They may trade down to accumulate more picks (they have been doing just that for the last several years), but I can't imagine they are going to pass on Darnold or Rosen. 

Where the Jets are going to need luck is in having both Darnold and Rosen declare. Then, the Jets have to hope that either the Bears (they aren't going to pick another QB) or 49ers (assuming they sign Cousins) pick second and that the Jets can out bid other teams and trade up.  

 

 

 

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Last draft though, Adams was by far and away the best player available. Is S a high value position? Well, Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed were very big parts of their respective SB teams, but usually, no. The only QB choices left when the Jets picked were Watson and Kizer. Were they the best players available at the time when Adams was still on the board, or should we have drafted them simply because we were looking for a franchise QB? 

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This whole topic is bullsh*t.... this story already has an ending.

1) Macc isn't going anywhere because he "hit" on Adams, and we're beating the other trash teams in the league (nice one McCown)

2) The condition of retaining Macc -- a scarlet letter on his door step from Johnson & Johnson; "Get a QB or die"

3) Macc will try (and fail) to secure the 1st pick. We'll settle for Rudolph (Petty 2.0), or insert other flawed QB and we'll crash and burn. Mass Suicides ensue. Cities burn. The last walk of christ, etc. 

The end

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7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

"Idzik guys" is code for "people who hated Rex." 

Not even close, really.

There are a lot of people who hated Rex, but only a few who long for the days of Jeremiah George and Jalin Saunders.

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