Jets' acting owner says 3-3 start is 'a grrreeat thing'

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Carson Palmer from Oakland to Arz in 2013. The Cards have had a winning record w/him as a starter since except for last year.

Denver Broncos acquired Peyton Manning in 2013 and he took them to the SuperBowl that year. 

Drew Brees to New Orleans as a UFA in 2006 

Palmer hasn't done much other than put up #s but he has been their starter for years.

Peyton was along for the ride in 2015 but was great previous years

Brees helped change that franchise overnight and delivered their only SB title

 

a couple more:

Buf's QB right now was acquired by trade or FA

KC has a franchise QB that they acquired via trade

 

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

3 times in an 11-year period.  Makes it possible but not likely that you can pull it off. 

Obviously, Kirk Cousins would be the name to watch this year, but I cannot imagine even the Redskins are stupid enough to let him hit free agency.  

and how many legit franchise QBs were drafted at top of round 1?

Ben

Eli(though he has been mostly mediocre he's still a franchise QB)

Rivers

looks like it in Philly, TB and LA but it's early

Carolina

Atlanta

that's the same amount as those acquired via FA/trades.

 

Let's look at SB winning QBs this Century:

2000: Dilfer- FA/trade, perfect fit for that team but they won w/ D

2001: Brady: 6th rd

2002; Johnson- see Dilfer

2003: Brady

2004: Brady

2005: Ben- high 1st rounder, D won SB but Ben was great in AFC playoffs

2006: Peyton- #1 overall but D carried that team that postseason outside of one half.

2007: Eli- #1 overall, D led that run

2008: Ben

2009: Brees- FA

2010: Rodgers- late 1st rounder

2011: Eli- see 2007

2012: Flacco- high 1st rounder

2013: Wilson- 2nd(or 3rd) rounder

2014: Brady

2015: Peyton FA, was carried by D

2016: Brady

 

so in 17 seasons high 1st round picks(w/o changing teams) have won 6 of 17 SBs and all did it with great defense except Flacco.

 

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

and how many legit franchise QBs were drafted at top of round 1?

Ben

Eli(though he has been mostly mediocre he's still a franchise QB)

Rivers

looks like it in Philly, TB and LA but it's early

Carolina

Atlanta

that's the same amount as those acquired via FA/trades.

 

Let's look at SB winning QBs this Century:

2000: Dilfer- FA/trade, perfect fit for that team but they won w/ D

2001: Brady: 6th rd

2002; Johnson- see Dilfer

2003: Brady

2004: Brady

2005: Ben- high 1st rounder, D won SB but Ben was great in AFC playoffs

2006: Peyton- #1 overall but D carried that team that postseason outside of one half.

2007: Eli- #1 overall, D led that run

2008: Ben

2009: Brees- FA

2010: Rodgers- late 1st rounder

2011: Eli- see 2007

2012: Flacco- high 1st rounder

2013: Wilson- 2nd(or 3rd) rounder

2014: Brady

2015: Peyton FA, was carried by D

2016: Brady

 

so in 17 seasons high 1st round picks(w/o changing teams) have won 6 of 17 SBs and all did it with great defense except Flacco.

 

Flacco did it with a great defense.  He was a mid-first rounder.   

KC just drafted a QB in the first round, which they had not done in a long time.  The Jets are not savvy enough to tank for a QB. The roster is to thin to trade picks for an uncertain QB.  The future of this team is a FA QB. The question really is at what round do they role the dice for the best QB available without peeing away draft picks.  It has been round 2 (Clemens, Geno, Hack).  Maybe this is the year they use the first rounder on a guaranteed star at a high value position and roll the dice in round 2 and hope Mayfield or Falk is there.  

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, varjet said:

Flacco did it with a great defense.  He was a mid-first rounder.   

KC just drafted a QB in the first round, which they had not done in a long time.  The Jets are not savvy enough to tank for a QB. The roster is to thin to trade picks for an uncertain QB.  The future of this team is a FA QB. The question really is at what round do they role the dice for the best QB available without peeing away draft picks.  It has been round 2 (Clemens, Geno, Hack).  Maybe this is the year they use the first rounder on a guaranteed star at a high value position and roll the dice in round 2 and hope Mayfield or Falk is there.  

the Baltimore D was not good during that SB run and Flacco was incredible.  My mistake on his draft position so that's one less high 1st rounder.  it has been very rare in this era to see high 1st rounders win SBs.

 

2012 postseason Flacco led O to 28 PPG in the 4 playoff games, he threw 11 TDs and ZERO INTs during that run.  the D allowed 18 PPG which is not bad but not great.  For comparison sake the 2000 Ravens allowed 4 PPG in their 4 playoff games.

it's not fair to compare them to 2000 Bal so in 2007 NYG allowed 16 PPg including facing and shutting down greatest O of all time in SB.  They beat Brady and NE holding NE to 14 pts, the Bal D against SF allowed 29 points.  the 2011 Giants allowed 14 PPG and again shut down an all time great O in the SB. 

Baltimore won in 2012 b/c of Flacco and the offense.  He is not a great QB but he was GREAT during that run.

 

KC knows Smith is likely on the way out and he's getting old.  They had the luxury to draft a guy to sit behind Smith.  savvy enough to tank?  who, besides Indy 2011, has tanked successfully in this league?  and as good as Luck is I can't recall all the Colts championships w/ him.  Tanking makes no sense.

[sourceworx]

8 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Carson Palmer from Oakland to Arz in 2013. The Cards have had a winning record w/him as a starter since except for last year.

Denver Broncos acquired Peyton Manning in 2013 and he took them to the SuperBowl that year. 

Drew Brees to New Orleans as a UFA in 2006 

You forgot the Cards had Kurt Warner as well, and he took them to a Super Bowl.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

You forgot the Cards had Kurt Warner as well, and he took them to a Super Bowl.

Kurt Warner did it TWICE, transforming two of the biggest laughingstocks in NFL history into SB Champs(SL) and NFC Champs(Ari).

[sourceworx]

15 minutes ago, varjet said:

Flacco did it with a great defense.  He was a mid-first rounder.   

KC just drafted a QB in the first round, which they had not done in a long time.  The Jets are not savvy enough to tank for a QB. The roster is to thin to trade picks for an uncertain QB.  The future of this team is a FA QB. The question really is at what round do they role the dice for the best QB available without peeing away draft picks.  It has been round 2 (Clemens, Geno, Hack).  Maybe this is the year they use the first rounder on a guaranteed star at a high value position and roll the dice in round 2 and hope Mayfield or Falk is there.  

KC has a long history of going the veteran QB (via FA or trade) route. Sometimes it has worked, while other times it hasn't.

- Joe Montana
- Elvis Grbac
- Rich Gannon
- Trent Green
- Matt Cassell
- Alex Smith

I'm sure I'm missing some.

 

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

KC knows Smith is likely on the way out and he's getting old.  They had the luxury to draft a guy to sit behind Smith.  savvy enough to tank?  who, besides Indy 2011, has tanked successfully in this league?  and as good as Luck is I can't recall all the Colts championships w/ him.  Tanking makes no sense.

I just don't think KC likes Smith that much.  I can't see how anybody would say he was "on the way out and getting old" He is 6 months younger than Rodgers, signed pretty cheaply through the 2018 season and playing the best football of his career.

[Matt39]

This strategy of trying to build a perfect defense while ignoring the most important position in sports over the course of 10 regimes seems to be working well.

[section314]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I just don't think KC likes Smith that much.  I can't see how anybody would say he was "on the way out and getting old" He is 6 months younger than Rodgers, signed pretty cheaply through the 2018 season and playing the best football of his career.

Kind of agree with you here. I think Andy Reed knows that Smith has probably taken him as far he can, thus the pick of Mahommes.

[sourceworx]

42 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Kurt Warner did it TWICE, transforming two of the biggest laughingstocks in NFL history into SB Champs(SL) and NFC Champs(Ari).

Yep.

And I'm not saying that we should go the FA/trade route. I just think it's an option that shouldn't be automatically discounted.

Ideally I'd still like to draft a QB. I just don't believe we have to have the first pick to find a good one. We've had plenty of opportunities to take ones who turned out to be good, and we've passed on them for D-Linemen and safeties. The problem we've had hasn't been where we've picked in the draft. It's who we've picked. 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

3 times in an 11-year period.  Makes it possible but not likely that you can pull it off. 

How many Super Bowl winning QB's were drafted #1/#2 overall in that same 11 year period?

Just curious, actually, I honestly don't know.  Eli Manning is one, right?  

[dbatesman]

13 hours ago, Warfish said:

Do you do anything but comment on the comments of others anymore?

Mods, please move all replies to the draft forum

[BroadwayJoe12]

Looking solely at who won the Super Bowl and their respective draft position is shortsighted. Look at how many playoff teams there have been the last 15 years and then look at how many times those teams had a highly drafted QB. It's not just about winning one super bowl, but being in contention every year for a decade and a half. 

 

[peebag]

17 hours ago, nyjunc said:

it's been a season so far, let's hope it continues.

Fixed that for you.

[hiflyer739]

14 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

This exquisite piece is an apt metaphor for the savant-like, long-term plan for the Jets being intricately orchestrated by Sirs Macc and Bowles:

 

 

Can't stop staring.

[Warfish]

44 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Looking solely at who won the Super Bowl and their respective draft position is shortsighted. Look at how many playoff teams there have been the last 15 years and then look at how many times those teams had a highly drafted QB. It's not just about winning one super bowl, but being in contention every year for a decade and a half. 

 

That's fair.

Lets then look at two recent examples:

Andrew Luck, drafted #1/#1 in 2012 Draft.  Considered the greatest talent to come out in a decade, a "generational type player".  As close to a sure thing as anyone has seen since Elway.

2012:  11-5, Lost in Wildcard
2013:  11-5, Lost in Divisional Round
2014:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2015:  8-8, No Playoffs
2016:  8-8, No Playoffs
2017:  Injured, Not Playing, Team is 2-4 Without Him 

Mark Sanchez, drafted #5/#1 in the 2009 Draft.  Considered a meaningful risk due to limited college career, and the 2nd QB taken behind Matt Stafford

2009:  9-7, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2010:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2011:  8-8, No Playoffs
2012:  6-10, No Playoffs
2013:  Injured, Did Not Play
2014:  Allowed to Leave Team, middling and minimal success since as a #2.

When we look at the results, the "Generational Talent" and #1/#1 has not produced much more than the mediocre risky #5 pick (2nd QB taken).  Sanchez reached one more AFCCG, Luck had one more very good year.  Both have suffered injuries.  Both may wind up never winning anything with the teams that drafted them.

We could add Matt Stafford to this comparison as well (as Stafford was a #1/#1) and the point would be further reinforced.

It is not about being teh #1/#1, it's about finding a QB talented enough to win, and surrounding him with talent and a system that will help that QB win.

Sanchez, who I have little respect for, got to two AFCCG's.  Luck, an amazing talent, only got to one.  When both lost the talent around them, or the system stopped supporting them, turned into .500 type QB's.  

Point is, yes, it'd be great to have our pick of the litter, and get the hyped up "best" guy in the 2018 Draft.

But picking later does not mean we're doomed.  If we pick in the top 10, or even top 15, there is every chance in this, "the deepest QB draft since 1983", that we can select a QB who has the potential to be a legit franchise QB.  If he becomes one will be as much on the GM and the surrounding talent and Coaches as it will be on the kid QB himself.

[Beerfish]

12 hours ago, Maxman said:

• The problem is however is that the best players on this team have been late add ons.
  • So if the GM is better at trades and signing UDFAs why are we rooting for a better draft pick?
• If you settle for mediocrity t that is what you will get.
  • The fans root for a win every game. If the root for a loss, it means nothing. Rooting for a win, doesn't mean they will win. So fans aren't settling. I want a Super Bowl this year. That isn't settling.

We had Anderson, Peake and Marshall from last year, we drafted stewart and Hansen this year.  Kerley and Kearse are our best receivers.

We have mo wilk, Leo Williams and a ton invested in the dline.  Kony Ealy has been our most impactful dlineman.

All three of these guys picked up late late in the process after camp.  That is an issue.  To win long term in this league you draft for success and supplement with fa's to fit in.  Street fa's and throw ins from trades are our starters and best players.

 

Everyone roots for this team to win each week other than one or two people.  Even the people who want to tank and are VERY critical of the team want them to win come game day.

The difference is that we do not all agree on how this team can get to be a super bowl contender.  That is all that matters in the long term, win a super bowl and at times you have to step back and rework things and get out of the 40 year cycle the jets have been in.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, Warfish said:

That's fair.

Lets then look at two recent examples:

Andrew Luck, drafted #1/#1 in 2012 Draft.  Considered the greatest talent to come out in a decade, a "generational type player".  As close to a sure thing as anyone has seen since Elway.

2012:  11-5, Lost in Wildcard
2013:  11-5, Lost in Divisional Round
2014:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2015:  8-8, No Playoffs
2016:  8-8, No Playoffs
2017:  Injured, Not Playing, Team is 2-4 Without Him 

Mark Sanchez, drafted #5/#1 in the 2009 Draft.  Considered a meaningful risk due to limited college career, and the 2nd QB taken behind Matt Stafford

2009:  9-7, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2010:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2011:  8-8, No Playoffs
2012:  6-10, No Playoffs
2013:  Injured, Did Not Play
2014:  Allowed to Leave Team

When we look at the results, the "Generational Talent" and #1/#1 has not produced much more than the mediocre risky #5 pick (2nd QB taken).  Sanchex reached one more AFCCG, Luck had one more very good year.  Both have suffered injuries.  Both may wind up never winning anything with the teams that drafted them.

We could add Matt Stafford to this comparison as well (as Stafford was a #1/#1) and the point would be further reinforced.

It is not about being teh #1/#1, it's about finding a QB talented enough to win, and surrounding him with talent and a system that will help that QB win.

Sanchez, who I have little respect for, got to two AFCCG's.  Luck, an amazing talent, only got to one.  When both lost the talent around them, or the system stopped supporting them, turned into .500 type QB's.  

Point is, yes, it'd be great to have our pick of the litter, and get the hyped up "best" guy in the 2018 Draft.

But picking later does not mean we're doomed.  If we pick in the top 10, or even top 15, there is every chance in this, "the deepest QB draft since 1983", that we can select a QB who has the potential to be a legit franchise QB.  If he becomes one will be as much on the GM and the surrounding talent and Coaches as it will be on the kid QB himself.

Mods, please move to the comments on comments forum.

[Warfish]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Mods, please move to the comments on comments forum.

Content free posters remaining content free, ftw.

Wake me when you post something about football Miss.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Content free posters remaining content free, ftw.

Wake me when you post something about football Miss.

This is about football.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Mods, please move all replies to the draft forum

At this point this basically is 

[MDL_JET]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's fair.

Lets then look at two recent examples:

Andrew Luck, drafted #1/#1 in 2012 Draft.  Considered the greatest talent to come out in a decade, a "generational type player".  As close to a sure thing as anyone has seen since Elway.

2012:  11-5, Lost in Wildcard
2013:  11-5, Lost in Divisional Round
2014:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2015:  8-8, No Playoffs
2016:  8-8, No Playoffs
2017:  Injured, Not Playing, Team is 2-4 Without Him 

Mark Sanchez, drafted #5/#1 in the 2009 Draft.  Considered a meaningful risk due to limited college career, and the 2nd QB taken behind Matt Stafford

2009:  9-7, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2010:  11-5, Lost in AFC Championship Game
2011:  8-8, No Playoffs
2012:  6-10, No Playoffs
2013:  Injured, Did Not Play
2014:  Allowed to Leave Team, middling and minimal success since as a #2.

When we look at the results, the "Generational Talent" and #1/#1 has not produced much more than the mediocre risky #5 pick (2nd QB taken).  Sanchez reached one more AFCCG, Luck had one more very good year.  Both have suffered injuries.  Both may wind up never winning anything with the teams that drafted them.

We could add Matt Stafford to this comparison as well (as Stafford was a #1/#1) and the point would be further reinforced.

It is not about being teh #1/#1, it's about finding a QB talented enough to win, and surrounding him with talent and a system that will help that QB win.

Sanchez, who I have little respect for, got to two AFCCG's.  Luck, an amazing talent, only got to one.  When both lost the talent around them, or the system stopped supporting them, turned into .500 type QB's.  

Point is, yes, it'd be great to have our pick of the litter, and get the hyped up "best" guy in the 2018 Draft.

But picking later does not mean we're doomed.  If we pick in the top 10, or even top 15, there is every chance in this, "the deepest QB draft since 1983", that we can select a QB who has the potential to be a legit franchise QB.  If he becomes one will be as much on the GM and the surrounding talent and Coaches as it will be on the kid QB himself.

Cmon. Are you really comparing those two?? Why compare Stafford along with Sanchez, let alone Luck.  The point right there is that Sanchez is holding a clipboard while the other 2 are still starting and giving their team hope each year. The position is filled and doesn't have to be worried about. The rest is up to the GM to fill out the roster. They're not drafting a QB every year in hopes to find the right guy. 

Of course you can find a talented QBs in any round at any point. Point is, you better your chance when picking at the very top. A crap load of luck is needed after that. 

[August]

The season is going the way I want it to for the most part. We're actually competitive and playing hard. 

[JohnnyLV]

How can anyone find something negative in that? I am excited about our young players and some of the foundation we are setting. Interestingly some of the players making the most impact are not the draft picks but some of the late moves Mac made.

Being positive does not change the fact that the HC needs to report to the GM.  There is only one Belichick and maybe a couple others where you can justify any other structure

 

[Philc1]

If 3-3 is great what is the Chiefs starting 5-0?  God-like?

[ChuckkieB]

The 3-3 record completely distorts the reality of this team. 

 - Two gift wins against bad teams. Record could easily be e 1-5.

 - Our head coach has gotten out coached in every game so far

 - Lack of high level talent at any of the skill potions on offense 

 - A defense that puts ZERO pressure on the QB.

Lets not forget that this is year three for the GM and coach.  How the owner can be happy with this is beyond me.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I just don't think KC likes Smith that much.  I can't see how anybody would say he was "on the way out and getting old" He is 6 months younger than Rodgers, signed pretty cheaply through the 2018 season and playing the best football of his career.

remember he became a starter as a rookie in 2005, Rodgers sat out his first 3 years behind Favre- that is a huge difference so while their ages may be close Smith started taking NFL abuse a lot sooner and isn't Smith a FA after this season?

4 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Yep.

And I'm not saying that we should go the FA/trade route. I just think it's an option that shouldn't be automatically discounted.

Ideally I'd still like to draft a QB. I just don't believe we have to have the first pick to find a good one. We've had plenty of opportunities to take ones who turned out to be good, and we've passed on them for D-Linemen and safeties. The problem we've had hasn't been where we've picked in the draft. It's who we've picked. 

There are many ways to get a starting QB in this league, it's obviously more expensive to go FA route and rarely do good QBs shake free but it does happen.  w/ the draft it's a crapshoot, 1998 doesn't happen w/o getting Vinny off the scrapheap.

3 hours ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Looking solely at who won the Super Bowl and their respective draft position is shortsighted. Look at how many playoff teams there have been the last 15 years and then look at how many times those teams had a highly drafted QB. It's not just about winning one super bowl, but being in contention every year for a decade and a half. 

 

let's looks at playoff teams since 2000 and see how many had top 10 picks at QB:

*=top 5 pick drafted by that team or acquired by them on draft day like Eli

2000:

AFC: Miami- Jay Fielder, Indy- Peyton*, Titans- McNair*, Ravens- Dilfer, Oakland- Gannon, Denver- Griese

NFC: NYG-Collins, Philly- McNabb*, Minny-Culpepper, TB-Shaun King, NO- Blake/Brooks, SL- Warner

of 12 PO teams 3 were top 10 picks, those 3 picks went 1-3

2001:

AFC: NE-Brady, NYJ-Vinny, Mia-Fiedler, Pitt-Stewart, Bal- Grbac, Oak-Gannon

NFC: phi-McNabb*, Chi-Jim MIller, GB- Favre, TB-Brad Johnson, SL-Warner

Only ONE top 10 pick, went 2-1

2002:

AFC: NYJ-Pennington, Pitt-Stewart, Cle- Couch*/Holcombe(Couch didn't play in playoffs), Ten-McNair*, Ind-Peyton*, Oak-Gannon

NFC: Phi-McNabb*, NYG-Collins, GB-Favre, TB- Johnson, Atl- Vick*, SF- Garcia

5 top 10 picks if you count Couch, he started most of the year but did not start playoff game.  those 5 QBs went 3-5

2003:

AFC: NE-Brady, Bal-Boller/Wright, Indy-Peyton*, Ten-McNair*, KC-Trent Green, Den-Jake Plummer

NFC: Phi-McNabb*, Dall-Quincy Carter, GB-Favre, Car-Delhomme, SL-Marc Bulger, Sea-Matt Hasselbeck

total of 3, record was 4-3

2004:

AFC: NE-Brady, NYJ-Pennington, Pitt-Ben, Ind-Peyton*, SD-Brees, Den-Plummer

NFC: Phi-McNabb*, GB-Favre, Min-Culpepper, Atl-Vick*, Sae-Hasselbeck, SL-Bulger

3 total, 4-3

2005:

AFC: NE-Brady, Cin-Palmer*, Pitt-Ben, Ind-Peyton*, Jax-Leftwich*, Den-Plummer

NFC: NYG-Eli*, Was- Brunell, Chi-Kyle Orton, TB-Simms/Griese, car-Delhomme, Sea-Hasselbeck

4 total, 0-4 record

2006:

AFC: NE-Brady, NYJ-Pennington, Bal-McNair, Ind-Peyton*, SD-Rivers*, KC-Green/Huard

NFC: Phi-McNabb*, NYG-Eli*, Dal-Romo, Chi-Grossman, NO-Brees, Sea-Hasselbeck

4 total, 4-3. Peyton(his defense) won SB.

I'll do the rest later or tomorrow but are we seeing a picture?

from 2000-2006 top 10 picks made the playoffs 23 times out of 84 possible slots, won one SB, record was 18-15

 

does this give us an idea?

[jeremy2020]

14 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Carson Palmer from Oakland to Arz in 2013. The Cards have had a winning record w/him as a starter since except for last year.

Denver Broncos acquired Peyton Manning in 2013 and he took them to the SuperBowl that year. 

Drew Brees to New Orleans as a UFA in 2006 

I'd take issue with Carson Palmer being a franchise QB. He's an average QB which is very valuable, but does not fall under what I'd consider a franchise QB.

I'd also say that Manning was not a franchise QB at the time. Again, a good QB, but anyone who thought he was more than 1-3 year stopgap was fooling themselves. He wasn't even the starter the whole time there.

[nyjunc]

15 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The 3-3 record completely distorts the reality of this team. 

 - Two gift wins against bad teams. Record could easily be e 1-5.

 - Our head coach has gotten out coached in every game so far

 - Lack of high level talent at any of the skill potions on offense 

 - A defense that puts ZERO pressure on the QB.

Lets not forget that this is year three for the GM and coach.  How the owner can be happy with this is beyond me.

record could easily be 5-1 too, the only blowouts were the loss to Oak and the win vs. Miami.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'd also say that Manning was not a franchise QB at the time. Again, a good QB, but anyone who thought he was more than 1-3 year stopgap was fooling themselves. He wasn't even the starter the whole time there.

Are you serious?  Manning was first team all pro his first two years in Denver, pro bowl his first three years there. Yes, he missed some starts with the foot, but he started 10 games, went 8-2 and played every single snap of the playoffs and super bowl.  If only we could find a ******* 1-3 year stopgap that could win the super bowl in their 4th year.  I wish we had a GM that could get fooled like that.

[Gas2No99]

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you serious?  Manning was first team all pro his first two years in Denver, pro bowl his first three years there. Yes, he missed some starts with the foot, but he started 10 games, went 8-2 and played every single snap of the playoffs and super bowl.  If only we could find a ******* 1-3 year stopgap that could win the super bowl in their 4th year.  I wish we had a GM that could get fooled like that.

he was along for the ride for that SB, he didn't win them anything.  he was great(until January as usual) his first few years w/ them but he was awful during their SB run.

[The Crusher]

45 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he was along for the ride for that SB, he didn't win them anything.  he was great(until January as usual) his first few years w/ them but he was awful during their SB run.

Unlike his brother Eli, Peyton withered in big games. One of the greatest regular season QBs of our time but a post season choker. Eli very pedestrian in regular season, if not lack luster during the regular season. But DAMN, put that goofy bastard into the Superbowl and he brings home the Lombardi.." every single damn time!" Truly amazing. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

he was along for the ride for that SB, he didn't win them anything.  he was great(until January as usual) his first few years w/ them but he was awful during their SB run.

I don't give a good flying **** about your analysis.  I will ask you two questions.  Answer them and don't extrapolate or add any of your bullsh*t eye test.

Who took every post-season snap for the Broncos after the 2015 season? 

Did the Broncos win the Super Bowl after the 2015 season? 

I rest my ******* case.