Cimini on rookie safeties

[AFJF]

Sorry...can only post link right now.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/72324/plenty-of-bad-performances-but-how-bout-those-rookie-safeties

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

good read, Cimini can still write when he takes the time, guess that game fired him up

also a shout out to mo, nice to see him step up

[Larz]

ESPN cimini is like he had his coffee and just got laid lol

[BurnleyJet]

Dicks right for a change.

[dbatesman]

SOJFs looking pretty ****en stupid right now

[Dinamite]

An interesting point Cimini sort of makes is how the OL got worse once Brandon Shell left with an injury.  That was noticeable how much more pressure McCown was under afterwards.

[CrazyCarl40]

57 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

SOJFs looking pretty ****en stupid right now

I love how Cimini’s good when it supports the narrative and a troll when it doesn’t. 

[Maxman]

18 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I love how Cimini’s good when it supports the narrative and a troll when it doesn’t. 

Cimini is frustrating. To me he is the cranky uncle. He has been the most talented beat writer for a long time. Hey may have trolled back int he day but it is nothing compared to what some of the new guys do now. But he was ahead of his time with stats break downs, play counts, things like that.

Most of my frustration with Cimini comes from the fact that he blocked @JetNation. Which leaves me yearning for his validation. 

But that is an issue I will continue to try and work out offline lol.

[CrazyCarl40]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Cimini is frustrating. To me he is the cranky uncle. He has been the most talented beat writer for a long time. Hey may have trolled back int he day but it is nothing compared to what some of the new guys do now. But he was ahead of his time with stats break downs, play counts, things like that.

Most of my frustration with Cimini comes from the fact that he blocked @JetNation. Which leaves me yearning for his validation. 

But that is an issue I will continue to try and work out offline lol.

I sat next to him on a plane coming back from the Bills/Jets game in Detroit a few years ago. Nice enough guy. I watched him write an article that appeared later on ESPN. He would right something completely fair and then delete it and rewrite it to be a little more inflammatory. 

[Beerfish]

lol, mo wilk gets big credit for hustling on one play and getting and int because he is pushed off the line of scrimmage and getting 'a QB hit'.

Safeties looked very good last game, unfortunate that we have to blitz Adams if we have have to get a pass rush thus leaving the likes of skrine exposed.

[Hael]

The Safeties didn’t have a great first half, but they made up for it in the second.  Adams gets exposed in coverage sometimes and seems a little more prone to making mental mistakes than Maye.  They did give up some tds but I love the sack and some of the talent flashes.

[prime21]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I love how Cimini’s good when it supports the narrative and a troll when it doesn’t. 

Same goes for Jet reporters and local radio jocks.

[prime21]

 

9 minutes ago, Hael said:

The Safeties didn’t have a great first half, but they made up for it in the second.  Adams gets exposed in coverage sometimes and seems a little more prone to making mental mistakes than Maye.  They did give up some tds but I love the sack and some of the talent flashes.

This is probably because Adams is utilized differently than Maye.  He seems to be all over the field in different roles and more visible on the camera screen to us.    

[JustInFudge]

It is encouraging that it looks like the rookie safeties belong in the NFL.  It is not encouraging that the Defense is absolutely horrible and has given up the most passing TD's in the NFL.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

It is encouraging that it looks like the rookie safeties belong in the NFL.  It is not encouraging that the Defense is absolutely horrible and has given up the most passing TD's in the NFL.

 

That's a bit dubious to me because you can have a passing TD of 1 yard. How long are these TD passes?

[Warfish]

Deshaun Watson + Maye >  Allen + Maye

Taking ONE Safety is fine.  

Taking two, when we were/are as weak at QB as we were/are, and with the only solution getting exceptionally UNLucky and getting the #1/#1 pick, is unforgivable.

Allen can never be as vital as a franchise QB.  And clearly the risk Macc took, that we'd get a guy in 2018, is not playing out how fans wanted it to, no Darnold, no QB Allen.

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Deshaun Watson + Maye >  Allen + Maye

Taking ONE Safety is fine.  

Taking two, when we were/are as weak at QB as we were/are, and with the only solution getting exceptionally UNLucky and getting the #1/#1 pick, is unforgivable.

Allen can never be as vital as a franchise QB.  And clearly the risk Macc took, that we'd get a guy in 2018, is not playing out how fans wanted it to, no Darnold, no QB Allen.

I get the logic and I agree with you. But if both are playing well, you cant really complain without seeming petty and greedy. That's the problem I have. If Adams was really really struggling, then I think it's fair game to roast Macc. But he is playing well. So it just comes off of as being ungrateful and unfair.

 

 

[peebag]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Deshaun Watson + Maye >  Allen + Maye

Taking ONE Safety is fine.  

Taking two, when we were/are as weak at QB as we were/are, and with the only solution getting exceptionally UNLucky and getting the #1/#1 pick, is unforgivable.

Allen can never be as vital as a franchise QB.  And clearly the risk Macc took, that we'd get a guy in 2018, is not playing out how fans wanted it to, no Darnold, no QB Allen.

Hindsight is 20/20.  Nobody expected Watson to play at this level.

[UnitedWhofans]

I have seen only one media person bring up the fact that the Jets passed up on Watson for Adams. And that was Steve Serby in an article. Nobody else has mentioned it. Which tells me that most people dont care.

Probably because Watson was devalued going into that draft. Same with Prescott. 

[Warfish]

42 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I get the logic and I agree with you. But if both are playing well, you cant really complain without seeming petty and greedy.

Yes, I can.  Safeties are irrelevant to winning titles.  We picked poorly, no matter how good a minor player like our starting Strong Safety may or may not be.

42 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's the problem I have. If Adams was really really struggling, then I think it's fair game to roast Macc. But he is playing well. So it just comes off of as being ungrateful and unfair.

By this logic, had Macc drafted a Punter at #6 and a Kicker in the 2nd, we wouldn't be allowed to complain if both were punting/kicking really well?

Lol, no my friend.  We had a possible franchise QB sitting in our laps, and our supposed "brilliant scout mind" Macc sh*t the bed, and drafted two, not one, but TWO safeties.

Again, this is not criticism of Allen or Maye, this is criticism against Macc as a GM and his priorities and planning.

[Warfish]

40 minutes ago, peebag said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Nobody expected Watson to play at this level.

It's not hindsight if you believed it before he was drafted.  As I did.

Kid had everything he needed to be legit.  And it was obvious to folks who didn't think the radar gun was a disqualifier for an NFL QB.

Personality, experience, talent, attitude, Watson was a complete package.

And Macc (and the fans here who said "no, wait for Darnold!") were 100% wrong.

[rangerous]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, I can.  Safeties are irrelevant to winning titles.  We picked poorly, no matter how good a minor player like our starting Strong Safety may or may not be.

By this logic, had Macc drafted a Punter at #6 and a Kicker in the 2nd, we wouldn't be allowed to complain if both were punting/kicking really well?

Lol, no my friend.  We had a possible franchise QB sitting in our laps, and our supposed "brilliant scout mind" Macc sh*t the bed, and drafted two, not one, but TWO safeties.

Again, this is not criticism of Allen or Maye, this is criticism against Macc as a GM and his priorities and planning.

of course a punter isn't going be valued as highly as a safety.  frankly a safety shouldn't be valued as highly as a qb.  but the point that watson is doing well is overshadowed by the simple fact that he wouldn't be starting for the jets even if he were picked and picking him would've meant getting rid of petty or hack.  a lot of people think that petty/hack are useless and that may be true but there are only a couple of voices that matter and one is mac and the other bowles. watson landed into a good situation with the texans. imagine they were going into the season with savage at qb.

[Bleedin Green]

40 minutes ago, peebag said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Nobody expected Watson to play at this level.

Yeah, as much as I really wish the Jets had Watson right now, it's definitely nothing more than pure hindsight at this point.  I have no particular praise for Maccagnan, but that's not because of one pick I now wish he would have made.  Watson wasn't even the next QB to come off the board after the Jets picked, that was Mahomes.  This is basically a repeat of those who were saying the Jets should have drafted Carr over Pryor, which obviously would have been a much, much better move, but there's no reason to believe anything like that would have been considered by any team at the time.  It definitely sucks, and I wish the Jets had GMs/scouts who were smarter than others, in order to make those kind of moves, but there's no evidence to suggest it was ever a consideration, or Watson would not have fallen to 12.

[UnitedWhofans]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's not hindsight if you believed it before he was drafted.  As I did.

Kid had everything he needed to be legit.  And it was obvious to folks who didn't think the radar gun was a disqualifier for an NFL QB.

Personality, experience, talent, attitude, Watson was a complete package.

And Macc (and the fans here who said "no, wait for Darnold!") were 100% wrong.

So the majority of people in front offices and experts were wrong. Fair enough. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Deshaun Watson + Maye >  Allen + Maye

Taking ONE Safety is fine.  

Taking two, when we were/are as weak at QB as we were/are, and with the only solution getting exceptionally UNLucky and getting the #1/#1 pick, is unforgivable.

Allen can never be as vital as a franchise QB.  And clearly the risk Macc took, that we'd get a guy in 2018, is not playing out how fans wanted it to, no Darnold, no QB Allen.

So if we had gone Adams + Kizer that would have been better even though Kizer looks awful? It's very easy to judge a draft after the players have played. Watson was taken 12th. 11 teams foolishly passed on him including teams that needed a QB like the Jets/Browns/Bears/Niners. Teams like Arizona/Baltimore didn't think Watson was good enough to trade up a few spots. 

I regret not drafting Brady/Wilson/Rodgers/Dak also , but what Jets fans never realize is that many teams passed on those players as well. At least we have Jamal Adams to show for it. He may not be as valuable as Watson, but that is why the draft is a crap shoot. In the end, I am a firm believer in just evaluating the players the Jets take and not crying about "What if's." If you do that with every draft you will look back and be disappointed.

We could have draft Desean Watson in the 1st. Kamara in Rd2 and Hunt in Rd3 and been an elite offense this year. Hindsight is always 20/20

[UnitedWhofans]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, I can.  Safeties are irrelevant to winning titles.  We picked poorly, no matter how good a minor player like our starting Strong Safety may or may not be.

By this logic, had Macc drafted a Punter at #6 and a Kicker in the 2nd, we wouldn't be allowed to complain if both were punting/kicking really well?

Lol, no my friend.  We had a possible franchise QB sitting in our laps, and our supposed "brilliant scout mind" Macc sh*t the bed, and drafted two, not one, but TWO safeties.

Again, this is not criticism of Allen or Maye, this is criticism against Macc as a GM and his priorities and planning.

Okay. So you tell your significant other "Honey, I love you. You're a good person. But the flashy blonde across the street makes more money than you so I want to break up"

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

6 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So the majority of people in front offices and experts were wrong. Fair enough. 

as are meteorologists and batters in baseball, get it right > 50% of the time and you can make history

[JetFaninMI]

7 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Okay. So you tell your significant other "Honey, I love you. You're a good person. But the flashy blonde across the street makes more money than you so I want to break up"

[Il Mostro]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

ESPN cimini is like he had his coffee and just got laid lol

Or he is in his post coffee-enema bliss...

[pointman]

13 hours ago, Hael said:

The Safeties didn’t have a great first half, but they made up for it in the second.  Adams gets exposed in coverage sometimes and seems a little more prone to making mental mistakes than Maye.  They did give up some tds but I love the sack and some of the talent flashes.

Maye is the stud. Adams is just a bigger mouth.

[pointman]

12 hours ago, peebag said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Nobody expected Watson to play at this level.

Fans did. His college coach did. He was a winner. All these "experts" made judgments and once again fall short.

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, pointman said:

Fans did. His college coach did. He was a winner. All these "experts" made judgments and once again fall short.

Fans are never accountable for everything wrong that they say and go off of limited knowledge. There’s nothing at stake so fan opinion is worthless.

College coaches have their players back 99% of the time. Many of them believe they’ve coached up Dan Marino or at least they’ll tell you that. 

Matt leinart, Greg McIlroy, Vince Young, AJ McCarron, Cardale Jones, Jason White were all winners too. 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, rangerous said:

of course a punter isn't going be valued as highly as a safety.  frankly a safety shouldn't be valued as highly as a qb.  but the point that watson is doing well is overshadowed by the simple fact that he wouldn't be starting for the jets even if he were picked and picking him would've meant getting rid of petty or hack.  a lot of people think that petty/hack are useless and that may be true but there are only a couple of voices that matter and one is mac and the other bowles. watson landed into a good situation with the texans. imagine they were going into the season with savage at qb.

Why on earth wouldn't Watson be starting for the Jets? Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg getting stuck behind NFL veterans doesn't therefore mean any drafted QB would be a similar afterthought. What it means is the team thinks Petty and Hackenberg stink on ice, nothing more.

Watson is already much better than either of them are likely to ever be, so the comparison is nonsensical. Benching bad, young QBs doesn't therefore mean good, young QBs would also be benched. 

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why on earth wouldn't Watson be starting for the Jets? Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg getting stuck behind NFL veterans doesn't therefore mean any drafted QB would be a similar afterthought. What it means is the team thinks Petty and Hackenberg stink on ice, nothing more.

Watson is already much better than either of them are likely to ever be, so the comparison is nonsensical. Benching bad, young QBs doesn't therefore mean good, young QBs would also be benched. 

he might be the right starter but remember they signed mccown in march and they have shown a reluctance to start rookies so i doubt watson would've been the starter from day one. i'm not sure what kind of training camp watson had but he didn't beat out savage.  savage is not that good either.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

he might be the right starter but remember they signed mccown in march and they have shown a reluctance to start rookies so i doubt watson would've been the starter from day one. i'm not sure what kind of training camp watson had but he didn't beat out savage.  savage is not that good either.

I'm not impressed by Bowles, but that is largely a fan myth. Rookies - particularly in the first half of their rookie seasons - are typically buried behind better overall players and/or players who bring more to the table than a casual fan sees. And even when there wasn't, there's been no reluctance to starting their first round picks. None. 

Go list the rookies they've been "reluctant" to start, and ask yourself which ones deserved to start from day one (over the players who did start). And no, benching raw rookies Hackenberg and Petty don't count.

The list is short, and it's certainly not filled with many slam dunk examples. If anything, for some early round players, I've seen some force-feeding of guys who clearly weren't yet ready for the playing time given (D.Smith, D.Lee, Jenkins).

The worst "crimes" you could come up with in the first 2 years are rookies Juston Burris and Brandon Shell not starting or seeing significant playing time until the last quarter of the season, or McGuire this year (and as much as I'd like to see more of him over Forte, it's convenient for fans to only look at his handoffs and ignore plays where they need him to be a receiver or a blocker as well as less tangible benefits his experience brings). So, meh to that list.