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14 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

If you watch the replay of the 2016 draft when the Jets pick Lee Bowles is heard saying to Lee on the phone as the camera was in the war room mic'd up "I told you we would be talking again, and we would get you in here" that kinda supports the Bowles has a lot of say into the high draft picks, and probably high priority FA's.

I think it's hard to infer anything from this.  Do you think he would get on the phone with Paxton Lynch and say, "I think it's ridiculous we took you.  You're probably going to fail."  Had we drafted Lynch, surely there'd be video which would make it look like it was the plan all along to do so, or at least that we were pretty damn happy we got him.

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29 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Assigning blame is an interesting intellectual exercise, but nothing more than that. Both Maccagnan and Bowles look completely out of their depth. Neither should have a job come New Year’s Day.

This 100%.  They both look out of their depth and it looks like they work hand in hand when it comes to building a roster.  

Remember, Todd Bowles announced Ryan Fitzpatrick the starter the day after he choked away the playoffs, when Fitz was not even on the roster and what transpired from there was an all offseason long negotiation/beg fest for Fitz to comeback. 

 

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2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I guess the issue I have is that there's nothing stating Bowles's defensive philosophy can't be successful.  I think it still comes down to specific choices.  Bowles says, "I need my Deon Bucannon".  Macc needs to say, "No problem, but Darron Lee isn't that guy and we're not going for him in round one, but we'll try to find someone who fits that archetype."

Same with Rex/Idzik.  Nothing wrong with Rex wanting a top corner, but it's Idzik and his scouts who need to be responsible for saying, "Dee Milliner is not the guy."

Agreed.

I have no issue with a HC wanting a Bucannon type guy, or a top corner, as long as they are competent enough to understand that you need to build a whole football team, and not pass on a franchise QB to get one, when you have Geno Smith, or Hackenberg, or name your other sh*tty QB. I don't believe Rex or Bowles to be that type of HC, and I believe both are more interest

My question is, if Bowles is saying I need a Bucannon type guy, and the GM/scouts are saying, yeah, but we need a QB, who wins?

If you listen to the quotes from Bowles saying, we would never pick a 1st round player without him being able to start on day 1, it would seem to be Bowles wins. When you see us going all out for Asomwah (spelling, lol), you start to know who wins.

 

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2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think it's hard to infer anything from this.  Do you think he would get on the phone with Paxton Lynch and say, "I think it's ridiculous we took you.  You're probably going to fail."  Had we drafted Lynch, surely there'd be video which would make it look like it was the plan all along to do so, or at least that we were pretty damn happy we got him.

BTW, Paxton Lynch cant get past TREVOR SIMEAN!

Jets fans were INCENSED that they didn't draft him

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Just now, JiF said:

This 100%.  They both look out of their depth and it looks like they work hand in hand when it comes to building a roster.  

Remember, Todd Bowles announced Ryan Fitzpatrick the starter the day after he choked away the playoffs, when Fitz was not even on the roster and what transpired from there was an all offseason long negotiation/beg fest for Fitz to comeback. 

 

If they are out of their depth, why are they 3-4? Why arent they 0-7

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2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Thats dumb. And stupid. And totally in the range of this dumb fanbase.

Yes - smart fans such as yourself know that when you're heading into the season with a Josh McCown at QB, it's a not a reflection on the GM that he passed on a QB playing at a high level for a strong safety who looks decent.

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Just now, gEYno said:

Yes - smart fans such as yourself know that when you're heading into the season with a Josh McCown at QB, it's a not a reflection on the GM that he passed on a QB playing at a high level for a strong safety who looks decent.

Okay. Jets draft Watson. He gets sacked a ton playing behind a meh OL and he's out for the season. How do you like that motif?

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1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

I have no issue with a HC wanting a Bucannon type guy, or a top corner, as long as they are competent enough to understand that you need to build a whole football team, and not pass on a franchise QB to get one, when you have Geno Smith, or Hackenberg, or name your other sh*tty QB. I don't believe Rex or Bowles to be that type of HC, and I believe both are more interest

My question is, if Bowles is saying I need a Bucannon type guy, and the GM/scouts are saying, yeah, but we need a QB, who wins?

If you listen to the quotes from Bowles saying, we would never pick a 1st round player without him being able to start on day 1, it would seem to be Bowles wins. When you see us going all out for Asomwah (spelling, lol), you start to know who wins.

But, the GM, at least by job description, is supposed to win.  If he doesn't, why is he in the building?  What is Mac actually doing?  That's a serious question.

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Remember, Todd Bowles announced Ryan Fitzpatrick the starter the day after he choked away the playoffs, when Fitz was not even on the roster and what transpired from there was an all offseason long negotiation/beg fest for Fitz to comeback. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Darron Lee and double down safeties, players that "fit the system" scream Todd Bowles.  

Agree completely, its hard to ignore these things. Its fun to kill Mac as the traditional GM, but all indications are that he is not a traditional GM, and more of a puppet.

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I want consistency at both Head Coach and at QB.

But Todd Bowles is not the man to be consist with, nor is Petty or Hack the QB to be consistent with.

I hope, unlikely though it may be, that 2018 will usher in a GM-hired, reports to GM Head Coach, and a new young drafted QB, that we can build the next 5+ years around.

 

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2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Okay. Jets draft Watson. He gets sacked a ton playing behind a meh OL and he's out for the season. How do you like that motif?

Good point.  Never draft a QB because he might get sacked and hurt.  Good thing no other players at other positions get hurt.

Also, motif is a strange word choice that doesn't make sense in this context.  Just as an aside, because you fancy yourself as smarter than the rest of the fan base.

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1 minute ago, gEYno said:

But, the GM, at least by job description, is supposed to win.  If he doesn't, why is he in the building?  What is Mac actually doing?  That's a serious question.

I don't know that there is a fixed one sized fits all job desc for GM's in the NFL. Some are much more administrative, cap type guys, some are scout type guys, some are head of football ops type guys. My guess is Mac brings the guys his scouts like to Bowles, and then Bowles makes the choices. But I don't think that Mac can pick a Watson over an Adams if that is the direction Bowls wants to go, just like he couldn't pick a Paxton Lynch over Darron Lee if that was the direction Bowles wanted to go. I think Mac handles the contracts, the scouting, and the day to day admin stuff of a GM.

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2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

BEcause it shows that Jets fans are just as idiotic as the GM and coach as they claim to hate.

So why should you have the right to complain when you couldnt do any better?

Your loved one dies on the table during surgery due to malpractice.  Why should you have the right to complain if you couldn't perform the surgery any better?

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1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Good point.  Never draft a QB because he might get sacked and hurt.  Good thing no other players at other positions get hurt.

Also, motif is a strange word choice that doesn't make sense in this context.  Just as an aside, because you fancy yourself as smarter than the rest of the fan base.

No no no. Get the QB last. Build a competitive team around him AND THEN draft a QB.

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Of course I have, but for example, the whole Paxton Lynch thing was reported by Schefter on Sirius and reported by posters here. There were numerous quotes from Bowles about Darron Lee and Adams and how much they will help our team.

I don't believe Bowles is making these decisions in a vacuum, but I do believe Woody has subscribed to the Parcels, let the chef pick the groceries. Which I actually mostly believe in too. I just think you need a good chef.

Maybe you are right. But when I look for articles or leaks or any info that states this, the search results come up with links to this board. 

It may all be completely true, that Bowles is picking the players, but I believe it's just based on assumptions or opinions.

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Is that the goal.  Two AFC Championship appearances and then obscurity?

It's better than having your season rely on the arm of one man who could step the wrong way and the season is over.

The problem with Mark was that he never got any better after that. But if you pick a guy that does, you're set. That's the key.

 

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18 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

If Watson continues to play at the level he is playing, regardless of whose choice it was, Bowles or Maccagnan to not draft him and take Adams, it will be the death nail for Maccangan. The media will kill him for it the entire season

Eh. I don't see that happening. Tho I'm sure when they get bored, it'll make for an easy article but I think media will kill the Browns more so then anyone. 

If Jets drafted Watson, they'd probably treat him how Trubisky is playing right now. Complete 3 passes and call it a good day! 

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4 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Maybe you are right. But when I look for articles or leaks or any info that states this, the search results come up with links to this board. 

It may all be completely true, that Bowles is picking the players, but I believe it's just based on assumptions or opinions.

I think most of what we post here is based on assumptions and opinions. We take bits and pieces of information that we get, try to decipher it, and then make decisions and opinions and post them. Very little can be backed by 100% fact becasue we are not in the rooms. 

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6 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I don't know that there is a fixed one sized fits all job desc for GM's in the NFL. Some are much more administrative, cap type guys, some are scout type guys, some are head of football ops type guys. My guess is Mac brings the guys his scouts like to Bowles, and then Bowles makes the choices. But I don't think that Mac can pick a Watson over an Adams if that is the direction Bowls wants to go, just like he couldn't pick a Paxton Lynch over Darron Lee if that was the direction Bowles wanted to go. I think Mac handles the contracts, the scouting, and the day to day admin stuff of a GM.

I think the GM's job is final say, even if they are more "cap guys."  Outside of some of the HC legends, I'm not certain what HCs have final say.  Scouts report to Mac and Bowles, and the rest of the coaches, decisions are made as a team.  I feel like if Macc didn't have final say, we'd have heard about it by now.

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Just now, gEYno said:

I think the GM's job is final say, even if they are more "cap guys."  Outside of some of the HC legends, I'm not certain what HCs have final say.  Scouts report to Mac and Bowles, and the rest of the coaches, decisions are made as a team.  I feel like if Macc didn't have final say, we'd have heard about it by now.

You certainly may be right. Its also possible that Mac and Bowles have to come to some consensus, with Woody or his brother being the tie breaker, we don't know for sure.

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2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

It's better than having your season rely on the arm of one man who could step the wrong way and the season is over.

The problem with Mark was that he never got any better after that. But if you pick a guy that does, you're set. That's the key.

 

Gotcha, build a Super Bowl caliber franchise and then find a franchise QB to match, and make sure he hits his window of development before the team gets too old/expensive.

Is that all?  Seems easy.

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4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No no no. Get the QB last. Build a competitive team around him AND THEN draft a QB.

Cool, so we just need, at minimum, a C, RB, TE, WR, LT, OLB, CB, ILB.  Then we can draft a QB!  Of course, by the time we get those guys, the contracts for Carpenter, Williams, Kearse and a bunch of others will be up, so we will need to fill those slots before we draft a QB.  This plan is progressing nicely. 

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17 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If they are out of their depth, why are they 3-4? Why arent they 0-7

Whofans, this is a great question that only the greatest of minds could answer.  Unfortunately, I'm not that person.  The only hypothesis that I have is that similar to the Jets, some other teams in the league are not very good at Football with questionable and limited talent.  There are also teams in the league similar to the Jets with bad QB's.  The way the NFL schedule is formed, sometimes those teams meet in head to head competition.  And because only 2 teams are involved in this competition and they only play 1 game, one team has to win.  Often times, even though victoriouss, the outcome doesn't necessarily translate to meaning that things are good.

But again, this question is for someone much smarter than I.

 

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Cool, so we just need, at minimum, a C, RB, TE, WR, LT, OLB, CB, ILB.  Then we can draft a QB!  Of course, by the time we get those guys, the contracts for Carpenter, Williams, Kearse and a bunch of others will be up, so we will need to fill those slots before we draft a QB.  This plan is progressing nicely. 

We need a C and an OLB. Everything else we already have

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