"Awful QB Play Making NFL Games Hard to Watch"

[DMan77]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/too-many-bad-teams-awful-quarterback-play-making-nfl-games-hard-to-watch/

"This downturn in the number of eyeballs watching closely every Sunday and Monday and Thursday is more directly related, in my opinion, to the fact that the number of quarterbacks you would pay big bucks to see in a game with no rooting interest seems to be shrinking by the week."

Here's my opinion on this... The NFL has made the QB position the most important position in all of sports by miles... And now that the talent doesn't match, they're ratings and fan interest is going up in smoke.

I've read a lot of these "there's so many bad QBs out there!" articles. And while that's true, it shouldn't matter as much as it does. The NFL tailored the game to protect the QBs and make them gods among men on the field, and now that there's just moderate talent out there, they're screwed... It's not a team sport anymore. It's a QB and then a team sport. That was by design, and they're paying for it now in ratings, interest, and money.

People often accuse me of just being jealous that the Jets don't have a Brady or Manning or Brees... Which of course I am... But even if we had one of those guys I'd still think the QB position is far too important for a 'team' game... I'd love to get back to a time when you could win with just a good QB, and not need some elite star to even matter... But until then I'll just keep hoping the Jets find one. 

[rex-n-effect]

What was this golden time when an elite QB wasn't at the helm of the most successful teams?

[jetscrazey]

3 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

What was this golden time when an elite QB wasn't at the helm of the most successful teams?

While there is some truth to this, in the 80s/90s it wasn't nearly as disparate.  In the modern era it's almost like the receivers don't matter if you have a great QB.  Aaron Rodgers has never really had a true #1 WR.  Peyton Manning threw TDs to the likes of Jacob Tamme and Austin Collie.  Tom Brady throws them to whatever white guy they find off the street that is shifty.  Antonio Brown is a really talented WR but you think he'd be putting up numbers like that if McCown is his QB?  Being paired with Roethlisberger is what makes him next-level great.

[pdxgreen]

Hmmmm.  Maybe the NFL should look into some player development on their end. If you have all these Spread Option and Air Raid QB's that can't hack it in the NFL, but yet the owners pay absolutely nothing for their development..... What right do they have to complain when the milk turns sour?  Baseball has had the minor league system as an alternative to college athletics for decades.  The NBA has the G League and is planning to do away with the one and done rule.  If lack of skilled labor is hurting the NFL's bottom line, they have only themselves to blame for not addressing the issue earlier.  Tough ____.

[Adoni Beast]

NFL needs two things to fix this, as their entire product has been in decline:

- Developmental league.

- Re-negotiated cba allowing for more practices, longer practices, and optional off season work. If a player and/or coach wants to train, practice, and study in Feb. So be it, leave it up to them. Don't make it against the rules as it currently is.

[LIJetsFan]

You can't have a developmental league is a sport that is this violent and injury prone.  You just can't.  The way to fix the game, if indeed a fix is needed, is thru rules changes.  Something as simple as some radical PI rules changes would immediately deemphasize the QB's impact on the outcome of the game.

However, this will never happen because the league likes the godlike QB aspect of the game.  Being a godlike QB has become every red blooded American males hero fantasy.  NFL is not about to give that up.       

[rangerous]

imo it's about who's driving whom.  in the past the nfl drove the way qb's played in college and now it's the other way around. how many of the recent group of qb's actually played behind center?  most are in shotgun formations and while that makes for a nice simple offense for the college game it doesn't always translate well to the nfl.  the defenses are just too good to let spread offenses really succeed. and the college oline players don't know how to run block very well. we'll see what happens. one possible result is you see the qb position become less expensive and also teams willing to change qb's more often.  some teams have tried situational substitution for qb's with some success.  maybe we'll see more of that.

[T0mShane]

no it’s kneeling

[Larz]

I know 3 people boycotting the nfl

Has nothing to do with QBR 

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

no it’s kneeling

Ok Tom enough with this crap. We all know Darron Lee is short. He is doing his best. 

[jeremy2020]

3 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

NFL needs two things to fix this, as their entire product has been in decline:

- Developmental league.

- Re-negotiated cba allowing for more practices, longer practices, and optional off season work. If a player and/or coach wants to train, practice, and study in Feb. So be it, leave it up to them. Don't make it against the rules as it currently is.

I'm not condoning the fewer practices in any way, but they make it against the rules because if it's not then someone will do it and get an advantage over someone who doesn't which means $$$ so they will all do it.

I find the limited practicing silly, but there is a reason they make it against the rules.

[greenwichjetfan]

Agree completely with the notion of a developmental league not being feasible. It's a great thought, but a thought is the furthest it will ever amount to.

The league always was and always will be QB centric. I disagree with the notion that this is a current phenomenon. What has changed is the way the rest of the game is played. Peyton v. Brady was one of the all time great rivalries, and while it garnered huge ratings, it also caused a few of the issues we're now seeing. The league's goal was to have offensive fireworks drive the sport, and they had two of the best to ever play as their mascots, so they went all in. It's resulted in an overemphasis on protecting QBs which results in decreased offensive holding penalties for teams with star QBs; which comes as a detriment to teams without star QBs, resulting in conflicts of interest pertaining to fair play. We see it week in and week out, league-wide. It also directly resulted in the increased defensive holding/PI penalties, and the introduction of ultra-casual fans that don't necessarily care about the sport, but tuned in because of the spectacle it had become. Those fans are no longer tuning in, and honestly, good riddance. 

Lastly, and this is not hyperbole, nor is it as biased as it may seem to anyone who knows my posting history: The year after Brady retires and subsequent years later, the league will see an uptick in fan interest. He, his team, and his franchise are a tired story, and frankly, one that mostly everyone outside of NE can't wait to go by the wayside.

[Adoni Beast]

35 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm not condoning the fewer practices in any way, but they make it against the rules because if it's not then someone will do it and get an advantage over someone who doesn't which means $$$ so they will all do it.

I find the limited practicing silly, but there is a reason they make it against the rules.

Yeah I get the rationale behind it. Same reasons there are unions, so employees don't get taken advantage of. I just think they need to increase the amount of practices and the duration of them, not give the coaches an infinite amount of time because then as you said they'll take advantage too much.

The amount they have now is not enough, and the product is suffering. I'm sure heres a happier medium.

[munchmemory]

For me, the problem this year is the high number of flags being thrown.  Most games are start-stop every two seconds for a penalty call.  This kills the flow of the game and makes them tough to watch and/or enjoy.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Yeah I get the rationale behind it. Same reasons there are unions, so employees don't get taken advantage of. I just think they need to increase the amount of practices and the duration of them, not give the coaches an infinite amount of time because then as you said they'll take advantage too much.

The amount they have now is not enough, and the product is suffering. I'm sure heres a happier medium.

The rationale behind was simple- the league office was willing to concede there because practice isnt/wasnt a revenue stream. Less practice time was the players #1 priority. I mean football practice pretty much sucks but its necessary. These guys went from practicing in pads twice a day for 2.5 hours to walk throughs in shorts. 

[section314]

I think the overall product in the NFL is as bad as I can ever remember it. There are so many lousy teams now it makes half the games every week almost unwatchable. Throw in the fact that the refs call so many penalties that there is no flow to most of the game and you have what we are watching every week......a terrible product.

[Adoni Beast]

33 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The rationale behind was simple- the league office was willing to concede there because practice isnt/wasnt a revenue stream. Less practice time was the players #1 priority. I mean football practice pretty much sucks but its necessary. These guys went from practicing in pads twice a day for 2.5 hours to walk throughs in shorts. 

Yup and now the product sucks.

[UntouchableCrew]

Honestly QB play in the NFL has never been better for the most part (as a direct result of the shift in rules.) In a down or injury plagued season you might see too many guys who can't play but the numbers and scoring are astronomical relative to when I was a kid.

I think dreadful officiating and changing consumer habits with regard to sitting through advertisements is hurting the game far more than bad QB play. 

[DMan77]

8 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

What was this golden time when an elite QB wasn't at the helm of the most successful teams?

 

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

While there is some truth to this, in the 80s/90s it wasn't nearly as disparate.  In the modern era it's almost like the receivers don't matter if you have a great QB.  Aaron Rodgers has never really had a true #1 WR.  Peyton Manning threw TDs to the likes of Jacob Tamme and Austin Collie.  Tom Brady throws them to whatever white guy they find off the street that is shifty.  Antonio Brown is a really talented WR but you think he'd be putting up numbers like that if McCown is his QB?  Being paired with Roethlisberger is what makes him next-level great.

Right. I'm not insinuating that there was a time when teams didn't need a talented QB... But it's on another level over the last 15+ years.

The level of importance of having an elite QB has only grown. It's always been an important position, of course, but now it's a literal franchise maker or breaker. And I just don't think one position should be that important. Not in a team sport. 

[shawn306]

8 hours ago, DMan77 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/too-many-bad-teams-awful-quarterback-play-making-nfl-games-hard-to-watch/

"This downturn in the number of eyeballs watching closely every Sunday and Monday and Thursday is more directly related, in my opinion, to the fact that the number of quarterbacks you would pay big bucks to see in a game with no rooting interest seems to be shrinking by the week."

Here's my opinion on this... The NFL has made the QB position the most important position in all of sports by miles... And now that the talent doesn't match, they're ratings and fan interest is going up in smoke.

I've read a lot of these "there's so many bad QBs out there!" articles. And while that's true, it shouldn't matter as much as it does. The NFL tailored the game to protect the QBs and make them gods among men on the field, and now that there's just moderate talent out there, they're screwed... It's not a team sport anymore. It's a QB and then a team sport. That was by design, and they're paying for it now in ratings, interest, and money.

People often accuse me of just being jealous that the Jets don't have a Brady or Manning or Brees... Which of course I am... But even if we had one of those guys I'd still think the QB position is far too important for a 'team' game... I'd love to get back to a time when you could win with just a good QB, and not need some elite star to even matter... But until then I'll just keep hoping the Jets find one. 

Totally agree with this.

There was a time, not that long ago where if you didn't have a great QB that you could still build your team and compete if you had say a hard hitting defense or a big time running game. Sadly though the days of "Doomsday", "The Steel Curtain", "The NY Sack Exchange" are gone. The rules changes have basically taken any kind of hard hitting, intimidating defense out of the game.

Other than maybe the Ravens vs Steelers what great team rivalries are out there ? Now it is all about Brady vs Manning, Brady vs Ryan, Big Ben vs Rodgers. When you would get games like Steelers vs Raiders or Dallas vs Washington, Green Bay vs Chicago, those were games that you did not miss because you knew the history between the two teams and you knew that they did not like each other.

That is the NFL I miss. This stuff I see now is nothing close to the sport that I loved.

 

[ZachEY]

5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

NFL needs two things to fix this, as their entire product has been in decline:

- Developmental league.

- Re-negotiated cba allowing for more practices, longer practices, and optional off season work. If a player and/or coach wants to train, practice, and study in Feb. So be it, leave it up to them. Don't make it against the rules as it currently is.

Why would any player be interested in renegotiating a cba that included longer and more practice?

[#27TheDominator]

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

While there is some truth to this, in the 80s/90s it wasn't nearly as disparate.  In the modern era it's almost like the receivers don't matter if you have a great QB.  Aaron Rodgers has never really had a true #1 WR.  Peyton Manning threw TDs to the likes of Jacob Tamme and Austin Collie.  Tom Brady throws them to whatever white guy they find off the street that is shifty.  Antonio Brown is a really talented WR but you think he'd be putting up numbers like that if McCown is his QB?  Being paired with Roethlisberger is what makes him next-level great.

Is Peyton Manning one of the guys you want to use for this point?  Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne weren't true #1 WRs?  He had them at the same time.  Faulk, James, Dallas Clark.  

Also, is Brandin Cooks white?

[Beerfish]

Bad Qb play is very low on the reasons for the nfl going down hill.  a lot of good or reasonable young qbs out there.

When you have a coach like john fox that throw the ball 7 times in the whole game it kills things.

But far worse than any of that is:

-  Awful rules and terribly applied rules so that no one, not the fans, not the refs, not the teams, not the players have a clue what a td ism what a fumble is, what a catch is or what holding or pi is.  You cannot get at all excited about any big play because something is going to be reviewed, worse yet the powers that be lecture you and tell you they made the right call.  (The whole world says ASJ had a td, one nob in newyork said he didn't)

- The political bs. I watch sports so i don't have to deal with the political bs and guys like kapernick and the rest of the players stick it in my face each, along with the networks that cover it more than the actual game.

- Awful pre game panels and analysis from mostly unlikable ex players.

- Each time a guy commits a bad act it now goes to the courts or is 'appealed'

 

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Totally agree with this.

There was a time, not that long ago where if you didn't have a great QB that you could still build your team and compete if you had say a hard hitting defense or a big time running game. Sadly though the days of "Doomsday", "The Steel Curtain", "The NY Sack Exchange" are gone. The rules changes have basically taken any kind of hard hitting, intimidating defense out of the game.

Other than maybe the Ravens vs Steelers what great team rivalries are out there ? Now it is all about Brady vs Manning, Brady vs Ryan, Big Ben vs Rodgers. When you would get games like Steelers vs Raiders or Dallas vs Washington, Green Bay vs Chicago, those were games that you did not miss because you knew the history between the two teams and you knew that they did not like each other.

That is the NFL I miss. This stuff I see now is nothing close to the sport that I loved.

 

2 of those 3 teams had HOF QBs.  The other is the Jets.  Can you guess which one didn't win the super bowl? 

14 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Why would any player be interested in renegotiating a cba that included longer and more practice?

Larger share of revenue?

[Kevin L]

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

While there is some truth to this, in the 80s/90s it wasn't nearly as disparate.  In the modern era it's almost like the receivers don't matter if you have a great QB.  Aaron Rodgers has never really had a true #1 WR.  Peyton Manning threw TDs to the likes of Jacob Tamme and Austin Collie.  Tom Brady throws them to whatever white guy they find off the street that is shifty.  Antonio Brown is a really talented WR but you think he'd be putting up numbers like that if McCown is his QB?  Being paired with Roethlisberger is what makes him next-level great.

I'll give you the 80's, but in the 90's, 8 out of the 10 Super Bowls were won by HOF QB's.

[Hael]

Regarding the analysis.  I watched 4 games this weekend so stop me if this sounds familiar.  There wasn't a single game where one of the commentators didn't draw a route on an instant replay and made commentary about how such and such a play developed.  Except that it was the WRONG player!!  One second later the real wr would make the catch, and the commentary would peter off into an embarrassed mumble.

CTE amongst the media folks would be an acceptable explanation.

[shawn306]

I used those as an example. I can throw out the Bears in 85 with Jim McMahon, The 86 Giants with Simms or the 90 Giants with Simms and Hostetler, or the "No Name Defense in Miami who had Earl Morrell at QB for most the season. 

The point being is that you didn't need a HOF QB and that you could build teams if you had say an "OK" QB (Example Joe Theismann) and still be in the hunt for a Super Bowl if you had a good OL or a good running game or a good defense.

[The Crimson King]

9 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

What was this golden time when an elite QB wasn't at the helm of the most successful teams?

Didn't the Jets go the playoffs twice with Richard Todd ?

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Larger share of revenue?

You'd think it'd have to be pretty significant.  But, at that point, do the owners go for it?

[#27TheDominator]

23 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

I used those as an example. I can throw out the Bears in 85 with Jim McMahon, The 86 Giants with Simms or the 90 Giants with Simms and Hostetler, or the "No Name Defense in Miami who had Earl Morrell at QB for most the season. 

The point being is that you didn't need a HOF QB and that you could build teams if you had say an "OK" QB (Example Joe Theismann) and still be in the hunt for a Super Bowl if you had a good OL or a good running game or a good defense.

You mean (not Hall of Famer but), former NFL MVP and first team all-pro Earl Morrall? 

[Gastineau Lives]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

no it’s kneeling

No, kneeling has no impact whatsoever. Is that the point?

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Larger share of revenue?

I don't even think that would change their minds. 

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

I used those as an example. I can throw out the Bears in 85 with Jim McMahon, The 86 Giants with Simms or the 90 Giants with Simms and Hostetler, or the "No Name Defense in Miami who had Earl Morrell at QB for most the season. 

The point being is that you didn't need a HOF QB and that you could build teams if you had say an "OK" QB (Example Joe Theismann) and still be in the hunt for a Super Bowl if you had a good OL or a good running game or a good defense.

One can for sure find instances whee teams won the Superbowl with okay to poor Qbing.  What you do not get with poor Qbing is sustained opportunities to win the super bowl and you get large ups and downs for most teams.

If you get a franchise Qb he can keep your team relevant through 2 or 3 rebuilds.  To win the SB you 1st have to make the playoffs and the more you make the playoffs the more chances you have. 

[shawn306]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You mean Hall of Famer, former NFL MVP and first team all-pro Earl Morrall? 

When the hell was Morall inducted in the HOF

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You'd think it'd have to be pretty significant.  But, at that point, do the owners go for it?

Never!  They are going to make it an 18 game season.  Either by limited it to 2 preseason games and/or pushing the end of the season back.  They have been wanting to push the Super Bowl to President's Day, so people have the day off and can really get tanked up.  The way it is now, everybody leaves the party early because they have work.  They will probably start to charge significantly for practices and camps as a money maker.  The only other thing I can think of would be advertising on the uniforms.  My Italian jersey was covered.  We looked like a NASCAR.  Not the drivers, the cars.