Examples of Herm's bad clock management

[kcchiefs0413]

Hey everyone - I'm a chiefs fan who has been debating the importance of clock management with other chiefs fans and I was wondering if you guys could give me some examples of herm edwards' bad clock management that has cost you wins. If possible, could you name the year of the game, the opponent, the bad clock management, and how it was a crucial mistake. Thanks.

[Matt39]

See Baltimore 04. Look no further.

[Green DNA]

End of the Steelers game in divisional playoffs last year

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

LOL

asking this forum about Herm's bad clock management is like asking a preacher about god

[kcchiefs0413]

This is great. I've been challenged to provide 10 examples. So far we got 2. The one against baltimore last year is the one where herm decided to kick a FG with 8 seconds left on 3rd and goal when he could have taken another shot at the end zone and they end up losing in OT. And of course the playoffs last year when he decided to take a knee at the end of the game which made a long FG even longer in the most difficult stadium to kick FG's. If you guys could, please keep them coming.

[Bugg]

Pats, 2005. Pats complete a questionable pass on a big 3rd down play. Edwards, busily consulting with his whole staff rather than making a snap decision(or having one trusted assistant in the booth designated to tell him to throw the red flag) does nothing. Pats, apparently having one man in the booth designated to tell Brady and Bellichick on the headset it might be questionable run to the line, run a play immediately for a big gain and go on to score and win.

Raven, 2004 as above.

Giants, 2003, at home. Basically let the clock go to hell, and then in OT had to consult with everyone before making a decision as to whether or not to kick a FG when the kick was ridicukous and another offenisve play was obvious.

Browns, 2002-Jets manage to blow a 21-0 halftime lead with various mismanagement, 24-21.

Bills, 2001. Jets run a pass play in the middle of the field to Martin as the clock runs out in a loss.

Bengals, 2001. Testaverde ignores Hackett's call with time running out and completes a miracle pass to AFL refugee Kevin Swayne to win the game.

More times you can count-may be 2 or 3 times a game- where he allowed his team to piss away timeouts since Hackett's complicated play calls took too much time on the play clock. it was little better this year.

The Jets in 5 years DID NOT HAVE A HURRY UP/NO HUDDLE. 2 plays are never called on a clock stoppage. Instead, the Jets (as will the Chiefs will do now) huddle up every play. Read this again-they will not have a hurry up at all.

I seriously pity you guys.The guy needs a coach to show him how the clock works, and even then they don't get it right, not even close. My son's Pop Warner coach figured this out after about 30 seconds of his first game; my other son's high school coach would do a much better job then Edwards. And it hasn't changed in 5 years, even though he's been around football for 30 years. People in the know in media circles will tell you sotto voce that Edwards is a glorified cheerleader. Smart football people-Boomer Esiason, Shannon Sharpe, Brian Cox-say it out loud. When he starts making a mess in KC it will get louder. You've been sold a bill of goods, and it's complete BS. We used to think even being a bad coach, he was at least a nice man. Now we know even that's nonsense too.

But it will be great for reporters. Figure rather than doing his job Edwards will allow some lucky reporters to attach themselves to him like a remora to follow the coach around and treat his never-ending blather as pearls of wisdom.Good bet Jason Whitlock will be allowed behind the curtain to get a look at the Master

Sh!thead.

[StillerPaul]

Pats, 2005. Pats complete a questionable pass on a big 3rd down play. Edwards, busily consulting with his whole staff rather than making a snap decision(or having one trusted assistant in the booth designated to tell him to throw the red flag) does nothing. Pats, apparently having one man in the booth designated to tell Brady and Bellichick on the headset it might be questionable run to the line, run a play immediately for a big gain and go on to score and win.

Raven, 2004 as above.

Giants, 2003, at home. Basically let the clock go to hell, and then in OT had to consult with everyone before making a decision.

Browns, 2002-Jets manage to bloe a 21-0 halftime lead with various mismanagement, 24-21.

Bills, 2001. Jets run a pass play in the middle of the field to Martin as the clock runs out.

Bengals, 2001. Testaverde ignores Hackett's call with time running out and completes a miracle pass to some AFL refugee win the game.

More times you can count where he allowed his team to piss away timeouts since Hackett's complicated play calls took too much time on the play clock.

The Jets in 5 years DID NOT HAVE A HURRY UP/NO HUDDLE. 2 plays are never called on a clock stoppage. Instead, the Jets (as will the Chiefs will do now) huddle up every play.

I seriously pity you guys.The guy needs a coach to show him how the clock works, and even then they don't get it right, not even close. My son's Pop Warner coach figured this out after about 30 seconds of his first game; my other son's high school coach would do a much better job then Edwards. And it hasn't changed in 5 years, even though he's been around football for 30 years. People in the know in media circles will tell you sotto voce that Edwards is a glorified cheerleader. Smart football people-Boomer Esiason, Shannon Sharpe, Brian Cox-say it out loud. When he starts making a mess in KC it will get louder. You've been sold a bill of goods, and it's complete BS. We used to think even being a bad coach, he was at least a nice man. Now we know even that's nonsense too.

But it will be great for reporters. Figure rather than doing his job Edwards will allow some lucky reporters to attach themselves to him like a remora to follow the coach around and treat his never-ending blather as pearls of wisdom.Good bet Jason Whitlock will be allowed behind the curtain to get a look at the Master

Sh!thead.

Damn good post. I can tell you are a serious fan, Bugg.

[Bugg]

I'm with you guys tommorrow, Paulie. Break a leg. There's no way God will allow Jake the Fake to ruin a Super Bowl Sunday for America.

[Preston Howley III]

More times you can count where he allowed his team to piss away timeouts since Hackett's complicated play calls took too much time on the play clock.

That's the thing you Chiefs fans should watch for-

Herm will use all of his timouts in the first and 3rd quarters; and 9 out of 10 times, it will be for something stupid, like the play clock was down to 1 second and the offense couldn't get on the same page in time, and then, after the time out, they will come back on the field and simply hand the ball off to the running back. You will scratch your head in wonder.

You will witness at least one time out pssed away because your defense will have twelve guys on the field.

You will NEVER see a two minute drill, or a hurry up offense.

[Bugg]

That's the thing you Chiefs fans should watch for-

Herm will use all of his timouts in the first and 3rd quarters; and 9 out of 10 times, it will be for something stupid, like the play clock was down to 1 second and the offense couldn't get on the same page in time, and then, after the time out, they will come back on the field and simply hand the ball off to the running back. You will scratch your head in wonder.

You will witness at least one time out pssed away because your defense will have twelve guys on the field.

You will NEVER see a two minute drill, or a hurry up offense.

More timeS than you can count during the Edwards Error, 2 or 3 times each week, that will happen. And you will turn to the person next to and say-the Chiefs called a timeout to run THAT?

[GlennFoley]

This is great. I've been challenged to provide 10 examples. So far we got 2. The one against baltimore last year is the one where herm decided to kick a FG with 8 seconds left on 3rd and goal when he could have taken another shot at the end zone and they end up losing in OT. And of course the playoffs last year when he decided to take a knee at the end of the game which made a long FG even longer in the most difficult stadium to kick FG's. If you guys could, please keep them coming.

Whoa.. Don't cut the Baltimore game short.. He inexplicably let Quincy take 40 seconds off the clock when he was inside the 5 yard line..

[RSJ]

This is great. I've been challenged to provide 10 examples. So far we got 2. The one against baltimore last year is the one where herm decided to kick a FG with 8 seconds left on 3rd and goal when he could have taken another shot at the end zone and they end up losing in OT. And of course the playoffs last year when he decided to take a knee at the end of the game which made a long FG even longer in the most difficult stadium to kick FG's. If you guys could, please keep them coming.

The Baltimore game is a classic. I hope they show it on NFL network again so all you Chiefs fans get a good look at what you are up against. First Herm blamed a fragile Quincy Carter for this mishap, then Hackett got blamed. Then after it was played on NFL network in front of the whole nation Herm threw a temper tantrum about the whole thing.

Other notable colapses.

2002 vs the Bears - The Leon Johnson game.

2001 vs colts. Down by 3 TD's Herm decides to run a drive that eats up over 9 minutes in the 4th quarter.

The list goes on and on and on. There are plenty more but that should give you 10.

[GoJETS]

Here is a good example for your team this year.

Do you remember when the Chiefs beat the Raiders (I think it was day after Trent Green's dad died)? Well you lose that game. Period!

This is not sour grapes but it became a joke... not once or twice it got to the point where he hired a coach just for clock management and they still messed... not to mention 12 men on the field and 10 men on the field.

[Sharrow]

Yeah, nobody could believe it after quincy made that 7 or so yard run and nobody called a TO. We all thought we were missing something.

Last year against the steelers, having pennington kneel it on 3rd down just to take 2 seconds off the clock and lost a yard for the FG. He could have at least tried to get a little closer for brien.

The many times he's ran it at the end of games when he could have just taken a knee. I bet thats happened at least twice a season.

Allowing QB sneaks when his QB is injured. That doesn't count, but i thought I'd mention it anyway.

[Bugg]

The Baltimore game is a classic. I hope they show it on NFL network again so all you Chiefs fans get a good look at what you are up against. First Herm blamed a fragile Quincy Carter for this mishap, then Hackett got blamed. Then after it was played on NFL network in front of the whole nation Herm threw a temper tantrum about the whole thing.

Other notable colapses.

2002 vs the Bears - The Leon Johnson game.

2001 vs colts. Down by 3 TD's Herm decides to run a drive that eats up over 9 minutes in the 4th quarter.

The list goes on and on and on. There are plenty more but that should give you 10.

I was at the Ravens game, and while we knew he screwed up the clock unbeliebvably, you cannot begin to comprehend the sheetstrom that hit the fan after the NFL Network aired that game 3 or 4 days later as the "Game of the Week". Truly an "the emperor has no clothes" moment. Mike Nolan, the DC for the Ravens that year, is shown guessing the Jets playcalls correctly all 2nd half as Hackett and Herm went into their ususal shell.And the chaos that is Edwards' sideline was there for all to view. Edwards actually had to amend his throwing of Quincy Carter under the bus when the NFl Network ganme flim showed Carter was practically blameless and the real fault was the mess of a sideline Edwards was running-no chain of command, everyone talking at once, no cool head, nobody making decisions in a coherent flow chart.

[Sharrow]

Where are you debating this with chiefs fans? I'd like to see what they have to say in response when you make your list

[Bugg]

What he said; post a link to see what Fantasy Island/wishful thinking has taken hold in the heartland.

Serioulsy-I genuinely feel bad for you guys. Edwards is a joke. he doesn't carry a play chart. he doesn't argue with officials, as if he never heard of a makeup call. That anyone could try to sell him as a disciplinarian or a a brilliant defensive mind is scary.It would be more plausible to try to say that Jenna Jameson is a gifted Shakspearian thespian.

[Preston Howley III]

Other notable colapses.

2002 vs the Bears - The Leon Johnson game.

Leon Johnson wasn't on that team, bro. But the game itself is a great example; 8 minutes left, down by two scores, and Hermy has Hackett continue to feed the ball to Martin. The Bears had a CB playing in his first NFL game, and exactly ONE PASS was thrown on his side of the field, the entire game.

Like the desperation moment when Vinny chucked one in the middle of the field to Martin against the Bills in '01 as time ran out, poor Wayne was scapegoated for that loss trying to hurdle two Bears defenders and he fumbled the ball.

[Gainzo]

Herm is useless. Good luck KC fans. Herm will never get you to the next level. As a Pats fan I'm pissed he left the Jets. That was two wins a year I could bank on.

KC fans, take this tidbit to the bank: Herm never beat the Pats at home in the Meadowlands.

I'm thinking that means that the Broncos will come into Arrowhead and kick your arse for the next few years.

[kcchiefs0413]

Where are you debating this with chiefs fans? I'd like to see what they have to say in response when you make your list

It's at wildbillschiefs.com. I think it's in a thread about the chiefs hiring a bunch of assistants, including Dick Curl. The guy that challenged me actually vowed to send me $100 through Paypal if i could name 10 "legitimate" examples of bad clock management costing the jets a win. He also vowed to eat a shoe if i could do this. I suspect that he'll use his own definition of "legitimate" to get around paying up.

I'm still doing more research now trying to get as specific as possible so i can make a better reply.

[Preston Howley III]

This is great. I've been challenged to provide 10 examples. So far we got 2. The one against baltimore last year is the one where herm decided to kick a FG with 8 seconds left on 3rd and goal when he could have taken another shot at the end zone and they end up losing in OT. And of course the playoffs last year when he decided to take a knee at the end of the game which made a long FG even longer in the most difficult stadium to kick FG's. If you guys could, please keep them coming.

Keep in mind, these are just examples of games the Jets lost because of poor time management; get ready to lose games simply because your team was not prepared.

You remember the pounding the Chiefs gave the Jets back in September, right?

[T-Mac]

Late in the game with the Jets down by 10 and stalled at the Bills' 33 yl with a stiff wind at his back, Herm elects to punt the ball, which blows into the endzone resulting in a 13 yard net. Any decent kicker would have made that kick in such conditions.

[Preston Howley III]

It's at wildbillschiefs.com. I think it's in a thread about the chiefs hiring a bunch of assistants, including d!ck Curl. The guy that challenged me actually vowed to send me $100 through Paypal if i could name 10 "legitimate" examples of bad clock management costing the jets a win. He also vowed to eat a shoe if i could do this. I suspect that he'll use his own definition of "legitimate" to get around paying up.

I'm still doing more research now trying to get as specific as possible so i can make a better reply.

There is a plethora of examples that the Jets won a game, in spite of Herms poor time management. It usually happened because the other team was simply more inept-

Games like:

vs Jax in '03; thousands of fans were in the aisles leaving with minutes to go, and the Jets managed a miracle bomb in the end zone to win the game, but the whole game was one series after another of 3 and punt.

vs 49ers in '04; Niners simply blew the game. Herm kept them in it right down to there last possesion, they were driving and Rattay threw a pick.

Herm is real lucky at dodging the occasional bullet, but inevitably, the fact that he doesn't know what he is doing, will cost you in a big spot. You guys will be something like 6-3, with a turkey like Cardinals or some other God awful coming into your stadium, and if you win the game, you control your own destiny towards a division title- and you will lose that game. It happened every single time with Herm-

vs Bills '01

vs Bears '02

vs every team the Jets played in December of '04.

Those 3 years the Jets made the playoffs, not because of Herm, but in spite of Herm, and they all came off on divine intervention-

The 01 team had a Raiders game bumped to the end of the season that they would have lost in week two, and Hall kicked a 51 yarder.

The 02 team, after starting 2-5, put together a 7-2 finish, and needed the Dolphins to choke against the pats; when the score was flashed on the big board at Vaginants stadium, the place erupted.

The '04 team finished the season going 2-4 in their last six games; they needed the Steelers 3rd stringers to beat the Bills (they did) to backdoor them in.

[NIGHT STALKER]

All those are great examples of poor clock management by Spermy...but, the best example and proof of how bad he really was can be summed up in two words...DICK CURL. That's all the proof you will need to know how bad this clown was.

[Bugg]

Saints, 2001-Games was lost. Saints were driving for the game-winning score. Hermie's 1st savior DB of many, Damien Robinson, tackles a guy by trying to rip his head off with both hands and the officials miss the obvious 15-yard unsportmanlike call, causing Kyle Turley, who sees it and is rightly infuriated, to grab Robinson's helmet and throw it, causing a 15-yarder vs. the Saints and the loss of their LT upon Turley's ejection. End of Saints winning drive, Edwards wins a game that should have been a laugher and almost lost it, but is saved by the opponent's gaping stupidity.

Speaking of discipline-Robinson was so dumb he brought a loaded assault rifle to the Meadowlands on gameday at a time that immediately after 9/11 was as close to lockdown as the NYC area has ever been. And this was the kind of guy Edwards sought out and laivshed with cash. And he sucked as a football player.

[Fred Jetstone]

Herman "Munster" Edwards has graduated from bad clock-management to bad calendar-management, as in:

The dude decides to leave just as Bolly is ready to emerge as a better-than-Manning qb icon.

Just as Vilma is poised to become the premier LB in the league.

Just as the 4th overall pick is ready to pay dividends (pssst, D'brick y'all)

Just as Houston is set to break out as the stud RB Houston is supposed to get in Bush.

Just as Justin Miller is ready turn heads returning kicks

Just as the ground breaks on Xanadu Herm breaks wind and leaves town whistling Olivia Newton John songs to himself. The ultimate in "bad timing" mistake of all time.

Ciao Herm, you're a bum.

Herm's exit is a relieving as having a rusty arrowhead removed from the back of your head

[Preston Howley III]

Saints, 2001-Games was lost. Saints were driving for the game-winning score. Hermie's 1st savior DB of many, Damien Robinson, tackles a guy by trying to rip his head off with both hands and the officials miss the obvious 15-yard unsportmanlike call, causing Kyle Turley, who sees it and is rightly infuriated, to grab Robinson's helmet and throw it, causing a 15-yarder vs. the Saints and the loss of their LT upon Turley's ejection. End of Saints winning drive, Edwards wins a game that should have been a laugher and almost lost it, but is saved by the opponent's gaping stupidity.

Speaking of discipline-Robinson was so dumb he brought a loaded assault rifle to the Meadowlands on gameday at a time that immediately after 9/11 was as close to lockdown as the NYC area has ever been. And this was the kind of guy Edwards sought out and laivshed with cash. And he sucked as a football player.

Holy sht, great call Bugg! Forgot all about that one. Similar situation in the '04 playoffs against the Chargers, but Barton did get flagged, and fortunately, Kaeding missed the game winning FG.

In '03, vs the Eagles (loss), were there any time mismanagement situations in that game? I can't recall. I know Herm's big strategy was to start the game with Vinny, and then insert Chad-

And he announced it days before the game, to let the Eagles know.

[StillerPaul]

I'm with you guys tommorrow, Paulie. Break a leg. There's no way God will allow Jake the Fake to ruin a Super Bowl Sunday for America.

I'm so nervous it ain't even funny. I'm just not comfortable with Cowher in this situation. Hopefully, the team will continue to play like they have the last few weeks. Just do whatever it takes to get the W. I'm not too fond of Jake Plummer either, but remember that Joey Harrington looked pretty good against the Steeler D the last week of the season.

[RSJ]

Leon Johnson wasn't on that team, bro. But the game itself is a great example; 8 minutes left, down by two scores, and Hermy has Hackett continue to feed the ball to Martin. The Bears had a CB playing in his first NFL game, and exactly ONE PASS was thrown on his side of the field, the entire game.

Like the desperation moment when Vinny chucked one in the middle of the field to Martin against the Bills in '01 as time ran out, poor Wayne was scapegoated for that loss trying to hurdle two Bears defenders and he fumbled the ball.

You have everything right about the game but Leon Johnson came in and tore up the Jets defense in the 2nd half.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/gameday/?gameid=43

[Preston Howley III]

In '03, the Jets did beat the Browns, but again, hermy kept them in the game right until the end, and the Kicker missed a makeable FG.

Get used to that, Herm loves to "keep the score close"

for a "chance to win it in the end".

His exact words.

[Preston Howley III]

You have everything right about the game but Leon Johnson came in and tore up the Jets defense in the 2nd half.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/gameday/?gameid=43

Oh yeah!!! Now I remember!

You got a great memory.

[RSJ]

Oh yeah!!! Now I remember!

You got a great memory.

The Jets defense made him look lik walter payton and he was the 4th rb on the bears depth chart going into the season. I just remember Joe Bningo's rant after the game. "Leon "freakin" Johnson, are you kidding me?"

56 yds rushing and 22 rec 1 td in the 2nd half.

[kcchiefs0413]

I still need at least one more specifically of how clock management cost the jets a win. So far I have:

1. 2004 against baltimore - He inexplicably let Quincy take 40 seconds off the clock when he was inside the 5 yard line. opted to go for a FG with 8 seconds left on 3rd and goal. jets lost in overtime.

2. 2005 Divisional Playoffs against Steelers - opted to take a knee to set up an even longer FG at the most difficult stadium to kick FG. he missed jets lost in OT.

3. against atlanta 2005 - at the end of the 1st half, they assumed that Coles had gotten out of bounds when in fact the clock continued to run.

4. against the niner 2001 - when it was 4th and 1 and the Jets elected to kick a field goal. Then the play clock ran out, adding five yards to the field goal, which was eventually blocked. That put the 49ers in great field position and led to a field goal for them. If you go for it and don

[GlennFoley]

Miami 2005-Called a timeout when we were inside the 15 with about 1:30 to go. We were down by four and had 2 timeouts left so he didn't need to call anything there. All it did was take the offense out of its rhythem, and let the Miami defense have rest; thus costing us the game.

[Bugg]

Bocscore form 2002/Browns-24 unanswered point, Hackett and Hermie go into a shell, piss away a 3 TD lead.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/8aba06aaab1d51b485256a9e000c9904/1243049364bd5df185256c5f007b3007?OpenDocument