At #4 the Jets are sitting in the catbird seat

[Green Jets & Ham]

This talk of trading up to #2 is all wrong in my view because the dynamics of trading John Abraham makes the #4 Spot an ideal situation in my view ... places the Jets in a CAN'T LOSE situation in regards to need and value ... so why deal the #4 and #29 Picks {at the very least} when we have a ton of holes to fill, need every pick we can get, and we're already in a position to fill a need with an outstanding propsect at #4 Overall?

Here's the bottom line, we already know Reggie Bush is going #1 Overall ... Slam Dunk

So that leaves two picks ahead of us

If those two picks are some variation of Leinart and Cutler, the Jets snatch that rare BIG/STRONG 295 Pound DE {Super Mario} who also possesses the SPEED/QUICKNESS of a smallish edge rusher ... that is extremely rare, makes him a perfect fit for a fluctuating 34/43 that Mangini is sure to deploy as they do in NE, and it's outstanding value at a position of need

If those two picks are some variation of Mario and Leinart the Jets are in a position to draft a QB {Jay Cutler} who's rocket for an arm is tailor made for the meadowlands, even more so than Leinart in my view

And if by chance those two picks are Mario and Cutler the Jets are in a position to draft the consensus #1 QB on the overwhelming majority of boards {Matt Leinart}, and though I may have some questions about his arm strength for the northeast, or while he doesn't have a Cutler cannon, his arm is plenty strong enough to succeed in NY and that would be viewed as a coup at #4 in most circles

So the way I see it we're really in a no lose situation at #4, and that would be true even if you happen to prefer Brick, Hawk or Vernon Davis ... so why on earth should we deal two first round picks {at the very least} to move up two spots when we can KEEP THE #29 Pick and makeout just fine at #4?

I wouldn't do it ... not now, not after Abe has been dealt ... now we are in as close to a NO LOSE at #4 as you can get ... by that I mean all draft picks are risky to some degree until they prove themselves in the pros, that is even true of Reggie Bush to some degree, but accepting that fact we are in a killer position to walk off with a heck of a prospect, who fills a need, at #4 Overall ... no matter what!!

Comments?

[Smizzy]

I don't want to package both picks....No chance.

Id rather tak our chances and take the BAP at both spots...Unless somebody just has to grab young or Cutler...then we trade down.

Ill pass on a QB this yr.

[NJ]

I don't want to package both picks....No chance.

Id rather tak our chances and take the BAP at both spots...Unless somebody just has to grab young or Cutler...then we trade down.

Ill pass on a QB this yr.

Bingo - with all the holes that need to be filled, I'd be amazed to see the new regime roll the dice on 1 pick that has some chance of going El-busto.

Lets see what Ramsey has in that cannon.

[vinnys025]

I don't want to package both picks....No chance.

Id rather tak our chances and take the BAP at both spots...Unless somebody just has to grab young or Cutler...then we trade down.

Ill pass on a QB this yr.

I agree to a point. I wouldnt mind taking a diamond in the rough in the 4th or 5th rounds if there is a QB that Mangini thinks has potential.

[Smizzy]

I agree to a point. I wouldnt mind taking a diamond in the rough in the 4th or 5th rounds if there is a QB that Mangini thinks has potential.

i got no beef with that. I just don't want to go QB in rds 1-3..Do you think Manigni is hoping he can nab a Bradyesque players in the late rounds like BB did? or do you think he rolls the dice and goes for the for the QB early?

[vinnys025]

i got no beef with that. I just don't want to go QB in rds 1-3..Do you think Manigni is hoping he can nab a Bradyesque players in the late rounds like BB did? or do you think he rolls the dice and goes for the for the QB early?

No way do I think he takes a qb in the top 5. In my opinion he takes Mario, D-Brick, or trades out to aquire more picks. I believe he will take a qb in the middle rounds, but I refuse to use the B word in my posts....ever!!

[PatsFanTX]

Comments?

I said it a few weeks back, Jets sitting with the #4 pick have the most leverage in the entire draft.

And I still believe that.

[Green Jets & Ham]

i got no beef with that. I just don't want to go QB in rds 1-3..Do you think Manigni is hoping he can nab a Bradyesque players in the late rounds like BB did? or do you think he rolls the dice and goes for the for the QB early?

Smiz, you know I luv ya man, but you have to realize that everything pales in comparison to a franchise QB ... if you have one of those the sky is the limit, and if you don't you'll probably need a Great defense and a lotta luck ... and you can't count on stealing one late just because it's been done before ... Jets have been trying that since Namath ... took a few QB's in RD 1, but haven't drafted one in the TOP 5 {or even the TOP 10-15} since Joe Willy

[Smizzy]

Smiz, you know I luv ya man, but you have to realize that everything pales in comparison to a franchise QB ... if you have one of those the sky is the limit, and if you don't you'll probably need a Great defense and a lotta luck ... and you can't count on stealing one late just because it's been done before ... Jets have been trying that since Namath ... took a few QB's in RD 1, but haven't drafted one in the TOP 5 since Joe Willy

Oh ,I know it's more than a longshot to grab a quality QB in the late rds....Im just curious to see how Manigni plays it with his first chane at the draft.

I don't want to trade up.... I don't want vince young and Im not sold on Cutler...So Im really trying to visualize this draft without taking a QB.

[PatsFanTX]

Smiz, you know I luv ya man, but you have to realize that everything pales in comparison to a franchise QB ... if you have one of those the sky is the limit, and if you don't you'll probably need a Great defense and a lotta luck ... and you can't count on stealing one late just because it's been done before ... Jets have been trying that since Namath ... took a few QB's in RD 1, but haven't drafted one in the TOP 5 since Joe Willy

Hammer,

You know I have the utmost respect for you.

But Cutler at #4 is 50/50 at best at becoming a franchise QB.

You really want to roll the dice like that with the #4 pick?

[Green Jets & Ham]

Hammer,

You know I have the utmost respect for you.

But Cutler at #4 is 50/50 at best at becoming a franchise QB.

You really want to roll the dice like that with the #4 pick?

I look at it this way, there is no such thing as a Gurantee in the draft ... not even John Elway, the most heralded QB prospect in my lifetime, was a sure thing on the day he was drafted ... history is replete with "sure things" who flopped, so we know "sure things" do not exist in the draft

Point being, you can't go into the draft, no matter how high you are picking, even #1 Overall, and expect the magic fairy to tap you on the shoulder and assure you "JOE BLOW" is a mortal lock ... the day will never come that you can draft a mortal lock ... best you can do is draft a kid with talent, skills, and all of the necessary ingrediants to succeed, then light a candle

Jay Cutler, in my view, has all of the necessary ingrediants to be a franchise QB in the NFL ... so far as tools are concerned, IMO he's the best QB in the draft, even has better tools than Leinart ... but the one thing I cannot do is Guarantee anyone it's in the bag

Does he have the type of tools I would bet the #4 Overall Pick on? YES

Does that make him a mortal lock? NO SUCH THING

[4HCrew]

At this point I would be ecstatic with D Brick or Mario.. I would take a pass this year on QB just to see what you have in Chad and Ramsey and take a year to install your new offense. Work out all the bugs and found out what you have and what you need.

[PatsFanTX]

At this point I would be ecstatic with D Brick or Mario.. I would take a pass this year on QB just to see what you have in Chad and Ramsey and take a year to install your new offense. Work out all the bugs and found out what you have and what you need.

1). Either D'Brick or Mario would be would be a great choice for the Jets at #4.

2). PennyBoy sucks and won't even be in the equation by the end of training camp.

[SouthernJet]

This talk of trading up to #2 is all wrong in my view because the dynamics of trading John Abraham makes the #4 Spot an ideal situation in my view ... places the Jets in a CAN'T LOSE situation in regards to need and value ... so why deal the #4 and #29 Picks {at the very least} when we have a ton of holes to fill, need every pick we can get, and we're already in a position to fill a need with an outstanding propsect at #4 Overall?

Here's the bottom line, we already know Reggie Bush is going #1 Overall ... Slam Dunk

So that leaves two picks ahead of us

If those two picks are some variation of Leinart and Cutler, the Jets snatch that rare BIG/STRONG 295 Pound DE {Super Mario} who also possesses the SPEED/QUICKNESS of a smallish edge rusher ... that is extremely rare, makes him a perfect fit for a fluctuating 34/43 that Mangini is sure to deploy as they do in NE, and it's outstanding value at a position of need

If those two picks are some variation of Mario and Leinart the Jets are in a position to draft a QB {Jay Cutler} who's rocket for an arm is tailor made for the meadowlands, even more so than Leinart in my view

And if by chance those two picks are Mario and Cutler the Jets are in a position to draft the consensus #1 QB on the overwhelming majority of boards {Matt Leinart}, and though I may have some questions about his arm strength for the northeast, or while he doesn't have a Cutler cannon, his arm is plenty strong enough to succeed in NY and that would be viewed as a coup at #4 in most circles

So the way I see it we're really in a no lose situation at #4, and that would be true even if you happen to prefer Brick, Hawk or Vernon Davis ... so why on earth should we deal two first round picks {at the very least} to move up two spots when we can KEEP THE #29 Pick and makeout just fine at #4?

I wouldn't do it ... not now, not after Abe has been dealt ... now we are in as close to a NO LOSE at #4 as you can get ... by that I mean all draft picks are risky to some degree until they prove themselves in the pros, that is even true of Reggie Bush to some degree, but accepting that fact we are in a killer position to walk off with a heck of a prospect, who fills a need, at #4 Overall ... no matter what!!

Comments?

agree ham,,

we either cant lose at #4 or we can grab a bounty of picks by moving down.

We can only get hosed by moving up.

All of this asssumes our new front office picks well, which I am assuming.

[PatsFanTX]

we either cant lose at #4 or we can grab a bounty of picks by moving down.

The Jets CAN lose at #4 if they select a QB with that pick.

[Greensince69]

I will trust that tangini will have done the full physc profile on cutler if they take him. That is the thing that scares me about him. He could be Farve or h could be jeff george. The man has talent but can he lead and make the rest of the tam better. That in a nutshell is what makes brady so good, leardership and the ability to grab they guys by the jocks and drag them along with him. If we are staying at 4 Super Mario is the safest pick.

If the vikings or the denver deal are true then I would have to seriously consider trading down. to get 2 picks in the first, 15 and 22, giving us 4 in the top 35, or to get a one and 2 2's, giving us 5 in the first 2 rounds just makes my head spin. FIlling those slots with nast high charater team guys will give this team a face lift we sorely need.

[SouthernJet]

The Jets CAN lose at #4 if they select a QB with that pick.

thank you Kreskin

[joewilly]

tx whats up?? you've used the jets & #4 draft pick in the same sentence twice so far in this thread with no mention of drob. you're not gettin soft in your old age are ya;)

[Green DNA]

I would be surprised if the Jets don't trade down, possibly out of the top 10, stockpiling additional picks in the process. I would be absolutely shocked (and pissed) if they trade multiple picks to move up. There have to be a number of teams that are desperate to move up. Either way, I think it all happens when we are on the clock and panic buying starts to set in.

[stormshadow19]

thank you Kreskin

He's not wrong. And, if they do grab a QB, it'll be same old Jets. Just because they're in the top four doiesn't mean they have to grab a QB. When was the last time the Jets had a franchise left tackle?

[mbn007]

agree ham,,

we either cant lose at #4 or we can grab a bounty of picks by moving down.

We can only get hosed by moving up.

All of this asssumes our new front office picks well, which I am assuming.

This sums it all up. We have the best chance to lose if we trade up. Standing pat, or trading down almost guarantees us a win-win situation.

[mbn007]

The Jets CAN lose at #4 if they select a QB with that pick.

Agreed.

Build the lines. Both of them. Mario and Gilles.

[vanDoug]

The Jets CAN lose at #4 if they select a QB with that pick.

TX - I find myself agreeing.

We need way too much help elsewhere.

I'm semi-content with Ramsey and Pennyboywonder, who just might surprise us all this year. Maybe we pick up a FA QB for insurance.

[ThunderbirdJet]

I agree with Ham's take, right down the line.... and I've agreed with him for a long time.... long before Cutler climbed most draft boards.

What I really don't get is why so many people don't want to go with Leinart or Cutler. For QB's right now, we have a first round bust and a china doll.

Almost all rookie QB's benefit greatly from a year of clipboard holding, which in our case gives us a second year to get the O line rebuilt. Throwing a rookie QB out there too early often reuslts in failure, like Carr and Ramsey. They need a year to learn the ENTIRE playbook.... not the dumbed down version that Eli and Roethlisberger used in their rookie years. They need to learn how to read pro defenses, and time to fix the mechanical problems almost all of them have coming out of college. They need practice time with their new recievers to get their timing down. They need to get used to cold weather football.

This is no one year rebuild.... and even if we take a franchise QB to develop, with luck, he'll be able to lead the Jets into the playoffs by 2008... at the earliest. Put the QB off another year, and it's 2009. It took Schottenhiemer two years to turn Brees into a good QB.

QB is no luxury pick.... it's the highest need pick the franchise has. Unless you believe against the odds that either Pennington and/or Ramsey can get it done.... I don't think they can.

[SouthernJet]

He's not wrong. And, if they do grab a QB, it'll be same old Jets. Just because they're in the top four doiesn't mean they have to grab a QB. When was the last time the Jets had a franchise left tackle?

Thank you Carnak:

[Bugg]

Kinda think the Jets will go with D'Brick. A solid pick, not much of a downside. Put him at LT for a decade, watch him become a dominant and solid Pace/Boselli/Ogden/Jones/Jumbo and probably take him for granted as long as you have him.

Problem with a QB (presumably Culter or Leinart; Young is too big a risk and not what Mangini wants)is there is much greater risk with possible greater reward. And who's to say they couldn't get a lucky flyer on Croyle or Whitehurst in the mid rounds. And if they suck, get Schaub next year. Because Atlanta is goig to be in cap hell trying to pay 2 QBs top cap cash.

[stormshadow19]

Thank you Carnak:

And thank you for adding nothing to the conversation.

[Latinlawyer]

Kinda think the Jets will go with D'Brick. A solid pick, not much of a downside. Put him at LT for a decade, watch him become a dominant and solid Pace/Boselli/Ogden/Jones/Jumbo and probably take him for granted as long as you have him.

Problem with a QB (presumably Culter or Leinart; Young is too big a risk and not what Mangini wants)is there is much greater risk with possible greater reward. And who's to say they couldn't get a lucky flyer on Croyle or Whitehurst in the mid rounds. And if they suck, get Schaub next year. Because Atlanta is goig to be in cap hell trying to pay 2 QBs top cap cash.

Isn't DBrick a bit undersized?

isn't Super Mario just a combine workout fiend?

Is leinart's arm strong enough to throw at the meadowlands?

Can Jay Cutler lead a team to a winning season?

Each pick has its own question marks.....no one has the answer yet....if we stay at #4 we can do well...there is more risk in moving up. If we mve down and acquire more picks...that would be ideal..

LL

[BwanaZulia]

I said it a few weeks back, Jets sitting with the #4 pick have the most leverage in the entire draft.

You also said we wouldn't get a first round pick for Abe, so your credability is slipping.

BZ

[PatsFanTX]

You also said we wouldn't get a first round pick for Abe, so your credability is slipping.

BZ

Where was that #15 pick for Abe?

#29 is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick.

[SouthernJet]

And thank you for adding nothing to the conversation.

u r welcome,,,

it's hard work

[stormshadow19]

Where was that #15 pick for Abe?

#29 is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick.

Way to grasp at straws, old man

[johnny green balls]

if texans draft bush i wouldn't mind giving #29 to them for dominick davis and their 2nd rounder.

[BwanaZulia]

Where was that #15 pick for Abe?

#29 is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick.

Keeping try buddy...

How about "29 is really a 2 and 9 and a 'first' round pick should start with a 1"

BZ

[SouthernJet]

if texans draft bush i wouldn't mind giving #29 to them for dominick davis and their 2nd rounder.

i would like that also