AFJF Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Much more not only in money but in years. That article had him taking a 2 year extention. Why would a guy his age with his numbers at that high a value posision take anything less then 6 years? So you think it'll be a 6 year $100-$120 million type of deal? Again, maybe you're right but we'll just have to wait and see if he approaches those type of numbers. If so, I'd be shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Mike-It was YOU that said they would come to agreement with a team first and THEN approach A-rod. It was YOU that said it NEVER works where they approach the player fiorst, before they consummate a deal, and said I knew nothing about baseball in suggesting that happens. I showed you exactly where it happens Mike-You withdraw from statements that ask you to clarify, and you double talk which sounds like nonsense. I suggest before to call others out on what they know, you clean your own deck first. It is a mess. UHHHHH no it's not. By the time that they asked green to waive the no trade clause they were 100% sure that he was going to get traded. You'll NEVER find a situation where a player was asked to waive their NTC and then not traded unless they failed a physical. Teams don't want players on their teams who know the team was trying to get rid of them so they wait till there is a real offer on the table that they want to do. it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to ask before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 So you think it'll be a 6 year $100-$120 million type of deal? Again, maybe you're right but we'll just have to wait and see if he approaches those type of numbers. If so, I'd be shocked. not that much. I'd estimate he could get somwhere around 80 million for 6 years on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 UHHHHH no it's not. By the time that they asked green to waive the no trade clause they were 100% sure that he was going to get traded. You'll NEVER find a situation where a player was asked to waive their NTC and then not traded unless they failed a physical. Teams don't want players on their teams who know the team was trying to get rid of them so they wait till there is a real offer on the table that they want to do. it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to ask before then. So Mike, teams will NEVER approach a player to submit a list of teams they would be willing to be traded to, before a deal is consummated? NEVER? Mike are you so sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 So Mike, teams will NEVER approach a player to submit a list of teams they would be willing to be traded to, before a deal is consummated? NEVER? Mike are you so sure? Those lists are made when the contracts are signed and are inside the text of the contract. AKA Limited NTC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I remember a few rare trades where very old players like randy johnson are asked where they want to go but thats VERY VERY rare and dosn't have anything to do with the AROD situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I remember a few rare trades where very old players like randy johnson are asked where they want to go but thats VERY VERY rare and dosn't have anything to do with the AROD situation. Mike-You said NEVER. Define NEVER for me. Why Is Randy Johnson differnt than A-ROD? Backpedal, backpedal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Mike-You said NEVER. Define NEVER for me. Why Is Randy Johnson differnt than A-ROD? Backpedal, backpedal He's different because he's very old and the team was doing him a favor trading him to a winner. Thats a COMPLETELY different situation. You brought up this subject in the context of the AROD trade and anyone with common sense knows that arod isn't an old player that the yankees are trying to do a favor. You're just destracting this thread from the FACT that the yankees WILL be able to get somthing good for arod and that teams will take his contract and aruging about semantics because you can't win this argument on the facts of THIS situation. Oh and i have no credibility but you said that the only reason that pat burrell dosn't put up the same numbers as arod is lineup protection LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Oh and i have no credibility but you said that the only reason that pat burrell dosn't put up the same numbers as arod is lineup protection LMAO. Mike-I was being sarcastic. I am absolutely sure, that if Burrell got as many at bats with people on base as A-rod got, that he would have as many RBI's, and if they moved him to 3rd base, he could come as close to as many errors. I am also pretty sure that Burrell could also be a non-contributor in the Yankees not winning the World Series, too. So maybe there was not total sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Mike-I was being sarcastic. I am absolutely sure, that if Burrell got as many at bats with people on base as A-rod got, that he would have as many RBI's, and if they moved him to 3rd base, he could come as close to as many errors. I am also pretty sure that Burrell could also be a non-contributor in the Yankees not winning the World Series, too. So maybe there was not total sarcasm. There is no point in continuing this. You've proven that you're just a complete yankee hater who just cares about bashing the yankees not having a real conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAJetsFan Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Just to clarify, I believe I've seen teams reach trade agreements before approaching the player about the trade. Phil Nevin is the most prominent example in recent memory: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050726/news_1s26nevin.html I think it's clearly in the best interests of both the Yankees and A-Rod to part ways at this point. He has never really fit in on the team and he can't be exactly happy about the way things have played out. The Yankees won't act desperate, but they really ought to move him. Under these circumstances, I can't imagine the return for A-rod being Zambrano, who is clearly the ONLY reliable starter for the Cubs. I don't think there is really a match with the Cubs due to their lack of starting pitching (at least sp that isn't injury-prone). I think the Angels or White Sox are probably more likely destinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Just to clarify, I believe I've seen teams reach trade agreements before approaching the player about the trade. Phil Nevin is the most prominent example in recent memory: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050726/news_1s26nevin.html Thats the case the VAST majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Actually, A-Rod holds all the cards. Nice try though. This is true. Why would he want to go to Philly? This is a team that sheds payroll every deadline. And when Ryan Howard gets FA-eligible, he is going to remember they kept him in the minors for about 3 years after he was ready strictly to keep him in arbitration even longer, and even acquired Jim Thome for resaons known only to themselves. The Cubs might be the only match because Piniella is is guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Just to clarify, I believe I've seen teams reach trade agreements before approaching the player about the trade. Phil Nevin is the most prominent example in recent memory: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050726/news_1s26nevin.html I think it's clearly in the best interests of both the Yankees and A-Rod to part ways at this point. He has never really fit in on the team and he can't be exactly happy about the way things have played out. The Yankees won't act desperate, but they really ought to move him. Under these circumstances, I can't imagine the return for A-rod being Zambrano, who is clearly the ONLY reliable starter for the Cubs. I don't think there is really a match with the Cubs due to their lack of starting pitching (at least sp that isn't injury-prone). I think the Angels or White Sox are probably more likely destinations. Yes, VA, I am aware that trades are done like that often. Mike intimated that they NEVEr are done in the way I described. If I were the Yankees, and I had strong inclination to trade A-Rod, I would approach him about the idea, see if they can agree if it is in the best interests of both parties, and if he agrees, have him submit a list to me of preferred teams. I then deal from a position a stronger position in making a deal with a particular team, because I have the foreknowledge that a trade is in fact possible. Dealing from a position of a trade where it can be vetoed is not dealing from strength. Mike-You said A-Rod carries all the leverage-That is VERY far from the truth. The Yankees can make the best deal for themselves, and A-Rod can just go-No Thanks. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Yes, VA, I am aware that trades are done like that often. Mike intimated that they NEVEr are done in that way. If I were the Yankees, and I had strong inclination to trade A-Rod, I would approach him about the idea, see if they can agree if it is in the best interests of both parties, and if he agrees, have him submit a list to me of preferred teams. I then deal from a position a stronger position in making a deal with a particular team, because I have the foreknowledge that a trade is in fact possible. Dealing from a position of a trade where it can be vetoed is not dealing from strength. Mike-You said A-Rod carries all the leverage-That is VERY far from the truth. The Yankees can make the best deal for themselves, and A-Rod can just go-No Thanks. Done. done deal, ,arod hates jeter,, arod will be the 'under the bus' sacrifice for the miserable choke job Yanks put on table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Did you see the past 3 postseasons? What does Choke rod add to your team? Let's face it....as far as the Yanks are concerned....all that matters are the October numbers and for choke-rod they are grim at best. MBN you know i Admire you but even you cant argue that A-rod will bring in top talent...especially with how he choked in the postseason again. What was he 1-14 no rbi's? LL I understand how he has performed as a Yankee. However, outside of NY, in Seattle, he actually had some solid post-season performances. He definitely is "spooked", or whatever the word is, over NY. He is Ed Whitson, circa 1985, all over again. He needs a calmer environment. If he hits 50 HRs in Cubbie-land, he will be worshipped as a god there. Even if he does not deliver a WS championship. But in NY, he will never be accepted, unless the Yankees win a Championship. Other teams know all this, and also know that he will not come cheap, in terms of players/prospects in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Actually, A-Rod holds all the cards. Nice try though. A-Rod holds zero cards here. If he wants to go where the fans and media are not so oppressive like they are in NY, he holds no leverage at all. If he wants to stay, but the Yankees have a super deal worked out and want to move him, his pride will not let him stay where he is not wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 A-Rod holds zero cards here. If he wants to go where the fans and media are not so oppressive like they are in NY, he holds no leverage at all. If he wants to stay, but the Yankees have a super deal worked out and want to move him, his pride will not let him stay where he is not wanted. MBN-Being able to go where you want, or have the ability to stay equals holding all the cards. How do yoiu know what A-Rods psyche and ego are? Have you talked to him about how he feels about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I understand how he has performed as a Yankee. However, outside of NY, in Seattle, he actually had some solid post-season performances. He definitely is "spooked", or whatever the word is, over NY. He is Ed Whitson, circa 1985, all over again. He needs a calmer environment. If he hits 50 HRs in Cubbie-land, he will be worshipped as a god there. Even if he does not deliver a WS championship. But in NY, he will never be accepted, unless the Yankees win a Championship. Other teams know all this, and also know that he will not come cheap, in terms of players/prospects in return. MBN-Given all that, do you think that other clubs know that "in NY he will never be accepted" and that he is "spooked". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I want Cano too. And Wang. And every good young player on the Yankees, since apparently, that is what all of you Yankee fans want from the Cubs. so getting a 2 time MVP and 4 time home run title winning shortstop/3rd basemen isn't enough? quit yappin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 so getting a 2 time MVP and 4 time home run title winning shortstop/3rd basemen isn't enough? quit yappin Why's he on the block then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 So you think it'll be a 6 year $100-$120 million type of deal? Again, maybe you're right but we'll just have to wait and see if he approaches those type of numbers. If so, I'd be shocked. If he gets 16 million a year, the Cubbies would be better off with A-Rod. Besides, what will Zambrano command on the open market after next season? Way more then Zito, and the rumors for Zito seem to be in the 14-15 million range!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If he gets 16 million a year, the Cubbies would be better off with A-Rod. Besides, what will Zambrano command on the open market after next season? Way more then Zito, and the rumors for Zito seem to be in the 14-15 million range!! I could Ramirez with a 4 year 44 mill contract, somewhere along those lines. More than that is too rich. Maybe Soriano approaches 6 year 15-16 mill. Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 MBN-Being able to go where you want, or have the ability to stay equals holding all the cards. How do yoiu know what A-Rods psyche and ego are? Have you talked to him about how he feels about this? Go back and read his quotes in the News or Post, or any local paper, especially when he was crucified during his brutal slump this summer. He sounded like he wanted out right away. If he wants to go, the Yankees hold all the cards. If he wants to stay, he is a fool, knowing he can never be accepted here unless he wins it all in Pinstripes. But the Yankees will have a tougher road to win if A-Rod is not A-Rod, and he can't be A-Rod in NY. And he knows it. Even after an MVP season, in 2005, he struggled in the post-season, and was booed in a most horrible fashion. You bet he wants out of here. What decision do YOU make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Why's he on the block then? because of impatient management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I could Ramirez with a 4 year 44 mill contract, somewhere along those lines. More than that is too rich. Maybe Soriano approaches 6 year 15-16 mill. Maybe Ramirez will get more along the lines of 14 million per. Probably for 4 years, with a club option for a 5th. Sori will get a million or 2 more, and so will Lee. The winner, IMO, will be Mathews from Texas. He picked the right season to have a career year. I can see him getting a 5 year, 50+ million deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Go back and read his quotes in the News or Post, or any local paper, especially when he was crucified during his brutal slump this summer. He sounded like he wanted out right away. If he wants to go, the Yankees hold all the cards. If he wants to stay, he is a fool, knowing he can never be accepted here unless he wins it all in Pinstripes. But the Yankees will have a tougher road to win if A-Rod is not A-Rod, and he can't be A-Rod in NY. And he knows it. Even after an MVP season, in 2005, he struggled in the post-season, and was booed in a most horrible fashion. You bet he wants out of here. What decision do YOU make? You stated that he has an ego. Admitting failure in NY will burst that ego. i don't know the man and I don't know how he feels. It would be a tough pill to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 You stated that he has an ego. Admitting failure in NY will burst that ego. i don't know the man and I don't know how he feels. It would be a tough pill to swallow. I think it will totally deflate him. Big time. But I doubt he can stand 4 more years like the last 3, unless he delivers/participates in a WS Championship. BTW - I did meet up with him at a charity event. It was almost impossible to get near him though. His "people" were like a wall of protection around him. But I heard him respond to some questions thrown at him. He is a cool customer, but carries a massive ego. And he constantly referred to himself in the 3rd person, which I hope his "people" have advised him to cut out. At that event, when he was asked anything concerning his relationship with Jeter, his face put on a pained expression. He has an ego, but he hates it here. I have no doubt of this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I understand how he has performed as a Yankee. However, outside of NY, in Seattle, he actually had some solid post-season performances. He definitely is "spooked", or whatever the word is, over NY. He is Ed Whitson, circa 1985, all over again. He needs a calmer environment. If he hits 50 HRs in Cubbie-land, he will be worshipped as a god there. Even if he does not deliver a WS championship. But in NY, he will never be accepted, unless the Yankees win a Championship. Other teams know all this, and also know that he will not come cheap, in terms of players/prospects in return. Okay let's examine this.... A-Rod is a stat whore. He accumulates stats when his hits and rbi's dont really have a huge impact in a game. To my recollection, he has won maybe 2 games this year for the yanks...if he is really a gamechanger you would expect to see a higher number of game winning hits or things of that nature. Also, in the postseason...he has been horifying. Benny Agbayani has more game winning hits in the Mets post season that A-rod has with the Yanks. Knowing all this.... Teams wont give up a #1 pitcher. No Zambrano...So what is left #2 pitcher and a prospect. A Trade of Ervin Santana and Chone Figgins for Choke-Rod sounds right... The yanks say they dont want him gone...but the clubhouse and team could be monumentally stronger with him out. Teams know this and will not offer top prospects. LL P.S. You know that A-rod is ready to leave NYC...he cant handle it...he is Ed Whitson all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 so getting a 2 time MVP and 4 time home run title winning shortstop/3rd basemen isn't enough? quit yappin What's that old adage? Pay a player for what he will do, not what he has done. You know what I am interested in? Winning a World Series. As highly as "get screwed by the Yankees" ranks on my list of things I want the Cubs to do, I think winning a World Series is still number one. Aramis Ramirez posted nearly identical numbers as Alex Rodriguez last season, and in some cases (home runs) bettered A-Rod. In other cases, (slugging %, K's) Aramis obliterated A-Rod. Plus, ARam is 3 years younger. So, I would have to think for a little while before I traded Aramis for ARod. However, throw in our ace that won 16 of our 66 games, posted a 3.41 ERA, and would have led the majors in strikeouts had he not missed a couple starts? That makes a ton of sense. And, it also helps accomplish my objective to get screwed by the Yankees. It doesn't help that whole "win the World Series" thing, but, man, Cubs fans love star power. ARod will make us forget we are battling the Pirates for last place every year while he chases the home run record. Where do I sign up for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What's that old adage? Pay a player for what he will do, not what he has done. You know what I am interested in? Winning a World Series. As highly as "get screwed by the Yankees" ranks on my list of things I want the Cubs to do, I think winning a World Series is still number one. Aramis Ramirez posted nearly identical numbers as Alex Rodriguez last season, and in some cases (home runs) bettered A-Rod. In other cases, (slugging %, K's) Aramis obliterated A-Rod. Plus, ARam is 3 years younger. So, I would have to think for a little while before I traded Aramis for ARod. However, throw in our ace that won 16 of our 66 games, posted a 3.41 ERA, and would have led the majors in strikeouts had he not missed a couple starts? That makes a ton of sense. And, it also helps accomplish my objective to get screwed by the Yankees. It doesn't help that whole "win the World Series" thing, but, man, Cubs fans love star power. ARod will make us forget we are battling the Pirates for last place every year while he chases the home run record. Where do I sign up for that? Yeah right the guy that has proven he is not a winner- that is the guy the Cubs would want to break their streak of not winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Final offer - Wood and Prior. I'd have thrown in Neifi Perez too but he's busy washing jockstraps in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanDoug Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Final offer - Wood and Prior. I'd have thrown in Neifi Perez too but he's busy washing jockstraps in Detroit. How many arms do Wood and Prior have? Toss some used toothpicks from the Cubbie dugout into the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Now, now, now. See, you Cub fans are acting exactly just like that..... Cub fans. You need to act more like BASEBALL fans. And that means to concede to everything that the Yankees want. That is in the best interests of BASEBALL. If you guys don't want A-Rod, there will be PLENTY of other teams offering HUGE packages to the Yankees for the honor of having a player who will compile you huge numbers, yet lead your team no where. Best player of all time you are letting slip through your finger tips. Why, just look what he did to the fortunes of the Mariners, Rangers and Yanks. THAT is what you could have. You guys really need to be smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 scott scott scott. You are so off base it isnt even funny. Take your yankee hater glasses off will ya? Comparing this to the Abreu deal? Arod is a SS, younger and a much better player than Abreu, with tons more marketability. Only a dooshe would compare the yankees looking to trade Arod with the Phillies trading Abreu, in midseason nonetheless. Zambrano for Arod is what the Yankees will ask for. The cubs might not do it, so the Yankees will just pass. The white sox have already offered Buerhle or Vazquez + Joe Crede + other top prospect. The dodgers or angels are the teams we will most likely be dealing with, but many teams will throw their hats in this as well. Absolutely anybody who is inside baseball has been writing about this the past week - there is a huge market for Arod. He cant handle the NYC pressure, but he was a very good postseason performer on the mariners. He hit .400 vs the yankees in the 2000 ALCS with 2 HRs and 5 rbis. Every team out there knows that the pressure to play in NYC is greater than anywhere else, they will not look at just this past season to gauge his value, they will be looking at his entire body of work aka his entire career. Get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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