Jump to content

Same old Jets


Matt39

Recommended Posts

What a pathetic performance. Pennington was awful.

Defensively this team is a joke. Again, we make an average runner look like Walter Payton in the first half.

For as much creativity Mangini/Schott has given this offense, our defense is just pathetic.

WILL THE JETS EVER HAVE A FRIGGIN COACH THAT WILL BLITZ???????

Charlie Frye was wearing an Armani suit in the pocket in the first half.

Im mad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Defense is ****ing pathetic. Use the bye week to scrap the ****ing 3-4 because it obviously is not working. If Mangini can't see that, then maybe he isn't who we thought he was.

For all of the **** we gave Herm for not being flexible, I think its about time we start doing the same to Mangini. This isnt working.

Our best player on defense is invisible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For all of the **** we gave Ehrm for not being flexible, I think its about time we start doing the same to Mangini. This isnt working.

Our best player on defense is invisible.

Funny you mention that. My son is going as the invisible man on Tuesday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were told on the day training camp opened we'd be .500 at midseason you would've jumped on it. Keep in mind-that's with a QB who's limited, not much of a running game and a defense, that, the less said the better. I wasn't expecting a Lombardi this year, I wanted progress. And for the msot part I've seen it. If they played a game like this in Year 2 of the Mangini regime, I'd be pissed.But there are going to be bumps in the road, gorwing pains, what ever. And today was one of those mdays.

The few concerns I come away with-

-whether for now anyway they play less 3-4 after the bye(but 3-4 is their base, period);

-long-term, what roles will Vilma, Robertson adn barton have(all looked like crap for 3 quarters);

-and the biggest question of all, what's Pennington's deal. I don't know how windy it was, but it seems again that if he makes a few mistakes early he gets down on himself and becomes useless.

Simply, I see the same problems, but I also see progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Real nice thread title. :rolleyes:

Tell, me, were the Jets supposed to be 4-4 at the midway point?

I dont know what the Jets were supposed to be. They lost a winnable game because the defense simply couldnt stop the run in the first half.

They were sof ton defense, again. Players, coaches...everyone.

BLITZ FOR CHRIST SAKES CHARLIE FRYE SUCKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were told on the day training camp opened we'd be .500 at midseason you would've jumped on it. Keep in mind-that's with a QB who's limited, not much of a running game and a defense, that, the less said the better. I wasn't expecting a Lombardi this year, I wanted progress. And for the msot part I've seen it. If they played a game like this in Year 2 of the Mangini regime, I'd be pissed.But there are going to be bumps in the road, gorwing pains, what ever. And today was one of those mdays.

The few concerns I come away with-

-whether for now anyway they play less 3-4 after the bye(but 3-4 is their base, period);

-long-term, what roles will Vilma, Robertson adn barton have(all looked like crap for 3 quarters);

-and the biggest question of all, what's Pennington's deal. I don't know how windy it was, but it seems again that if he makes a few mistakes early he gets down on himself and becomes useless.

Simply, I see the same problems, but I also see progress.

Progress on offense, not on defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Progress on offense, not on defense.

Exactly.

There has been zero progress on defense all season. I don't give a **** what we were SUPPOSED to do before the season started. Bottom line is we lost a game that we should have won and looked like **** doing it. I'm not gonna be happy-go-lucky about it because the sportswriters said we'd go 4-12.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Progress on offense, not on defense.

I don't recall the Edwards defense being very good spare Donnie Henderson's first season in 2004. No matter-Vilma looked like total crap all of the 1st half, and it wasn't because guards were getting out to him. And Robertson and Barton weren't much better. Seems like they run right at the both of them a dn then they make a tackle 7-9 yards upfield. Ellis was close to invisible. You can say rightly the scheme might be new, but damn the scheme, the supposed big-time players on this defense don't make plays no matter what the scheme is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They lost a winnable game because the defense simply couldnt stop the run in the first half.

Wrong, as bad as the D played, they held CLE to 20 points and gave Chad 3 opportunities in the 4th Q to tie the game. CLE has the worst D in the NFL. Worse than ours. Chad made them look like the 85 Bears. That is why we lost the game, plain and simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wrong, as bad as the D played, they held CLE to 20 points and gave Chad 3 opportunities in the 4th Q to tie the game. CLE has the worst D in the NFL. Worse than ours. Chad made them look like the 85 Bears. That is why we lost the game, plain and simple.

Check the TOP in the first half. I can assure you without even looking at it, that it isnt pretty.

The game was lost then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can lay a bunch of the blame on Chad too. You throw 2 INTs and go 3 and out, and of course you won't have good TOP.

Oh absolutely. Chad has played pretty well all season, though. Maybe for once I thought the defense could step up a little and carry the team when they were obviously struggling offensively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same Old Jets? I don't think so....but it sure felt like it tonight, didn't it? Painful, to say the least.

And for those asking the absolutely assinine question "Duh, did you REALLY think they'd be 4-4 at the halfway? Of course not, be happy!", that is such utter crap. Of course they should be 4-4, and I (for one) predicted a growing 8-8 for the season. The pain is that they SHOULD be 6-2, having held the lead vs. the Colts, and beaten this pathetic Browns team. Both losses are inexcuseable, EVEN from a learning/growing/rebuilding team.

Yes, I'm semi-happy with 4-4 (better than 1-7 right?), but in my mind I know they should be better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Straight on true.

I don't know what the cap implications are, but as for Ellis, Robertson, Barton and Vilma, if come January Mangini figures any of those guys isn't worth their cap numbers, take care, see ya, don't let the door hit you on the way out. But for the Browns going into a shell the defense did very little for 3 1/2 quarters, and the guys making the most money were the worst offenders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Id hope Mangini would go back to the 4-3 before contemplating cutting Vilma. Really, Vilma is a very good fotoball player who is just in the wrong defense. The kid was a terror for the Chargers and Steelers in those two playoff games his rookie season.

Vilma is a 4-3 sideline to sideline tackling machine, not a 3-4 gap plugger. Its not his deal.Ray Lewis is a top 5 MLBer of all time and the 3-4 made him look very ordinary too.

On top of that the kid gives you his absolute all every sunday. I remember that Pats Monday night game last year with absolutely nothing to play for Vilma was all over the field like a complete wild man.

Getting rid of him would be a huge mistake. IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry-gotta disagree. There are a lot of plays now anyway where Vilma stands there doing very little, or gets pushed down by a fullback or a TE. The tackles he is making are way upfield, such that the offense is more than happy to get 7-9 yards by running right at him. It's not simply that Robertson and thre DL are doing a poor job; he's not a great player.

Put it this way-in the late to mid-1990s, the Raiders had a guy named Greg Biekert at LB, who invariably led or was close to the lead in the NFL in tackles during that period. But Greg Biekert wasn't a great LB per se, just a guy playing on a defense who was the most obvious player for offenses to run at as compared to the other guys on the defense;so teams ran at him. The fact that stats reflected he tackled a bunch of ballcarriers was nice, but it didn't necessarily show Greg Biekert was a great player.

Kinda think increasingly given Vilma's small size and the fact that he gets pushed around but does get into plays late means a lot of the same-Vilma is small and not terribly strong. He's active and there at the the end of the play.His numbers are always good-lookig on the stats sheet. He's our Greg Biekert. He's not big or strong or tough enough to be a great linebacker. He doesn't make a difference or change the game,teams aren't scheming to stop Jon Vilma, and he doens't bust up a play often. And that's the major problem with the jets defense as a whole. We have 3 or 4 guys-Vilma, Ellis, Robertson and Barton-who are paid like they should be guys teams have to scheme against and be game breakers. And simply the 4 guys aren't on that level. And I don't think playing the 3-4 or the 4-3 changes that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry-gotta disagree. There are a lot of plays now anyway where Vilma stands there doing very little, or gets pushed down by a fullback or a TE. The tackles he is making are way upfield, such that the offense is more than happy to get 7-9 yards by running right at him. It's not simply that Robertson and thre DL are doing a poor job; he's not a great player.

Put it this way-in the late to mid-1990s, the Raiders had a guy named Greg Biekert at LB, who invariably led or was close to the lead in the NFL in tackles during that period. But Greg Biekert wasn't a great LB per se, just a guy playing on a defense who was the most obvious player for offenses to run at as compared to the other guys on the defense;so teams ran at him. The fact that stats reflected he tackled a bunch of ballcarriers was nice, but it didn't necessarily show Greg Biekert was a great player.

Kinda think increasingly given Vilma's small size and the fact that he gets pushed around but does get into plays late means a lot of the same-Vilma is small and not terribly strong. He's active and there at the the end of the play.His numbers are always good-lookig on the stats sheet. He's our Greg Biekert. He's not big or strong or tough enough to be a great linebacker. He doesn't make a difference or change the game,teams aren't scheming to stop Jon Vilma, and he doens't bust up a play often. And that's the major problem with the jets defense as a whole. We have 3 or 4 guys-Vilma, Ellis, Robertson and Barton-who are paid like they should be guys teams have to scheme against and be game breakers. And simply the 4 guys aren't on that level. And I don't think playing the 3-4 or the 4-3 changes that.

Question:

Were you advocating the Jets cutting Vilma after his Defensive Rookie of the year award?

How about after his probowl in his 2nd season?

Its the system. Vilma is too small for the 3-4.

You dont frickin cut him, thats 1 of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Oh and yes, teams were scheming to stop Vilma all last year after his great rookie year, you dont know what you are speaking of bugg.

Now Ellis and Robertson underperform anyways, but they're not 3-4 guys either. They're just solid 4-3, nothing special.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question:

Were you advocating the Jets cutting Vilma after his Defensive Rookie of the year award?

How about after his probowl in his 2nd season?

Its the system. Vilma is too small for the 3-4.

You dont frickin cut him, thats 1 of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Oh and yes, teams were scheming to stop Vilma all last year after his great rookie year, you dont know what you are speaking of bugg.

Now Ellis and Robertson underperform anyways, but they're not 3-4 guys either. They're just solid 4-3, nothing special.

They aren't giving him away. But the problem is you keep blaming the system, and I'm telling you-Vilma is too small. He gets knocked back by ball carriers every time. It's not just the DL. On passing downs he's less than usless. It's all fine and good to blame the 3-4, but he's had a whole winter, training camp and 8 games to understand it. ANd he still looks like some kid who got left behind on a school field trip most plays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They aren't giving him away. But the problem is you keep blaming the system, and I'm telling you-Vilma is too small. He gets knocked back by ball carriers every time. It's not just the DL. On passing downs he's less than usless. It's all fine and good to blame the 3-4, but he's had a whole winter, training camp and 8 games to understand it. ANd he still looks like some kid who got left behind on a school field trip most plays.

Yes, too small for the 3-4.

Were you saying he was too small when he was a 4-3 probowl MLB at age 23?

8 games is not much. The 3-4 is complex, and if your nosetackle sucks, then so do you. I think he'll end up being decent in the 3-4, but way better off for the 4-3, as is this entire defense. I hope Mangini wakes up and switches back to it next year. We arent going anywhere with this 3-4 crap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry-gotta disagree. There are a lot of plays now anyway where Vilma stands there doing very little, or gets pushed down by a fullback or a TE. The tackles he is making are way upfield, such that the offense is more than happy to get 7-9 yards by running right at him. It's not simply that Robertson and thre DL are doing a poor job; he's not a great player.

Put it this way-in the late to mid-1990s, the Raiders had a guy named Greg Biekert at LB, who invariably led or was close to the lead in the NFL in tackles during that period. But Greg Biekert wasn't a great LB per se, just a guy playing on a defense who was the most obvious player for offenses to run at as compared to the other guys on the defense;so teams ran at him. The fact that stats reflected he tackled a bunch of ballcarriers was nice, but it didn't necessarily show Greg Biekert was a great player.

Kinda think increasingly given Vilma's small size and the fact that he gets pushed around but does get into plays late means a lot of the same-Vilma is small and not terribly strong. He's active and there at the the end of the play.His numbers are always good-lookig on the stats sheet. He's our Greg Biekert. He's not big or strong or tough enough to be a great linebacker. He doesn't make a difference or change the game,teams aren't scheming to stop Jon Vilma, and he doens't bust up a play often. And that's the major problem with the jets defense as a whole. We have 3 or 4 guys-Vilma, Ellis, Robertson and Barton-who are paid like they should be guys teams have to scheme against and be game breakers. And simply the 4 guys aren't on that level. And I don't think playing the 3-4 or the 4-3 changes that.

Im not disagreeing with you. Vilma is not playing well at all and I think most of that has to do with the defensive system. Were you honestly NOT satisfied with Vilma's performance in 2004? He is a 4-3 MLBer who needs to fatsoes in front of him to keep him clean. When you get that for him he will roam and make plays all over the field. He played extremely well in two playoff games his rookie year. If you pop in the game when the Ravens played the Chiefs 2 years ago you'd see Ray Lewis get pushed around like a rag doll too. 230-240 pound Linebackers are not going to defeat OLINEmen.

Vilma is not a great player, but we dont need him to be. i think he is very good.

If the Jets let VIlma go teams would line up around the block for his services.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wrong, as bad as the D played, they held CLE to 20 points and gave Chad 3 opportunities in the 4th Q to tie the game. CLE has the worst D in the NFL. Worse than ours. Chad made them look like the 85 Bears. That is why we lost the game, plain and simple.

Once again, Booz nailed it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...