Anybody else feel bad for Schlegel?

[SoFlaJets]

I mean this kid was guilty of trying too hard yesterday on ST's-I'm afaraid it might just have cost him the rest of the season on inactive duty...I kinda hope he gets one more shot

[Bob]

Screw him. If it was a close game, he would have given it away.

[Mavrik]

I feel bad about using a draft pick on him.

[BP]

I still like him..we cant give up on him yet..it's not lack of effort..thats for sure..

He probably just needs to get more comfortable..sucks..he has had some high profile brain fart mishaps this year and in preseason

[Sperm Edwards]

I feel bad about using a draft pick on him.

[SoFlaJets]

one thing is for sure if the guy ain't got "it" it doesn't matter WHERE he was drafted he won't be a Jet too long....

[faba]

Westoff let him have it for sure- if he cost the Jets a game would you still feel sorry for him?

[SoFlaJets]

Westoff let him have it for sure- if he cost the Jets a game would you still feel sorry for him?

no-whole different animal there faba...the game wasn't close and the kid was trying to make his bones and screwed up TWICE yesterday.If he had cost us the game I would have posted the Can We Get Rid Of Schlegle Now? thread by 4:15 yesterday afternoon

[Ten]

I feel sorry for him,he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.I don't remember Leon Wasington getting crucified for his muffed kick off return.

[Preston Howley III]

I feel sorry for him,he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.I don't remember Leon Wasington getting crucified for his muffed kick off return.

Or Drew Coleman slipping against the Bears.

[SoFlaJets]

I don't think we'll have to really feel sorry for him unless he gets put back on the inactive list for his F-ups....I think Mangini and Westhoff will see they were crimes of OVER agression rather than underplaying-like I saw a lot of from the Giants last night

[Gibbon]

SoFla:

This is a really sensitive thread.

I feel sorry for him for being called out by so many idiot fans for trying to make the right play on the onside kick. He made the right play -- to do nothing would have resulted in a GB recovery on the 41. He just hit the guy like he was gonna tackle him and his hand hit the ball. Thats not a brain fart that's an acident, like a tipped ball being intercepted. If he hadnt touched the ball its a great play. In other words right thinking, quick reaction, bad hand placement.

The block in the back was a mistake. He hit the guy in the side but he couldnt get his head in front. The refs are gonna call that every time.

[JetCane]

SoFla:

This is a really sensitive thread.

I feel sorry for him for being called out by so many idiot fans for trying to make the right play on the onside kick. He made the right play -- to do nothing would have resulted in a GB recovery on the 41. He just hit the guy like he was gonna tackle him and his hand hit the ball. Thats not a brain fart that's an acident, like a tipped ball being intercepted. If he hadnt touched the ball its a great play. In other words right thinking, quick reaction, bad hand placement.

The block in the back was a mistake. He hit the guy in the side but he couldnt get his head in front. The refs are gonna call that every time.

So what you are saying is that he otherwise had an outstanding game.

[Iceman88]

The reason nobody feels sorry for Schlegel is cause he hasn't done a thing for us right now and we wasted a third round pick on him. I'm pretty sure we could have gotten Ko Simpson at that point which also makes the Eric Smith pick not look to good.

[Gibbon]

So what you are saying is that he otherwise had an outstanding game.

Good one. No, a crap game for him I'm sure, but its not what people here are making it out to be. If he had stood there and watched the guy field the onside kick at the 40 then I would agree with the bonehead play assessment.

He had some good blocks and helped finish off a tackle.

[SoFlaJets]

SoFla:

This is a really sensitive thread.

I feel sorry for him for being called out by so many idiot fans for trying to make the right play on the onside kick. He made the right play -- to do nothing would have resulted in a GB recovery on the 41. He just hit the guy like he was gonna tackle him and his hand hit the ball. Thats not a brain fart that's an acident, like a tipped ball being intercepted. If he hadnt touched the ball its a great play. In other words right thinking, quick reaction, bad hand placement.

The block in the back was a mistake. He hit the guy in the side but he couldnt get his head in front. The refs are gonna call that every time.

hey I'm cool with sensitive I think it beats to hell the whole internet tough guy routine by a mile

[124]

No, I don't feel bad for Schlegel for ****ing up TWICE in the game. Yeah, he gives his all but if he makes mistakes I'm not going to feel bad for him.

[Sperm Edwards]

The reason nobody feels sorry for Schlegel is cause he hasn't done a thing for us right now and we wasted a third round pick on him. I'm pretty sure we could have gotten Ko Simpson at that point which also makes the Eric Smith pick not look to good.

Jerious Norwood

Max Jean-Gilles

Ko Simpson

Gabe Watson

Jahri Evans

Jason Hatcher

...or Anthony Schlegel & Eric Smith

You may throw up now.

[Iceman88]

Jerious Norwood

Max Jean-Gilles

Ko Simpson

Gabe Watson

Jahri Evans

Jason Hatcher

...or Anthony Schlegel & Eric Smith

You may throw up now.

Besides the third round though I think our draft was flawless.

[JonEJet]

So Sperm, when Anthony turns the corner, and turns out to be a solid player in this system, will you turn into a biiiitch once again and admit you were wrong, just as in the case of Bryan Thomas??

[jetsfanbkny]

Jerious Norwood

Max Jean-Gilles

Ko Simpson

Gabe Watson

Jahri Evans

Jason Hatcher

...or Anthony Schlegel & Eric Smith

You may throw up now.

:bag:

[Gibbon]

Jerious Norwood

Max Jean-Gilles

Ko Simpson

Gabe Watson

Jahri Evans

Jason Hatcher

...or Anthony Schlegel & Eric Smith

You may throw up now.

Ok, that may be the dumbest post ever by a moderator.

With the exception of Ko Simpson your choices as replacement third rounders make no sense.

Norwood -- if the Jets pick him in the third then they dont pick Leon Washington in the 4th

Gabe Watson -- he's started 8 games for the worst team in the league and managed 13 tackles and a sack, most of which he got in the first 4 games.

Max Jean-Giles has yet to play a down

Jahri Evans -- has played 12 games at guard, but I wasnt aware that this was a position of need for the Jets on draft day.

Jason Hatcher -- 10 Games 8 tackles.

Hind sight is a beautiful thing, but there are no missed gems in this list other than Simpson -- I'll take Leon and his attitude over Norwood anyday.

Question the Schlegel pick all you want and ignore who he is playing behind and the injuries that got the guys you love so much on the field, but leave Smith out of it. He's played all twelve games, has seen significant and solid time on D, played special teams, made 28 tackles and had an interception. He is proving that he can play and will a productive player.

[Pragmatic Bus]

ALL OF YOU HATERS NEED TO SHUT UP! WE WON THE GAME. NO WAIT WE BLEW OUT PACKER AT LAMBUE. SO STOP WHINING LIKE BABIES :baby:

[Bob]

Ok, that may be the dumbest post ever by a moderator.

Have you seen GOB's work?

[jetophile]

I feel sorry for him,he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.I don't remember Leon Wasington getting crucified for his muffed kick off return.

Or for almost getting Clemens killed during the pre-season for not picking up blitz. Several times. That's gotten better, but HOLY.

Schlegel's gaffes happened not to cost us, but I would be feeling a hell of a lot more sorry for ME if it had.

[Gibbon]

Since this thread has its what ifs posts already let me give you another one.

If a Jet had recovered the ball on the onside kick instead of the Packers -- if another one of them had been hustling forward -- would Schlegel's play look like a mistake or a good play that broke up a sure onside kick recovery?

[Sperm Edwards]

Ok, that may be the dumbest post ever by a moderator.

With the exception of Ko Simpson your choices as replacement third rounders make no sense.

Norwood -- if the Jets pick him in the third then they dont pick Leon Washington in the 4th

Gabe Watson -- he's started 8 games for the worst team in the league and managed 13 tackles and a sack, most of which he got in the first 4 games.

Max Jean-Giles has yet to play a down

Jahri Evans -- has played 12 games at guard, but I wasnt aware that this was a position of need for the Jets on draft day.

Jason Hatcher -- 10 Games 8 tackles.

Hind sight is a beautiful thing, but there are no missed gems in this list other than Simpson -- I'll take Leon and his attitude over Norwood anyday.

Question the Schlegel pick all you want and ignore who he is playing behind and the injuries that got the guys you love so much on the field, but leave Smith out of it. He's played all twelve games, has seen significant and solid time on D, played special teams, made 28 tackles and had an interception. He is proving that he can play and will a productive player.

First of all, take a pill. If you want me to start calling your intelligence into question I am more than capable of returning in kind.

All of these picks would have been better than Schlegel, who wasn't good enough to be activated for over half the season. And Smith is nothing special. Neither are. And neither were expected to be. And both are slower than my fat-ass relatives right after Thanksgiving dinner.

Hatcher wouldn't have been my first choice there; frankly I expected him to last until at least the 5th round. He would still be a better option than Schlegel. Because he couldn't beat out a veteran starter doing a more than adequate job, while he's a rookie, you feel he would be a bad pick for the Jets who have no such luxury? Hatcher's 6'6/>300lbs and is their #3 DE as a rookie.

Sorry but as much as I like Leon Washington, Norwood would've been a better pick. He's bigger, clearly is fast enough to take it 60 yards to the house, and has power that Leon will never have. No one outside of the circle of Jets fans (and maybe a some FSU fans) would rather have Leon Washington. If he's so great, why is Cedric Houston now getting more carries? Norwood is the total package. Leon is not. He will make an outstanding change-of-pace & 3rd-down back & have a few scattered games where he outperforms expectations. That's very nice and there's always a place for a guy like that on the roster. But Norwood will be a pro-bowler. Anyone who watches him play can see that.

Watson is a friggin' rookie playing with zero talent around him. And call it a hunch, but I think the Jets' coaches are better than Arizona's. I know it's a stretch to think so, but just go with me on that. You must think DRob & Kerry Rhodes & Bryan Thomas would be playing at just as high a level on Dennis Green's Cardinals.

Jean-Gilles was a luxury pick for Philly. But they felt he was too good of a talent to pass on. There is no way this guy stays a backup for long. And I'd take him any day over Moore.

Jahri Evans - see above. And if you didn't think we needed an OG to replace Moore you don't watch many Jets games. He's awful. Would be a top-notch backup, but we can (and will) do better as our regular starter.

And because teams with better depth at these positions took these players (BEFORE they became emergency needs) you therefore feel that they will rot on the bench forever? I'm glad you weren't our GM when Coles was a rookie. Would you have released him?

They were ALL considered better pro prospects on draft day. This isn't hindsight. Many of us wanted some or all of them BEFORE the draft. If it was hindsight I'd have listed Colston in there. Hindsight comments are for when someone brings up players that were supposed to be nothing. These guys were all expected to be NFL starters - if not very GOOD NFL starters - before too long. Schlegel was not & Smith was not.

You really have unrealistic expectations for mid-round rookies during their rookie seasons on teams who don't need upgrades at the rookies' positions. I think it is realistic to expect third-rounders to be on the active roster every week. Smith also had a realistic opportunity to take the starting job away from Coleman & lost it as fast as the opportunity presented itself. Smith's playing on special teams is fine. But you find special teams & dime-package players in round 6, not round 3. Not when MUCH-needed linemen, with size & true talent, are there.

[Gibbon]

First of all, take a pill. If you want me to start calling your intelligence into question I am more than capable of returning in kind.

All of these picks would have been better than Schlegel, who wasn't good enough to be activated for over half the season. And Smith is nothing special. Neither are. And neither were expected to be. And both are slower than my fat-ass relatives right after Thanksgiving dinner.

Hatcher wouldn't have been my first choice there; frankly I expected him to last until at least the 5th round. He would still be a better option than Schlegel. Because he couldn't beat out a veteran starter doing a more than adequate job, while he's a rookie, you feel he would be a bad pick for the Jets who have no such luxury? Hatcher's 6'6/>300lbs and is their #3 DE as a rookie.

Sorry but as much as I like Leon Washington, Norwood would've been a better pick. He's bigger, clearly is fast enough to take it 60 yards to the house, and has power that Leon will never have. No one outside of the circle of Jets fans (and maybe a some FSU fans) would rather have Leon Washington. If he's so great, why is Cedric Houston now getting more carries? Norwood is the total package. Leon is not. He will make an outstanding change-of-pace & 3rd-down back & have a few scattered games where he outperforms expectations. That's very nice and there's always a place for a guy like that on the roster. But Norwood will be a pro-bowler. Anyone who watches him play can see that.

Watson is a friggin' rookie playing with zero talent around him. And call it a hunch, but I think the Jets' coaches are better than Arizona's. I know it's a stretch to think so, but just go with me on that. You must think DRob & Kerry Rhodes & Bryan Thomas would be playing at just as high a level on Dennis Green's Cardinals.

Jean-Gilles was a luxury pick for Philly. But they felt he was too good of a talent to pass on. There is no way this guy stays a backup for long. And I'd take him any day over Moore.

Jahri Evans - see above. And if you didn't think we needed an OG to replace Moore you don't watch many Jets games. He's awful. Would be a top-notch backup, but we can (and will) do better as our regular starter.

And because teams with better depth at these positions took these players (BEFORE they became emergency needs) you therefore feel that they will rot on the bench forever? I'm glad you weren't our GM when Coles was a rookie. Would you have released him?

They were ALL considered better pro prospects on draft day. This isn't hindsight. Many of us wanted some or all of them BEFORE the draft. If it was hindsight I'd have listed Colston in there. Hindsight comments are for when someone brings up players that were supposed to be nothing. These guys were all expected to be NFL starters - if not very GOOD NFL starters - before too long. Schlegel was not & Smith was not.

You really have unrealistic expectations for mid-round rookies during their rookie seasons on teams who don't need upgrades at the rookies' positions. I think it is realistic to expect third-rounders to be on the active roster every week. Smith also had a realistic opportunity to take the starting job away from Coleman & lost it as fast as the opportunity presented itself. Smith's playing on special teams is fine. But you find special teams & dime-package players in round 6, not round 3. Not when MUCH-needed linemen, with size & true talent, are there.

Nice circular argument.

So, Schlegel and Smith suck because they havent been able to beat out veteran talent at their positions, but Hatcher and Giles dont. I have unrealistic expectations for mid-round rookies when you criticize one mid round rookie (Schlegel) who plays behind Vilma, Barton, and Kassell and another who has played every game for the Jets has almost thirty tackles and a pick? Pick a line of logic and stick to it. Your arguments will hold more weight. I didnt point out the limited production and playing time of the guys you listed as a criticism of them, but as a way of refuting your point that they would have been better picks than Schlegel/ Smith. Most of the guys you listed, for reasons that explain Schlegel and Smiths situation, havent contributed a great deal more to their teams than Schlegel and particularly Smith have to theirs. That was my point. Since we agree that this is true then they cant be, based on their performance, better picks for the JETS.

Watson is a rookie who only plays because the Cardinals have zero talent. He wouldnt play NT for the Jets therefore he also would not have been a better pick. On draft day the Jets had DRob and Pouha. NT didnt seem like as big a need on draft day as it did on the first day of the season. Thats hind sight.

The guard position on draft day was also not a priority. The Jets drafted Mangold and D'Brick. They had Kendell and didnt know that (ah crap I forgot his name) the guy veteran lineman who got hurt during the summer and is now on IR was going to be hurt. Hind sight again.

Leon v. Norwood is a matter of taste I suppose. If Norwood was percieved by so many people as being such a guaranteed probowler, why did so many people pass on him in the first, second, and early third rounds? Answer that question and you'll have your explanation about why the Jets didnt take him in the third. I'll also point out that the Jets were apparantly not 100% certain that Curtis Martin wasnt coming back.

You are the one whose expectations of Schlegel and Smith are unrealistic because apparantly you believe since they were suprise 3rd rounders they have to play like 1st rounders to justify their draft position. Thats what is unrealistic.

I have said before that Schlegel's failure to play on ST early was disturbing, but it could be that there were reasons for that besides he sucks (Coach Westoff indicated btw that there were some techniques that he wanted Schlegel to improve on before he played him). One reason might be that a 3-4 defensive team carries more LBs than a 4-3 defensive team. At least 8 and probably 9 (every team seems to have one specific ST specialist LB ours is Spencer) That means, since the starting LBs dont play on kick coverage that there is a competition between the other 5 LBs for the 4 LB spots on ST. On the Jets one of those positions is going to be filled by Chatham every week. He's an 11 year veteran and an ST captain. Spencer/Myers is/ was the ST specialist. Kassell is a five year vet with 4 years of very good ST play. And finally Riddle who is a veteran of the ST as well. I'd be willing to bet that the LBs that have been playing ST for the entire year for other teams didnt have nearly the competition for spots that Schlegel has had. After all as you said about another player: He's a rookie trying to play his way past veteran talent and experience.

[PeterNorth09]

I feel sorry for him,he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.I don't remember Leon Wasington getting crucified for his muffed kick off return.

At least Washington has shown something this year. Schlegel doesn't even look like he belongs in the league.

[PeterNorth09]

Norwood -- if the Jets pick him in the third then they dont pick Leon Washington in the 4th

Gabe Watson -- he's started 8 games for the worst team in the league and managed 13 tackles and a sack, most of which he got in the first 4 games.

Max Jean-Giles has yet to play a down

Question the Schlegel pick all you want and ignore who he is playing behind and the injuries that got the guys you love so much on the field, but leave Smith out of it. He's played all twelve games, has seen significant and solid time on D, played special teams, made 28 tackles and had an interception. He is proving that he can play and will a productive player.

Jerious Norwood is better than Leon Washington.

Gabe Watson is a Defensive Tackle. He is supposed to occupy blockers and free up the LB's and secondary to make plays. He is a project but he will eventually be at least a decent run-stuffer in the NFL.

Max Jean-Gilles will become a good lineman in the NFL. The Eagles are one of the better teams in the NFL at evaluating O-line talent. He'll eventually get a chance but right now Todd Herremans and Shawn Andrews are the starters there.

Don't forget Jonathan Scott and Ryan O'Callaghan. Was Schlegel also taken over Anthony Fasano and Leonard Pope? If so wow.

[JetCane]

Neither smith nor schlegel have shown me much this season.

they'll both have a fight to make the team next summer. doesnt mean they wont get better, but so far, not so good

[Sperm Edwards]

Nice circular argument.

So, Schlegel and Smith suck because they havent been able to beat out veteran talent at their positions, but Hatcher and Giles dont. I have unrealistic expectations for mid-round rookies when you criticize one mid round rookie (Schlegel) who plays behind Vilma, Barton, and Kassell and another who has played every game for the Jets has almost thirty tackles and a pick? Pick a line of logic and stick to it. Your arguments will hold more weight. I didnt point out the limited production and playing time of the guys you listed as a criticism of them, but as a way of refuting your point that they would have been better picks than Schlegel/ Smith. Most of the guys you listed, for reasons that explain Schlegel and Smiths situation, havent contributed a great deal more to their teams than Schlegel and particularly Smith have to theirs. That was my point. Since we agree that this is true then they cant be, based on their performance, better picks for the JETS.

Watson is a rookie who only plays because the Cardinals have zero talent. He wouldnt play NT for the Jets therefore he also would not have been a better pick. On draft day the Jets had DRob and Pouha. NT didnt seem like as big a need on draft day as it did on the first day of the season. Thats hind sight.

The guard position on draft day was also not a priority. The Jets drafted Mangold and D'Brick. They had Kendell and didnt know that (ah crap I forgot his name) the guy veteran lineman who got hurt during the summer and is now on IR was going to be hurt. Hind sight again.

Leon v. Norwood is a matter of taste I suppose. If Norwood was percieved by so many people as being such a guaranteed probowler, why did so many people pass on him in the first, second, and early third rounds? Answer that question and you'll have your explanation about why the Jets didnt take him in the third. I'll also point out that the Jets were apparantly not 100% certain that Curtis Martin wasnt coming back.

You are the one whose expectations of Schlegel and Smith are unrealistic because apparantly you believe since they were suprise 3rd rounders they have to play like 1st rounders to justify their draft position. Thats what is unrealistic.

I have said before that Schlegel's failure to play on ST early was disturbing, but it could be that there were reasons for that besides he sucks (Coach Westoff indicated btw that there were some techniques that he wanted Schlegel to improve on before he played him). One reason might be that a 3-4 defensive team carries more LBs than a 4-3 defensive team. At least 8 and probably 9 (every team seems to have one specific ST specialist LB ours is Spencer) That means, since the starting LBs dont play on kick coverage that there is a competition between the other 5 LBs for the 4 LB spots on ST. On the Jets one of those positions is going to be filled by Chatham every week. He's an 11 year veteran and an ST captain. Spencer/Myers is/ was the ST specialist. Kassell is a five year vet with 4 years of very good ST play. And finally Riddle who is a veteran of the ST as well. I'd be willing to bet that the LBs that have been playing ST for the entire year for other teams didnt have nearly the competition for spots that Schlegel has had. After all as you said about another player: He's a rookie trying to play his way past veteran talent and experience.

You've got to be joking. You didn't think 3-4 NT was a need on the Jets because we had an underachieving DRob, who'd never played the position, was never a space-eater - he's a penetrator, and was coming off a sub-par season when he was out of shape for most of the year, and had a huge cap # that Mangini/Tannenbaum chose to absorb for 1 year instead of extending him & lower his cap #. Oh, and Sione Pouha, 27 years old & couldn't beat out James Reed for the NT position (who he outweighted by 40 lbs).

NT was a need on draft day. Personally I thought after Mario was gone the three players we were most considering were D'Brick, Cutler, and Ngata (who I still think would've been the best choice of the three with so many OT's in this draft).

With players like Kassel & Chatham coming in (or available at the time of the draft) & having Barton & Vilma entrenched as healthy starters who are not near the ends of their careers, we drafted a backup ILB instead of a potentially dominant player.

If we liked Schlegel & Smith so much, we should've drafted them later or not at all. But you don't reach like that. You don't take guys projected to be available in rounds 5-7 (if drafted at all) and take them on day one. Why didn't we take Clemens, who we clearly wanted badly, with a first round pick? Because we'd lose out on first-round talent to acquire a player who would've been available later. Same story here.

Curtis Martin not coming back should have little impact on whether or not you draft his replacement, when he's coming off his worst season ever, is 33 years old, and there was certainly a decent possibility that he wouldn't play. Even if he did play this year, he wouldn't play for much longer. Norwood lasted until the 3rd round b/c of the ridiculous talent pool that came out in 2006. A year earlier he probably would've gone early 2nd round, if not in round 1 when guys like Roddy White went in the first.

I agree that Norwood vs Leon is a matter of taste. My taste is for a RB who can push a defender back after contact AND maybe dance around one instead of one who has the potential for only the latter.

I'm very, very happy with Mangini & Tannenbaum, but they totally dropped the ball in round 3. It was their first draft. You don't draft low-potential guys at positions of non-need over high-potential guys at positions of need, particularly with day-one picks.

My issue was not in taking Schlegel or Smith. My issue was taking them so early when better players were available. Take them later on or let someone else reach for them. No one's complaining about Titus Adams not panning out. But if we took him in round 3 you'd be hearing an awful lot of it.

[Gibbon]

You've got to be joking. You didn't think 3-4 NT was a need on the Jets because we had an underachieving DRob, who'd never played the position, was never a space-eater - he's a penetrator, and was coming off a sub-par season when he was out of shape for most of the year, and had a huge cap # that Mangini/Tannenbaum chose to absorb for 1 year instead of extending him & lower his cap #. Oh, and Sione Pouha, 27 years old & couldn't beat out James Reed for the NT position (who he outweighted by 40 lbs).

NT was a need on draft day. Personally I thought after Mario was gone the three players we were most considering were D'Brick, Cutler, and Ngata (who I still think would've been the best choice of the three with so many OT's in this draft).

With players like Kassel & Chatham coming in (or available at the time of the draft) & having Barton & Vilma entrenched as healthy starters who are not near the ends of their careers, we drafted a backup ILB instead of a potentially dominant player.

If we liked Schlegel & Smith so much, we should've drafted them later or not at all. But you don't reach like that. You don't take guys projected to be available in rounds 5-7 (if drafted at all) and take them on day one. Why didn't we take Clemens, who we clearly wanted badly, with a first round pick? Because we'd lose out on first-round talent to acquire a player who would've been available later. Same story here.

Curtis Martin not coming back should have little impact on whether or not you draft his replacement, when he's coming off his worst season ever, is 33 years old, and there was certainly a decent possibility that he wouldn't play. Even if he did play this year, he wouldn't play for much longer. Norwood lasted until the 3rd round b/c of the ridiculous talent pool that came out in 2006. A year earlier he probably would've gone early 2nd round, if not in round 1 when guys like Roddy White went in the first.

I agree that Norwood vs Leon is a matter of taste. My taste is for a RB who can push a defender back after contact AND maybe dance around one instead of one who has the potential for only the latter.

I'm very, very happy with Mangini & Tannenbaum, but they totally dropped the ball in round 3. It was their first draft. You don't draft low-potential guys at positions of non-need over high-potential guys at positions of need, particularly with day-one picks.

My issue was not in taking Schlegel or Smith. My issue was taking them so early when better players were available. Take them later on or let someone else reach for them. No one's complaining about Titus Adams not panning out. But if we took him in round 3 you'd be hearing an awful lot of it.

So when the Eagles draft a guard that they dont need its a luxury pick, but when the Jets draft an LB in the third that they dont need immediatly its a reach and a bust. Draft projections become meaningless on draft day. I suggest that you stop worrying about past draft projections. Obviously many teams, like the Jets, didnt feel that the players you are talking up were worth a 3rd or better either. Schlegel and Smith are 3rd round picks because an NFL team believed they were worth 3rd round picks. If the Jets projected them as 3rd rounders then that is all that matters. Saying they shouldnt have picked them there because Mel Kiper et al. didnt have them projected there suggests that the team should pay more attention to the independent media "experts" than their own analysis which sounds inherently flawed to me. As for them not "panning out" arent you the one who told me to have realistic expectations for 3rd round picks?

On draft day the coaching staff looked at the NT position and saw a high pick that they were paying a lot of money to that they were going to try at the position and at least one veteran back up. Therefore NT didnt seem like a big need. Gabe Watson was passed on by every team except one in desperate need of a D line and even they waited till the 4th round. He was not a hot enough commodity to warrant a 3rd round pick from the Jets particularly with his questionable work ethic and on again/ off again performance.

"If we liked Schlegel and Smith so much we should have drafted them later or not at all"

Huh? So the Jets front office should have passed on players they liked? Does this make sense to you? If the Jets liked these players then to them it wasnt a reach. Its just a reach to you and people who put too much faith in predraft rankings. Your belief that they are reaches colors you opinion of their play and their potential. If you are drafting high character, high motor leaders because you have a team philosophy that doesnt put measurable physical talent above everything else then you do take players that "draft experts" dont have rated as high.

The Jets didnt take Clemons in the 1st round because they believed, correctly, that their biggest needs were at LT and Center. Thats why they drafte D'Brick and Mangold in the 1st. They drafted Clemons as soon as they could given the immediate needs of the team. That's a pretty high endorsement.

[CoachTsurfing]

Sperm, I have to agree with you. Which isn't too often by the way. The schelgal pick would have been fine. in round 6. Magini reached on him because he was a character guy with football smarts. He missed one part of the equation. Will he become a good nfl player. There was a lot of talent left on the board that we should have considered. The hindsite issue doesn't come into play because tons of Jet fans were scratching their heads wondering why we would chose a lb when that is one of our strength positions. Now, had we picked giles or norwood or some of the others you listed and were debating which one would have been better that would have been hindsite because they were rated around the same area. Schelgal was a reach, Magini wanted to make a statement about picking character over talent and we lost out on a player that is better now then Schelgal. Not saying that Schelal doesn't have a chance to get better. Just that the talent we passed up on wan't even close to Schelgal.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm, I have to agree with you. Which isn't too often by the way. The schelgal pick would have been fine. in round 6. Magini reached on him because he was a character guy with football smarts. He missed one part of the equation. Will he become a good nfl player. There was a lot of talent left on the board that we should have considered. The hindsite issue doesn't come into play because tons of Jet fans were scratching their heads wondering why we would chose a lb when that is one of our strength positions. Now, had we picked giles or norwood or some of the others you listed and were debating which one would have been better that would have been hindsite because they were rated around the same area. Schelgal was a reach, Magini wanted to make a statement about picking character over talent and we lost out on a player that is better now then Schelgal. Not saying that Schelal doesn't have a chance to get better. Just that the talent we passed up on wan't even close to Schelgal.

Some things aren't just a matter of opinion (which you & I disagree plenty on & that's fine). With some things, there's right and wrong.

You don't go to McDonald's and pay $150 for a burger and fries.

You don't pull on Superman's cape. You don't spit into the wind.

And you don't draft 6th-round talent in round 3.