124 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 If the Bills committed all those players to stop the run, why couldn't the Jets beat them with the pass? Pennington hit a career-high 32 of 39 passes -- including 15 straight at one point -- for 290 yards, one touchdown and two interceptions, but nearly all of his completions were of the dink-and-dunk variety and didn't really hurt Buffalo. Therein lies the problem with the Jets offense, which ranks 28th in the NFL (283.3 yards per game). Opponents are able to commit to stopping the run and Pennington isn't making them pay by stretching the field with deep balls despite having a pair of game-breaking receivers in Laveranues Coles and Jerricho Cotchery. "I'm going deep, it's just when I'm going deep, I'm clearing out (for short underneath passes),'' said Coles. Against the Bills, Cotchery caught eight passes for 106 yards, including two 28-yard receptions on which he did a lot of the work on his own with yards after the catch. He had receptions for 50 and 44 yards against the Ravens but the strong-armed Kellen Clemens was the quarterback. This season, Cotchery has 26 receptions for 382 yards (14.7-yard average) and no touchdowns. Coles had eight catches for 65 yards and a touchdown against the Bills. He has 24 receptions for 211 yards (a paltry 8.8-yard average) and four touchdowns this season. His longest catch was for 24 yards and that came against the Ravens with Clemens again at quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 THe Patriots won their first SB dinking and dunking down the field. The difference was that they could go deep when necessary and that made the short passes more effective. They had no running game to speak of either, the short passes were their running game and it worked. A couple of deep attempts in the first couple of series against the Giants would at the very least, keep them honest. The Jets don't even make the effort to throw a long pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Against the Bills, Cotchery caught eight passes for 106 yards, including two 28-yard receptions on which he did a lot of the work on his own with yards after the catch. He had receptions for 50 and 44 yards against the Ravens but the strong-armed Kellen Clemens was the quarterback. This is irresponsible journalism. He mentions Cotch's catches against the Ravens and fails to mention that those catches were mostly Cotchery doing it after the catch. It's ok for the WR's to have YAC when the pass is coming from Clemens but not when they're coming from Chad. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, I have an idea. Let's put the Jets in an obvious passing situation...say, 3rd and 8. If the defense puts 8 guys in the box, call a time out. Put in Clemens and see what type of defensive front they show then...if they switch up the defense to respect the deep ball, I think Mangini should get the message... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, I have an idea. Let's put the Jets in an obvious passing situation...say, 3rd and 8. If the defense puts 8 guys in the box, call a time out. Put in Clemens and see what type of defensive front they show then...if they switch up the defense to respect the deep ball, I think Mangini should get the message... lol What - you don't think they'd be expecting an automatic draw play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 lol What - you don't think they'd be expecting an automatic draw play? Maybe a Brad Smith 3rd and 8 shotgun sneak? I'm still not over that 1st quarter play in Cleveland last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 "I'm going deep, it's just when I'm going deep, I'm clearing out (for short underneath passes),'' said Coles. This quote from Coles says it all. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojodogs Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 "I'm going deep, it's just when I'm going deep, I'm clearing out (for short underneath passes),'' said Coles. This quote from Coles says it all. Very sad. Sounds like coles is ready for the switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 This is irresponsible journalism. He mentions Cotch's catches against the Ravens and fails to mention that those catches were mostly Cotchery doing it after the catch. It's ok for the WR's to have YAC when the pass is coming from Clemens but not when they're coming from Chad. Unbelievable. The faster the ball gets to the receiver the less time the defense has to make up space, therefore the receiver will have more space to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Sounds like coles is ready for the switch Thats what I was hoping people would see from this thread. LC does not seem happy with the way the offense is running and Mr. Pennington right now. You can see it start to form up again already that there are teammates on offense who want the switch to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The faster the ball gets to the receiver the less time the defense has to make up space, therefore the receiver will have more space to run. That doesn't come into play here based on what was written. The writer clearly stated that Cotch was making most of his yards after the catch. Obviously the ball was getting there fast enough for Cotch to get his YAC so your point here isn't valid. Then the writer mentioned his long catches against the Ravens but failed to mention those were the result of a lot of YAC as well. Again, YAC when Chad is throwing it isn't ok, but it's perfectly fine when Clemens throws it apparently. Chad throws a short pass which the receiver turns into a long gain and it's all because of the receiver. When Kellen does it, it's all because of Kellen. It's a HUGE double standard around here. And before everyone comes at me and says I'm just a Chad-lover or some other stupid monicker, I'm fully prepared and willing to see Clemens in there because quite honestly I don't have any faith whatsoever that our defense can stop anyone. I also want to see a little more excitement on offense, so yes, I'm tiring of the dink-and-dunk offense as well. That doesn't mean I can't speak on a very apparent, and obvious, double-standard with regards to our QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 That doesn't come into play here based on what was written. The writer clearly stated that Cotch was making most of his yards after the catch. Obviously the ball was getting there fast enough for Cotch to get his YAC so your point here isn't valid. Then the writer mentioned his long catches against the Ravens but failed to mention those were the result of a lot of YAC as well. Again, YAC when Chad is throwing it isn't ok, but it's perfectly fine when Clemens throws it apparently. Chad throws a short pass which the receiver turns into a long gain and it's all because of the receiver. When Kellen does it, it's all because of Kellen. It's a HUGE double standard around here. And before everyone comes at me and says I'm just a Chad-lover or some other stupid monicker, I'm fully prepared and willing to see Clemens in there because quite honestly I don't have any faith whatsoever that our defense can stop anyone. I also want to see a little more excitement on offense, so yes, I'm tiring of the dink-and-dunk offense as well. That doesn't mean I can't speak on a very apparent, and obvious, double-standard with regards to our QB's. Defenses have adjusted to what the Jets are doing. They have virtually eliminated the swing pass to Leon and the funky stuff to Brad Smith. The running game is not working. Its down to short passes to Coles and Cotch. So, IMO, the Jets have run their offensive course with Chad. There is nowhere to expand the offensive possiblities with Chad at the helm. The Jets, as presently comprised, do not have an effective offense. What to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistalava Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Do you think the fact that we averaged <10 yards per completion against the Bills, with at least half of that being YAC, might have something to do with the problem? I thought the term "four yards and a cloud of dust" applied to running the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Defenses have adjusted to what the Jets are doing. They have virtually eliminated the swing pass to Leon and the funky stuff to Brad Smith. The running game is not working. Its down to short passes to Coles and Cotch. So, IMO, the Jets have run their offensive course with Chad. There is nowhere to expand the offensive possiblities with Chad at the helm. The Jets, as presently comprised, do not have an effective offense. What to do? So how do you explain the double-standard with regard to the receivers YAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 So how do you explain the double-standard with regard to the receivers YAC? Well, where those balls caught at the same distance? I don't know if they were so I'd have to go by what you tell me. There's a difference between catching a 5 yard pass and breaking it for 30, and catching a 15 yard pass and breaking it for 50, even if you got more YAC on the second reception. Catching in stride is also another difference, and that much I am sure Clemens does better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 heres the entire article: Jets offense afraid of the deep end Lack of long throws stifling drives HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Thomas Jones was acquired last March to be the answer to the Jets' running game woes and put the play-action back into quarterback Chad Pennington's repertoire. And after a breakout game last week against the Dolphins -- 110 yards rushing on 25 carries -- the Jets felt they had the perfect scenario as they prepared for the Bills. Buffalo's defense was crippled by injuries, with four starters out. The unit ranked last in the NFL in run defense, yielding 177.3 yards per game. The Bills had no Pro Bowl run-stuffer in the middle of their defense. Inexplicably, the Jets, who didn't even activate 240-pound fullback Darian Barnes, abandoned the run in the second half and Jones finished with a mere 35 yards on 12 carries in a demoralizing 17-14 loss in Buffalo on Sunday. After four games, Jones has only 254 yards rushing -- tied for 19th in the NFL -- and no touchdowns on 75 carries. He has a pedestrian 3.4-yard average. "They (the Bills) did a lot of different things with their defense,'' Jones said yesterday. "We had to make some adjustments. They bring a lot of guys in terms of penetrating the gaps and have a lot of guys, safeties and cornerbacks, that made a difference.'' If the Bills committed all those players to stop the run, why couldn't the Jets beat them with the pass? Pennington hit a career-high 32 of 39 passes -- including 15 straight at one point -- for 290 yards, one touchdown and two interceptions, but nearly all of his completions were of the dink-and-dunk variety and didn't really hurt Buffalo. Therein lies the problem with the Jets offense, which ranks 28th in the NFL (283.3 yards per game). Opponents are able to commit to stopping the run and Pennington isn't making them pay by stretching the field with deep balls despite having a pair of game-breaking receivers in Laveranues Coles and Jerricho Cotchery. "I'm going deep, it's just when I'm going deep, I'm clearing out (for short underneath passes),'' said Coles. Against the Bills, Cotchery caught eight passes for 106 yards, including two 28-yard receptions on which he did a lot of the work on his own with yards after the catch. He had receptions for 50 and 44 yards against the Ravens but the strong-armed Kellen Clemens was the quarterback. This season, Cotchery has 26 receptions for 382 yards (14.7-yard average) and no touchdowns. Coles had eight catches for 65 yards and a touchdown against the Bills. He has 24 receptions for 211 yards (a paltry 8.8-yard average) and four touchdowns this season. His longest catch was for 24 yards and that came against the Ravens with Clemens again at quarterback. Running back Leon Washington had a career-high eight catches for 38 yards against the Bills. Wide receiver Brad Smith did have a 26-yarder on a deep out pattern, perhaps the best thrown ball of the game by Pennington. The fact is, the Jets offense has become as predictable as rush-hour traffic with teams apparently having caught up to offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's dizzying array of pre-snap shifts and motion and different personnel packages. If Pennington can't get the ball downfield, opponents figure they'll just play a soft zone and keep everything in front of them. The Jets certainly didn't help themselves by committing nine penalties against the Bills. "I think there's been some opportunities to ... there's been some plays called where you'd like to stretch the field, but you have to ... it's like anything else, you don't want to force it,'' said coach Eric Mangini. "You can take shots for the sake of taking shots, but sometimes that can be counterproductive if you're really throwing it in a place where they have strong coverage.'' Often, however, just showing a team you'll take a shot deep is enough to make your point and loosen up the defense. "We have the ability to stretch the field and I think teams are aware of that,'' Cotchery said. "Each week, we go in and secondaries are playing deep and they're not letting us get behind them.'' Opponents, though, shouldn't be able to have it both ways against the Jets. In theory, if they're going to play a deep zone, the Jets should be able to run the ball. If they stack the box to stop the run, the Jets should be able to pass. "We tried to go off what they (the Bills) gave us,'' Cotchery said. "We did a good job but we were inconsistent at times. If you're inconsistent in the NFL, you end up with losses and days like this where you're trying to explain with happened." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 So how do you explain the double-standard with regard to the receivers YAC? I dont think there is a double standard. Coles gets virtually no YAC (8.8 receiving yards) and Cotch is fantastic at it. My point is axiomatic, i think: if you get the ball accurately into the receivers hands with some velocity the defender has less time to get to the receiver. Seriously, if you are watching the games you have to see that the ball barely gets to the open receiver before the defender gets there. sometimes a receiver gets YAC because the defender misses an INT attempt rather than go for the hit (this is a great thing about Chad - the ball is so softly throw that defenders often try for INTs when the better play is to merely let the receiver have the 4/5 yards and settle for the tackle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Coles can run after the catch. Hes just been blanketed by everyone cause hes our #1 which has allowed Cotch to get free. We need that deep threat. Our receivers are fast enough to get behind the D. we need to send a Federal Express package air delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, where those balls caught at the same distance? I don't know if they were so I'd have to go by what you tell me. There's a difference between catching a 5 yard pass and breaking it for 30, and catching a 15 yard pass and breaking it for 50, even if you got more YAC on the second reception. Catching in stride is also another difference, and that much I am sure Clemens does better. Based on what? His one quarter of good football? This is what I'm talking about. There is no difference. Either the receiver is getting YAC or he's not. The QB's are either allowing the receiver to catch the ball in a position to get YAC or they're not. Both have been successful at doing it because that's how the offense is set up. Last year, people were all over Chad saying the WR's were doing all of the work by getting so many YAC. This year, they get YAC after getting a pass from Clemens and suddenly it's because of the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The JETS best downfield threat is Jmac... Coles and Cotch are 5-15 yard route runners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The JETS best downfield threat is Jmac... Coles and Cotch are 5-15 yard route runners... Cole was a possesion reciever in Washington and he is here too, Cotchery also doesnt have the size or speed to be considered a deep threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The JETS best downfield threat is Jmac... Well then we're screwed because he can't catch a cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangenious420 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Cole was a possesion reciever in Washington and he is here too, Cotchery also doesnt have the size or speed to be considered a deep threat. So you agree with ecurb? Either way J Mac being our deep threat is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The JETS best downfield threat is Jmac... Coles and Cotch are 5-15 yard route runners... Coles and Cotchery may be possession receivers for the most part, but they can actually catch and are outstanding at running after the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Coles and Cotchery may be possession receivers for the most part, but they can actually catch and are outstanding at running after the catch. Im aware, I love them.. But they are not tall speedy downfield WR's... Jmac is that guy on this team... whether its Chad or Kellen there wont be many bombs being thrown.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Im aware, I love them.. But they are not tall speedy downfield WR's... Jmac is that guy on this team... whether its Chad or Kellen there wont be many bombs being thrown.. They are both speedy. And you don't need to be tall to be a downfield threat, ask Joey Galloway and Santana Moss, I believe both are shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfan4hire Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Cole was a possesion reciever in Washington and he is here too, Cotchery also doesnt have the size or speed to be considered a deep threat. dont buy this at all. Both these guys have the speed to stretch defenses, they just happen to be tough possesion guys too. When is size important in being considered a deep threat? Lee Evans, Steve Smith, Santanna Moss, Deion Branch...none of these guys have a lot of size but they can all get behind defenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Im aware, I love them.. But they are not tall speedy downfield WR's... Jmac is that guy on this team... whether its Chad or Kellen there wont be many bombs being thrown.. I agree, Cotch is rapidly turning into one of my favourite players but he isnt a burner type player, nor is Coles. Thats just not their strength. They actually do suit Chads throwing as well, Santana Moss did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 They are both speedy. And you don't need to be tall to be a downfield threat, ask Joey Galloway and Santana Moss, I believe both are shorter. They are not as fast as Santana Moss.. .sorry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 dont buy this at all. Both these guys have the speed to stretch defenses, they just happen to be tough possesion guys too. When is size important in being considered a deep threat? Lee Evans, Steve Smith, Santanna Moss, Deion Branch...none of these guys have a lot of size but they can all get behind defenses All of the above recievers you listed are a lot lot faster than Cotchery. As for Coles, he should be a better deep threat as he does have good speed, he just never has been. Im not quite sure as to why but there must be factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 They are not as fast as Santana Moss.. .sorry.. They're fast enough that they have to stop running to catch Pennington's passes no matter how deep the route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 They are not as fast as Santana Moss.. .sorry.. or Galloway!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaged89 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I agree, Cotch is rapidly turning into one of my favourite players but he isnt a burner type player, nor is Coles. Thats just not their strength. They actually do suit Chads throwing as well, Santana Moss did not. Coles is a burner. And Cotchery is going to surprise you when Chad eventually get benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 There is no difference. Either the receiver is getting YAC or he's not. The QB's are either allowing the receiver to catch the ball in a position to get YAC or they're not. Both have been successful at doing it because that's how the offense is set up. Last year, people were all over Chad saying the WR's were doing all of the work by getting so many YAC. This year, they get YAC after getting a pass from Clemens and suddenly it's because of the QB. Solid point, KS. Even going back to the pre-season, when Clemens hit McC, who then ran it what--30 yards in for the score, no one cared that most of the play consisted of YAC. It's a double standard that people are using to justify their anger at Mangini's decision to start chad. It doesnt mean that Clemens couldnt go in and do a great job. it is just that many people dont care to see pennington playing- they want Clemens now, whether mangini agrees or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyjet69 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 That doesn't come into play here based on what was written. The writer clearly stated that Cotch was making most of his yards after the catch. Obviously the ball was getting there fast enough for Cotch to get his YAC so your point here isn't valid. Then the writer mentioned his long catches against the Ravens but failed to mention those were the result of a lot of YAC as well. Again, YAC when Chad is throwing it isn't ok, but it's perfectly fine when Clemens throws it apparently. Chad throws a short pass which the receiver turns into a long gain and it's all because of the receiver. When Kellen does it, it's all because of Kellen. It's a HUGE double standard around here. And before everyone comes at me and says I'm just a Chad-lover or some other stupid monicker, I'm fully prepared and willing to see Clemens in there because quite honestly I don't have any faith whatsoever that our defense can stop anyone. I also want to see a little more excitement on offense, so yes, I'm tiring of the dink-and-dunk offense as well. That doesn't mean I can't speak on a very apparent, and obvious, double-standard with regards to our QB's. Ditto on the 3rd paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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