"Heart ,Toughness, and Brains"

[RichardSeymour]

Its about heart and toughness and brains. Somewhere along the line, the Jets might just fit the bill.

TS, you gotta be kidding me. Love your writing as always but....

You should have realized right there that if the best argument you could muster was that the Jets "somewhere along the line.... might fit the bill." that you're taking a weaksauce position.

I mean sweet jesus man, I expect that kind of thing out from a newb or something but you oughta know better....

Heart? You guys are always slamming Curtis Martin for being a stat compiler rather than a tough yards guy. Arguably your best player on defense is John Labiaham. Your core team, on offense and defense, is the same one that got spanked two years ago in Oakland like a bad child. Mawae's got enough heart to have a flying elvis on his helmet, but he can't singlehandedly will the team to victory.

Believe me, watch the Pats SB DVDs sometime. There's a scene where Mawae is clearly frustrated with his team and he's yelling... "That's how you're supposed to play. They get it." Unfortunately for him his own team doesn't.

Toughness? Do I have to bring up Johnny Labe again? No? How about Chadwick Pennington? I'm predicting the guy's gonna start every game this year, but if you want toughness he's still pretty far down that QB list. Martin's tough. Mawae's tough (and if you sense a grudging respect for Mawae, well it's there). Ellis could play on my team though he ain't a nailchewer. Vilma's plenty tough for a guy who weighs as much as I do after a big meal.

Sideline Santana's gone. Still, the Jets are not exactly a paragon of smashmouth or toughness, despite having a great front 7 on defense. At best, they're middling.

Brains? BRAINS?

You've been snorting too much of Herm's special BBQ sauce, TS, if you think that "maybe someday that'll be the Jets" is gonna work when your coach is drawing up plays with crayolas and construction paper. Jesus, if you did make the superbowl I'd expect Herm to make the Eagles 5 minute long 2 minute drill look like one of Joe Montana's finest.

Dirty little secret---- I like the Jets this year. Outside of the division their defense seems to be phenomenally underappreciated, and on paper it should be even better (the difficulty of being better when it was as good as it was last year being the only problem) as the key guys are in their primes or on the upside (Vilma, D-Rob), and while the back 4 is a quartet of question marks, that's no different than last year and Hendu muddled through. I think Pennington HAS to have a healthy year sooner or later, and if he's still playing soft toss with a beanbag, that's how he looked throwing the ball last year anyway, so his arm strength has nowhere to go but up. CuMar is old and has to fall apart one of these years, but I can't blame anyone for not betting against him and while him going down or rapidly declining would be catastrophic unless Blaylock turned out to be a real eye opener, if you have to depend on one RB to stay healthy and at least adequate, CuMar at any age is a good pick.

I respect the hell out of Coles, in 2002 he reminded me a LOT of Troy Brown circa 2001/early 2002, and believe me, that's a HUGE, HUGE compliment in my book. The injury thing is a big question mark in my head, but if healthy....

There have been some hits at offense, and your offensive line consists of some very good players who are almost eligible for social security, some very iffy players you just have to hope on, and a couple of blocks of swiss cheese Bradway has stockpiled for emergencies. LaMont Jordan is gone, and while Blaylock looks like he can be pretty good on an 8 touch per game basis, you'll probably be hurting if he's needed more than that.

Still, I like your team. I would not be shocked AT ALL if they made the AFCC, and IMO they are the 3rd most likely team to do so (after Indy and NE.... would be after Pitt too except I think Pitt overachieved last year). I could even see them making the SB if their old guys on offense stay healthy and productive, Chad has the year everyone's been waiting for, and Hendu keeps that defense level or even improves it. Those aren't small things to ask, but they aren't enormous either.

The problems are twofold.

1) You used a really poor argument.... Heart, Toughness, and Brains are three reasons to think the Jets will be one and done in the playoffs, or On The Clock in December.

2) You're dead wrong about the Patriots... Sigh. One thing being a Sox fan and watching the Yankees the last ten years taught me---- great teams (and the '96-'99 Skanks were legitimately a great team) don't die easy. You shoot them, and they get back up and punch you in the face. You stab them and they reel off a win streak and kick you in the groin. You drown them and they crawl their way back to another championship game. That great Skanks team took a looong time to stop twitching ('00-'04 unless they dramatically improve this year). In the process they managed to deny a great Red Sox team a WS berth, took the Dbacks to 7, and essentially remained the scourge and terror of the league for years after they ceased to be great.

Don't sleep on the Patriots. Don't try to talk yourself into anything. The old boxing cliche does apply (albeit, it's truer in boxing where judges decide close matches): You have to knock out the champ to beat him.

I'm a heck of a lot more confident in my corner going 12 rounds or 4 quarters than you should be in yours getting that knockout.

The lesson from last year isn't that "talent doesn't win superbowls because the Pats won handily with one hand tied behind their back in the playoffs", it's "my god, this Patriots team is an all time great team that will destroy its enemies and hear the lamentations of their women. At 75% they're a better team than anyone else at 110%."

Everything comes to an end. It could even be an anti-climactic collapse for the Pats this season, who knows.

Don't bet on it though, and don't talk about the division being wide open or ripe for the picking. Don't talk about any of that when the last time your team beat mine, people were still comparing YOUR quarterback to Joe Montana with a straight face.

Just wanted to clear that up, TS. With respect as always, Bro.

[RichardSeymour]

Its about heart and toughness and brains. Somewhere along the line, the Jets might just fit the bill.

TS, you gotta be kidding me. Love your writing as always but....

You should have realized right there that if the best argument you could muster was that the Jets "somewhere along the line.... might fit the bill." that you're taking a weaksauce position.

I mean sweet jesus man, I expect that kind of thing out from a newb or something but you oughta know better....

Heart? You guys are always slamming Curtis Martin for being a stat compiler rather than a tough yards guy. Arguably your best player on defense is John Labiaham. Your core team, on offense and defense, is the same one that got spanked two years ago in Oakland like a bad child. Mawae's got enough heart to have a flying elvis on his helmet, but he can't singlehandedly will the team to victory.

Believe me, watch the Pats SB DVDs sometime. There's a scene where Mawae is clearly frustrated with his team and he's yelling... "That's how you're supposed to play. They get it." Unfortunately for him his own team doesn't.

Toughness? Do I have to bring up Johnny Labe again? No? How about Chadwick Pennington? I'm predicting the guy's gonna start every game this year, but if you want toughness he's still pretty far down that QB list. Martin's tough. Mawae's tough (and if you sense a grudging respect for Mawae, well it's there). Ellis could play on my team though he ain't a nailchewer. Vilma's plenty tough for a guy who weighs as much as I do after a big meal.

Sideline Santana's gone. Still, the Jets are not exactly a paragon of smashmouth or toughness, despite having a great front 7 on defense. At best, they're middling.

Brains? BRAINS?

You've been snorting too much of Herm's special BBQ sauce, TS, if you think that "maybe someday that'll be the Jets" is gonna work when your coach is drawing up plays with crayolas and construction paper. Jesus, if you did make the superbowl I'd expect Herm to make the Eagles 5 minute long 2 minute drill look like one of Joe Montana's finest.

Dirty little secret---- I like the Jets this year. Outside of the division their defense seems to be phenomenally underappreciated, and on paper it should be even better (the difficulty of being better when it was as good as it was last year being the only problem) as the key guys are in their primes or on the upside (Vilma, D-Rob), and while the back 4 is a quartet of question marks, that's no different than last year and Hendu muddled through. I think Pennington HAS to have a healthy year sooner or later, and if he's still playing soft toss with a beanbag, that's how he looked throwing the ball last year anyway, so his arm strength has nowhere to go but up. CuMar is old and has to fall apart one of these years, but I can't blame anyone for not betting against him and while him going down or rapidly declining would be catastrophic unless Blaylock turned out to be a real eye opener, if you have to depend on one RB to stay healthy and at least adequate, CuMar at any age is a good pick.

I respect the hell out of Coles, in 2002 he reminded me a LOT of Troy Brown circa 2001/early 2002, and believe me, that's a HUGE, HUGE compliment in my book. The injury thing is a big question mark in my head, but if healthy....

There have been some hits at offense, and your offensive line consists of some very good players who are almost eligible for social security, some very iffy players you just have to hope on, and a couple of blocks of swiss cheese Bradway has stockpiled for emergencies. LaMont Jordan is gone, and while Blaylock looks like he can be pretty good on an 8 touch per game basis, you'll probably be hurting if he's needed more than that.

Still, I like your team. I would not be shocked AT ALL if they made the AFCC, and IMO they are the 3rd most likely team to do so (after Indy and NE.... would be after Pitt too except I think Pitt overachieved last year). I could even see them making the SB if their old guys on offense stay healthy and productive, Chad has the year everyone's been waiting for, and Hendu keeps that defense level or even improves it. Those aren't small things to ask, but they aren't enormous either.

The problems are twofold.

1) You used a really poor argument.... Heart, Toughness, and Brains are three reasons to think the Jets will be one and done in the playoffs, or On The Clock in December.

2) You're dead wrong about the Patriots... Sigh. One thing being a Sox fan and watching the Yankees the last ten years taught me---- great teams (and the '96-'99 Skanks were legitimately a great team) don't die easy. You shoot them, and they get back up and punch you in the face. You stab them and they reel off a win streak and kick you in the groin. You drown them and they crawl their way back to another championship game. That great Skanks team took a looong time to stop twitching ('00-'04 unless they dramatically improve this year). In the process they managed to deny a great Red Sox team a WS berth, took the Dbacks to 7, and essentially remained the scourge and terror of the league for years after they ceased to be great.

Don't sleep on the Patriots. Don't try to talk yourself into anything. The old boxing cliche does apply (albeit, it's truer in boxing where judges decide close matches): You have to knock out the champ to beat him.

I'm a heck of a lot more confident in my corner going 12 rounds or 4 quarters than you should be in yours getting that knockout.

The lesson from last year isn't that "talent doesn't win superbowls because the Pats won handily with one hand tied behind their back in the playoffs", it's "my god, this Patriots team is an all time great team that will destroy its enemies and hear the lamentations of their women. At 75% they're a better team than anyone else at 110%."

Everything comes to an end. It could even be an anti-climactic collapse for the Pats this season, who knows.

Don't bet on it though, and don't talk about the division being wide open or ripe for the picking. Don't talk about any of that when the last time your team beat mine, people were still comparing YOUR quarterback to Joe Montana with a straight face.

Just wanted to clear that up, TS. With respect as always, Bro.

[SoFlaJets]

I have chosen to ignore these negative vibes-Jets fans....do the same

[SoFlaJets]

I have chosen to ignore these negative vibes-Jets fans....do the same

[RichardSeymour]

I have chosen to ignore these negative vibes-Jets fans....do the same

Look closely and you'll see I say that I'd take the Jets as 3rd most likely in the conference to make the championship game, despite their putrescent offense which on paper should be worse and not better. That's a positive vibe.

Why you got to be hitting me with these negative waves, SoFlaJets? The bridge will be there if you think positive thoughts...

[RichardSeymour]

I have chosen to ignore these negative vibes-Jets fans....do the same

Look closely and you'll see I say that I'd take the Jets as 3rd most likely in the conference to make the championship game, despite their putrescent offense which on paper should be worse and not better. That's a positive vibe.

Why you got to be hitting me with these negative waves, SoFlaJets? The bridge will be there if you think positive thoughts...

[TaborJet]

Look closely and you'll see I say that I'd take the Jets as 3rd most likely in the conference to make the championship game, despite their putrescent offense which on paper should be worse and not better. That's a positive vibe.

Why you got to be hitting me with these negative waves, SoFlaJets? The bridge will be there if you think positive thoughts...

Any time a Pats fan gives the Jets some props, it must be acknowledged. Those were kind words, Seymour. And in return: The Pats are still the team to beat.

[TaborJet]

Look closely and you'll see I say that I'd take the Jets as 3rd most likely in the conference to make the championship game, despite their putrescent offense which on paper should be worse and not better. That's a positive vibe.

Why you got to be hitting me with these negative waves, SoFlaJets? The bridge will be there if you think positive thoughts...

Any time a Pats fan gives the Jets some props, it must be acknowledged. Those were kind words, Seymour. And in return: The Pats are still the team to beat.

[SoFlaJets]

you know what it is Seymour-I still am having some difficulty with all the Pats fans on this and the Insiders boards-I understand the reasoning(your team's boards supposedly suck-can't voch for that personally-never been)but when I look at the post counts it doesn't compute-you guys have twice the number of posts that I do,AND I'M A LIFELONG JETS FAN and I've been here just as long.The bridge thing I don't get-that one went right under my head...I have no problem personally with anyone here or there but the negative spewing gets old to me.

[SoFlaJets]

you know what it is Seymour-I still am having some difficulty with all the Pats fans on this and the Insiders boards-I understand the reasoning(your team's boards supposedly suck-can't voch for that personally-never been)but when I look at the post counts it doesn't compute-you guys have twice the number of posts that I do,AND I'M A LIFELONG JETS FAN and I've been here just as long.The bridge thing I don't get-that one went right under my head...I have no problem personally with anyone here or there but the negative spewing gets old to me.

[RichardSeymour]

Any time a Pats fan gives the Jets some props, it must be acknowledged. Those were kind words, Seymour. And in return: The Pats are still the team to beat.

They weren't really intended to be kind (hence the numerous jabs and pokes), but while I was incredulous at Tom's conclusion that Heart, Toughness, and Brains are the keys and therefore the Jets make the SB, I do think pretty highly of the Jets team I saw on the field last season relative to the other AFC teams not coached by the GOAT...

[RichardSeymour]

Any time a Pats fan gives the Jets some props, it must be acknowledged. Those were kind words, Seymour. And in return: The Pats are still the team to beat.

They weren't really intended to be kind (hence the numerous jabs and pokes), but while I was incredulous at Tom's conclusion that Heart, Toughness, and Brains are the keys and therefore the Jets make the SB, I do think pretty highly of the Jets team I saw on the field last season relative to the other AFC teams not coached by the GOAT...

[PatsFanTX]

"Oh yes. We have Herman back. And Dick Curl. You can almost hear the press conferences now, where Herm explains that time is nothing more than a metaphysical construct, immaterial in and of itself, and that, really, what is a second?"

That is absolutely a classic line!

Great article TS, very well done.

[PatsFanTX]

"Oh yes. We have Herman back. And Dick Curl. You can almost hear the press conferences now, where Herm explains that time is nothing more than a metaphysical construct, immaterial in and of itself, and that, really, what is a second?"

That is absolutely a classic line!

Great article TS, very well done.

[TomShane]

Thanks fellas for the compliments, and RS, fair criticism as usual. My point, I suppose, in that article is that the Jets don't have to be the most talented team in the league to win--you guys weren't, the Spurs weren't, the Sox weren't--but that if the Jets can pull it together enough this year, and Herm does seem to have their ear, it could be a special season for the Jets. All you read in the off-season are position-by-position analyses of teams, saying that the Jets have no RT, or the Pats have no MLB, or the Chiefs lack safeties. My point is that you could go down the list of every team to have won a championship, particularly in the last deacde, and point out major holes that team had going into the season, that ultimately didn't cost them as the whole was better than any one part.

[TomShane]

Thanks fellas for the compliments, and RS, fair criticism as usual. My point, I suppose, in that article is that the Jets don't have to be the most talented team in the league to win--you guys weren't, the Spurs weren't, the Sox weren't--but that if the Jets can pull it together enough this year, and Herm does seem to have their ear, it could be a special season for the Jets. All you read in the off-season are position-by-position analyses of teams, saying that the Jets have no RT, or the Pats have no MLB, or the Chiefs lack safeties. My point is that you could go down the list of every team to have won a championship, particularly in the last deacde, and point out major holes that team had going into the season, that ultimately didn't cost them as the whole was better than any one part.

[bitonti]

RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10.

[bitonti]

RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10.

[RichardSeymour]

RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10.

Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured.

[RichardSeymour]

RS you talk a mighty big game for a guy who's namesake won't play a down for the Patriots until week 10.

Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured.

[TomShane]

Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured.

I have to agree. I think Seymour is more likely to be on the field for Week One at this point than Chad Pennington is.

[TomShane]

Bit, I'll bet you a bottle of Glenfidditch that Seymour plays in week 1 or 2, unless he's injured.

I have to agree. I think Seymour is more likely to be on the field for Week One at this point than Chad Pennington is.

[PatsFanTX]

I have to agree. I think Seymour is more likely to be on the field for Week One at this point than Chad Pennington is.

And Abe.

[PatsFanTX]

I have to agree. I think Seymour is more likely to be on the field for Week One at this point than Chad Pennington is.

And Abe.

[Barton]

How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!?

I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but......

Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins.

[Barton]

How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!?

I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but......

Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins.

[TomShane]

And Abe.

Business as usual, then.

[TomShane]

And Abe.

Business as usual, then.

[LionelRichie]

How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!?

I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but......

Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins.

and don't forget abe is off the sauce now.

[LionelRichie]

How is "the core" of this team like the 2002 team which got slapped around by Oakland?!?

I know you're gonna say the QB and starting RB are the same but......

Our entire defense aside from J.Abe and Ellis is completely different and far better. Not to mention a better left guard and a better WR corps since adding McCareins.

and don't forget abe is off the sauce now.

[TomShane]

and don't forget abe is off the sauce now.

And in the library! If anyone wants to join his book club, here's a free preview:

January: Contract Law and You: Ten Things You Should Know Before You Take the Field on a One-Year Deal: by Juan Gonzalez with a foreward by Kendrell Bell

February: 1001 Pre-Game Drink Recipes by Kevin Millar and Wade Boggs

March: There Is No 'I' in Team, But There Ain't No Money in it Neither by Derrick Coleman, with a foreward by Terrell Owens

April: Vaginitis: Not Just a Woman Problem, a People Problem by Allan Houston, with a foreward by Santana Moss

May: Finding Me by Rosie O'Donnell

June: The Wilkins Way: Dominique Wilkins' Guide to Winning Championships by Dominique Wilkins, foreward by Dan Marino

July: Big Game Players: How to Answer the Bell in the Post-Season by Scottie Pippen and Peyton Manning

August: Drug Free Greatness: How to Keep a Level Head in the NFL by Mark Gastineau

September: Owning the Owner: How to Achieve Financial Success in Half the Time by Blair Thomas and Leonard Russell

October: Playing Hurt: How to Fight Through Blinding Pain and Prosper by Dirk Nowitzki and Petr Nedved

November: The Seven Habits of Highly Efective Injured People by Brian Bosworth

December: The Woman's Guide to Watching Football: Sideline Edition by Anna Kournikova

[TomShane]

and don't forget abe is off the sauce now.

And in the library! If anyone wants to join his book club, here's a free preview:

January: Contract Law and You: Ten Things You Should Know Before You Take the Field on a One-Year Deal: by Juan Gonzalez with a foreward by Kendrell Bell

February: 1001 Pre-Game Drink Recipes by Kevin Millar and Wade Boggs

March: There Is No 'I' in Team, But There Ain't No Money in it Neither by Derrick Coleman, with a foreward by Terrell Owens

April: Vaginitis: Not Just a Woman Problem, a People Problem by Allan Houston, with a foreward by Santana Moss

May: Finding Me by Rosie O'Donnell

June: The Wilkins Way: Dominique Wilkins' Guide to Winning Championships by Dominique Wilkins, foreward by Dan Marino

July: Big Game Players: How to Answer the Bell in the Post-Season by Scottie Pippen and Peyton Manning

August: Drug Free Greatness: How to Keep a Level Head in the NFL by Mark Gastineau

September: Owning the Owner: How to Achieve Financial Success in Half the Time by Blair Thomas and Leonard Russell

October: Playing Hurt: How to Fight Through Blinding Pain and Prosper by Dirk Nowitzki and Petr Nedved

November: The Seven Habits of Highly Efective Injured People by Brian Bosworth

December: The Woman's Guide to Watching Football: Sideline Edition by Anna Kournikova

[MasonJet]

My only question is why JetNation allowed such a whiny, defeatist article to be put on the front page. Most Jets fans are optimistic and with good reason. I guess the fact that there's no way Abraham could have played and if he did, he would have flat out sucked, has no effect on TS. We nearly made it to the AFC Championship Game next year, and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. Our defense was great last year and now they have a year of playing with each other. Vilma and Coleman have more experience now as well. Is Adrian Jones a question mark? Sure. But could he do well? Absolutely. Come on JetNation, I think we can do better than that defeatist crap.

[MasonJet]

My only question is why JetNation allowed such a whiny, defeatist article to be put on the front page. Most Jets fans are optimistic and with good reason. I guess the fact that there's no way Abraham could have played and if he did, he would have flat out sucked, has no effect on TS. We nearly made it to the AFC Championship Game next year, and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. Our defense was great last year and now they have a year of playing with each other. Vilma and Coleman have more experience now as well. Is Adrian Jones a question mark? Sure. But could he do well? Absolutely. Come on JetNation, I think we can do better than that defeatist crap.

[TomShane]

My only question is why JetNation allowed such a whiny, defeatist article to be put on the front page. Most Jets fans are optimistic and with good reason. I guess the fact that there's no way Abraham could have played and if he did, he would have flat out sucked, has no effect on TS. We nearly made it to the AFC Championship Game next year, and now we have a better no.1 WR, a TE who can actually catch, and an OC who can actually coach. Our defense was great last year and now they have a year of playing with each other. Vilma and Coleman have more experience now as well. Is Adrian Jones a question mark? Sure. But could he do well? Absolutely. Come on JetNation, I think we can do better than that defeatist crap.

We predict the Super Bowl for the Jets, J-Mac. Keep reading.